"I'm half the player under LvG"

[NecssryEvil]

Easy to call him a "coward". It's rare for players to come out with things in public because a) some fans will react badly b) they're likely to be sent to train with the kids.

I wonder if you'd be that brave if you didn't like your boss, or whether you'd just get on with your job like most people would. This is especially the case since neither he nor any other player can pick and choose who's managing the team anyway.

Players confide in other players, some of whom will speak to the press. It's what happens. It's not surprising they would do so if they're not enjoying their football.

Generally the decent journalists have good sources. Whether it's nonsense or not I suspect we'll never know but I wouldn't be surprised if isn't.

Another quick thought on this, if there really and truly is a player behind these comments, what do they think will come from this? Do they think it will help their cause? Do they think that LVG will change the way he handles players because of this? I seriously doubt it so the only thing that can come from this is a little extra, undeserved, friction in the locker room that he can't address since he doesn't know where it came from. So, as a player with an issue, they went about it the wrong way as more harm than good is being done. They put themselves above the team which I cannot get behind in any form or fashion. So, not only a coward, a selfish one at that!

 

[Devil may care]

Fellaini being selected to play in the reserves last night was a bit odd, not saying that means it is him but I am not sure why he had to play in them given he's one of several that have only had a bit of game time recently.

 

[Drifter]

Looking like it was most likely Herrera.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Judging on how well this quote goes down with people who believe all the narrative about Van Gaal, the quoted player might be a fictional one. There's nothing in the quote that is specific to United players, and it matches exactly the stories about Van Gaal from a few months ago. And now this quote suddenly comes up after a disappointing match. Other media will now speak of reported unrest among players, and mix it with other nonfacts to produce more stories.

The players spoke out to the press before. We know that because LVG admitted that the players came to him when this happened. Why is it so hard to believe that they are showing the unrest again through the media?

 

[Loublaze]

When I was at the emirates watching us get spanked, I posted that as we were leaving we watched the players leave the ground and Fellaini was the only Utd player to leave on his own in a shitty clapped out Mazda at least 20 minutes before the team coach.

probably nothing but thought it was tad weird that he left the ground so early, thought I would add some more fuel to the fire gents.

Really now?

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

The players spoke out to the press before. We know that because LVG admitted that the players came to him when this happened.

No, the story that came out had nothing to do with what happened.

Why is it so hard to believe that they are showing the unrest again through the media?

In this case it's just not very likely. First, there's no fact in the report that's even remotely checkable, it could be something that's entirely made up. Secondly, there is nothing remotely specific about it, a player who wants to make a point would give an example or something. It would also be very arrogant to call it 'not fair to the fans', while the player is obviously saying this out of his own interest, I don't see Ibrahimovic like characters in this squad who could be this arrogant. It's also made particularly believable because it's the same narrative from the press we've been hearing since he intimidated them with his famous "that's a stupid question": the mighty Van Gaal who frightens his players into submission to do things they don't want to do. People who informed themselves about Van Gaal know for a fact that the players perception of his character is completely different from the cliches the press spit out once in a while. There are just too many players and former players who've said that he is easy to talk with, he's approachable, his door is always open, he likes players to give their opinion and he's a kind man.

So this statement echoes a journalists opininon about Van Gaal, and not a player's opinion about him. To me that's makes it not unlikely to be made up, or taken out of context to such an extend it has the same effect.

 

[Fully Fledged]

No, the story that came out had nothing to do with what happened.


In this case it's just not very likely. First, there's no fact in the report that's even remotely checkable, it could be something that's entirely made up. Secondly, there is nothing remotely specific about it, a player who wants to make a point would give an example or something. It would also be very arrogant to call it 'not fair to the fans', while the player is obviously saying this out of his own interest, I don't see Ibrahimovic like characters in this squad who could be this arrogant. It's also made particularly believable because it's the same narrative from the press we've been hearing since he intimidated them with his famous "that's a stupid question": the mighty Van Gaal who frightens his players into submission to do things they don't want to do. People who informed themselves about Van Gaal know for a fact that the players perception of his character is completely different from the cliches the press spit out once in a while. There are just too many players and former players who've said that he is easy to talk with, he's approachable, his door is always open, he likes players to give their opinion and he's a kind man.

So this statement echoes a journalists opininon about Van Gaal, and not a player's opinion about him. To me that's makes it not unlikely to be made up, or taken out of context to such an extend it has the same effect.

The article never mentioned frightening the players just stiffing their expression.
As has been pointed out above Ander has already an interview last season where he believed that his freedom to hunt for the ball had been compromised under LVG and that he wanted them to always be where he had told them to be.

 

[Hammerfell]

Looking like it was most likely Herrera.

What makes you say that? The tweet by Herrera himself posted on the previous page suggests it isn't.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The article never mentioned frightening the players just stiffing their expression.
As has been pointed out above Ander has already an interview last season where he believed that his freedom to hunt for the ball had been compromised under LVG and that he wanted them to always be where he had told them to be.

If somebody has come out with all this stuff, then it sounds like someone who has always been thought of as a flair player. Although Ander can do some good things, I just think it is what Spaniards can do anyway. It is either a new player who has been shocked by having his playing style curtailed or it is a rehashed story, could it even have been someone like ADM having a moan from last season. Why let facts get in the way of a good lie. He stopped Ander running around and likely to LvG not even taking risks, but wasting energy. Ander has never been what you would call an attacking god previously, so don't think changing his game would bother him. Now ADM on the other hand. His form dipped dramtically after that Leicester game, when he seriously became conservative. Of course most stuff we are getting from the press could just be a load of old tosh to cause trouble in the camp and with the fans, who'd have thought of that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What makes you say that? The tweet by Herrera himself posted on the previous page suggests it isn't.

It's not his style. I would say he would not go anon if he had a gripe. He doesn't strike me as a wimp. He has pretty strong opinions on things and has said before that he has spoken to LvG before and was happy with what was said to him. It might be someone who isn't brave enough to go to LvG with his worries. Not everyone is that brave.

 

[Fully Fledged]

If somebody has come out with all this stuff, then it sounds like someone who has always been thought of as a flair player. Although Ander can do some good things, I just think it is what Spaniards can do anyway. It is either a new player who has been shocked by having his playing style curtailed or it is a rehashed story, could it even have been someone like ADM having a moan from last season. Why let facts get in the way of a good lie. He stopped Ander running around and likely to LvG not even taking risks, but wasting energy. Ander has never been what you would call an attacking god previously, so don't think changing his game would bother him. Now ADM on the other hand. His form dipped dramtically after that Leicester game, when he seriously became conservative. Of course most stuff we are getting from the press could just we a load of old tosh to cause trouble in the camp and with the fans, who'd have thought of that.

I'm not saying it's Ander. I have no idea who it would be. I'm just saying that the sentiment of what Ander said last year matches up with what the article says. Also that this article never mentioned bullying that was the Paul Parker article on another thread.

 

[NecssryEvil]

No, the story that came out had nothing to do with what happened.


In this case it's just not very likely. First, there's no fact in the report that's even remotely checkable, it could be something that's entirely made up. Secondly, there is nothing remotely specific about it, a player who wants to make a point would give an example or something. It would also be very arrogant to call it 'not fair to the fans', while the player is obviously saying this out of his own interest, I don't see Ibrahimovic like characters in this squad who could be this arrogant. It's also made particularly believable because it's the same narrative from the press we've been hearing since he intimidated them with his famous "that's a stupid question": the mighty Van Gaal who frightens his players into submission to do things they don't want to do. People who informed themselves about Van Gaal know for a fact that the players perception of his character is completely different from the cliches the press spit out once in a while. There are just too many players and former players who've said that he is easy to talk with, he's approachable, his door is always open, he likes players to give their opinion and he's a kind man.

So this statement echoes a journalists opininon about Van Gaal, and not a player's opinion about him. To me that's makes it not unlikely to be made up, or taken out of context to such an extend it has the same effect.

Exactly. Not too long ago if your source would not put their name behind their statements it was dismissed pending further investigation or verification from a second source, or written as an opinion piece. Also, not long ago, saying "anonymous source" in your article pretty much was the death knell as people would just dismiss it as "well, that just must be his opinion". Now we have 12+ pages of speculation on who it is because if Burt said that is what he was told, then it must be true. Exactly when did Mr. Anonymous become a valid source? Journalistic integrity is becoming an oxymoron.

 

[hobbers]

How is it obvious it's Fellaini? That guy would have gone down in United's Worst Ever XI if Van Gaal didn't give him a second chance

Process of elimination really. And I'm not sure if it's a case of Van Gaal giving him a second chance more that they're yet to find a solution in the transfer window that suits all parties.

If you look at all the players who have regressed to some degree since coming into contact with Van Gaal, who are still at the club, it's not actually that huge a selection. Depay, Mata (compared to his Chelsea days), Rooney and Fellaini. Then you have Herrera who could have a legitimate complaint about not getting enough game time, and Young who could have a legitimate complaint about being used as a utility full back more than anything else.

Can easily rule out Mata and Herrera because it's an anonymous comment to Jason Burt as I said before. Rooney will be well aware how much he needs Van Gaal to stay in charge right now. Depay avoids the press and certainly won't want to attract LVG's or the fans ire. Most of all it's a comment in the present moment and since the start of the season Fellaini has barely played and when he has got on the pitch it's been to pluck miracles out of the air and elbow defenders out the way.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm not saying it's Ander. I have no idea who it would be. I'm just saying that the sentiment of what Ander said last year matches up with what the article says. Also that this article never mentioned bullying that was the Paul Parker article on another thread.

I am not arguing. Yes I know Ander said he was told to change his game, but he didn't moan about it, in fact I think he actually thinks it is making a better all round player. If all the crap coming out is true, it is someone who doesn't want to change. Maybe thinks he was already perfect as he was. Ander always says you can talk to LvG anytime. This is someone who may not have spoken to him and is letting it all fester. Ander is the type who will always want to learn something different and learn from different managers. The way he watches all types of football tells you that. This is someone who doesn't think something might just be better for him in the longrun, a bit of a Billy Bigboots.

Of course it could all be as I said loads of codswallop. I am sure there will be another story, of course with an anonymous source about some other unrest, just to keep the pot simmering nicely.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

The article never mentioned frightening the players just stiffing their expression.

I listenend to the audio and the same guy made remarks about young players to scared to talk about it with Van Gaal, retorically effective if you've been made to belief the last 20 months that players are a scared of Van Gaal as this journalist is.

As has been pointed out above Ander has already an interview last season where he believed that his freedom to hunt for the ball had been compromised under LVG and that he wanted them to always be where he had told them to be.

So this player went to Van Gaal to talk about, and then talks about this conversation with his manager to the press. That wouldn't be very sensible if he was scared of him, would it? They put pressure on the ball together, because that works better than if one player hunts for the ball while it's beeing passed and he just gets tired. Also last year Herrera had a habit of moving towards the ball as soon as Utd had possession, but then he's making it harder for his teammate who has the ball, and especially the next one who gets the ball. I'm sure Van Gaal has explained why it's important to move in connection with the other players.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I am not arguing. Yes I know Ander said he was told to change his game, but he didn't moan about it, in fact I think he actually thinks it is making a better all round player. If all the crap coming out is true, it is someone who doesn't want to change. Maybe thinks he is perfect as he was. Ander always says you can talk to LvG anytime. This is someone who may not have spoken to him and is letting it all fester. Ander is the type who will always want to learn something different and learn from different managers. The way he watches all types of football tells you that. This is someone who doesn't think something might just be better for him in the longrun, a bit of a Billy Bigboots.

Of course it could all be as I said loads of codswallop. I am sure there will be another story, of course with an anonymous source about some other unrest, just to keep the pot simmering nicely.

I agree. I also agree that it could all be a load of rubbish but commenting on speculation is what forums are all about.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I listenend to the audio and the same guy made remarks about young players to scared to talk about it with Van Gaal, retorically effective if you've been made to belief the last 20 months that players are a scared of Van Gaal as this journalist is.


So this player went to Van Gaal to talk about, and then talks about this conversation with his manager to the press. That wouldn't be very sensible if he was scared of him, would it? They put pressure on the ball together, because that works better than if one player hunts for the ball while it's beeing passed and he just gets tired. Also last year Herrera had a habit of moving towards the ball as soon as Utd had possession, but then he's making it harder for his teammate who has the ball, and especially the next one who gets the ball. I'm sure Van Gaal has explained why it's important to move in connection with the other players.

Exactly, but he said it all openly in interviews with his name attached. This is a different type of character. Not necessarily sneeky, but maybe not confident enough to say what he feels openly.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I listenend to the audio and the same guy made remarks about young players to scared to talk about it with Van Gaal, retorically effective if you've been made to belief the last 20 months that players are a scared of Van Gaal as this journalist is.


So this player went to Van Gaal to talk about, and then talks about this conversation with his manager to the press. That wouldn't be very sensible if he was scared of him, would it? They put pressure on the ball together, because that works better than if one player hunts for the ball while it's beeing passed and he just gets tired. Also last year Herrera had a habit of moving towards the ball as soon as Utd had possession, but then he's making it harder for his teammate who has the ball, and especially the next one who gets the ball. I'm sure Van Gaal has explained why it's important to move in connection with the other players.

I can see young players being intimidated by him. He's the type of man who expects people to do exactly what he tells them to. If you don't you get shut out, VV is a good example of that. Keeping him around to kick every now and then just helps show the younger players not to mess with him.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I can see young players being intimidated by him. He's the type of man who expects people to do exactly what he tells them to. If you don't you get shut out, VV is a good example of that. Keeping him around to kick every now and then just helps show the younger players not to mess with him.

That's why it could be somebody younger, too scared to admit saying something openly. Mata and Herrera would not be intimidated by LvG. In fact they are both intelligent men, who would talk in depth with LvG. Herrera played under Bielsa who is on a crazy scale as high as LvG. If you can function under him, you can function under anyone.

 

[Fully Fledged]

That's why it could be somebody younger, too scared to admit saying something openly. Mata and Herrera would not be intimidated by LvG. In fact they are both intelligent men, who would talk in depth with LvG. Herrera played under Bielsa who is on a crazy scale as high as LvG. If you can function under him, you can function under anyone.

I agree that Mata and Ander wouldn't be intimidated and that it could be a younger player.

 

[RedRover]

A player going to the press to vent their frustrations on the condition of anonymity is cowardly and not the way to handle things. My world is quite a bit different than the one professional athletes live in so it's an apples and oranges thing I think (I could walk tomorrow if I felt it necessary), but, if I felt that my employer was holding me back then yes, I would go to him/her and let them know what I thought the problem was. If I felt that they would not change and that my career would suffer then I would look for a way out of the situation.

However, that was not really the point I was trying to make. My point was that I think it could just as easily be all made up and the fact that anyone can post/write whatever they want with no facts/sources as proof of it really happening/being said is ridiculous. Bottom line is, if a writer is going to publish something of this nature I feel like there needs to be names attached or I will call BS.

It's evident that anyone who takes Van Gaal in comes off not ou second best, but risks serious long term consequences. Valdes highlights the point.

If said player (assuming this is legit) has a three or four year deal where do they go if Van Gaal wields the axe? Training with the reserves instead of your pals for the next 18 months? Sitting on the sidelines and not playing? Seeing their career stall? Said player might have a wife and kids settled so moving on might not suit. At the end of the day going to press might not be wise, it may be naive, but if players are unhappy it will leak.

Whether you believe it or not is up to you. I don't know if it's true. All I'd say is it's plausible that a journalist would t band his source to protect his own reputation.

It's also plausible given that in this system, few players shine. Smalling is arguably the only one who you could say has looked a much better player for Van Gaal coming in, especially this year. You don't see a real sense of energy in the players and to me it looks like they aren't enjoying it.

At the end of the day, if one player is unhappy it's arguably the players fault. The more it is, the more likely the manager is the issue and that'll ly end one way of its the case. I guess we'll see.

 

[RedRover]

Another quick thought on this, if there really and truly is a player behind these comments, what do they think will come from this? Do they think it will help their cause? Do they think that LVG will change the way he handles players because of this? I seriously doubt it so the only thing that can come from this is a little extra, undeserved, friction in the locker room that he can't address since he doesn't know where it came from. So, as a player with an issue, they went about it the wrong way as more harm than good is being done. They put themselves above the team which I cannot get behind in any form or fashion. So, not only a coward, a selfish one at that!

Maybe he's frustrated and wants to have a dig. Maybe he's just daft - who knows. Maybe he's told someone else and they've talked and the journalist is exaggerating.

Perhaps players think this helps him get sacked or just want to piss him off.

I'm not sure it would have any real affect but it might make the player feel better.

 

[ghagua]

People taking wild guesses on which player it could be shows what a great job LvG has done on the midfielders and attackers.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

It's a big shame if its Ander. This is the guy we should be building the team around in a 433 formation. Be so pissed if we lost such a talented player.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I can see young players being intimidated by him.

Of course you can, that has been the press narrative for last 18 months. The substance of the story in this credibility, without it there is no story. But it's hard to find a (former) young player who was actually intimidated by him.

He's the type of man who expects people to do exactly what he tells them to. If you don't you get shut out, VV is a good example of that. Keeping him around to kick every now and then just helps show the younger players not to mess with him.

What's you point? Young players and VV should be allowed to mess with the Utd manager?

 

[Dans]

My money is on Fellaini.

He was the focal point in an Everton team that saw him score quite a few goals for them and play a fairly important role - he was somebody.

He's become a bit part player at United though (and rightly so in my opinion - he's not that good a player but also especially under the VG system - which he just doesn't suit at all) and must feel like his career has taken a massive dive in the past season and a half.

I think he'll look to move hoping that will be not such a difficult proposition after scoring an important goal or two for Belgium in the Euros.

 

[Miscemayl]

Rooney for me.
He's the one who have not been performing and have a cosy relation with the press.

The other would be Memphis, he have not been anywhere as good as he was.
None of the other signings seem to be struggling.

Fellaini actually improved under Moyes and I don't really see him using the British press to complain.
Mata perhaps but he doesn't feel like someone that would rat the manager out to the press.

 

[SteveJ]

After reading the entire thread, I can only conclude that it's Roomempherraini. Although it's probably Stretford in disguise.

 

[Stobzilla]

Of course you can, that has been the press narrative for last 18 months. The substance of the story in this credibility, without it there is no story. But it's hard to find a (former) young player who was actually intimidated by him.


What's you point? Young players and VV should be allowed to mess with the Utd manager?

Amazing isn't it ?

Moyes, too soft, dullard, no direction
van Gaal, too hard, smart, has too much direction

What the feck is it people are wanting ?

 

[Miscemayl]

Amazing isn't it ?

Moyes, too soft, dullard, no direction
van Gaal, too hard, smart, has too much direction

What the feck is it people are wanting ?

SAF.
I have no doubt whoever else we'll get (including Guardiola), we'll have plenty of "We're not doing it the United way", "Life was better back in 1999" threads within a year.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

Really now?

I swear guv, gods honest truth.

 

[Spock]

It has to be Rooney.

Fellaini, whatever his faults as a footballer, is not the type to bite the hand that feeds him 125k/week -- paycheck he would get nowhere else on the planet. Memphis is too young to bitch and moan. Rooney is all about himself first and knows the media, finally are starting to turn against him.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Amazing isn't it ?

Moyes, too soft, dullard, no direction
van Gaal, too hard, smart, has too much direction

What the feck is it people are wanting ?

Goals I believe.

 

[Summit]

My money is on Fellaini.

He was the focal point in an Everton team that saw him score quite a few goals for them and play a fairly important role - he was somebody.

He's become a bit part player at United though (and rightly so in my opinion - he's not that good a player but also especially under the VG system - which he just doesn't suit at all) and must feel like his career has taken a massive dive in the past season and a half.

I think he'll look to move hoping that will be not such a difficult proposition after scoring an important goal or two for Belgium in the Euros.

Fellaini has played his best football for United under LvG. Under Moyes at United, he was utter rubbish, so it can't be him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Fellaini has played his best football for United under LvG. Under Moyes at United, he was utter rubbish, so it can't be him.

Yup.

 

[Dans]

Fellaini has played his best football for United under LvG. Under Moyes at United, he was utter rubbish, so it can't be him.

You are joking aren't you? He's the last 10 minutes we're down so lets punt it up to the tall guy option and no more.

He's done next to nothing at United and plays less and less under VG than he ever did under Moyes. He was a focal point at Everton but here he is practically nothing.

 

[Summit]

You are joking aren't you? He's the last 10 minutes we're down so lets punt it up to the tall guy option and no more.

He's done next to nothing at United and plays less and less under VG than he ever did under Moyes. He was a focal point at Everton but here he is practically nothing.

Eh, how am I joking? Irrelevant of this season, you can't argue that Fellaini wasn't one of the first names on the team sheet last season. Him and Herrera with Carrick holding proved to be some of our best performances. Pundits were raving about him and had managers changing their formations just so they could cope with Fellaini attacking down out left flank (you know, mourinho). I'm not sure how you can possibly say that Fellaini under Moyes at United, was better than the Fellaini of last season under LvG. You can't. Fact!

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

You are joking aren't you? He's the last 10 minutes we're down so lets punt it up to the tall guy option and no more.

He's not though. We've rarely played him in that role this season, barring a couple of games right at the start. In the 2nd half of last season, he didn't play that role either.

When he's come on as a sub, it's often been for one of the holding midfielders, and he's not really gone and played an advanced role. He started and played upfront against Liverpool, and we still didn't hoof it to him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You are joking aren't you? He's the last 10 minutes we're down so lets punt it up to the tall guy option and no more.

He's done next to nothing at United and plays less and less under VG than he ever did under Moyes. He was a focal point at Everton but here he is practically nothing.

You're hopefully the one joking. Anyone can say this. But a guy who played vastly better last season under LVG than he did under the previous manager he played under saying this would be a bit odd.

 

[Dans]

He's been shite since he joined us. He was much better at Everton. He was a Moyes man. He now never plays. And you think he might not have noticed that?