All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: SF - Skizzo/Pat vs Gio/Theon

[Gio]

What we need to remember here that this is a 19-22 year old Wayne Bridge. Classic converted winger - good overlapper, tidy on the ball, but is he defensively strong enough for a draft semi-final amongst this sort of company?

Good example of Wayne Bridge's time at Southampton. 6-1 defeat to Arsenal. Bridge sets up Southampton's only goal with a nice cross, but five of Arsenal's six goals come from the Southampton left-back area, while his direct opponent Jermaine Pennant grabs a hat-trick. That's Pennant scoring the only goals of his entire Arsenal spell - in a career where he's scored just 19 over the space of 16 years.


Or this defending almost straight from the kick-off against Manchester United (yes that's the hottest goalscorer in Europe you're donating 10 yards of space to):

Or how about this against Shearer's Newcastle getting rinsed effortlessly by Kieron Dyer:

Or falling asleep from this throw-in against Villa:


A promising player who, as is almost inevitable at that age, was a naive defender and made plenty of mistakes. Irrespective of how you rate Robben, there's little doubt that he will cause endless trouble one-on-one with Bridge here.

 

[diarm]

I'm not voting but I expected Skizzo/Pat to go for a 433 with Henry and Ronaldo left and right of Suarez and Silva at the peak of a midfield 3. Not sure why but I got a surprise when I saw 442.

Gio has built a cracking side and that midfield is smashing. I can see Giggs and Shearer linking up really well and Gerrard will have a real impact as well.
It's very hard to look past the Ronaldo/Vertonghen mismatch though. It's by far the biggest gap between opposing players on the pitch and will be a real problem for them.

 

[antohan]

I'm finding it difficult to see Silva having much of an impact as things stand, Gerrard is patrolling the precise area he is operating in and he will never let him breathe for 2 seconds, nevermind the presence of Petrescu who can advance freely knowing Silva is never gonna advance into the flank, rather operate in midfield. Alonso picking out Ronaldo tearing Vertonghen apart is by far the clearest route to goal.

I rate Silva and his slickness and slipperiness on the ball. But I'm not convinced about him in this game. Either centrally up against Gerrard or Makelele, or out wide in a conventional 442 in a team that won't see a lot of the ball.

I agree with Aldo the clearest route to goal is Ronaldo here, and I wouldn't expect Silva to be the match-winner...

BUT I can see his movement pulling Gio's players all over the shop. Sure, Petrescu can move forward because Silva won't advance into his flank... but now Henry drifts wide to receive in ocean's of space. Makelele comes forth... and Suárez drops into the hole behind his back... I can't think of a better player than Silva to keep all of them in two minds, constantly, and eventually having them create the space for someone else to exploit, and having the ability to find them with a pass.

It is hard enough as it is, let alone when the team have prepared for a game where one of him/Suárez/Henry would be on the left and Makelele would most likely keep a #10 Silva in his pocket all game.

SkizzoPat has played this well and has that very strong midfield running around like headless chicken.

 

[Moby]

Shades of the infamous Luis Eyzaguirre demolition there.

 

[antohan]

I'm not voting but I expected Skizzo/Pat to go for a 433 with Henry and Ronaldo left and right of Suarez and Silva at the peak of a midfield 3. Not sure why but I got a surprise when I saw 442.

Gio has built a cracking side and that midfield is smashing. I can see Giggs and Shearer linking up really well and Gerrard will have a real impact as well.
It's very hard to look past the Ronaldo/Vertonghen mismatch though. It's by far the biggest gap between opposing players on the pitch and will be a real problem for them.

Precisely my point above, you are as surprised as Gio's midfield unit was when the game kicked off.

 

[Gio]

SkizzoPat has played this well and has that very strong midfield running around like headless chicken.

I'm just not buying it. We're miles apart in how we see the midfields matching up to each other here.

 

[green_smiley]

@Rado_N (in case you missed it)

Could you please help to put up a poll? Thanks

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?
Skizzo/Pat
Gio/Theon

votes visible without voting
votes can be changed
24 hours

 

[Moby]

Not sure why but I got a surprise when I saw 442.

Pretty simple. They have to stretch the game as much as possible and not get owned in the middle. They dictated the action zones in the match through this tactic.

 

[Gio]

Precisely my point above, you are as surprised as Gio's midfield unit was when the game kicked off.

Hardly - we knew Silva was operating left based on the team-sheet that was already up on Sharemytactics. No doubt Silva would drift centrally, but they've hardly gazumped us with some genius tactical maneouvre.

 

[Moby]

we knew Silva was operating left based on the team-sheet that was already up on Sharemytactics.

Leaked teamsheets.

Great start to this game!

 

[antohan]

Shades of the infamous Luis Eyzaguirre demolition there.

It's freakin' awesome. I love it when old tricks are brought forth, such as counting the posts to #40 with your Page 2 opener ready to go

Page 2 and there's still no bloody poll @Rado_N @Damien, your standards are slipping!

 

[antohan]

Leaked teamsheets.

Great start to this game!

Rookie stuff, I told everyone almost two years ago that it was a fundamental flaw with sharemytactics. All you have to do is search an unlikely player (e.g. Bridge here) and the last teamsheet is right there in front of you.

 

[Gio]

It's freakin' awesome. I love it when old tricks are brought forth, such as counting the posts to #40 with your Page 2 opener ready to go

Tempting as it was to bring it out earlier, it had to wait.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Hardly - we knew Silva was operating left based on the team-sheet that was already up on Sharemytactics. No doubt Silva would drift centrally, but they've hardly gazumped us with some genius tactical maneouvre.

 

[antohan]

Hardly - we knew Silva was operating left based on the team-sheet that was already up on Sharemytactics. No doubt Silva would drift centrally, but they've hardly gazumped us with some genius tactical maneouvre.

Feigned ignorance then?

Irrespective of whether Silva, Suarez or Henry is deployed on the left, neither will have the willingness to follow Petrescu back up the flank.

 

[diarm]

Pretty simple. They have to stretch the game as much as possible and not get owned in the middle. They dictated the action zones in the match through this tactic.

Precisely my point above, you are as surprised as Gio's midfield unit was when the game kicked off.

It makes sense that they're trying to take the game away from the areas their midfield strength can have most effect. I actually tried to do the same in my semi final.
I can see Gerrard and Viera causing some real damage in the space that will be afforded them when they do get on the ball in midfield though.

 

[antohan]

Tempting as it was to bring it out earlier, it had to wait.

I have to say, you are making Skizzopat look like hopeless newbs despite their many finals. It's definitely a brownie point for your corner.

 

[Gio]

Feigned ignorance then?

Aye.

 

[Moby]

Rookie stuff, I told everyone almost two years ago that it was a fundamental flaw with sharemytactics. All you have to do is search an unlikely player (e.g. Bridge here) and the last teamsheet is right there in front of you.

Just tried it, it bloody works!

 

[antohan]

Just tried it, it bloody works!

Of course it does, you didn't know that?

Friggin' newbs...

It's actually the only excuse I'll accept from MJJ/Crappy for Dimitiar and Paolo Ferreria, it makes their teamsheets unsearchable

 

[Moby]

Of course it does, you didn't know that?

Friggin' newbs...

You know me man, not the one to give a shit about what the opposition is doing.

 

[Rado_N]

It's freakin' awesome. I love it when old tricks are brought forth, such as counting the posts to #40 with your Page 2 opener ready to go

Page 2 and there's still no bloody poll @Rado_N @Damien, your standards are slipping!

This is the first alert I've had!!! Poll now added.

 

[Rado_N]

@green_smiley the first one didn't work because you edited it in, tags only work in original versions of posts.

No idea what happened with the one on this page.

 

[Rado_N]

Spoiler

See - no alerts in this thread, I wasn't ignoring you!

 

[antohan]

@green_smiley the first one didn't work because you edited it in, tags only work in original versions of posts.

No idea what happened with the one on this page.

Not surprising, he is shit at penos. Not tagging mods properly is more of the same.

 

[Skizzo]

Brace yourselves, long post coming.

While Bridge can be painted as a weak link in our defence, he's up against Robben, who struggled with any kind of end product. Kompany can be painted in the same light, and he's far more important to your defence. They need to keep shape (or try to) since the midfield will be pulled apart. Makelele is still looking around for who to mark, and with Kompany having one of his many brain farts, he's going to be somewhat of a liability in the company he's with here. Even more so if Petrescu keeps stepping out of the back, leaving a pocket of space for our attackers to exploit.

We'll start simply with kompany just blatantly screwing an offside trap. Bad positioning, bad reading of the game.

Here he is against Swansea, getting dragged to the ball, even though he ball carrier has 3 players around him...and he leaves a huge gap behind him which Bony runs into and scores.

Or should we look against West Brom and see how he decided he needed to be THAT tight to someone, leaving a gap at the back which led to a James Milner red card.

Let's see him in action against QPR when the mighty R's scored with Mr. Kompany going walk abouts and covering on the right...something he will be asked to do here with Dan Petrescu exploring up the right wing

Here's his red card against United, making a two footed tackle 20 yards or so from his box...rash, unnecessary...and not completely out of the norm

How about against Roma in the Champions League...Totti finding space in behind after he runs up to the ball carrier again

Or Middlesbrough getting the better of him as he charges forward to miss a header in midfield

Let's see what he was doing for Kike's goal in that same middlesbrough game (ill give you a clue, its leaving space in behind)

Against Chelsea and losing out to Loic Remy

Every example here, with the exception of Totti, has players not at the top of their game, skinning Kompany and taking advantage of his rash decisions and poor positioning....now imagine what a front line of Henry, Suarez and Ronaldo will do, with Silva and Alonso picking the space apart.

And yet Wayne Bridge is an issue up against a lackluster Robben? I'll take that match up over whatever central defender is charging all over the field doing. And we haven't even gotten into details on Ronaldo and Vertonghen yet.

 

[crappycraperson]

How many times did Robben play on the right for Chelsea? It was Duff who played on right when Robben came to Chelsea. Regardless if they was peak Bayern Robben then this could be a tight match, as it is,, it is tough to look past Skizzo. I thought he would start with some kind of 433 and then his front 3 could have been a problem but this is better. Silva is probably marginalised in this set up a bit and it is still questionable if the big 3 all get to play their best role or will they will get in each other's way a bit. But he has enough firepower to close this

 

[Skizzo]

I have to say, you are making Skizzopat look like hopeless newbs despite their many finals. It's definitely a brownie point for your corner.

hopefully that helps our hopeless newbs reputation

 

[Moby]

And we haven't even gotten into details on Ronaldo and Vertonghen yet.

Brutal. Love it.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Seeing as Gio is so keen to discuss our left back, a quick reminder of Vertonghen's propensity for mistakes is in order.



A shambolic display versus Stoke where he's directly responsible for the first goal:


A discussion on a Spurs blog about his rashness:

http://www.spursfanatic.com/blog/jan-vertonghen-impetuous/

And a fairly damning quote from his former manager:

Vertonghen is so poor. Can’t move his feet. He looks elegant with the ball, but he just can’t defend.

 

[Moby]

then his front 3 could have been a problem

If there's one thing you can bank on in a draft, it is crappy throwing a fit at Henry being used in anything other than up front in a classic 4-4-2.

 

[crappycraperson]

If there's one thing you can bank on in a draft, it is crappy throwing a fit at Henry being used in anything other than up front in a classic 4-4-2.

To be fair it is still ok if it is a general draft but in a PL only draft it would be ridiculous. You are talking about either the best or second best player to ever play in the PL based on PL performances only, so he should play in his best position first and foremost.

 

[Moby]

To be fair it is still ok if it is a general draft but in a PL only draft it would be ridiculous. You are talking about either the best or second best player to ever play in the PL based on PL performances only, so he should play in his best position first and foremost.

Well that's where he is being used here so irrelevant to say anything but I don't think he's that rigid, on the contrary one of the most versatile forwards you can have at your disposal. But yea, not for this thread.

 

[Gio]

Brace yourselves, long post coming.

While Bridge can be painted as a weak link in our defence, he's up against Robben, who struggled with any kind of end product. Kompany can be painted in the same light, and he's far more important to your defence. They need to keep shape (or try to) since the midfield will be pulled apart. Makelele is still looking around for who to mark, and with Kompany having one of his many brain farts, he's going to be somewhat of a liability in the company he's with here. Even more so if Petrescu keeps stepping out of the back, leaving a pocket of space for our attackers to exploit.

We'll start simply with kompany just blatantly screwing an offside trap. Bad positioning, bad reading of the game.

Here he is against Swansea, getting dragged to the ball, even though he ball carrier has 3 players around him...and he leaves a huge gap behind him which Bony runs into and scores.

Or should we look against West Brom and see how he decided he needed to be THAT tight to someone, leaving a gap at the back which led to a James Milner red card.

Let's see him in action against QPR when the mighty R's scored with Mr. Kompany going walk abouts and covering on the right...something he will be asked to do here with Dan Petrescu exploring up the right wing

Here's his red card against United, making a two footed tackle 20 yards or so from his box...rash, unnecessary...and not completely out of the norm

How about against Roma in the Champions League...Totti finding space in behind after he runs up to the ball carrier again

Or Middlesbrough getting the better of him as he charges forward to miss a header in midfield

Let's see what he was doing for Kike's goal in that same middlesbrough game (ill give you a clue, its leaving space in behind)

Against Chelsea and losing out to Loic Remy

Every example here, with the exception of Totti, has players not at the top of their game, skinning Kompany and taking advantage of his rash decisions and poor positioning....now imagine what a front line of Henry, Suarez and Ronaldo will do, with Silva and Alonso picking the space apart.

And yet Wayne Bridge is an issue up against a lackluster Robben? I'll take that match up over whatever central defender is charging all over the field doing. And we haven't even gotten into details on Ronaldo and Vertonghen yet.

That's very helpful in fact in bringing to life the points I made earlier regarding City's midfield. Let's break it down and analyse it properly.

Goal 1: Everton - Kompany is not at fault. This is Lescott's man and entire City defence is playing him onside.
Goals 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8: West Brom, United, Roma, Middlesborough - All examples of City's poor midfield anchoring. He gets pulled out because the defensive resistance in front of him is non-existent (It's usually lounging 30 yards up the park - Yaya and David I'm afraid). These simply won't happen with Makelele in front of him alongside Vieira and Gerrard. There won't be 4 v 2 at the heart of midfield as there is in the United example, or 2 v 1 as there is in both the United examples. There just won't be all of that space in front of his defence. That's the nub of the issue here and you've done a grand job of bringing it to light.

 

[Skizzo]

That's very helpful in fact in bringing to life the points I made earlier regarding City's midfield. Let's break it down and analyse it properly.

Goal 1: Everton - Kompany is not at fault. This is Lescott's man and entire City defence is playing him onside.
Goals 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8: West Brom, United, Roma, Middlesborough - All examples of City's poor midfield anchoring. He gets pulled out because the defensive resistance in front of him is non-existent (It's usually lounging 30 yards up the park - Yaya and David I'm afraid). These simply won't happen with Makelele in front of him alongside Vieira and Gerrard. There won't be 4 v 2 at the heart of midfield as there is in the United example, or 2 v 1 as there is in both the United examples. There just won't be all of that space in front of his defence. That's the nub of the issue here and you've done a grand job of bringing it to light.

You can try and downplay it all you like, but at the end of the day, he's known to be rash and positionally suspect. Makelele doesn't even know who he's marking yet. And if you have Vieira and Gerrard so far up the field like you say you are, then there will be an overload for us on the Counter. The fact that teams like Boro, QPR and west Brom are able to exploit his position and decision making, to think the players we have here cant is quite silly.

 

[Gio]

A shambolic display versus Stoke where he's directly responsible for the first goal:

Hardly shambolic. Lloris looks most culpable from that game, Vertonghen's responsiblity for that defeat is far less. Certainly dwindles in comparison to what's been put forward for Bridge.

 

[Skizzo]

Plus all those Wayne bridge Southampton teams had Desailly, Campbell and Gilberto in them too right?

 

[Gio]

You can try and downplay it all you like, but at the end of the day, he's known to be rash and positionally suspect. Makelele doesn't even know who he's marking yet. And if you have Vieira and Gerrard so far up the field like you say you are, then there will be an overload for us on the Counter. The fact that teams like Boro, QPR and west Brom are able to exploit his position and decision making, to think the players we have here cant is quite silly.

Not at all - City's shabby central midfield and inability to anchor it are what these teams are clearly exposing.

 

[Gio]

Plus all those Wayne bridge Southampton teams had Desailly, Campbell and Gilberto in them too right?

Standard draft line of argument. Same goes for Vertonghen, he hasn't had the joy of playing alongside Vidic, Van der Sar and Petrescu, with Ryan Giggs in front of him.

 

[Skizzo]

Standard draft line of argument. Same goes for Vertonghen, he hasn't had the joy of playing alongside Vidic, Van der Sar and Petrescu, with Ryan Giggs in front of him.

Which is the same thing you spouted first about Kompany

You have the biggest mismatch on the field in Vertonghen against Ronaldo. Then a positionally suspect, rash center back who will struggle with the movement and pace of our forwards.

I get that you're trying to deflect it, but both of those are far more problematic for you, than a far from his best Robben against our defense.