Alternatives to penalty shootouts in World Cups

rcoobc

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Won't that just make extra time a bit like a defence vs attack training session with one team likely just holding on for dear life for the last 30 minutes?
Yes, but it stops both teams holding on for dear life in fear of losing before the end. We see it in the champions league at the moment with away goals, it means one team "needs" to score to go through, whilst the other could get away with a draw... But if they don't score again themselves they risk gbeing knocked out by a single goal.

Not something that's been a problem this world cupreally, playing for pens
 

quackattack

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"Good evening Europe....."
:D
But seriously, isn't it what it's all about? Who can entertain us better?
Like, when a team wins after one counter attack, then defending for an hour many people say that they didn't deserve their win and they were crap etc. With that methode it can be prevented (unless, of course the manner of which they were defending was convincing enaugh). People can "influence the resoult" by voting and of course, the number of goals would count a given % as well as the assocoation/jury.
 

Twentythreeeleven

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It's been asking for a while and some studies have been written on it. You have a pebalty shootout at the end of 90 minutes, possibly a shortened version, and the team that wins gets "away goal" advantage for extra time. I.e. if its a draw, they will go through.

This works because it is no different to what we currently have, but swapped. If its a draw in extra time and Germany win on penalties, they are through, or if Germany win on penalties and they draw they are through.
It's actually not a bad idea.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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Penalties are great. The suspense in a penalty shoot out is unparalleled in professional sport IMO. I've never felt how I did during the shootout at the CL final in Moscow. Just shaking with emotion. I don't think any other part of football, or any other sport, can really come close to that. It's simultaneously brilliant and horrible.

If after two hours, two teams still can't be separated based on ability, then it's very fitting that it then comes down to mental strength instead. Any professional player should be able to dispatch a penalty no problem, but to do it under that much pressure, with heavy cramping legs is a different matter. Even Ronaldo missed in 08. Our designated penalty taker at the time.

It isn't as much of a lottery as pundits would have you believe, but I think there's still an element of luck involved. Fatigued legs aren't going to be as confident at taking penalties as they usually would, and unless you put it right into the top corner, the goalkeeper has a chance of saving a penalty if he goes the right way, perhaps makes his decision slightly early and commits himself right across the line. The player can make a scuffed connection, or as we all fondly remember, you can fall down right at the last crucial moment.

Penalties are wonderfully brutal.
 

Twentythreeeleven

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Yes, but it stops both teams holding on for dear life in fear of losing before the end. We see it in the champions league at the moment with away goals, it means one team "needs" to score to go through, whilst the other could get away with a draw... But if they don't score again themselves they risk gbeing knocked out by a single goal.

Not something that's been a problem this world cupreally, playing for pens
Agree, teams having a goal advantage in the second leg of a champions league tie doesn't ruin the game.
 

Plugsy

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Yes, but it stops both teams holding on for dear life in fear of losing before the end. We see it in the champions league at the moment with away goals, it means one team "needs" to score to go through, whilst the other could get away with a draw... But if they don't score again themselves they risk gbeing knocked out by a single goal.

Not something that's been a problem this world cupreally, playing for pens
I'd sooner scrap the away goals rule to be honest.
 

MikeMango

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The best team isn't always one that wins the penalty shoot out though. And why shouldnt consistency throughout the tournament count towards something?

The answer to your last question is that there has been deliberate rule changes made by FIFA over last 25 years to give attacking teams more of an advantage. It would be daft to start going the other way. Goal scoring should be encouraged over defending.
Maybe the best team not always wins in a penalty shootout, but at least every team has the same chance. Maybe there isn't a better team. If they draw, maybe both teams played on the same level.
In your way you hand one team an advantage before the match has startet. That would result in one team sitting back and focus solely on counter-attacks, because they "win" with a draw, especially in extra-time. So the chances that the more passive team is progrssing is higher with your approach than with penalties.

And why do you consider just scoring goals consistent ?
Say one teams results are: 3-2, 2-2 and 4-3 (Team A)
the other team: 2-0, 1-0, 3-1 (Team B)
So, the team with fewer points and lesser goal difference is more consistent than team B ?

You can't hand one team an advantage before the game. That would change the hole dynamic of the game.
Sorry, but thats terrible. I couldn't think of a worse method to decide who goes through after a draw.
 

ricky-romeo

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Penalties are great. The suspense in a penalty shoot out is unparalleled in professional sport IMO. I've never felt how I did during the shootout at the CL final in Moscow. Just shaking with emotion. I don't think any other part of football, or any other sport, can really come close to that. It's simultaneously brilliant and horrible.

If after two hours, two teams still can't be separated based on ability, then it's very fitting that it then comes down to mental strength instead. Any professional player should be able to dispatch a penalty no problem, but to do it under that much pressure, with heavy cramping legs is a different matter. Even Ronaldo missed in 08. Our designated penalty taker at the time.

It isn't as much of a lottery as pundits would have you believe, but I think there's still an element of luck involved. Fatigued legs aren't going to be as confident at taking penalties as they usually would, and unless you put it right into the top corner, the goalkeeper has a chance of saving a penalty if he goes the right way, perhaps makes his decision slightly early and commits himself right across the line. The player can make a scuffed connection, or as we all fondly remember, you can fall down right at the last crucial moment.

Penalties are wonderfully brutal.
i was hiding under the sheet when our players were about to take their penalties..just cannot watch it.

super wonderful when united are not involved though :drool:
 

Twentythreeeleven

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Maybe the best team not always wins in a penalty shootout, but at least every team has the same chance. Maybe there isn't a better team. If they draw, maybe both teams played on the same level.
In your way you hand one team an advantage before the match has startet. That would result in one team sitting back and focus solely on counter-attacks, because they "win" with a draw. So the chances that the more passive team is progrssing is higher with your approach than with penalties.

And why do you consider just scoring goals consistent ?
Say one teams results are: 3-2, 2-2 and 4-3 (Team A)
the other team: 2-0, 1-0, 3-1 (Team B)
So, the team with fewer points and lesser goal difference is more consistent than team B ?

You can't hand one team an advantage before the game. That would change the hole dynamic of the game.
Sorry, but thats terrible. I couldn't think of a worse method to decide who goes through after a draw.
Well you don't hand one team an advantage. It would have been earnt throughout the tournament. Anyway, I've kind of gone off my original idea. I think there's been some better ones posted.
 

Zii

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Penalty's are a test of nerve and skill, its not luck like people make it out to be.
 

Twentythreeeleven

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Like anything, someday someone will come up with something so stupendiously simple and brilliant we'll all say "Why didn't I think of that".
 

Sky1981

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Penalties are great. The suspense in a penalty shoot out is unparalleled in professional sport IMO. I've never felt how I did during the shootout at the CL final in Moscow. Just shaking with emotion. I don't think any other part of football, or any other sport, can really come close to that. It's simultaneously brilliant and horrible.

If after two hours, two teams still can't be separated based on ability, then it's very fitting that it then comes down to mental strength instead. Any professional player should be able to dispatch a penalty no problem, but to do it under that much pressure, with heavy cramping legs is a different matter. Even Ronaldo missed in 08. Our designated penalty taker at the time.

It isn't as much of a lottery as pundits would have you believe, but I think there's still an element of luck involved. Fatigued legs aren't going to be as confident at taking penalties as they usually would, and unless you put it right into the top corner, the goalkeeper has a chance of saving a penalty if he goes the right way, perhaps makes his decision slightly early and commits himself right across the line. The player can make a scuffed connection, or as we all fondly remember, you can fall down right at the last crucial moment.

Penalties are wonderfully brutal.
It's only luck and lottery because England never won it.

I don't think they call it that elsewhere
 

Twentythreeeleven

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Penalty's are a test of nerve and skill, its not luck like people make it out to be.
It's not all luck. But there is a high element of luck. Take for example that one that greece missed the other night. It was a solid penalty kick that would have gone in 9 times out of 10.
 

Sarni

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Well everything is a lottery if you want to break it down like that. But a game of seven-a-side would involve passing, tackling, heading, free kicks, throw ins, corner kicks, goal kicks, setting of a formation by the coach and a myriad of other thing which a game of normal football involves. Not just a kick from one spot on a pitch.
A kick that requires certain amount of skill to execute. Football is mainly about goals, people want goals, excitement, that's what penalties bring. They're great.
 

Ainu

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Yes, but it stops both teams holding on for dear life in fear of losing before the end. We see it in the champions league at the moment with away goals, it means one team "needs" to score to go through, whilst the other could get away with a draw... But if they don't score again themselves they risk gbeing knocked out by a single goal.

Not something that's been a problem this world cupreally, playing for pens
I like it, particularly the fact that the penalty shoot-out wouldn't have the final say. The "losing" team still has time to put it right. I don't see it ever being implemented though, as it would probably be considered too awkward and disruptive to the flow of the game.
 

Twentythreeeleven

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A kick that requires certain amount of skill to execute. Football is mainly about goals, people want goals, excitement, that's what penalties bring. They're great.
Agreed. But it's not a fair way to decide a football match IMHO.
 

Twentythreeeleven

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The football match itself is a fair way to decide who progresses. Both teams have had 2 hours to do that.
Hmm, Agree to a degree. But it's not really like other sports. The low scoring nature of the game means that one team can dominate another and the game can still result in a draw.
 

ashneel

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Penalties are brutal and sometimes harsh, but their is no other alternative. Penalties are not only luck,but they're about skill and compusure.
 

Mockney

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Hmm, Agree to a degree. But it's not really like other sports. The low scoring nature of the game means that one team can dominate another and the game can still result in a draw.
Which is just as unfair. You're far too hung up on the imagined fairness of it. It's not like it's out of their hands.

That said, I've never been against the "removing players" thing. You just need a more appropriate timeline.
 
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dumbo

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Absolutely love world cup penalty shootouts.

And it's not as if taking a penalty is not part of the game already. I don't think shootouts are any less 'fair' than being given a free shot for a minor foul inches inside the area.

It's a game after all, not the 100m.
 

JackXX

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I've never seen anything like a decent suggestion to replace penalties tbh. The game has been played for 120 minutes which is plenty of time for a game to be one in a traditional way and players at this point are knackered. Presenting either side with one on one goal scoring oppurtunities is a great way to decide.
 

Red Rebel

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Penalties strips the game to its basic core. A struggle between two players played out in public.

That is the theatre that makes football so engrossing and engaging.

The tension in the run up, you pause as the player strikes the ball and then erupt when he scores. Nothing else captures a crowds emotion.
 

RedRonaldo

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Reasons? Alternatives? Counter arguments? Or are you just going to be a simpleton?
The idea is so stupid that it doesn't even worthy of any counter arguments.

For a start, if you think goal tally against different opponents from different groups should be a decisive factor in knockout stage... Besides, some teams with superior goal tally from the 'weaker' group might just play for a draw to win and proceed to next round.

I'll say just keep the penalty as last resort. At least it's fair.
 

sallycinnamin

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I think if we continue to change things then the beautiful game gets spurned into something not so beautiful.Besides its inherent to reflect/euligise over games/desicisions and controversy of days gone by.Let football be.
 

Xaviesta

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Penalties are great. The suspense during the Chile vs Brazil game was immense, and I hope the final goes to penalties. West Germany/Germany hasn't lost a shootout since 1976, so there must be a reason behind it.
 

Carter99

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Penalties is the best way to decide it.
I cant think of a better alternative.

Maybe the Ice-Hockey-like Shootout when the Player are running towards the goal and are not allowed to move back, but i still favour Penalties.
 

Sarni

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The idea is so stupid that it doesn't even worthy of any counter arguments.

For a start, if you think goal tally against different opponents from different groups should be a decisive factor in knockout stage... Besides, some teams with superior goal tally from the 'weaker' group might just play for a draw to win and proceed to next round.

I'll say just keep the penalty as last resort. At least it's fair.
You're just using poor groups as an excuse. There's no difference between playing Spain and North Korea apparently, scoring against them is equally difficult, as proven by Spain conceding 5 against Netherlands (first time they've conceded more than 2 in an official match in God knows how long).
 

Dirty Schwein

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They should play Extra Time with no keepers and see who scores the most in that time and if it's still even, the GK's of each team constantly take pens against each other in sudden death scenario!
 

Sarni

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Penalties are great. The suspense during the Chile vs Brazil game was immense, and I hope the final goes to penalties. West Germany/Germany hasn't lost a shootout since 1976, so there must be a reason behind it.
Bayern did though. At a very crucial time.
 

Sarni

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I was talking about the national team.
Yeah I know. How many times have they been in penalties? They beat Argentina on penalties in 2006, didn't go into penalties since, have they? In 2008 they beat Portugal and Turkey before penalties, in 2010 they beat England and Argentina in regular time, in 2012 they were beaten by Italy after beating Greece also in regular time. Before 2006 they weren't in penalties in 2004 because they went out in the groups, I don't remember them in penalties in 2002 either. Also exited the European Championship at group stages in 2000. So just 1 penalty shootout in the last 15 years.

They bottled the 2006 semi final before penalties. Would have probably made the final otherwise (they weren't very good back then though).
 

RedRonaldo

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You're just using poor groups as an excuse. There's no difference between playing Spain and North Korea apparently, scoring against them is equally difficult, as proven by Spain conceding 5 against Netherlands (first time they've conceded more than 2 in an official match in God knows how long).
Still it is possible there is a weaker opponent in a group with shite defense that had been letting in lots of goals vs another group where most of the opponents are very discipline at the back.