It's definitely not laziness. Messi has a great mentality. He's not the sort of player to lack effort.
Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
According to his old man, he's exhausted:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...ead-World-Cup-2014-final-against-Germany.html
Really hope he puts on a performance tomorrow. It's the biggest game of his career and he should be told to stay in the opposition half, the deeper he drops the less involed he gets, and it's not good for him if he is struggling for fitness. This is where Sabella earns his corn.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...ead-World-Cup-2014-final-against-Germany.html
Really hope he puts on a performance tomorrow. It's the biggest game of his career and he should be told to stay in the opposition half, the deeper he drops the less involed he gets, and it's not good for him if he is struggling for fitness. This is where Sabella earns his corn.
It may not be laziness but he is lethargic and the end result is largely the same thing. I still think people consistently overlook the human element of football just because these players are capable of doing superhuman things on the pitch. Just 18 months ago he had his first child and then he and his family had those tax issues that dragged on for months and months for the media so it's entirely possible that he's just not 100% focused on his profession at the moment. It's entirely normal for that to happen in someone's professional life and with the extreme physical, mental and even social pressures put on players at the top level these days it's not hard to understand why players would suffer from burnout for a while every now and then. We all know that at the top level that extra 1 or 2% is what separates the elite players from the rest and that's all that Messi is lacking. Physically I think he has lost that extra burst of speed and in fairness he has had muscle injuries since a teen and has had to manage his fitness meticulously on and off the pitch for years now much in the same way Giggs did. I think it's more mental than physical on the whole though.
I disagree. It seems a physical issue. The end result might be the same as laziness but whereas in one case it's your body letting you down, in the other it's your attitude.
Actually it could be a case of personal issues weighing him down too. Either way, I don't think it's laziness at all. What timing, though!
He hasn't, and it's becoming more common for people to say it. One of his first goals back from injury in January:
Don't mistake his lack of movement for some sort of physical decline. The Barcelona side in general have looked slow and one paced for a while now, that was clear and evident with Spain.
you know i sort of thought the same, that it seemed like he hasn't lost much.. but then when i watched videos of him at his prime... the problem is that even when he's a shadow of himself, he looks lightning fast and the supreme example of speed on the ball in the world... but at his prime he was something simply unbelievable and clearly far ahead of what he is today.
He's definitely less intense and not quite at that same unstoppable level of acceleration and speed on the ball as he used to be imo.
Messi's never been lightening fast, he's deceptively quick, great burst of acceleration, loads of body feints and quick feet.
He still has that, just his general movement is poor, he seems to refuse to chase players down and create space for himself, ergo people say he doesn't look the same and start exaggerating how quick he used to be and how much running he used to do. It's bullshit.
Next season he'll be back to scoring 50+ goals, Barcelona will look a rejuvenated side and the same people saying he looks like he's on the decline will be blowing steam up his arse again. I wouldn't worry too much.
He still has that, just his general movement is poor, he seems to refuse to chase players down and create space for himself, ergo people say he doesn't look the same and start exaggerating how quick he used to be and how much running he used to do. It's bullshit.
Next season he'll be back to scoring 50+ goals, Barcelona will look a rejuvenated side and the same people saying he looks like he's on the decline will be blowing steam up his arse again. I wouldn't worry too much.
Christ, listen to yourself. Most of the people you're talking about - or talking down to, depending on how you look at it - still think he's the best player in the world. Saying he is not as fast as he used to be is not a criticism of him. It's an observation.
It's an observation based purely at this World Cup mate, and it's bollocks.
It's like how people say Cech was never the same after his injury with Stephen Hunt. He was still useless with crosses even before then, though since that incident, he's apparently not 'brave enough' anymore due to what happened to him.
Messi's fitness levels look seriously poor, but he hasn't lost a yard of pace at all, and that's an observation having watched him before the tournament.
No, it isn't, but I can't be arsed digging up posts from a number of different posters before this World Cup commenting on that. I can see why people don't agree but it's not your place to tell people how, why and when they came to this "bullshit" conclusion because you don't know.
Disagree to an extent. One of his best attributes was the burst of acceleration and ability to beat players from a standing position. He doesn't seem to have that explosiveness anymore. he's still got the ball control and the feints, but that loss of acceleration is pretty noticeable for me. Even his top speed running doesn't look quite the same.
It just seems to be a fitness or condition thing. Hopefully it's not something permanent because that would be a shame given his age.
I find it funny that mascherano, after being largely average and even poor at times, after one good game vs holand (brilliant last ditch tackle mind) has somehow become the key element in this argentina side. People's memories are very, very short
I've never been convinced by Mascherano, because he always seems to be on the verge of either worldclass or a calamity.
He's a fearless warrior, a real tenacious bastard, and one of the best ball winning midfielders in the world. His decision making though.. sometimes it's just disappointing, against holland several times he made a world class tackle or dispossession, and then promptly gave it away into dangerous areas.
Besides Biglia though, a midfielder who's performances i've really really liked, he's done much better then with gago, as biglia is much better at keeping shape and offering thoughtful energy and cover.
He's a fearless warrior, a real tenacious bastard, and one of the best ball winning midfielders in the world. His decision making though.. sometimes it's just disappointing, against holland several times he made a world class tackle or dispossession, and then promptly gave it away into dangerous areas.
Besides Biglia though, a midfielder who's performances i've really really liked, he's done much better then with gago, as biglia is much better at keeping shape and offering thoughtful energy and cover.
Mascherano has been fantastic and a key part of why they have the best defence in the tournament.
On Messi, to say he's Lazy (not you) is just hilarious
Although it is great that when he's not on his best form, he's still head and shoulders the best in the world, IMO
I remember several posts at the beginning of the tournament where people called him shit and talked about how Barca ruined a great defensive midfielder by playing him in defense all the time. Don't think it's true that he's been great throughout the tournament. I'd say it's more the usual 'growing into your role throughout the tournament' which is often a bit underrated, he became better with each passing game in my opinion. It often takes a while and a few competitive games to get going when the team plays different style and the player a different role in the nationalteam compared to your club. It's one of the reasons why I wrote before the semifinal that this German team is getting better and better and is due a great game. My biggest worry is that it could be true for Messi and Argentina as well
. Still believe we have enough quality to beat Argentina, even if they finally click and perform great in defense and attack, but if that happens it can definitely go either way.He's been great defensively as usual. On the ball he's his usual mediocre self which given the other options makes Argentina's midfield ordinary.
Mascherano's stepped it up in the last two matches, as have the entire Argentina defence. Before then, it was Messi and 10 others. Sadly that seems to have been forgotten.
Messi carried them through the group stages.
What do you mean by ordinary? He rarely loses possesion, doesn't overcomplicate things and keeps things ticking over. He's not a playmaker but this doesnt make him mediocre. In fact his job is to do the dirty work and simple things so other can shine. I do agree that Argentina's midfield isnt exactly inspirational though.
Well i think the centreback Garay has been fantastic all tournament.
Di Maria was good value early on as well. Had a number of shots saved and hit he post that could have easily gone in. Also, Roco was good in the group stages bombing on.
Yep and his best game was against Switzerland, he was all over the place, created 8(?) chances in the game, which was the most ever created by an Argentinian in a single match, also made the run and pass for Di Maria to get the winner.
Out of 6 games so far, he's turned up for 4 of them. Worried the Belgians enough for them to leave gaps when Higuain scored, and Holland's game plan fell apart trying to mark him. I'm interested to see how Germany approach this.
He is having a great tournament. He is doing all the things people use to criticize him for not doing with the national team. it is just some people expect him to walk on water and turn water to wine.
He was excellent against Nigeria and Switzerland both in terms of creating play and deciding each game. It was mainly the latter against Bosnia and Iran when, along with the matches against Belgium and Holland, he didn't do much to influence the general run of play. It's not realistic to expect seven magical performances. After all Zidane in 2006 and Baggio in 1994 only woke up after the group stages, or Villa in a translating-possession-into-goals way dragged Spain through past the quarters, without making a mark thereafter.
Just wondering why were not allowed to compare him to Ronaldo? I think there a similarities between what Ronaldo faced in 1998. Going into a final expecting to carry his team against arguably a better opposition.
Cristiano Ronaldo mate.
Ohh, Cristiano Ronaldo. Still doesn't make any sense. People have been comparing him to other players in this thread. Why not him?
Really? I think he's been excellent on the ball, compared to his pre-Barcelona level anyway. He doesn't try anything risky because that's not his job but his short passing has been great and he's spread the play to the wings very well too.
Personally I feel that Mascherano is hugely underrated around the world. Maybe it's because I still like him from his Liverpool days but I think he's the world's best at what he does. It's a limited role but he performs it well.
Messi lost that explosive burst of acceleration, how come? He's not the same as 2009-2012 anymore, perhaps he peaked early?
What sweet, childlike innocence you have.
some say he was rushed from injury, some say he played too many games, some say he's just unfit at the moment...
perhaps playing every single game against two blocks of players as the only capable goalscorer in Barcelona wasn't a comfort zone after all
Yeah bra, 41 goals in 46 games for Barca last season, four out of 6 in this World Cup. He's peaked.
I'm guessing there is some kind of inside joke that I'm not privy to?
Come on, everyone can see Messi is not the same as 2009-2012. It does say something about him, that even not at his best he still produces crazy stats.
Yeah well, I guessing with his hamstring injuries he might have to make a choice like Ryan Giggs did at about the same age?
Although Robben seems to be have kept his explosive pace going into his thirties,
I know one well known Journalist think's it may be partly down to the disgraceful management of his injuries by Barcelona, including bringing him on injured against PSG.some say he was rushed from injury, some say he played too many games, some say he's just unfit at the moment...
perhaps playing every single game against two blocks of players as the only capable goalscorer in Barcelona wasn't a comfort zone after all
Who's everyone? BTW - Messi in 2012/13 pretty much single handedly won the title for Barcelona. He's had about four or five injuries since March 2013, continually bought back only to get re-injured, as a result his movement on the pitch has diminished quite spectacularly. In terms of his acceleration, he's scored plenty of goals since then by breezing past his marker. I genuinely don't get how people can say he's on some sort of decline, hopefully he rams it down everyones throats tonight. Completely unfair critisism of him IMO.
It's not too long ago that there was a similar discussion about Robben in Germany and a lot of people argued he had lost his pace/acceleration. Those were as wrong as people who now think Messi has lost anything.