I think a lot of the difficulties he has had with getting past defenders has been how slow we have been to get the ball to him in space. He was a revelation when we had Scholes firing balls out to him in space. He's always been one dimensional and poor at crossing. He was still a very effective player despite it.
Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances
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Yeah I better, it's part of my upcoming exam.
I might want to look up 'patronising' and 'dickhead' as well, for a better overall understanding of your posts.
edit : or indeed my own
Possibly. You generally fancy him to get into a good position when he's one v one but that seems to happen very rarely these days. Usually ends up against two defenders and not the type of player to dribble the two of them or whip in a cross around them.
Christ we've got a team who individually are pretty useless and its never their fault. All I hear is we cant get the best out of Kagawa...we dont give Valencia the ball in space...laughable excuses really.
Ah, but I've never tried to do that, have I? You didn't bother to read my post properly, and are assuming I'm directly arguing with your point. I wasn't defending Valencia (as I said in my first post on the subject), just attacking the people who can't accept that he sometimes puts in good performances, and that sometimes his performances aren't great but also aren't total shite (or 'putting in 7-8 consecutive deliveries which all hit the first man', to use your words.)
Yeah, I didn't say anything even remotely like that. Your memory might be too short to remember the difference between how quickly Scholes moved the ball out wide and our other players do. That isn't my fault. It's also not my fault when you fail to spot me saying he was always a poor crosser in the exact post you quoted.
When you post bollocks, expect to be called up on it. All I did was to point out how brightonian needlessly twisted the feck out the redstar guy's post and then added things he didnt even come close to saying to make a point. That isnt paraphrasing but evidently pointing that out calls for a personal attack, fair dos.
I love how his haters use stats after each of his poorer games yet fail to acknowledge he had more key passes against Norwich than anyone. Or his passing percentage.
Yeah, If my post was idiocy I dont know what yours is mate. I didn't say Rooney doesn't value technique I meant that he values it less than he values speed, something which he doesn't badly lack.if Mata said that he wanted Valencias speed, I wouldnt have said anything against it. And I am English, we do value the physical aspects of the game a lot more here than around the continent.
How was he being 'patronising' and a 'dickhead' for stating correctly that the other guy is misquoting me.
This is what I said - Its not like Rooney is slow is he? how about Van Persie or Mata's technique Wayne? English mentality personified.
Do you seriously think that that sentence could be paraphrased to say Rooney thinks Mata and RVP are shit?
I'm sure that most people are aware of when Valencia does something positive in a game, but there's also an element of frustration over him producing so little in an attacking sense, so that's where some of the blindness is coming from when people are looking back on his performances. I do appreciate some other sides to his game with are useful to us as a team, but I also can't help but feel let down by how far he's regressed as an attacking threat. His stats are shocking for a United winger that gets so much game time.
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I'm not sure they are aware of it. The biggest problem in here is people have made up their mind before the game has started and twist what happens in the game to suit their narrative. Were he as bad as people have been saying then he wouldn't be playing.
You're probably right. That post was daft enough that it didn't need paraphrasing, much less periphrasing. He should have just quoted it word for word, but that's not why I said patonising anyway(him leaping to your defence).
We are getting sidetracked into tedium now.
The point is, people insistent that Valencia is 'shit as usual' won't even acknowledge shades of greyness, much less genuinely good performances(which have occurred this season, but you wouldn't know it by reading this thread).
It seems as if Valencia can do everything else correctly, but his final ball is always going to be poor. Against Norwich, his crossing was poor. His final ball has been no good for the past few matches most of the time. He also had trouble beating his man, and his marker often gets the block in.
Other than that, he's done everything else well. He supports the full back very well. His passing choices are very good when they're available. He links up well with players. His movement's good when given the freedom. His only problem is the final ball, and as a winger, his final ball is the most important part of his game.
If he can't get his final ball sorted, then all of the good work he does beforehand will be all for nought. I just hope he improves it, though, so that he can get back to being the threatening player he was for our first few seasons.
Other than that, he's done everything else well. He supports the full back very well. His passing choices are very good when they're available. He links up well with players. His movement's good when given the freedom. His only problem is the final ball, and as a winger, his final ball is the most important part of his game.
If he can't get his final ball sorted, then all of the good work he does beforehand will be all for nought. I just hope he improves it, though, so that he can get back to being the threatening player he was for our first few seasons.
This picture made me laugh:
Of course it could be taken badly out of context, so to speak, as maybe he had already celebrated or he was joining up with someone en route to the celebration.
But regardless, this epitomizes Valencia
He hasn't had a good season or two now, but I do hope he stays with us next year as a squad player. No one can deny that he can be effective even if he's having an useless game. His directness and drive CAN be a great asset. There's no doubt that the injury he suffered a couple of seasons ago ruined him a bit as he hasn't been the same since.
Random bump, but yeah just thought the picture was just the definition of Valencia.
Of course it could be taken badly out of context, so to speak, as maybe he had already celebrated or he was joining up with someone en route to the celebration.
But regardless, this epitomizes Valencia
He hasn't had a good season or two now, but I do hope he stays with us next year as a squad player. No one can deny that he can be effective even if he's having an useless game. His directness and drive CAN be a great asset. There's no doubt that the injury he suffered a couple of seasons ago ruined him a bit as he hasn't been the same since.Random bump, but yeah just thought the picture was just the definition of Valencia.
Depends on your definition of productivity. More goals or assists? Many would agree. But how about pass completion, interceptions, tackles, balls won?
We all know Nani is a potential match winner but he's always blown hot and cold and is prone to very bad decisions. I know it's unpopular to say here, but his challenge against Real Madrid in last year's CL was reckless and a player with better temperament would not have attempted that.
Young bags some very nice goals but his all-round play is nowhere near Valencia's, and he tends to disappear from matches because he gets outmuscled by too defenders.
Definition of a nothing player.
Thought he did well yesterday. It's nice when he plays as a fullback (and not having to defend) as you don't expect him to dribble past him then but rather link up with the winger and make runs. He did those things very well.
He was decent as a full back, today. He wasn't as bad, defensively, as he was before, and he made himself useful linking up with the winger and providing some good width. He didn't put in many crosses, but he made good use of the ball rather than waste it.
Would rather have him at RB than anyone aside from Rafael.
Had nothing to defend which was helpful but didn't really notice him much. A few link ups with Januzaj aside and that he did okay with. Against teams like Hull he can play FB but not against teams that either have something to play for or a quality team. So hoping Rafael is back for Sou match.
It's nicer when he's the secondary outlet on the right and not the main supply line due to his recently terrible crossing form. I'd rather he were overlapping Januzaj than Jones or Smalling.
He might save his united career by becoming a back-up right back. And if Rafael is his strongest competition he'll get plenty of games there.
Not a bad thought actually. I've never really considered it. But if he could turn into a RB it would save us having to go and buy a back-up. I'm not ure his defensive awareness and concentration is good enough though. He has had a few incidents this season that has costed us goals (and points). If he can work hard and improve though then I wouldn't mind it. He's pretty pointless as a winger anyway.
More of a chance he could move infield than a right back in my opinion. Fullback positions are something you just do not screw around with and play specialists almost all the time. I always thought he would play like Luiz Gustavo if he played as a central midfielder.
Makes sense in theory, and yet he's been played as a RB many a time and pretty much never been played in CM. Certainly seems worth a try but the managers have never seen it that way.
He's played as (or does play as) a CM for Ecuador doesn't he? I think I heard that somewhere.
He's shit in the air. Like, really shit. He'll never make a decent right back.
He's played CM for Ecuador when there's 1 striker in a 4-5-1 (against stronger teams or when defending a lead). For instance here he is against Chile last November setting up Felipe Caicedo for a goal. Watch from 0:31 seconds, he picks up the ball behind the halfway line then sprints up to lay the ball off to Caicedo.
I find that strange too considering Fergie has tried to convert everyone and their moms into central midfielders from Alan Smith, Rooney and Fletcher to Ji Sung Park, Rafael and Fabio.
I wouldn't call it recent myself. But I agree with the general point.I'd rather he play CM than RB personally but yeah against teams coming to defend he can play RB..it's when we play good teams he's a problem there. He does the attacking part well from deep/RB but he's never going to be a great defender. They tried this too late in his career.
but yeah against teams coming to defend he can play RB..it's when we play good teams he's a problem there. He does the attacking part well from deep/RB but he's never going to be a great defender. They tried this too late in his career.Wait, what , he didn't hit the fullback?
Who'd have thought it?
I think he's been awful this season. It frustrates me seeing someone play so regularly who offers so little. Anyone can leather the ball into the box and hope it reaches a red shirt. Shite.
No surprise that the better passers are higher on that scoreboard. But to be below a keeper? Wow
DDG got a better score with his weaker foot...
Valencia seems to have lost that burst of acceleration which takes him beyond the full back. He used to be unstoppable at going from standing to full pelt. He doesn't even try to do that anymore. He still looks lightning quick, but just not so quick off the mark. He's been poor for two full seasons, which is saddening after how good he was prior to last season. His acceleration is what made him such a threat, I can't see what role he could possibly play for us any more. I'd still be a little sad to see him go, but I think he has to.
Being scouted by Louis van Gaal right now, his team seem to be doing well enough as they're in front.
Hopefully he plays terrible
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