The injuries are make things very difficult. If we lose a lot of points this month, then he could be in serious trouble.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Yes I suppose those two managers have strung a couple of decent results together haven't they - Ranieri out Van Gaal in! And woe betide Ranieri drops any points, because this Tuchel fella sounds great - actually Ranieri out Tuchel in! But hang on, what about the much-discussed Klopp, who WAS the greatest manager of all time on Sunday at 4pm, but by 6pm, he had been beaten by Shteve McLaren, who at 4pm on Sunday was the WORST manager of all time, so now surely it is in fact Shteve McClaren who is the king of all the managers and should instantly replace Tuchel as Manchester Utd boss?
Sacking him for Giggs would be pretty insane right now. At least with LVG you know we will most likely get top 4. Anything could happen with Giggs in charge
Just out of curiosity, Has he ever accepted his fault in losing a game over the past 18 months?. Its always seem to be something else.
His point was that it doesn't take 2 years to get a team playing well and managers can come get things sorted a lot quicker like Tuchel did at Dortmund. He didn't say give them the Man Utd job.
Bravo.Wow that's a mature post. Well done.
But in all honesty we won't, absolutely no chance,we couldn't even beat Middlesbrough, what evidence is there that we may win these 3 trophies because I surely don't see any.
Its a risk either way. If we are going to part with him in the summer, as many seem to agree, I don't see any reason for him to continue on.
The longer this kind of results go on, the sooner the players will start losing him. I think it has already started. A change could be refreshing for the players.
Don't want to get into arguments with individuals because it gets personal and we all want the best for the club at the end of the day, but the point I'm making is a serious one - which is that where do you stop just chopping managers? If you get rid of LvG under these circumstances you would have also had plenty of grounds for getting rid of SAF on more than one occasions and that didn't turn out too bad did it
But lvg says he's not staying anyway which is a short term appointment so it's not really chopping managers because he's leaving soon anyway.
The only time SAF was in danger was early in his United career, when he was a relatively young manager. LVG has already said he is retiring soon.
I'm not even saying that he should immediately go but to say that we shouldn't expect better after 18 months and nearly unlimited funds as manager is idiotic. His signings have been nearly all appalling so far and his style of football makes me wonder why I pay nearly £1,000 a year to go and watch them.
I think you're forgetting that Ferguson inherited a team 2nd from bottom of the table with a poor squad and a drinking problem. He had a bad season and a half results-wise but did a hell of a lot behind the scenes at the club that justified keeping him on.
Whilst we shouldn't be too hasty with sacking managers, we also shouldn't go too far the other way and hang on to people just so we don't look like one of those clubs. There's more important things at stake than that.
Yeah true, but you could just as easily argue that if he has been bought in on a short(ish) contract to do a specific job (and he is doing it - CL Qualification being the target) then why chop him midway through that contract with no obvious replacement?
Also, would argue you COULD have chopped Fergie during the "Djemba-Djemba" years if you are going to hold him to the somewhat harsh standards van Gaal is being held too, but stuck by him and he built another great side
Also, would argue you COULD have chopped Fergie during the "Djemba-Djemba" years if you are going to hold him to the somewhat harsh standards van Gaal is being held too, but stuck by him and he built another great side
Fergie had proved himself here at United, LVG has done feck all. Quite a difference.
Well I don't think any of LvG's signings have been "appalling" and it hasn't been funds that have been the problem, it's been getting enough players of sufficient quality through the door when they all settled at other clubs. In my opinion, every single signing has improved us, just need several more!
Ferguson inherited a poor side, but he also spent big money (in context) and not always on good players. Was also given much more time, albeit if the Internet had been around then, and Sky TV, I genuinely think he would have been sacked
Come on Rooney has become fecking shite.
No manager would want to work with rooney atm.
Most of LVGs signings are injured anyway. Herrera, Rojo, Morgan, Shaw, now Darmian. Adding in Smalling and Jones + Rooney. Thats a big part of the spine. Add 90% of these players to our team, we probably end up going through.
I still say LVG has done an overall good job rescuing us from the Moyes Era (error?):
-Moved on "deadwood"
-Signed a good set of youngsters to take us forward for years to come (when fit)
-Brought us CL football again (even tho were going to Europa now).
Hes done some bad things too, like his insistence on always playing Rooney even when it doesnt make sense, or falling out / refusing to play form players like Young and Herrera. His inability to actually change a game whilst its happening.
I still say LVG has done an overall good job rescuing us from the Moyes Era (error?):
-Moved on "deadwood"
-Signed a good set of youngsters to take us forward for years to come (when fit)
-Brought us CL football again (even tho were going to Europa now).
Hes done some bad things too, like his insistence on always playing Rooney even when it doesnt make sense, or falling out / refusing to play form players like Young and Herrera. His inability to actually change a game whilst its happening.
And here we are, after a year experiencing his surroundings, getting a shit load of money to shape the squad, then cutting the squad to a bare minimum, having to play the likes of Varela where Rafael was sold, Borthwick-Jackson, McNair are never United quality, certainly not right now and most likely ever, they are playing cos he has to play them due to injuries, it is incredible negligence, still grinding out "results", mostly draws in a sleep inducing fashion, feck this shit, he should be judged acutely on this season, and it is nothing short of poxy, the league table is staving of some of the criticism, that is going to change rapidly, we have a shit load of injuries, more tonight, no squad to support it, is his motivation ticking the the boxes on his contract by playing youth players (cos he has no other option), got you to the CL (actually Europa league), reality, we are all over the place and it is damaging the image of the club.
Message of the month/ season/ decade!
There is no patience in football any more.
Personally I think we are in a time in football of few world class players who are significantly ahead of the rest. Barcelona/ Madrid/ Bayern get these players. After that there is a second tier, Chelsea/ City/ PSG all are willing to gamble significantly more. United and Juve are then maybe category 3.
There are times United will be at 2nd slot, but I think maybe not as consistently. We seem to miss out on the Aguero's, Hazard's, De Bruyne's, Silva, etc, I.e. the slightly more proven/ higher rated players.
United have money no doubt, but not as much as meets the eye. A lot of cash is cycled I.e. lots of players out and others in making net spend less than it seems. Chelsea are heading that way and look at their struggles (but they have advantage of location). City continue to spend huge money!
The fact is few managers can do a SAF and make the average look sublime and in reality SAF actually had a fair amount of the sublime. I think even SAF would struggle in todays world. Mourinho showed he could compete in SAF's time, but I think the combination of more teams with more money and a higher segregation between the world class players and the next tier has meant it's far more difficult to build a consistent and top drawer winning team.
It was right to sack Moyes, he wasn't respected and you need to own the dressing room. LVG is different, his philosophy may not be working yet, but take into account the above and in reality it's not as bad as it seems. Maybe more Wenger than SAF in todays world, but SAF could easily be more Mourinho of this season in today's world.
The above all being said, LVG is due to retire so is not the long term option. There are few managers that would have enough crudentials and history to hold down the position and guaranteed criticism that will undoubtedly come at some point. I have doubts about Guardiola, but he would pull in some interesting players, his tactics could build on what we have, he is young enough and has moved enough that he may be willing to stay and build over several years. If he is available it has to be a case of better to get him than see City or Chelsea or Madrid get him! (Madrid unlikely, but you get the point)
I want to live in this universe where, when every other defender at the club is injured, suddenly Rafael is fit consistently enough to make any sodding difference
3 finals, one win, 4 years, gets knocked out.
Of course he should have felt ashamed ffs
No point in sacking him now unless he completely loses the players' trust & the dressing room, and our current bad form continues. I absolutely want him gone after the end of this season though.
As different as Fergie's and Mourinho's counter-attacking brand of football.
That's about where it ends. Pep has gone on record as saying he hates Tiki-taka football, possession without any intent is pointless, passing for the sake of it serves no purpose. LVG on the other hand sees the entire game revolving around possession, if we have the ball, we control the game. That mindset is an expansion of "if we have the ball, the opposition can't hurt us". To LVG if we have over 60% possession, we have dominated the game and therefore the game plan worked. Pep doesn't see it like that at all, he wants possession so his team can score and create more opportunities, it's attack minded. It's about passing and moving while with the ball, playing in the oppositions half, where if you lose it they can do little damage and if you win it back, you have a chance to score quickly. LVG just wants the ball to be recycled, passed around until a weak spot or hole is found, where the game is played and the tempo is less important, only a pacey forward or big target man to exploit the space is needed. Entirely different mindsets, very different approaches to defending. Possession is just a means to an end for Pep, to LVG it is the be-all and end-all.
This is spot on.
Actually, Pep's posession football is both more similar (and influenced from) to Bielsa's brand of football.
Bielsa couldn't make it into a top club though, but the ideas are quite similar. Insane pressing, fast movements, playing into the other side's half and trying to kill the other team is how Pep likes it.
Zombie passing to the keeper and between the CBs, and insane patience until the other team mistakes is how LVG seems to like it.
Good points here, I largely agree with them.
The key for me is that we need to improve this season in terms of performance, if not there's no point in continuing into the last year of his contract, may as well let him go, we know how our team's performance when fergie was planning to retire first time around. LVG is never going to survive on the basis of moving deadwood, bringing through youngsters etc unless we are also performing well. For such an experienced manager it looked nailed on to make the knockout stages bearing in mind the group we drew, regardless of the positives this is a step backwards.
If Ancelotti is available and wants the job, he should get it come the morning.
If there is no other quality manager available, LvG should finish the season.
If there is no other quality manager available, LvG should finish the season.
I think so too. Van Gaal's contract is up next year. If he isnt the long term manager, we should get someone who is. I found myself agreeing with Michael Owen tonight. That's the final straw for me, when I'm nodding my head at that clown. We've spent £200 million in 2 years. You should be winning titles with that investment.
Its not 2013. Pep and Ancelotti are available in the next 6 months if we want them. There top are managers out there.
I hate the style of football so its hard for me to stick with him when results are crap.
But i dont see the point anymore.
I wouldn't be in a rush but i'd be looking for his replacement now.
I just think theres better managers out there and we've probably gained as much out of him as were going to get.
He steadied the ship but i dont see him doing anything worthwhile going forward with it.
If he cant win the league with the current level of opposition I just dont see how he ever will. anyway.
But i dont see the point anymore.
I wouldn't be in a rush but i'd be looking for his replacement now.
I just think theres better managers out there and we've probably gained as much out of him as were going to get.
He steadied the ship but i dont see him doing anything worthwhile going forward with it.
If he cant win the league with the current level of opposition I just dont see how he ever will. anyway.
What did he say?
How is keeping us in the top 4 "turning it around"? We're already in the top 4.
Depending how you view things currently it was either very insightful or Michael Owen talking.
He basically said spend ££££ equals winning titles. Very simple from a very simple man.
He'd need to turn around the form for that to remain true.
Not entirely true. He said he thinks we'll throw more money at it but that questions need to be asked as to whether Van Gaal can be trusted with more money. He also said we've been shite since he arrived and it's not just tonight that is the issue.
He was saying that's its rediculous we've spent this money and in his opinion have a worse squad than when LVG took over...
top 4 (4th actually the bottom of the top 4) ffs are we are asrenil in disguise
Like a forest fire.
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