Moyes So Far!

[Empire]

Just wondering, do people on here really think he'll get sacked? He should go, but it won't surprise me if gets another year.

The board will conduct a thorough review on his performance, in doing so I think they will find it difficult to justify keeping him on when other managers exist that could accomplish the objectives for much cheaper that Moyes who has spoken of the need for world class talent.

I cannot see a situation where they wouldn't explore their options, at the very least I think Louis van Gaal's representatives would have contacted United personally and surely Woodward would have had a meeting set up where Mr. van Gaal and his representatives signed a non-disclosure agreement. Louis' plans to achieve the objectives would require considerably less financing and so this will get them thinking.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got another year if we finished 5th, especially with 72 points. I would be surprised if he got another year after finishing 6th! I would be shocked if he got another year after finishing 7th because their is failure and then complete and total failure.

They will also understand what the players think of him and if it's not positive then they are faced with a situation of either get rid of the manager or the players however the former is far more economical.

The big question is his replacement. If Jurgen Klopp is even slightly available I can see Woodward giving him a tremendous offer as he is an admirer referring to him as a 'genius'. As for Louis van Gaal, he is risky because of how out spoken he is, also he has had his failures in the past but also he has had great success therefore he would probably be a better choice than Moyes in their eyes.

Even though it is plausible to argue a manager like Pochettino could get far more out of our squad than Moyes, the Glazers might not be willing to take a risk on another unproven manager. It's a difficult choice but in my opinion it is far more risky giving Moyes another year, when they could sign Pochettino on a one year contract with a mandatory extension if he achieves top four.

In conclusion, they have options and due to the failure of this season they would be foolish not to explore these. And once explored I don't think giving Moyes another year is the best option therefore I do think he will leave in the summer.

Spurs must travel to stoke and west ham before playing Villa at home. I honestly think no Europa Football will be the end of him therefore should Spurs win all three I can't see him staying. That said, Arsenal could very well finish 5th and win the FA Cup thus giving United Europa despite a 7th place finish, if this happens he might just be the luckiest manager in world football, if he isn't already.

 

[Badunk]

I hope to God you're right. We're on the verge of a Liverpoolesque decline, and our decisions once this season ends will shape our outlook for the next five years. I hope the Glazers don't opt for a managed decline. People may say that's melodramatic, but no one thought we'd fall so badly within one season...

I've said all season that we've lacked confidence. We have a new manager after almost 3 decades of the old one, with everything at the club geared towards supporting him. Confidence is an amazing thing: it can make average players great and a lack of it can make great players average. The players lack the same confidence in the new manager as they had in the old one. This is natural. The old one was the greatest of all time. The supporters on here are displaying similar traits. All you read are apocalyptic predictions of how we're fecked for the next ten years and how we're gonna end up like Liverpool or Leeds. It really isn't that bad. But it is an example of how confidence can dissipate very quickly. Supporters who, for the last 20 seasons, would watch their team go 1 or 2 goals down and be totally confident of getting a result, are now doom and gloom once we go behind. One poor season has completely destroyed our belief as supporters, and I'm sure the same lack of belief is the reason why our fantastic players are shite this season.

Now, I don't know whether Moyes is the man to instill that belief. It's difficult to see beyond the inept displays, the shite tactics and unwanted records broken. I believe there may have only been 2 or 3 managers who could have hit the ground running after taking over from Fergie, and Moyes isn't one of them. He's a grinder. If he's to turn it around, he's gonna take longer than a Pep, a Mourinho or an Ancellotti. If we're still pish after 10 games next season, I think the plug will be pulled. But these cataclysmic prophesies really don't have any basis in reality. We'll never die.

 

[Empire]

Sorry to break this to you, but managers don't necessarily say exactly what they believe when talking to the press. To say Moyes himself believes he's doing a good job based on comments in the media is stupid, and most likely inaccurate. Of course he's not going to say "LOL, did you see that clueless substitution I made? How I kept Rooney on the pitch the entire game despite him being the worst player? HAHA, I'm fecking shit at this. It's good money though!"

I don't know, he seems pretty convinced we played well:


Compare this to Ferguson, who had just won the cup! From 2.18:


I think Moyes honestly thought we played well.

 

[Litch]

Nah, it's nothing of that sort. Manchester United is a huge organisation which in most ways has an extremely strong standing. The academy is great, the facilities are top notch, the squad is very very good, and the financial power is abundant. Getting rid of Moyes isn't going to have any far reaching affects other than breeding a lot of positivity around the club and among it's fans. Change is part of any business and we'd move on from the Moyes debacle very quickly, replace him and everything would function as it always does without any major panic and collapse.

Also, I don't think the people who were "associated" with his appointment are crucial to our future at all. If SAF and Sir Bobby were to not be involved, it's not a big deal. Business don't collapse when two very old men who aren't even very involved completely cut off. Besides, I have no idea why SAF or SBC would throw their toys out like children if "their man" was fired. They haven't adopted David Moyes FFS.

The way I see it is that it's simple. Get a man with a modern vision in who has the personality and ability to see it come to life, and let him impose his own ideas on the club properly.

I can only go of what history has already told me. There are people of influence at the club and SAF remains one of them. The new manager are going to need the support of theses people cause they will have some (not all) influence in the decision to appoint. The Glazers are not going to go out on a limb without the support of the board, and the last time I looked SAF and Sir Bobby were one of the two most high profiled members on it.

Its funny cause thats exactly what people do when their man is fired, they resign too. Not saying that wouldn't be a bad thing anyway.

 

[Sixpence]

Has he gone yet?

 

[Empire]

I've said all season that we've lacked confidence. We have a new manager after almost 3 decades of the old one, with everything at the club geared towards supporting him. Confidence is an amazing thing: it can make average players great and a lack of it can make great players average. The players lack the same confidence in the new manager as they had in the old one. This is natural. The old one was the greatest of all time. The supporters on here are displaying similar traits. All you read are apocalyptic predictions of how we're fecked for the next ten years and how we're gonna end up like Liverpool or Leeds. It really isn't that bad. But it is an example of how confidence can dissipate very quickly. Supporters who, for the last 20 seasons, would watch their team go 1 or 2 goals down and be totally confident of getting a result, are now doom and gloom once we go behind. One poor season has completely destroyed our belief as supporters, and I'm sure the same lack of belief is the reason why our fantastic players are shite this season.

Now, I don't know whether Moyes is the man to instill that belief. It's difficult to see beyond the inept displays, the shite tactics and unwanted records broken. I believe there may have only been 2 or 3 managers who could have hit the ground running after taking over from Fergie, and Moyes isn't one of them. He's a grinder. If he's to turn it around, he's gonna take longer than a Pep, a Mourinho or an Ancellotti. If we're still pish after 10 games next season, I think the plug will be pulled. But these cataclysmic prophesies really don't have any basis in reality. We'll never die.

According to Everton players Martinez had them believing from day one, Moyes didn't. You are right, confidence and belief are the problems and in life, whatever field it might be, confidence is a most critical element of elite performance.

That said, it doesn't take Pep, Mourinho or Ancelotti to come in and get the players believing, it simply takes an optimist. Martinez spoke of champions league football for Everton players from day one whereas Moyes didn't really touch upon this or at least that's the impression I get:

The two managers are totally different, in every way,' Baines told The Guardian. 'They both have things they are really good at but with the current manager, he's ultra-positive. He takes the positive from every single scenario.

'That's been the big thing for me: the difference in the style of play, committing to that and not feeling like we have to adapt to the opposition.

'The new manager has that confidence and belief in himself, in his own blueprint. And then in us.'

'He also spoke about the Champions League from the start. He didn't shy away from it. He came in straight away and set the bar high.

'We might have got away with a fairly ordinary season - the changeover with the new manager, a transitional season - but he didn't want to accept that.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-ahead-David-Moyes-return.html#ixzz2zWHn0x1e
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I think Moyes hasn't the charisma to inspire that belief, I also think Moyes is a realist. Martinez being the optimist he is probably has helped Everton. I think Moyes is a good manager but at the very highest level it's important to be an optimist.

I think Moyes would have kept Wigan up, being the realist he is, I do think Wigan would have had the defensive solidarity and this is vital. An optimistic approach for a club that is inferior to most in the league can back fire.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I can only go of what history has already told me. There are people of influence at the club and SAF remains one of them. The new manager are going to need the support of theses people cause they will have some (not all) influence in the decision to appoint. The Glazers are not going to go out on a limb without the support of the board, and the last time I looked SAF and Sir Bobby were one of the two most high profiled members on it.

The Glazers can choose to change the points of "influence" if they want. But more importantly, why would SAF and SBC behave like children if Moyes was sacked? They're mature adults and I'd expect them to behave that way.

 

[Empire]

I can only go of what history has already told me. There are people of influence at the club and SAF remains one of them. The new manager are going to need the support of theses people cause they will have some (not all) influence in the decision to appoint. The Glazers are not going to go out on a limb without the support of the board, and the last time I looked SAF and Sir Bobby were one of the two most high profiled members on it.

Its funny cause thats exactly what people do when their man is fired, they resign too. Not saying that wouldn't be a bad thing anyway.

Bob and Alex are not on the board. They are advisors regarding the football side of things however if after conducting a thorough review the board decide continuity with David is far too risky, they will seek other advisors since Alex and Bob got it so wrong last time around although I do think they will still consult Bob and Alex to get their opinion.

 

[Litch]

The board will conduct a thorough review on his performance, in doing so I think they will find it difficult to justify keeping him on when other managers exist that could accomplish the objectives for much cheaper that Moyes who has spoken of the need for world class talent.

I cannot see a situation where they wouldn't explore their options, at the very least I think Louis van Gaal's representatives would have contacted United personally and surely Woodward would have had a meeting set up where Mr. van Gaal and his representatives signed a non-disclosure agreement. Louis' plans to achieve the objectives would require considerably less financing and so this will get them thinking.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got another year if we finished 5th, especially with 72 points. I would be surprised if he got another year after finishing 6th! I would be shocked if he got another year after finishing 7th because their is failure and then complete and total failure.

They will also understand what the players think of him and if it's not positive then they are faced with a situation of either get rid of the manager or the players however the former is far more economical.

The big question is his replacement. If Jurgen Klopp is even slightly available I can see Woodward giving him a tremendous offer as he is an admirer referring to him as a 'genius'. As for Louis van Gaal, he is risky because of how out spoken he is, also he has had his failures in the past but also he has had great success therefore he would probably be a better choice than Moyes in their eyes.

Even though it is plausible to argue a manager like Pochettino could get far more out of our squad than Moyes, the Glazers might not be willing to take a risk on another unproven manager. It's a difficult choice but in my opinion it is far more risky giving Moyes another year, when they could sign Pochettino on a one year contract with a mandatory extension if he achieves top four.

In conclusion, they have options and due to the failure of this season they would be foolish not to explore these. And once explored I don't think giving Moyes another year is the best option therefore I do think he will leave in the summer.

Spurs must travel to stoke and west ham before playing Villa at home. I honestly think no Europa Football will be the end of him therefore should Spurs win all three I can't see him staying. That said, Arsenal could very well finish 5th and win the FA Cup thus giving United Europa despite a 7th place finish, if this happens he might just be the luckiest manager in world football, if he isn't already.

I think your right. Klopp's positioned himself as the next German Manager, and although Van Gaal has the right mentality, his out spoken nature wont align itself to the corporate side of the club. Lots of good young managers out there, I just don't see Utd taking another risk with an unproven manager of such a big club. Not an easy as people think, and thats why they'll probably give DM another season...

 

[Empire]

I think your right. Klopp's positioned himself as the next German Manager, and although Van Gaal has the right mentality, his out spoken nature wont align itself to the corporate side of the club. Lots of good young managers out there, I just don't see Utd taking another risk with an unproven manager of such a big club. Not an easy as people think, and thats why they'll probably give DM another season...

The risk of giving David Moyes another season will surely be too great. He will require around £100m for his 4 or 5 world class players or whatever it is he wants, the share price has already dropped A LOT therefore if he doesn't improve that will only continue to go down. It also seems he has been alienating players, if this is true the Glazers will know.

Louis van Gaal despite being outspoken will still be much less of a risk.

 

[Bojan11]

I think your right. Klopp's positioned himself as the next German Manager, and although Van Gaal has the right mentality, his out spoken nature wont align itself to the corporate side of the club. Lots of good young managers out there, I just don't see Utd taking another risk with an unproven manager of such a big club. Not an easy as people think, and thats why they'll probably give DM another season...

Fergie wasn't outspoken? Such nonsense. Klopp isn't outspoken?

You first say you didn't want LVG in another thread because he's not long term. I'd rather have 3 years of LVG than 6 years of Moyes.

 

[united_99]

I just don't get it. Either Moyes is extremely smug and arrogant or he is plain stupid, not just naive, but really stupid who just doesn't get it and never will.
I refuse to believe someone like him with nothing to show for can be that arrogant. So it must be the latter. I mean how can you send so many good attacking players on the pitch and create absolutely nothing at all? How can you witness time and time again Rooney getting the ball wide or losing it without doing anything about it? How can you manage to give close to no instructions to your players at all?

Honestly, even a League One manager would at least make sure, that our attacking players don't get into each others' way! Against Bayern our players knew what to do because Moyes is all about defending. But even then, how can you be that clueless when it comes to attacking? That's why he also always talks about being compact, getting a result, we made a mistake for the first goal, we need to avoid those mistakes, blah blah.
But how can you after being at United for almost a year and reading lots of news where ppl suggest he needs a mentality change and we need to take the initiative in games and that he needs to think and talk like an United manager, still not follow these suggestions? How is it even possible that after a game he never says something like "Yes, we conceded early but we still had 75 minutes to score some goals!"?? Because he doesn't even know how to score one goal, let alone more! The game for him is lost once we concede a goal because his masterplan "keep it 0-0 and one goal will hopefully come" doesn't work once we concede. I knew he was a defensive coach, but I didn't think he was THAT clueless attacking wise. Seriously, that's Brucey or Sparkey level attacking cluelessness, I thought he was at least better than that. But now I feel that at least Brucey might be a better coach!
I seriously think Moyes is stupid, that he feels sorry for himself and isn't prepared to listen to anyone or anything who challenges him, because he thinks he is next to faultless. This sadly for United also means that if he stays we are in for much more trouble!

 

[Litch]

Bob and Alex are not on the board. They are advisors regarding the football side of things however if after conducting a thorough review the board decide continuity with David is far too risky, they will seek other advisors since Alex and Bob got it so wrong last time around although I do think they will still consult Bob and Alex to get their opinion.

Really, everything I've read says Bbby's been on the board of directors since 1984, and obviously SAF last year......

 

[Sarni]

He's very smug. He believes in himself and himself only and I honestly think that he reckons he has done a good job here only to be let down by players and bad luck.

 

[Empire]

Really, everything I've read says Bbby's been on the board of directors since 1984, and obviously SAF last year......

http://ir.manutd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=133303&p=irol-govboard

 

[Kakeru]

What the bloody hell's that?!?

It refers to a character created by French writer Voltaire in a book named Candide. Pangloss is a philosopher and Candide's tutor. His optimistic belief that this world is "the best of all possible worlds" is the primary target of the novel's satire. Pangloss’s own experiences contradict this belief, but he remains faithful to it nonetheless. Like Candide, Pangloss is not a three-dimensional character. Instead, he is an exaggerated parody of overly optimistic Enlightenment philosophers.

 

[PlayerOne]

The risk of giving David Moyes another season will surely be too great. He will require around £100m for his 4 or 5 world class players or whatever it is he wants, the share price has already dropped A LOT therefore if he doesn't improve that will only continue to go down. It also seems he has been alienating players, if this is true the Glazers will know.

Louis van Gaal despite being outspoken will still be much less of a risk.

I honestly don't see how just buying players sorts out most of the issue. You can't fix a unhappy dressing room with new players.

 

[Litch]

Fergie wasn't outspoken? Such nonsense. Klopp isn't outspoken?

You first say you didn't want LVG in another thread because he's not long term. I'd rather have 3 years of LVG than 6 years of Moyes.

Fergie was the manager here for 20+ years, I think he's earned the right to voice his opinions. Klopp may be outspoken but the last time I looked, he managed a team in Germany.

Also, I still dont want LVG as a long term replacement, but I'm not denying he has the right mentality and big club experience.

 

[Sarni]

I honestly don't see how just buying players sorts out most of the issue. You can't fix a unhappy dressing room with new players.

You can if you eliminate current players one by one and ship them away while replacing them with more expensive Moyes players.

What gives me a little hope is that a lot has been said about his job being in danger and no one has come out to deny it lately.

 

[Bojan11]

Fergie was the manager here for 20+ years, I think he's earned the right to voice his opinions. Klopp may be outspoken but the last time I looked, he managed a team in Germany.

Also, I still dont want LVG as a long term replacement, but I'm not denying her has the right mentality and big club experience.

What? So it's ok to be outspoken in Germany?

 

[Empire]

I honestly don't see how just buying players sorts out most of the issue. You can't fix a unhappy dressing room with new players.

Also, it would be too costly therefore I don't think the board will sanction it.

 

[Litch]

http://ir.manutd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=133303&p=irol-govboard

Avie Glazer said: 'I am delighted to announce that Alex has agreed to stay with the club as a director.

Strange....I guess it will be how its structured.

 

[Kakeru]

Fergie was the manager here for 20+ years, I think he's earned the right to voice his opinions. Klopp may be outspoken but the last time I looked, he managed a team in Germany.

Also, I still dont want LVG as a long term replacement, but I'm not denying he has the right mentality and big club experience.

What's wrong with being outspoken in England and yet it is right to do in Germany? Is the cold hard truth something people can't take in the UK?

 

[LonelyFire]

He's very smug. He believes in himself and himself only and I honestly think that he reckons he has done a good job here only to be let down by players and bad luck.

Spot on. He does actually believe none of this is his fault.

He's a goner. SAF has distanced himself and the silence is deafening.

Although, it's in the hands of fans. If they turn on him he'll be out before seasons end.

 

[SteveJ]

It refers to a character created by French writer Voltaire in a book named Candide. Pangloss is a philosopher and Candide's tutor. His optimistic belief that this world is "the best of all possible worlds" is the primary target of the novel's satire. Pangloss’s own experiences contradict this belief, but he remains faithful to it nonetheless. Like Candide, Pangloss is not a three-dimensional character. Instead, he is an exaggerated parody of overly optimistic Enlightenment philosophers.

Blimey.

#PanglossOut

 

[Litch]

What? So it's ok to be outspoken in Germany?

I guess it depends on what. I'm suggesting if you go for an interview or want a job, sometimes its not a good idea to be too controversial or outspoken. However, if you've been at the club 20 years and won an unprecedented amount of trophies, its a little different.

 

[KeninDC]

http://ir.manutd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=133303&p=irol-govboard

Fergie and Charlton are Directors of Manchester United according to 2013 financials (excerpted below). There are different entities-so they may not be on the board of the PLC-but directors of a subsidiary. In any event I assume they have influence on football relate matters.

 

[Litch]

What's wrong with being outspoken in England and yet it is right to do in Germany? Is the cold hard truth something people can't take in the UK?

Eh?

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

If he's sacked at the end of the season we should have an open bus parade to celebrate. It's gotten that bad.

He's an absolute clown who is ruining the team.

 

[Litch]

Fergie and Charlton are Directors of Manchester United according to 2013 financials (excerpted below). There are different entities-so they may not be on the board of the PLC-but directors of a subsidiary. In any event I assume they have influence on football relate matters.

Thanks you, like I said, its how its structured. In fact they are the only football people on it so why do people think they have no influence on matters like the manager.

Avie Glazer said: 'His (SAF) contributions to Manchester United over the last 26 years have been extraordinary and, like all United fans, I want him to be a part of its future.' No influence then...?

 

[LonelyFire]

Fergie and Charlton are Directors of Manchester United according to 2013 financials (excerpted below). There are different entities-so they may not be on the board of the PLC-but directors of a subsidiary. In any event I assume they have influence on football relate matters.

Actually, no....only if the owners choose to listen which given performance and subsequent impact on the brand is unlikely. This has become a business decision and it will only be made by the glazers.

 

[Mersault]

Both SAF and Gill are non-executive directors. Of course they'll be listened to. But would SAF be saying to people now "come on, Moyes will prove great"...I doubt it. And if he is, they should ignore it.

 

[KeninDC]

Actually, no....only if the owners choose to listen which given performance and subsequent impact on the brand is unlikely. This has become a business decision and it will only be made by the glazers.

I agree that the owners have ultimate authority. But-you don't think Fergie and Charlton have any input into footballing decisions? And yes-if either one still backs Moyes then that advice should be ignored.

 

[Empire]

Fergie and Charlton are Directors of Manchester United according to 2013 financials (excerpted below). There are different entities-so they may not be on the board of the PLC-but directors of a subsidiary. In any event I assume they have influence on football relate matters.

There are people on the website referred to as directors that aren't on that list. Therefore I'm not sure how the company is actually structured and the level of influence the likes of Ferguson, Charlton and David Gill have. I would like to think they would be overruled because the board don't want continued volatility in its stock price. The final decision will hopefully be a financial one as opposed to a football one, for example, the stock price decreased by £300m from when Moyes took over to the end of Feb although it has since risen a little. They must ensure whatever is causing the volatility is solved.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I honestly don't see how just buying players sorts out most of the issue. You can't fix a unhappy dressing room with new players.

Clearly not. But you can improve the morale by shipping out a few influential figures. And if these figures are, largely, the "senior players" we've been hearing about for a while now, that's a very different prospect.

He could, realistically, ship out five or six players, bring in three or four new faces, give a couple of youngsters a squad number - and Bob's yer uncle. Or, for that matter, slim the squad somewhat. Every departing "dissenter" doesn't need replacing, not necessarily.

 

[Mersault]

I think those who wanted Moyes in the first place should not be advising on who comes in to repair what he's done and build for the future.

 

[KeninDC]

There are people on the website referred to as directors that aren't on that list. Therefore I'm not sure how the company is actually structured and the level of influence the likes of Ferguson, Charlton and David Gill have. I would like to think they would be overruled because the board don't want continued volatility in its stock price. The final decision will hopefully be a financial one as opposed to a football one, for example, the stock price decreased by £300m from when Moyes took over to the end of Feb although it has since risen a little. They must ensure whatever is causing the volatility is solved.

United's corporate structure is very complex because the Glazers set-up a Cayman Islands entity to "own" the club in order to minimize tax liability. So-each entity can have different directors. I agree sacking Moyes will be a financial decision by the Glazers. They may have to overrule Fergie and/or Charlton-who knows. I suspect Woodward will also be an important voice in the decision.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I can see that. But if you don't allow for just A LITTLE leeway, then there's no point to it.

It's a ridiculous concept to begin with. But I understand that they had to "censor" May. He isn't there to blatantly have a go at Moyes. Phil or Giggsy can't have a go at him in a post match interview either. It's sort of the same thing. Which makes the channel itself utterly pointless and dull as all hell. But I suppose it serves some sort of money making purpose.

 

[PlayerOne]

Clearly not. But you can improve the morale by shipping out a few influential figures. And if these figures are, largely, the "senior players" we've been hearing about for a while now, that's a very different prospect.

He could, realistically, ship out five or six players, bring in three or four new faces, give a couple of youngsters a squad number - and Bob's yer uncle. Or, for that matter, slim the squad somewhat. Every departing "dissenter" doesn't need replacing, not necessarily.

What if it's more than 5-6 who are unhappy? What if some are happy with the management style or training, that doesn't change next season.

 

[SteveJ]

We're gonna need a smaller changing-room...or a phonebox for Moyes, Wayne & Patrice.

 

[Sarni]

Imagine Ferguson comes at the end of season and says in public that he won't stand for this and watch his club disappear, he will be a double legend for admitting to a mistake and advocating sacking of the smug Scot.

It won't happen, he has too much class to do that.