Next United Manager: Pep Guardiola?

[devilish]

His achievements in a much more competitive league far surpass Pep strolling to the Bundesliga.

With that said though, many have said it and I'm sure he would agree privately, his 2 wins in 26 years is a disappointing record.

Pep had been Bayern's manager since 2013. He won the title, DFP-Pokal, the UEFA Super cup and the FIFA Club world cup. This year his club is first, 10 points ahead of Wolfsburg. That sounds a good record for me.

The CL is a tough nut to break. SAF won in two times in 26 years and lets face it, while we were the better side during those years, luck did play a big part in both finals. We won the first one with 2 goals in the very last minutes of the game while Terry's slip played an enormous role in the second one. Its fair to say that SAF could have EASILY ended up not winning any CLs in his entire career. That doesn't make him a failure.

To be fair Guardiola reminds me a lot of SAF. Their management and style is different but there's something in them that make opposition fans hate them. You can also add Lippi, Clough and Mourinho to that list too. Certainly they may not be the nicest people around (the latter 4 are not) and their way of thinking had upsetted the way football worked at their time. I have met people who had been supporting United for 30-40 years who would rather had Moyes or Atkinson as manager than SAF and would love to blot him out of memory. However they are winners and that's what you need in a big club

 

[WR10]

Bayern are going to win the CL this year.

 

[Adebesi]

I think there's just too few examples to make any sort of judgement like you say, how often does a manager leave a "more of the same" requirement. In fact how often does a manager leave a club in a strong position? It's rare.

As for Pep and LVG comparisons, it's not that they are the same, because they most definitely are not, it's just that in footballing terms Pep is a natural successor to LVG because they have similar methods although I think they have different ideals.


We're on different pages with Klopp, I'm yet to be convinced that he will be a success under different circumstances and in a different league. His only experience is in Germany (and Europe of course). He's another manager who failed because of his ideals and lack of pragmatism. Twice.

His ideals and lack of pragmatism. That, in a nutshell, is why I see him going to Arsenal.

 

[Balu]

The goals Bayern conceded scream a team having it too easy in their domestic league, the pace of the game seemed too much for them.

If Guardiola does not win the CL with Bayern, giving how they seem to stroll through their league, will his tenure there be considered a relative failure?

What's with Premier League fans and their constant need to have a dig at other leagues? It's beyond ridiculous. When we played brilliantly and destroyed all European top teams, you read all over the Caf how the easy league helped us so much and it wouldn't be possible while playing in a more competitive league. Now that we suck in Europe, someone comes up with the theory that it's again because the league isn't competitive enough. It surely can't be both, right?

It makes zero sense anyway. Anyone who watched us since the winterbreak in the domestic games shouldn't be surprised by yesterday's performance. It was no different to the fully deserved losses against Gladbach and Wolfsburg. We've been shit since January, we don't look remotely fit, show no intensity and our cohesion is gone, completely. No pressing, no off the ball movement. Yeah, injuries play a part, but in now way is it the full story. Whatever Pep is doing during the winterbreak is hurting the team. It's the second season in a row where we completely lost momentum and never came close to play as well as before christmas. We stumble through the league and live off the gap we built in the first half of the season. We were lucky to get past Leverkusen in the cup quarterfinal in a penalty shootout after a dire 120 minute long 0-0 draw in which we created feck all upfront.

Guardiola and Sammer really need to figure out what's going so awfully wrong in our training. Maybe the periodization is totally off, so the fitness level of the players doesn't peak at the right time, I don't know. It needs to change for next season though, no matter if this season ends in a treble or in a complete disaster (both is possible, most likely it'll be something inbetween though).

 

[Adebesi]

To be fair Guardiola reminds me a lot of SAF. Their management and style is different but there's something in them that make opposition fans hate them.

Really? Guardiola always strikes me as very calm, measured and likeable. I don't pay close attention so I may be missing something. But when he and Mourinho had their rivalry in Spain I thought Guardiola came out of that with great dignity and my regard for him enhanced, whereas Mourinho came out looking like even more of a tool than he already did.

I would have had Guardiola cut from a completely different managerial cloth to SAF, Mourinho or Clough. More like Ancelotti. Hard to dislike.

 

[Xaviesta]

Total overreaction as usual.

Firstly, Bayern will most likely turn Porto over at home. Even if they don't, why do people expect perfection? Bayern have no divine right to win every game they play at the top level. There are lots of very good players in all the teams left in the competition and any side can beat another on a given day.

We live in a world where some people try to denigrate Mourinho's record because he has gone W, SF, SF, SR in the competition in the past few seasons. It is ridiculous.

Bayern winning the return leg 2-0 or any scoreline that would send them through is still a distinct possibility. When Mourinho and or Guardiola get beat, people come flying out of the woodwork to try and cut them down and denigrat their achievements.

 

[devilish]

Really? Guardiola always strikes me as very calm, measured and likeable. I don't pay close attention so I may be missing something. But when he and Mourinho had their rivalry in Spain I thought Guardiola came out of that with great dignity and my regard for him enhanced, whereas Mourinho came out looking like even more of a tool than he already did.

I would have had Guardiola cut from a completely different managerial cloth to SAF, Mourinho or Clough. More like Ancelotti. Hard to dislike.

Its not about character (I was careful in removing him from the non likeable guys) but attitude towards the game. His style of football is hated by most people.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The goals Bayern conceded scream a team having it too easy in their domestic league, the pace of the game seemed too much for them.

If Guardiola does not win the CL with Bayern, giving how they seem to stroll through their league, will his tenure there be considered a relative failure?

The most CL wins by a single manager is 3.

Sir Alex Ferguson had 2.

Pep already has 2 in some 7/8 years in management. Winning it is a huge accomplishment that comes very very very rarely if ever in a top manager's career. It is a huge success to win the cl not a failure not to.

 

[Adebesi]

Its not about character (I was careful in removing him from the non likeable guys) but attitude towards the game. His style of football is hated by most people.

I see. But was SAF hated for his attitude to the game? Or Clough? These people were hated for their abrasive characters and because they were winners. I don't think people had a problem with their football did they?

 

[Adebesi]

It is a huge success to win the cl not a failure not to.

I cant imagine youd find many top managers who would agree with that. You dont think SAF would regard himself as a failure on some level if he hadnt ever won it? I even suspect he sees only having won it twice as a black mark on his career, hasnt he said as much?

 

[Distracted Steward]

Ill just copy paste from another thread.

Guardiola deserves a ton of credit for building that team. When he came in Barcelona had just finished 17 points behind Real Madrid and had barely qualified for Champions League. He immediately got rid of half the seniors, for which he was highly criticized at the time - Ronaldinho, Deco, Thuram, Zambrotta, Edmilson etc all sold off. He promoted Busquets, brought in Alves, Keita, Pique and gave Iniesta a fixed position on the left, who had been utilized as more of a handy man up till then. He also got Henry to perform who hadn't had a good first season. In his first year they won every trophy in club football. I hear people say their grandmorther would have won with that team but what they forget is Pep built that team with his own hands which required taking some ballsy big decisions for which he took a lot of heat in the beginning. He also got them to play like never before, tiki taka with pressing tactics.

I should be clear: Pep deserves credit for taking Barcelona to its heights, but I think that goes too far in his role.

The pressing work at La Mestia is pretty well documented. Same with ball work. The Barcelona way dates back to its original import. Pep made changes to perfect it for that team/generation of players. The core of Pep's team came through the ranks deeply imbued with those lessons.

He made brave personnel changes, but it was clear they were necessary. He had the mandate, the resources, and several class academy graduates ready for the step up.

I'm not saying Pep doesn't deserve credit, I'm saying he doesn't deserve all the credit. If it was a rebuild, it was on a ready made foundation. I just weigh it all and come to the conclusion he brilliantly tuned it and ran it. He didn't build it.

He was the right man, at the right time, with the right backing and a wave of world class players. His legendary Barça team was the product of a confluence of events. I'm just a little wary of putting to much on one man in a short window of time.

 

[Balu]

The most CL wins by a single manager is 3.

Sir Alex Ferguson had 2.

Pep already has 2 in some 7/8 years in management. Winning it is a huge accomplishment that comes very very very rarely if ever in a top manager's career. It is a huge success to win the cl not a failure not to.

Yeah, the expectations some people have are just silly.

A club like Juventus has only 2 CL/EC wins in their entire history despite all the fantastic teams they had. Bayern won the CL/EC twice in the last 39 years. Everyone who thinks it's easy to take over a team, that reached 3 CL finals in 4 years and won the CL the previous season, doesn't understand football. It's incredibly difficult to continue to dominate in Europe without a period of transition, especially at a time when so many top clubs invest so much money in top players every season.

When Guardiola took over, I wrote a post and said that if Guardiola wins 2 league titles and 1 CL in his first 3 years at the club it would be a fantastic achievement, yet I was laughed at. You could read, that it would be the minimum to expect and that he needs to win more for his stint at Bayern to be a success. It seems like people expect things from Guardiola that the greatest manager of all time didn't even come close to achieve. After all, when United reached 3 CL finals in 4 years, Ferguson followed it up with a group stage exit and a first knockout round exit. After United won the treble, they went out twice in the quarterfinals without winning a game. Maybe it isn't such an easy job after all.

 

[walkinhop]

He took a great Barcelona foundation. He took Bayern after a magnificent season. I want to see him going to Everton and winning the league in 3-4 years on a budget....

Eye, its easier to win when you have great players. Its easy to manage the top teams in otherwise miserable leagues without competition(much).

Not saying he is a bad manager but i think he is overrated and has gained some of his popularity on the back of great players(already at the club)

 

[devilish]

I see. But was SAF hated for his attitude to the game? Or Clough? These people were hated for their abrasive characters and because they were winners. I don't think people had a problem with their football did they?

I've met a lot of United fans who had problems with SAF's approach to football. I am not referring to the glory hunters but people whose stuck to the club for 40-50 years, they have spent every penny to go and watch them at a time Malta didn't fared too well and spent much of the time hounding the radio and tv for every scrap on news about the club while being taunted by Liverpool and the Italian clubs fans. The reason is that SAF was seen as the man who turned the club from a gentlemen's club (another word for a pub club) to a corporate monster who had distanced itself from its fans. They hate some of his decisions with a passion especially the one that saw the team moving from the cliff to 'Fort Knox' (Carrington). I am a critic of SAF myself but some of the hatred I've heard about the man shocked me and can get quite personal.

On the other hand I kind of understand them. They are used to meet with players like George Best and have a drink with him until every one black out and they end up sleeping in his hotel room. Can you imagine how these people must feel when they meet the modern type of player who keeps a safe distance from the fans?

Nevertheless a substantial number of fans hated some of his aspects of his football especially towards the end of his career were he is often accused of letting sentimentalism and 'value' taking over his better judgement.

 

[devilish]

1

I should be clear: Pep deserves credit for taking Barcelona to its heights, but I think that goes too far in his role.

The pressing work at La Mestia is pretty well documented. Same with ball work. The Barcelona way dates back to its original import. Pep made changes to perfect it for that team/generation of players. The core of Pep's team came through the ranks deeply imbued with those lessons.

He made brave personnel changes, but it was clear they were necessary. He had the mandate, the resources, and several class academy graduates ready for the step up.

I'm not saying Pep doesn't deserve credit, I'm saying he doesn't deserve all the credit. If it was a rebuild, it was on a ready made foundation. I just weigh it all and come to the conclusion he brilliantly tuned it and ran it. He didn't build it.

He was the right man, at the right time, with the right backing and a wave of world class players. His legendary Barça team was the product of a confluence of events. I'm just a little wary of putting to much on one man in a short window of time.

Shouldn't we have the same attitude towards the likes of Capello and Paisley though? Both inherited magnificent sides from their predecessors. What about Maureen? He fluked it with Porto (he shouldn't have won the CL there) and then built a reputation for winning with clubs who spent ridiculous money on their team. His teams crumbled as soon as he left because he is often accused for not building on solid foundations.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I cant imagine youd find many top managers who would agree with that. You dont think SAF would regard himself as a failure on some level if he hadnt ever won it? I even suspect he sees only having won it twice as a black mark on his career, hasnt he said as much?

That's Sir Alex Ferguso, and what he expects from himself. You and me can't go around calling managers who don't win the very biggest prize in club football failures. Wenger hasn't won one. I'm sure it hurts him, but he's a great manager regardless. Simeone and klopp may never, but they've still achieved great things.

Besides, the larger point is that not winning the cl is not as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Pep hasn't won it for 4 seasons. Jose hasn't won it for 5. The most anyone has won is 3. Just shows how rare winning it really is, even for the very best.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He took a great Barcelona foundation. He took Bayern after a magnificent season. I want to see him going to Everton and winning the league in 3-4 years on a budget....

Eye, its easier to win when you have great players. Its easy to manage the top teams in otherwise miserable leagues without competition(much).

Not saying he is a bad manager but i think he is overrated and has gained some of his popularity on the back of great players(already at the club)

He's not an idiot.

Imagine Mourinho and guardiola in charge of Everton and Southampton.

Let's put big Sam and pardew and barca and real while we're at it.

 

[RooneyLegend]

His stuff is outdated, don't want him here after he's finally done tearing Jupp's machine apart.

 

[devilish]

He took a great Barcelona foundation. He took Bayern after a magnificent season. I want to see him going to Everton and winning the league in 3-4 years on a budget....

Eye, its easier to win when you have great players. Its easy to manage the top teams in otherwise miserable leagues without competition(much).

Not saying he is a bad manager but i think he is overrated and has gained some of his popularity on the back of great players(already at the club)

Well Moyes managed to do well with Everton on a budget. We all know how it ended with us don't we? Some managers are magnificent with the small clubs. They can spot a decent talent from miles away, they are patient with kids and they are capable to build some defensive sound sides who are difficult to crack. However put them under pressure of having to win some real silverware and face world class players and they melt like ice cream in the Sahara desert. We all remember the 'why cant you play like Jaglieka?' argument towards Rio dont we? Not to forget Moyes face when he finally some silverware. Inspiring isn't it?

Others are suited for the big clubs. Pressure doesn't effect them, they thrive to be in the spotlight and have a knack in dealing with people with great egos. If you sent them to manage Everton they would resign immediately because the club is boring, their ambition is crap and they cant attract the players to reach the top spot.

 

[Pexbo]

His stuff is outdated, don't want him here after he's finally done tearing Jupp's machine apart.

Guardiola's methods are outdated?

 

[Adebesi]

I've met a lot of United fans who had problems with SAF's approach to football. I am not referring to the glory hunters but people whose stuck to the club for 40-50 years, they have spent every penny to go and watch them at a time Malta didn't fared too well and spent much of the time hounding the radio and tv for every scrap on news about the club while being taunted by Liverpool and the Italian clubs fans. The reason is that SAF was seen as the man who turned the club from a gentlemen's club (another word for a pub club) to a corporate monster who had distanced itself from its fans. They hate some of his decisions with a passion especially the one that saw the team moving from the cliff to 'Fort Knox' (Carrington). I am a critic of SAF myself but some of the hatred I've heard about the man shocked me and can get quite personal.

On the other hand I kind of understand them. They are used to meet with players like George Best and have a drink with him until every one black out and they end up sleeping in his hotel room. Can you imagine how these people must feel when they meet the modern type of player who keeps a safe distance from the fans?

Nevertheless a substantial number of fans hated some of his aspects of his football especially towards the end of his career were he is often accused of letting sentimentalism and 'value' taking over his better judgement.

Blaming SAF or any manager individually for the transformation football has undergone in the last few decades is idiotic. Personally I would discount the views of any of these kind of fans I met. No disrespect to anyone who has been following the club for longer than Ive been alive, they are entitled to their opinions, just as Im entitled to ignore them.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah, the expectations some people have are just silly.

A club like Juventus has only 2 CL/EC wins in their entire history despite all the fantastic teams they had. Bayern won the CL/EC twice in the last 39 years. Everyone who thinks it's easy to take over a team, that reached 3 CL finals in 4 years and won the CL the previous season, doesn't understand football. It's incredibly difficult to continue to dominate in Europe without a period of transition, especially at a time when so many top clubs invest so much money in top players every season.

When Guardiola took over, I wrote a post and said that if Guardiola wins 2 league titles and 1 CL in his first 3 years at the club it would be a fantastic achievement, yet I was laughed at. You could read, that it would be the minimum to expect and that he needs to win more for his stint at Bayern to be a success. It seems like people expect things from Guardiola that the greatest manager of all time didn't even come close to achieve. After all, when United reached 3 CL finals in 4 years, Ferguson followed it up with a group stage exit and a first knockout round exit. After United won the treble, they went out twice in the quarterfinals without winning a game. Maybe it isn't such an easy job after all.

It's all very knee jerk and opportunist. We apply one standard to those we like and another to those we don't.

His stuff is outdated, don't want him here after he's finally done tearing Jupp's machine apart.

You're basically saying that :

I) he's not the the flavour of the week

II) he had some role in dortmunds self destruction

Lolwut?

 

[Adebesi]

That's Sir Alex Ferguso, and what he expects from himself. You and me can't go around calling managers who don't win the very biggest prize in club football failures. Wenger hasn't won one. I'm sure it hurts him, but he's a great manager regardless. Simeone and klopp may never, but they've still achieved great things.

Besides, the larger point is that not winning the cl is not as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Pep hasn't won it for 4 seasons. Jose hasn't won it for 5. The most anyone has won is 3. Just shows how rare winning it really is, even for the very best.

Point taken. I think history will certainly use CL success as a filter. Yes Wenger is a great manager but will be be remembered alongside Mourinho, Ferguson, Guardiola, Ancelotti? I dont think so personally.

I guess it comes down to shades of greatness.

 

[Distracted Steward]

Shouldn't we have the same attitude towards the likes of Capello and Paisley though? Both inherited magnificent sides from their predecessors. What about Maureen? He fluked it with Porto (he shouldn't have won the CL there) and then built a reputation for winning with clubs who spent ridiculous money on their team. His teams crumbled as soon as he left because he is often accused for not building on solid foundations.

Honestly, I'm just not as familiar with those examples. I don't think I could fairly compare them.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Point taken. I think history will certainly use CL success as a filter. Yes Wenger is a great manager but will be be remembered alongside Mourinho, Ferguson, Guardiola, Ancelotti? I dont think so personally.

I guess it comes down to shades of greatness.

Oh absolutely.

But I think that's where one has to individually apply some perspective too. Ancelotti is a fine manager and he could end up with 4 European titles, but at the same time, his league record for a manager who has managed big clubs is quite poor. Similarly, I rate someone's one la liga higher than multiple big trophies others have achieved. Guardiola doesn't strike me as someone who will win as much as the record setters. But he could well influence the game even more and create teams of a higher level.

They will all be judged by public perception on numbers but one must look beyond that as well.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Honestly, I'm just not as familiar with those examples. I don't think I could fairly compare them.

Maureen is Mourinho.

He he

 

[devilish]

Blaming SAF or any manager individually for the transformation football has undergone in the last few decades is idiotic. Personally I would discount the views of any of these kind of fans I met. No disrespect to anyone who has been following the club for longer than Ive been alive, they are entitled to their opinions, just as Im entitled to ignore them.

I agree of course. Having said that, successful managers can attract hatred especially if their ideas revolutionized football. Many hated the catenaccio system and the managers utilizing/perfecting it despite being immensely successful at its time. Guardiola had contributed to another football system people love to hate ie tic tac football. SAF's revolution was more on a top managerial level and he attracts hatred/envy for the changes he brought to football.

 

[Adebesi]

Oh absolutely.

But I think that's where one has to individually apply some perspective too. Ancelotti is a fine manager and he could end up with 4 European titles, but at the same time, his league record for a manager who has managed big clubs is quite poor. Similarly, I rate someone's one la liga higher than multiple big trophies others have achieved. Guardiola doesn't strike me as someone who will win as much as the record setters. But he could well influence the game even more and create teams of a higher level.

They will all be judged by public perception on numbers but one must look beyond that as well.

Agreed. It will inevitably pan out that way, anyway. You never get consensus in football. In 20 years time people will be on message boards arguing about who was better, Mourinho or Guardiola, Ancelotti or Wenger etc, there will be people on both sides. The numbers are rarely definitive.

 

[united_99]

SAF didn't win 2 in 26 years, but in 20 years! As magical as he was even he couldn't manage to win a competition he wasn't even in. He did win us another European competition though in his first year he was competing for that with United.

Anyway CL is a tough trophy and most clubs which win it even need a bit of luck or refs help either in the final or in the semis (yes including Pep). I wouldn't say his time at Bayern is a failure without a CL trophy, but if ppl call Mourinho's RM time a failure for the same reason then Pep's time at Bayern should be regarded as one too in their eyes (if he doesn't win it).

Anyway I am not surprised by his CL showings with Bayern, I know he has the potential to "make a clown of himself" in at least 1-2 big games every season and yes that can be important CL games. But that applies to every top manager.
I would still take him at United as I would rather have such a great manager at our club than not.

 

[Adebesi]

I agree of course. Having said that, successful managers can attract hatred especially if their ideas revolutionized football. Many hated the catenaccio system and the managers utilizing/perfecting it despite being immensely successful at its time. Guardiola had contributed to another system people love to hate, the tic tac.

I see. I understand what you are saying now. Still, the link you are making between Guardiola's tica taca and Ferguson or Clough more generally modernising the way their clubs were run or dominating the game in their respective periods still strikes me as a bit tenuous. As I said before, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I still cant really see the similarity between Guardiola and Ferguson. One is a very humble, likeable guy who pioneered a way of playing that changed football and divided opinion, as you say. The other was more like a pantomime villain who people outside the club despised, partly for the success he brought his team (and denied theirs) but also because he built a seige mentality at the club, more or less inviting hatred, treating it like fuel to power that success. SAF didnt pioneer a style of playing. The link between them I see is that they are at the top of the game. But they seemed to ascend to the pinnacle in very different ways.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Really? Guardiola always strikes me as very calm, measured and likeable. I don't pay close attention so I may be missing something. But when he and Mourinho had their rivalry in Spain I thought Guardiola came out of that with great dignity and my regard for him enhanced, whereas Mourinho came out looking like even more of a tool than he already did.

I would have had Guardiola cut from a completely different managerial cloth to SAF, Mourinho or Clough. More like Ancelotti. Hard to dislike.

Guardiola deserves all the hate in the world for pushing his team to dive, fake injuries and swarm the referees. He more or less epitomizes everything that is wrong with the rules of modern football.

That said he deserves even more credit than he gets for what he has done with Barcelona, and Bayern for that regard. His two best players are out injured right now and that is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of their injuries. He's winning the league having conceded 13 goals so far. Still in the run for the cup and even if he goes out now in the CL it is in the quarters.

When SAF takes us to the round of 16, no cup and the league we sheer him on for being a genius. When Guardiola does the same he's considered the biggest loser in the world and unworthy of coming here.

It is really rare that people can keep a great side to the same height after the key players declines so I expect him to struggle with results in the future too if he can't pull it off this year or the next. Ribery(32) and Robben(31) are already pushing the boundaries of just how great wingers can be at those ages. Lahm and Schweinsteiger will be 32-33 next season.

Obviously he is not perfect, nobody is, Mourinho just got sent out even earlier than Guardiola. Ancelotti lost the league last year and seems like he will be losing it this year again. Klopp has had a complete nightmare season so his stocks are surely much lower, Blanc has failed to lead PSG to a comfortable league win in and he's clinging on to a good CL run as the only thing to make up for it if they don't win the league.

People like criticizing Guardiola without any reference points, except for Heynckes team, because when you bring other managers in to it you realize even a bad season from Guardiola is of a pretty damn high standard.

Which of the top managers are having a better season than Guardiola? Simeone is struggling with top 3 but with the team he has it is a great season still with the CL in mind too. Luis Enrique has been ridiculed all season more or less until just recently for his tactical inability and so on.

 

[Distracted Steward]

Maureen is Mourinho.

He he

Makes sense now!

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I'm not saying Pep doesn't deserve credit, I'm saying he doesn't deserve all the credit. If it was a rebuild, it was on a ready made foundation. I just weigh it all and come to the conclusion he brilliantly tuned it and ran it. He didn't build it.

He was the right man, at the right time, with the right backing and a wave of world class players. His legendary Barça team was the product of a confluence of events. I'm just a little wary of putting to much on one man in a short window of time.

I don't agree completely. He might not have layed the foundations, both Barca and Bayern are clearly his buildings in style and appearance. He's the kind of manager that's influential to the max, he's not the hands off kind, but really has his teams carrying his personal signature. I like that in a manager.

It's his style itself that I think is overestimated. I don't think it makes his teams much stronger than the sum of all parts. It can look very superior against much weaker opposition, but turns out to be not that strong against good opposition. It's like a heavyweight beating the hell out of dwarfs in great style, but struggling against his own size or slightly smaller. I think Barca needed a lot of luck to make it to all those finals with by far the best group of players, and Bayern failed last year against strong opposition, and is in trouble against a decent team now. I just don't think his style makes a team stronger against good opposition, the need to keep possession takes the sting out of players not as good as Messi and Iniesta.

 

[Sarni]

Bayern winning the return leg 2-0 or any scoreline that would send them through is still a distinct possibility. When Mourinho and or Guardiola get beat, people come flying out of the woodwork to try and cut them down and denigrat their achievements.

David Moyes overcame a 2-goal deficit in last year's Champions League. It was tactical masterstroke though which we didn't think he was capable of.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Guardiola deserves all the hate in the world for pushing his team to dive, fake injuries and swarm the referees. He more or less epitomizes everything that is wrong with the rules of modern football.

.

 

[Xaviesta]

David Moyes overcame a 2-goal deficit in last year's Champions League. It was tactical masterstroke though which we didn't think he was capable of.

didn't Moyes carry on as of he himself was responsible for United progressing into the Quarter Finals?

 

[RooneyLegend]

Guardiola's methods are outdated?

Yes, and have been for some time. Way too vulnerable to teams of any quality.

 

[RooneyLegend]

I) he's not the the flavour of the week

II) he had some role in dortmunds self destruction

Lolwut?

What do flavour of the weeks have to do with anything? And where did I mention anything about Dortmund?

The fact is this way of playing has been figured out and is very vulnerable to teams that are set out well tactically. The high line and the obsession with passing out from the back has always been a disaster waiting to happen and now its consequences become more glaring season to season.

Its an idealistic nature of playing the game. Basically allowing your team to be tactically naïve, committing the whole team forward with the believe the opposition won't have the capability of passing out from the back. Question is, what to do when the opposition passing out is good enough to beat the press...he hasn't even looked close to finding the answer for that question.

Its almost as if his players are programmed to pass the ball out regardless of situation. This leads to a lot of problems if the opposition aim to press high from the goalkick which is where they continuously get caught out.

Funny enough all teams like porto are doing v these tactics is the same thing that ended up with barca getting turned over 7-1, bayern getting a 5-1 and spain being bulldozed by brazil but somehow people still think this stuff could and will work again at some point.

Bayern didn't just lose last night, they barely looked a threat and that's been the case vs some of the bundesliga heavy hitters

I take the point that bayern were decimated by injuries but the fact is if you offered the porto coach an option between the two sets of players last night...he'd be a madman to take his own.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Good manager but I do not rate him as high as e.g. Klopp, Mourinho or meanwhile LvG. Yesterday`s game showed again his weakness to adopt the playing style if necessary.
He gets praised for winning titles and right so.
However, even Moyes would have easily won the league taking over THIS Bayern side from Heynckes - and this is no joke.

 

[Mojo_]

Dare I say Pep's success as a coach has come from the "philosophy"? He's followed in LVG's footsteps twice now and has been incredibly successful, you think he may go to Utd when LVG retires? It seems like a natural step in a sense. Just dreaming I guess.