@AttackingFlair I've applauded his longevity for many times, it's quite impressive to reach a quite decent level every season without having a 'blackout' or a season where everything just goes wrong. I think it's rather his capability to get to a decent standard every single season than his pure ability that will get him the all time topscorers list. He still has just managed to score over 20 league goals just twice in over 10 years. For a United forward that isnt extraordinary, what is extra ordinary is that at the very least, Rooney scores 12 PL every single season, with or without injuries, with or without playing striker for a whole season, that's the minimum he'll get you. And he deserves credit for that. But when we talk about United forwards at their very peak in the past 20 years. For me Cantona, Ronaldo, Yorke, Cole, RvN, and arguably Rvp come ahead of him.
What to do with Wayne Rooney?
- Thread starter Walrus
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I am not going to pretend to have a crystal memory of every match and every season Rooney has played, but you are exaggerating when you say that Rooney's season "pisses all over anything Hazard has done". Rooney has had some very good goalscoring seasons for us yes, 09/10 and 11/12, but aside from those two he has never reached 20 league goals in a season, and I do not feel that he ever carried us in the same way that players like Aguero, Suarez, Hazard (you can even extend this to Messi and Ronaldo) have carried their teams. You can argue that that is because we didnt need to be carried, but Rooney simply hasnt stood out often enough. Again, other than 9/10 he has never looked like being one of the best players in the league for me.
I didnt say that he doesnt have good qualities, and his all-round game is better than most dedicated strikers, but I dont think the qualities you have listed really "stand out". If you were listing players for their football brain, passing and finishing, Rooney would be quite a way down the list.
Either way, regardless of all of this, do you/we think he is capable of replicating his 9/10 standards? I dont - I think he has peaked physically and is on the decline. He is obviously still a good player, but 'good' isnt enough to be our talisman, our captain, and the person to be our undisputed #1 striker in effectively the new team LVG is assembling.
I also share @Sammyjunn 's sentiments.
Sell him.
For a neutral the Caf is sometimes a weird place. There are players, who will never be rated as high outside the Caf as in here(I won´t name names here in an attempt to not derail the thread) and then there is the case Wayne Rooney. I get that he is not the favourite of a lot of people on here because he dared to contemplate leaving the club, being concerned about the strength of the squad or being on massive wages, but it shouldn´t cloud the judgement of the people that much to not see what kind of blessing the player has been on the pitch for the club.
This can actually be put very clearly in numbers: Excluding last season, when Van Gaal clearly did not figure out where to play him, he had in every season since 2005a scorer/minute ratio of at least around 100. In some seasons (e.g. 2013/2014 and 2011/2012) he got as low as around 80. That basically means, that even if we include the last season Wayne Rooney has on average scored either an assist or a goal in every single game for a decade.
Several world class strikers manage to get similar numbers. Some do it for a season, some for two, very few for longer. Rooney does it for ten years, while often playing the void filler in the offensive midfield, the wing or on occasion even the central midfield.
Rooney is also more than about scoring. He is a well balanced offensive allrounder with next to no glaring weaknesses, an impressive football intelligence, a rock solid passing game (especially for a striker) and strong overall technique. On top of that he is one of the most hard working strikers around, clearly caring about the success of the team.
I honestly think that if Rooney would be playing for a different club and United would be linked with him the muppets would go overboard in his transfer thread.
I´m absolutely positive that if Rooney would finally be constantly trusted with his natural role as center forward, he could still be scoring 25+ goals per season and additionally assist half of that. And that is more than what can be said of nearly every possible solution on the transfer market.
It´s kinda sad to see that a portion (probably a small one, though) of the United supporter don´t regard him as the legend he is. I know for sure, that I could not shut up about Reus, if he would stay as long and score like that for such a huge amount of time.
Hear hear.
What a strange post. Rooney did far more in the 09/10 season than Hazard has this season. It's not even particularly close.
This place has gone nuts if people now rate Yorke and Cole ahead of Rooney. RVN was the better scorer but Rooney was clearly a better than him as well. Rooney and RVP are probably level at their peaks but again Rooney has had a far better career. We'll be arguing about Rooney vs Owen in a few years at this rate.
Rooney is great but definitely not level with RVP at his peak.
As a striker also not as good as RVN but a better all round player
He definitely is. They are both different strikers with different strengths so hard to compare but on a pure statistical basis at least they are neck and neck for their peak seasons.
Ok maybe based on statistics for goal scoring, however I don't think he is on RVPs peak level, just my opinion mind you. I think if RVP was at United most of his career (and stayed fit) he would have threatened the EPL goal scoring record, his peak is incredible, shame we only had it (or close to it) for 1 season
Saying that Rooney is a fantastic player too
Good post @Sphaero
Rooney will be 30 in October, and I honestly feel his best days are behind him. This inherent problem is that while Rooney is here, he is almost definitely going to play. Why is this a problem? If he is in good form as a #9, it isnt, but if he is in bad form, or if we buy another striker to compete with him for a place in the first XI, it is.
My own opinion is not that we should be trying to sell Rooney (although frankly I wouldnt really be bothered if we did), but rather that he is in danger of becoming to us what Raul eventually was at Madrid - someone who is deemed such a club legend that they are played regardless of any other factors. We should be in the market for a new striker this summer in my opinion, and that should be a striker who is capable of challenging for the first XI and competing with Rooney, and someone young enough that they have a future at the club. Basically what I am trying to say is that at the moment Rooney seems to be undroppable and unbenchable - and therein lies the problem. He earns too much and has too high a status to be willing to sit on the bench, which means we are consigned to playing him out of position to the detriment of the team.
Perhaps my memory is getting worse then, but I dont remember Rooney being such a game winner for us as other players that have been mentioned. More importantly however is what his prospects are going forwards, which was the point of the thread, rather than debating how good a player he has been for us.
Rooney will be 30 in October, and I honestly feel his best days are behind him. This inherent problem is that while Rooney is here, he is almost definitely going to play. Why is this a problem? If he is in good form as a #9, it isnt, but if he is in bad form, or if we buy another striker to compete with him for a place in the first XI, it is.
My own opinion is not that we should be trying to sell Rooney (although frankly I wouldnt really be bothered if we did), but rather that he is in danger of becoming to us what Raul eventually was at Madrid - someone who is deemed such a club legend that they are played regardless of any other factors. We should be in the market for a new striker this summer in my opinion, and that should be a striker who is capable of challenging for the first XI and competing with Rooney, and someone young enough that they have a future at the club. Basically what I am trying to say is that at the moment Rooney seems to be undroppable and unbenchable - and therein lies the problem. He earns too much and has too high a status to be willing to sit on the bench, which means we are consigned to playing him out of position to the detriment of the team.
Pretty much.
Well if RvP is off as seems to be the case we're going to need Rooney up top. Even if we were to get a new striker in I see Rooney as vital to this coming season.
If Schneiderlein signs and RVP leaves, than it pretty firmly suggests LVG is going 433 from now on. He has loads of players for the two wings (Depay, Januzaj, Di Maria, Mata, Young), decent options for the MF 3 (Carrick, Scheiderlein, Herrera, Fellaini, Mata) but only really 1 'starter' for the striker position - Rooney. Wilson is unproven and tbh, didn't exactly light it up when he did play. Hernandez is broken and presumably will leave. And that just leaves Rooney unless we're signing someone else.
Basically the last 4 months + off season activity strongly suggest Rooney's going to be the lone striker when he's fit. Which is good and will put to the test the theory that he'd score 20 if stuck up top.
Personally I thought he was showing his age last season - making fewer runs and getting into fewer positions to score, but at least he'll have a chance to prove himself again.
Basically the last 4 months + off season activity strongly suggest Rooney's going to be the lone striker when he's fit. Which is good and will put to the test the theory that he'd score 20 if stuck up top.
Personally I thought he was showing his age last season - making fewer runs and getting into fewer positions to score, but at least he'll have a chance to prove himself again.
We will need him to play up front, behind the striker and probably in midfield which is basically no different from any of the last 4-5 seasons. Rooney has peaked and he isn't as good as the top strikers in the league but he is still a Good player who will score and assist more goals than pretty much every other player in the squad and there are bigger problems than him like how to get the likes of mata and di Maria performing to the levels they were at before we signed them and making sure we aren't reliant on limited players like young and fellaini.
It looks like RVP is moving on so we must be going to sign a striker but I doubt we will be getting anyone who is top class and if someone does come in and take that role then Rooney will probably play instead of fellaini behind them so that is an improvement.
It looks like RVP is moving on so we must be going to sign a striker but I doubt we will be getting anyone who is top class and if someone does come in and take that role then Rooney will probably play instead of fellaini behind them so that is an improvement.
The key word LVG has used all of last season was balance, If RVP does leave and its Rooney as the main striker there's no more of this play Rooney in midfield just to have him on the pitch and will do exactly that. Bring more balance to the team.
The question then is are you comfortable going into next season with Rooney is pretty much our only experienced striker? (Assuming RVP and Hernandez leave).
Assuming the answer is 'no' - what calibre of striker would you want us to bring in? Someone who can compete and potentially displace Rooney? Or a lesser striker who is happy to be second choice (which could be a big hindrance if Rooney gets injured)?
Falcao gone, RvP is likely to leave soon as well. So Wayne will play up top, with Wilson and Chicha as subs. I can see Wayne banging 20+ goals next season, if we do indeed buy Schneiderlin.
We have to bring someone in and it has to be someone who can compete with or displace Rooney but I don't see anyone available who would definitely do that and if they do it's a good problem to have and it's up to mata, di Maria, fellaini etc to then displace Rooney elsewhere and so far since joining none of them look capable of doing that.
I do not share your opinion of Rooney's midfield performances. He was wasteful and slow in possession for me. He needs to play as a striker or not at all.
Why can't you ever come up with one?
I don't think he is a great midfielder but none of the others have been for us either and until players are out performing Rooney as a 9,10 or anywhere else he isn't a problem, no doubt it will happen at some point (especially given the length of the contract we gave him) but he is good enough to start still at this point in time.
Do we have a vice captain for when Rooney and Carrick are inevitably out for a few weeks?
Smalling
Funny story - I decided to take everybody off my ignore list yesterday to see if there were any threads worth reading that I had missed out on.
So congratulations, you lasted nearly 24 hours.
Still waiting...I think pretty much all our other midfield options are vastly preferable to Rooney. (Carrick Blind, Herrera, Fellaini, Mata, Di Maria)
Ramos
One can only hope.Ramos
Rooney has been our main heartbeat since Keane left, and on here gets way too much stick.
Ferguson bought him and made him untouchable, Mourinho tried to poach him, LVG made him captain and he plays whether he's in form or not no matter what manager he's playing for.
That's a good enough for me.
Ferguson bought him and made him untouchable, Mourinho tried to poach him, LVG made him captain and he plays whether he's in form or not no matter what manager he's playing for.
That's a good enough for me.
Rooney's an odd and frustrating player and I agree, that him being our talisman is disappointing but, as we have for a few years now, we have bigger problems elsewhere. I'd say keep him for now and see where we are in 2 years.
Play him behind the striker. He was twice as good there last season as Mata was.
If di Maria shapes up he can have it.
Though I think he can still play up front successfully. Just depends on tactics and formation.
If di Maria shapes up he can have it.
Though I think he can still play up front successfully. Just depends on tactics and formation.
He needs competition from an emerging younger striker, like Lacazette.
play him as an out an out striker.
simple.
simple.
Colleen is pregnant with their third child. Now we can really turn the screw. It's a fact that as a man acquires more family he is more easily held ransom to. Clause up his contract with performance-related demands.
That's not how contracts work. He already has one up to 2018/19.
Done.
People made it seems that scoring 20+ goals is the end of it all. Scoring 20+ as a single striker in the 433 is nothing to be grand off, it's minimum requirement for a supposedly "world class" player. The striker has to be on fire every game, going off the steam for a few games a season could very well be the difference between 4th and 1st. Put Giroud / Sturidge / Kane and any other half decent mid-top striker they'll score pretty much 20 goals.
Rooney will win golden boot in the BPL next season
A thread from the newbie MU forum y'day. Either overly optimistic or a wum.
A thread from the newbie MU forum y'day. Either overly optimistic or a wum.
I agree - my concern is what happens if the new striker outperforms him. I dont want to see Rooney playing midfield or out wide unless in a drastic injury crisis, and I am not convinced that either Rooney or LVG will be content to bench him regularly either.
Same old story with him.
1. Use of past statistics to justify his current worth; misrepresentation
2. Not good enough for midfield / playmaking
3. Excuse after excuse made
4. Has to play up front or not at all.
5. The 20 goal myth. He's only done it twice.
1. Use of past statistics to justify his current worth; misrepresentation
2. Not good enough for midfield / playmaking
3. Excuse after excuse made
4. Has to play up front or not at all.
5. The 20 goal myth. He's only done it twice.