Herrera against Chelesa: Dive or Foul?

[Mindhunter]

I said previously, but yes that is probably the definition of a dive by the letter of the law, however in practice it can be expanded.

If an attacker deliberately makes contact with a defender, for the pure aim of drawing a foul/penalty, then is that fair play?
If an attacker goes down very easily from minimal contact when they could easily have stayed on their feet, is that fair play?

It doesnt matter whether you call it a dive or something else, for me the answer to both questions is "no" and both should be punishable by a yellow card.

In the Herrera incident, freeze frames do not show what happened. In realtime, and when watching the replays, it was obvious that Herrera left his trailing foot dangling and stuck it out a bit in order to make contact with Cahill - and as soon as he felt the contact he threw himself to the ground in quite an unnatural fashion. It wasnt a foul, it wasnt a penalty, Herrera deserved to be booked - just accept it and move on.

Since we are discussing about this in the Herrera thread, I thought maybe a separate thread will be easier.

Here is the question -

Did Herrara dive? If no, then was it a foul/penalty? There is the third and most unlikely option that Herrera didn't mean to do it and neither was it a foul.

Here is my two pence -

If you have seen the match and the replay, it was clear as ice that Herrera engineered the contact deliberately when he could have easily avoided it and got booked for it. It is understandable though since Chelsea were playing very compact and narrow and we rarely had any chances in spite of 70% possession. I hope he doesn't make a habit out of it. It is extremely difficult to respect such professionals to cheat on the field.

 

[BD]

Dive.

 

[Rozay]

Let's not embarrass ourselves. It was dive.

 

[RedRover]

Definate dive for me.

 

[Walrus]

I dont really have too much to add than what I said in that previous post of mine quoted in the OP.

Maybe they need to make up a new word or term for engineering contact/going down with minimal contact etc, since "diving" isnt quite accurate.

 

[prarek]

Both.

 

[Raptori]

Dive. It's understandable in that kind of situation, but I was still disappointed that he did it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It was a dive, obviously.

 

[Mojo_]

I've seen them given.....but yeah he played for it.

 

[SirAF]

Clear dive, but I don't mind rolling the dice in that situation at that time of the match.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well done for starting a new thread, by the way. Correct decision.

 

[bosnian_red]

Dive but it would have been given as a foul if it was outside the box and probably as a pen if it wasn't the last touch of the game where the ref expects to see a dive coming... So yeah, right decision but if you could read Dean's mind it was probably given as a dive for the wrong reason, because it looked a clear foul from his angle and only from the front angle (where Dean wasn't) you could see that it was a dive and Herrera making the contact.

 

[Raoul]

Ander was fishing for a penalty.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Dive - but it was against Chelsea so can't blame him

 

[Raptori]

Well done for starting a new thread, by the way. Correct decision.

Agree. Could do with a poll though. @Damien @Raoul @Zarlak @brewlio @Rado_N

 

[Zarlak]

Sorry, I'm not a mains mod.

 

[bishblaize]

Dive all day long. What's to discuss?

 

[|Neo|x]

It was a clear dive, a great attempt at one, but a dive nevertheless.

 

[Raoul]

Agree. Could do with a poll though. @Damien @Raoul @Zarlak @brewlio @Rado_N

Done

 

[Rado_N]

Bah, someone beat me to it, mine was going to be funny.

 

[Raptori]

Done

Brilliant, thanks!

 

[SiRed]

No need for a poll. Its unanimous

 

[Empire]

I didn't think it was a penalty but then I thought the tackle on Falcao that led to Chelsea's goal was a foul so what do I know.

 

[Glanville95]

Herrera initiated the contact which Cahill. Not really up for discussion as it's an obvious dive.

 

[Varun]

Clear dive. Would have loved it if we got a pen against Mourinho's Chelsea.

 

[SirAF]

I didn't think it was a penalty but then I thought the tackle on Falcao that led to Chelsea's goal was a foul so what do I know.

It was.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It's 100%, absolutely, unequivocally a dive.

And a fabulous one at that.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

come on it was a dive , lets not try and kid ourselves it was anything else, he was trying to get the point, but just looked stupid.

 

[RobinLFC]

Didn't Van Gaal say after the game it was a definite penalty? Our Belgian pundits mentioned something about it. If so, that's a silly thing to do. Just admit it was a dive and get on with it.

 

[brewlio]

Worst thread ever.

Well done.

 

[GDaly95]

I can't believe this thread exists.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Nailed on pen and a red for Terry.

 

[gza the genius]

It was a pretty good dive in fairness, I was livid about not getting a penalty before I got a chance to see the replay. But yeah it's clear as day he moves his leg over to make it so there was contact and it was definitely the right call.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Cahill was clever that he looked like he was going to smash the ball out of the park, and Herrera knew he would get there first. He hung his leg there waiting for the contact but then Cahill pulled out, making it look even worse than it was going to be. No excuses really he went for it and got caught.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Didn't Van Gaal say after the game it was a definite penalty? Our Belgian pundits mentioned something about it. If so, that's a silly thing to do. Just admit it was a dive and get on with it.

what else did you expect him to say to TV, hopefully he gave him a right bollocking in the dressing room.

 

[Ødegaard]

Can't call it dive, as he was clearly taken by the opponent, but he was only taken because he himself instigated the situation - hence he tried to cheat the referee and was correctly awarded a yellow card.

 

[RobinLFC]

what else did you expect him to say to TV, hopefully he gave him a right bollocking in the dressing room.

I know I might not be in my right to talk about coaches saying ridiculous things in post match interviews given that Rodgers does it as well but I'd want LvG to admit that it was a clear dive. I'm all for defending your players in public but not if it makes you look stupid and affects your credibility as a coach. It's not Mourinho we're talking about here..

 

[Raptori]

I know I might not be in my right to talk about coaches saying ridiculous things in post match interviews given that Rodgers does it as well but I'd want LvG to admit that it was a clear dive. I'm all for defending your players in public but not if it makes you look stupid and affects your credibility as a coach. It's not Mourinho we're talking about here..

Yeah I agree with that. Didn't hear the post-match comments, but if he's said that after seeing a replay then that's disappointing. You should defend your players, but I'd draw the line at cheating.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

I know I might not be in my right to talk about coaches saying ridiculous things in post match interviews given that Rodgers does it as well but I'd want LvG to admit that it was a clear dive. I'm all for defending your players in public but not if it makes you look stupid and affects your credibility as a coach. It's not Mourinho we're talking about here..

You are right , the after match interview LvG gave was just strange.

 

[Mindhunter]

I know I might not be in my right to talk about coaches saying ridiculous things in post match interviews given that Rodgers does it as well but I'd want LvG to admit that it was a clear dive. I'm all for defending your players in public but not if it makes you look stupid and affects your credibility as a coach. It's not Mourinho we're talking about here..

Completely agree with that. He shouldn't have called it as a penalty. Maybe just dismiss it as a indiscretion from the player in the heat of the moment. This is the same as claiming Gerrard was excellent in the FA Cup quarters.