You are forgetting Makelele and underestimating Gerrard. Makelele kills creativity. With Gerrard keeping Alonso occupied, Silva would be cutting into the middle often to orchester play and that puts him right in the Makelele zone. Gerrard and Alonso will be an interesting battle, but I expect Gerrard to have a slight advantage. Alonso will mostly be restricted to his over the top long passes and it just is not sufficient for you to control the middle. They may not have the flair or the killer pass, but between Gerrard and Vieira they'll keep that midfield ticking regularly and I think have a better control on the middle than your players.
All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: SF - Skizzo/Pat vs Gio/Theon
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
not really, but you're entitled to your opinion, which isn't exactly a beacon of truth. But sure, lets break it down.
The reason it worked was because he was deployed on the left wing, and on the other side was a winger he could interchange with. I stand by the statement that he started every game I came across as a left winger. Here, you have him solely on the right wing, with a strictly left footed left winger on the other side. Showing glimpses of his work on the right is the same issue we had showing Kewell could play on the right. It's far from where they are most effective, and at the end of the day, he was a left winger at Chelsea. He started on the left. He roamed to the right, but he never started there, or played majority of the games there.
He's not well capable of scoring goals against Bridge, because I'm not playing a one man defence with no goalkeeper. Robben had a mediocre goal scoring record at Chelsea, no two ways about it. He won't be stretching play either since he's going to be cutting in. Petrescu is who will provide width for you there, but him wandering off leaves your defence a tad vulnerable on the counter. No need to get into any of yesterday's debates about wingers.
The fact that he hadn't even peaked yet, and he was in his early 20s when he left...isn't really that much like a comparison to Henry. The fact that they were ok with losing someone of his potential, because of inconsistency and injuries, shows he didn't hit the heights anyone had hoped. He never really became a top, top player until Bayern. And even then, its because he changed his game from the selfish player, to a team player who works hard with those around him. Not the Robben you have in your team here.
Giggs doesn't 'need' a playmaker to flourish, that is an implication I don't think I made. I simply pointed out the fact that your team lacks a playmaker, beyond that, whatever consequences you think it has or hasn't, is up to you and others.
Ian Wright's take on Patrick Vieira's passing:
No pretense here that he's Platini, but the boy can play.
If not for Ronaldo/Vertonghen, I'd have voted Gio straight. But is that edge to even things out or even give Skizzo an advantage, I still can't decide.
Vieira can pass, and Gerrard can too...but you don't have a forward who will make the runs in behind. It's easy to thread a pass through from midfield into space with a quick striker. Here we have a deep defensive line, and you have a forward who is isolated up front, and would rather receive the ball to feet than in space.
You seem to have taken the comments to the extreme. I didn't mean Vieira is a dud on the ball, but I wouldn't call him creative, no. It is crystal clear who was the playmaker in that Arsenal team, and it sure as hell wasn't Patrick.
We never claimed to control the midfield, we even set up to avoid his strongest area. If Alonso has the ball, someone has to step from midfield to pressure him. Gilberto is alongside him, so if Vieira steps to him, then there's a pocket of space behind them for Silva to drift into. Makelele can step to cover that, but Suarez is right over his shoulder. There's too many dangerous outballs for him to negate them. Especially since we don't just have one quality playmaker, but two. And that's not even including the ability of Henry, Suarez, and Ronaldo to just pick up the ball and run at that defence..
Henry exploding down the field on his own. With the movement around him on the counter in our team, that defence wouldn't know where to step to.
A nice little bit of link up play on the counter with Ronaldo and Rooney. Speed, movement, quick precise interplay...we have it in abundance.
Like him and Duff at Chelsea? Not sure where your evidence is about this aversion to him playing on the right. There are several examples of him playing on the right wing in the video I've shared. Here are a few examples to refresh the memory:
No that wasn't back at you - it was Physiocrat's Graham Taylor pop. I've been called some things in my time, but do I not like that.
I didn't say he had an aversion to playing there. I pointed out the fact that he started on the left wing almost exclusively. He interchanged with Duff, meaning they would swap throughout the game. He was never deployed solely as a right winger. To mention any reluctance to accept Silva as a left sided midfielder in a 442, but then rave about PL Robben as a rampaging right winger is more ridiculous than anything you found fault with above.
Here you have him on the right wing, offering a goal threat of his own, spreading the game, and dominating the offensive side of the game.
He wasn't a right winger, he had a poor goal scoring record, he only ever cut inside from the right, and he was notoriously inconsistent.
It's not being idealist, it's pragmatic to have many strings to your bow.
It's only really Blackburn and Chelsea that exhibit your style. The most successful side did Utd did not and neither did Arsenal. It's had Cantona, Yorke, Scholes and Carrick. Also such a blunt style as yours primarily requires keeping the opponent out- you won't here. If you had a more intelligent covering defender marshalling the back four you might have a better chance but you don't
ZonalMarking's Michael Cox on Chelsea's wingers in their 2004-2006 team:
We've got two quick wingers sharper than anything in your back four. If Gerrard and Vieira have time to thread balls in behind the full-back, as they may well do given their dominance of that area of the park, then in any footrace Giggs will take Gallas and Robben will outstretch Bridge.
Let's find some other things Michael Cox has said, I'm sure he mentioned a bit about some of your defenders too...
TBF it was a little unfair. It's just frustrating that you began with such a strong spined team but then didn't add to it in a complimentary fashion. For example if you'd had Xabi and Mata in place of the Crab and Robben this would have been much closer for me to call
We've got three quick attackers sharper than anything in your back four. Alonso and Silva will have time to pick passes throughout the game, because you won't have a man on them all the time. You can pressure them, but there's no weak link in my team in terms of being able to pass the ball. Either you have to send a center mid wide to pressure Silva, or send Petrescu out of defence to pressure him...either one opens up space for either a pass back inside, or a ball over the top in behind for Henry. Henry, Suarez, and Ronaldo all have the pace and movement to pull your defenders and run in behind.
You can plug Robben all you want, but he's nowhere near the level of any of our attackers.
Vertonghen will do a little last ditch defending though...ill give him that...
The funny thing with Verthongen is:
- He is a left-footed centreback.
- LvG is hellbent on only signing left-footed LCBs.
- The entire caf is hellbent on us needing to sign a CB...
- Yet not a single soul puts forward Verthongen as a target.
- But he is starting in an all-time Premiership semifinal... against our Ballon d'Or winning Ronaldo.
@Anto that might have something to do with him plating for spurs and not being as good as he was in his first season.
both defenses are poor though
both defenses are poor though
Looking Uruguay, talking Northen Ireland..
The whole gameplan hinges on Xabi Alonso having a great game. Now I'm not sure if that's going to work when our midfield will be controlling things, both thanks to their superiority in quality and superiority in numbers. Has Alonso even ever played in a central midfield two?
I certainly don't see anyone in your defence being able to create from deep. The result will be that Ronaldo and Silva will be started of service on the wings, never mind Suarez and Henry up top. Amazing players, each one of them, but not much use when they can't get the ball.
Not as funny as you claiming Bridge was a better defender than he is.
Mata was never part of the plans and wouldn't fit a 433. Xabi was an option, but Vieira's a better player in most respects save the hollywood pass. And Gerrard's good enough at them.
Brilliant goal. But another example of a situation where there's nobody anchoring the midfield killing off space and opportunities like that one to develop.
Bridge IMO is the weakest defender on the pitch by a very clear distance - And I include Vertonghnen in that who, whilst he isn't much cop and clearly will offer sod all offensively, is a much more secure defender than Wayne Bridge ever was. Let alone the young offensive Southampton version. It's not even particularly close.
It's the second point I disagree with the most though - Clearly your defense has far, far less protection from midfield than ours does and consequently is at greater risk of getting stretched. I can't think of a hypothetical Premier League midfield that offers more protection, whereas centrally you're extremely porous - Your back line is well set to be pulled apart with Gerrard and Vieira breaking past Gilberto, whilst Giggs roasts Gallas on the outside.
Mata as an inside right forward with Gerrard and Petrescu allowing him to play mostly centrally. Also Vieira, Xabi and Gerrard would have been an awesome midfield three.
You think our defender is the weakest? I am surprised
It's not just the defender, it's who they are up against. Vertonghen has a much rougher ride against Ronaldo than Bridge against a far from peak Robben.
Centrally we aren't porous. Xabi playing as a deep midfielder, Gilberto from an Invincibles Arsenal side, with Campbell and Desailly behind in a deep line.
We already gave plenty of examples of your defenders actually getting pulled apart and giving up goals against teams far worse than ours.
Was Bridge really as bad as some people are making out? I certainly don't think so, I would rather him than Vertonghen in my team for sure. Vertonghen vs Ronaldo will not be pretty.
The Premier League Player of the Year has been awarded to a defender on three occasions. On each one of those occasions, it has gone to one of our centre-halves. Given how rare is for any defensive player to win an award like that, it shows how well they performed.
Arguably the best midfield of the Premier League era was Mourinho's Makelele/Essien/Lampard midfield which clearly has less passing ability than this side.
Gerrard is more creative and a better passer than Lampard.
But the biggest improvement in that sense is Vieria who is a significantly better passer than Essien - I think you're both underrating his passing the way Keane's often gets underrated.
The general point you make is fine as it's clearly a team set up to physically dominate the midfield, but I don't think that's issue. Even ignoring the fact that Gerrard and Vieira were both fine passers the team is clearly largely based on exploiting the flanks, where Giggs and Robben are well set to get the better of their respective fullbacks.
No he wasn't. He's not Maldini, but 151 appearances for Southampton, 36 caps for England, Southampton player of the year, fa cup runner up, PFA Team of the season, PL medal with Chelsea.
And those other pics and clips also show how badly they can be exposed. Poor positioning, rash tackles, and bad decision making.
Kompany is the biggest culprit. Vertonghen guilty of it too. And Vidic without the pace to cover either of them against 3 of the deadliest players to have played in England.
You don't win those awards, beating some incredibly talented attacking players, as a defender without performing brilliantly.
And you don't get exposed by QPR, West Brom and Middlesborough without having poor decision making and bad positioning. The gaps opened up by him stepping out, making stupid tackles, chasing the ball unnecessarily. It's how he defends. Looks good when it works. Leaves him badly exposed when it doesnt.
The point stands that you're going way overboard on the criticism - Kompany of 2011-2013 was fantastic. You don't become one of only three defenders to win Player of the Season by being any otherwise.
Vidic is the best defender on the pitch but there wasnt much between the two in Kompany's prime.