Although true, I do consider that more of a freak season than anything else.
The team didn't seem to change much in personal from last season, yet the results changed massively
What now for Dortmund (and the Bundesliga)?
- Thread starter Wumminator
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The team didn't seem to change much in personal from last season, yet the results changed massively
that is true. We´ll have to wait and see how fast these new guys settle. Bartra is a bit of a surprise package. They still have various CBs (Papa, Bender, Subotic, Ginter) and Tuchel has to decide, if he trusts Subotic or Ginter.
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Never heard of him. What kind of player is he?
Turkish Marin, I meant Messi
Well being Turkish, he´ll sell a lot of jerseys immediately. The teenage girls will dick his looks.
Smart move. Even if they have to sell him to Fener, Besiktas or Gala in three years for a small transfer fee loss, they´ll probably break even on the deal.Impressing wheeling and dealing from BVB this summer.
I'm sure that Dortmund see a lot Mor in him than merchandise value if they pay €10m for him.
There are yt videos available from his two recent friendlies with Turkey, looks like he has great technique, rapid pace and loads of flair, I guess his end product is stil lacking though, given his not so impressive goals/assist numbers from his club matches.
There are yt videos available from his two recent friendlies with Turkey, looks like he has great technique, rapid pace and loads of flair, I guess his end product is stil lacking though, given his not so impressive goals/assist numbers from his club matches.
I know that, but if he was from Burkina Faso, they would have aimed for €5-6M and here they can pay €10M easily, cause he´s marketable and has re-sell value as a Turkish international. I was not impressed with the highlights except for the 1st goal video.
No white text apology? Why didn't I think of this one?! Damnit!
I really like Rode. Always looked good when coming on for Bayern but their midfield was just too good for him to break into.
I'm liking that transfer window.
Pep just outright refused to give him more chances. When he got to play he was usually no downgrade on Alonso etc. at all, rather the opposite. It's baffling how he just got ignored even when we had multiple injuries. I would've loved to keep him, if not as a starter then as one of the 3 or 4 major rotation players. He's everything you could wish for in a "squad"-player: Never complains, versatile, well liked, hard worker. Like a better version of Tymoshchuk.
I hope he does well for Dortmund, he deserves some limelight.
dortmund have so far acquired the services of
- ousmane dembélé (19, winger/AM, stade rennes, €10m)
- sebastian rode (25, DM/CM, bayern, €14m)
- marc bartra (25, CB, barca, €8m)
- mikel merino (DM/CM, osasuna, €4m)
- emre mor (18, CF/AM, nordsjaelland, €9m)
only rode has proven himself in the league though. other than that, i am clearly not the one to rate any of those players.
- ousmane dembélé (19, winger/AM, stade rennes, €10m)
- sebastian rode (25, DM/CM, bayern, €14m)
- marc bartra (25, CB, barca, €8m)
- mikel merino (DM/CM, osasuna, €4m)
- emre mor (18, CF/AM, nordsjaelland, €9m)
only rode has proven himself in the league though. other than that, i am clearly not the one to rate any of those players.
Dembele and Mor are clearly for the future. They will be on the brink of the first team no doubt. Together with Pulisic and Weigl, Dortmund have some very impressive youngsters on the books now.
Still a formidable team they have without Hummels and Ilkay. This coming season is the season to topple Bayern with Ancelloti coming in. I can see it really as their only chance.
Still a formidable team they have without Hummels and Ilkay. This coming season is the season to topple Bayern with Ancelloti coming in. I can see it really as their only chance.
Looking forward to Dortmund next season. Pulisic, Passlack, Weigl, Dembele, Merino, Mor, if they all fulfill their potential, they have a cracking future squad.
Interesting signings for Dortmund, certainly the way I play on FM but we'll have to see if that works in real life as well.
Great move for Rode as well, really likeable player, supposed to be quite humble as well.
It's really not baffling at all if you think that we bought Vidal in summer. The moment Vidal arrived it was clear Rode's time would be minimal, after a decent first season. Or did you expect Pep, or any coach for that matter, to start both Rode and Vidal?
If you don't want to complain about the Vidal signing, don't complain about Rode's lack of chances.
Looks like Aubumeyang is heading to City and surely they must sell Mkhitaryan this summer too, as he won't sign a new contract. What a summer for BVB...
To refer back to the question of the thread, which was where Dortmund is going in the future:
Right now a lot of what we do reminds me of the 2009-2010 period when Klopp constructed his bloody young highly talented team around a few experienced and proven players.
The difference to back then is that a lot of the signed youngsters are more on the radar of other clubs and that the quality of the academy prospects is generally higher. The expectations and stakes are higher now, but so is the quality of the remaining team. I would argue that even without Hummels, Gündogan and Mkhitaryan, our squad is still at least as strong as Leverkusen´s, which I see as the team closest to us in terms of squad strength.
When it came appearant that we would bleed more top quality players than the last years, we had basically two possible directions we could take: the first one would be to keep the vast majority of the squad together and try to replace the departed star players with big solutions and try to keep the loss of quality as low as possible. The second one and the one we are currently undergoing is to use the money, make the biggest overhaul in the squad since 2009 and tune the team towards Tuchel´s ideas and style to play. All talents and signed players so far create a picture of a team for me, which Tuchel strive to build:
- Bartra is supposed to fill the void of Hummels in terms of build up play from the back, is used to play in high possession teams and high defenses. He has still deficits in the tactitcal department and positioning, which are areas Tuchel is known for to develop well.
- Passlack and Guerreiro (this deal is according to reliable German and French sources all but done and will be announced later this week) are IMO very well suited for the respective Wingback roles, which Tuchel tried to establish in the second half of the season.
- Rode and Merino are two physically strong and dynamic ballwinning midfielders with big engines and wellrounded passing games to give us more control there and relief the creative midfielder (Kagawa/Castro) from pressure. This type of player was wanted by Tuchel the whole time.
- Dembele, Pulisic and Mor are all three extremely gifted offensive players in the technical department, but in slightly different ways. Dembele is nearly perfectly two footed (it is actually quite hard to see his stronger left foot sometimes), which make him a very strong user of feints and hard to defend in general as he can shoot or pass from pretty much every position. Pulisic is already very mature in his play, has very clever movement and good eye for space and very strong acceleration on the first meters. Mor is in terms of close control and first touch one of the best I have every seen at that age (this were the stupid Messi comparisions come from) and has a very agressive drive for the goal. All three are gifted dribblers, all three have the potential to work very well on limited space and beat the defender. These are the types of player you look for to unlock tight defenses and create space.
To put it in simpler words, Tuchel is currently building his team for the future which also tells me that he intends to stay for quite a while in Dortmund and develop these players. As supporter I was not this excited for the upcoming season for a long time. One of the biggest joys of football is watching youngsters who truly enjoy playing every week and see them growing in the process.
Right now a lot of what we do reminds me of the 2009-2010 period when Klopp constructed his bloody young highly talented team around a few experienced and proven players.
The difference to back then is that a lot of the signed youngsters are more on the radar of other clubs and that the quality of the academy prospects is generally higher. The expectations and stakes are higher now, but so is the quality of the remaining team. I would argue that even without Hummels, Gündogan and Mkhitaryan, our squad is still at least as strong as Leverkusen´s, which I see as the team closest to us in terms of squad strength.
When it came appearant that we would bleed more top quality players than the last years, we had basically two possible directions we could take: the first one would be to keep the vast majority of the squad together and try to replace the departed star players with big solutions and try to keep the loss of quality as low as possible. The second one and the one we are currently undergoing is to use the money, make the biggest overhaul in the squad since 2009 and tune the team towards Tuchel´s ideas and style to play. All talents and signed players so far create a picture of a team for me, which Tuchel strive to build:
- Bartra is supposed to fill the void of Hummels in terms of build up play from the back, is used to play in high possession teams and high defenses. He has still deficits in the tactitcal department and positioning, which are areas Tuchel is known for to develop well.
- Passlack and Guerreiro (this deal is according to reliable German and French sources all but done and will be announced later this week) are IMO very well suited for the respective Wingback roles, which Tuchel tried to establish in the second half of the season.
- Rode and Merino are two physically strong and dynamic ballwinning midfielders with big engines and wellrounded passing games to give us more control there and relief the creative midfielder (Kagawa/Castro) from pressure. This type of player was wanted by Tuchel the whole time.
- Dembele, Pulisic and Mor are all three extremely gifted offensive players in the technical department, but in slightly different ways. Dembele is nearly perfectly two footed (it is actually quite hard to see his stronger left foot sometimes), which make him a very strong user of feints and hard to defend in general as he can shoot or pass from pretty much every position. Pulisic is already very mature in his play, has very clever movement and good eye for space and very strong acceleration on the first meters. Mor is in terms of close control and first touch one of the best I have every seen at that age (this were the stupid Messi comparisions come from) and has a very agressive drive for the goal. All three are gifted dribblers, all three have the potential to work very well on limited space and beat the defender. These are the types of player you look for to unlock tight defenses and create space.
To put it in simpler words, Tuchel is currently building his team for the future which also tells me that he intends to stay for quite a while in Dortmund and develop these players. As supporter I was not this excited for the upcoming season for a long time. One of the biggest joys of football is watching youngsters who truly enjoy playing every week and see them growing in the process.
@sphera: great post!
Cheers for that post. I hope it works out for you!
Mor looks about 13.
Dortmund have just lost Hummels & look likely to lose Auba (and Miki this summer or the next), and despite some promising transfers, it remains to be seen whether they will be able to compensate. Next season will be defining for them, I imagine, with regards whether they remain one of Europe's best teams and so, a team able to attract the best players.
I don't see why the OP is being destroyed here. For what it's worth, i'm not in agreement with it - I feel Dortmund will remain 2nd (as usual) and that Tuchel is building for a [potentially] very good future, but it's still a legitimate thought. The only genuine top class player BVB have left right now is Reus. They have a lot of quality in Kagawa, Durm, Sokratis etc, but year by year they have deteriorated on paper & the league table flatters them because no one else is good enough to challenge the top 2. Hopefully Rode, Dembele etc do well this year - I would very much like to see them win another Bundesliga.
I don't see why the OP is being destroyed here. For what it's worth, i'm not in agreement with it - I feel Dortmund will remain 2nd (as usual) and that Tuchel is building for a [potentially] very good future, but it's still a legitimate thought. The only genuine top class player BVB have left right now is Reus. They have a lot of quality in Kagawa, Durm, Sokratis etc, but year by year they have deteriorated on paper & the league table flatters them because no one else is good enough to challenge the top 2. Hopefully Rode, Dembele etc do well this year - I would very much like to see them win another Bundesliga.
@Sphaero
What I miss is the spine or even the prospects or personalities for a spine. And I do not see Reus as an ideal team captain as he has enough own issues or a Schmelzer. Right now it looks like a nice playing field for a tactics guru like Tuchel, but a good squad needs more than that.
What I miss is the spine or even the prospects or personalities for a spine. And I do not see Reus as an ideal team captain as he has enough own issues or a Schmelzer. Right now it looks like a nice playing field for a tactics guru like Tuchel, but a good squad needs more than that.
hope you enjoyed reading the stupid english media!auba is at our team no matter what stupid "journalists" say.
the same with micki.
be realistic and dont give a **** what the english press is writing about us, they have no clue. since years.
reus is very important in the team. so schmelle and bender are. sahin ,too.
these three (or four) are like our captain today and will be it the next season.
@Twigginater asked a good question and he isn't really destroyed a lot of posters supported him in that thread. The only problem is that from the OP I have the impression that he sees Dortmund closer to Bayern than they actually are, the two titles gave a bad impression, Bayern are/were by far the top dogs and Dortmund are slowly building a solid #2 able to compete with their bavarian rivals.
Dortmund won two Bundesliga with an incredible squad coached by Klopp, they were never going to compete with Bayern with that squad limited in depth. Since then the club has grown financially and structurally, they are trying to create the foundations for a club big enough to compete with the best and it's going to take some time, you don't become Bayern on a whim
Important players Dortmund have lost:
16/17:
Hummels - 1 year left on contract
Gündogan - 1 year left on contract
15/16
none
14/15
Lewandowski - end of contract -> Aubameyang
13/14
Götze - release clause -> Mkhitaryan
12/13
Kagawa - 1 year left on contract -> Reus
11/12
Sahin - release clause -> Gündogan
I think the last key player Dortmund sold willingly was Mladen Petric in 08/09, some might also count Alexander Frei, but imho he was let go because he didn't fit into Klopp's philosophy.
What I'm trying to make clear is that Dortmund is in the driver's seat regarding Aubameyang, which either means the rumours are rubbish (wouldn't surprise me one bit, since English media have a vivid imagination and none of the trustworthy German sources has picked it up yet)
or Dortmund actually want to sell him because they have a huge offer in front of them and a good replacement lined up. So this shouldn't worry anyone, especially since I believe that Aubameyang profits greatly from the team behind him and doesn't belong in the absolute elite bracket.
The other thing I'm trying to show is that Dortmund isn't deteriorating. Aside from Lewandowski (and Aubameyang still is a very good player) they have replaced every one who left with someone who is at least just as good while also strengthening their depth with every season.
This is also evident by last season's league performance where they finished three points shy of their all-time record, after dropping 5 points in their final two matches when title race was completely over.
Or if you look at it from another angle:
Sahin was the heart of their game before he left, now he is a luxury option and I wouldn't even be surprised if he left. Kagawa was the one who put the class in their attack before he left, now he is in and out of the first team. Götze was carrying the team quite often, now there were reports that the leadership isn't sure whether or not they want him back at a discount.
edit:
as I was writing this post Dortmund's press secretary told DPA that this is news to them and they know nothing about that story [regarding Aubameyang].
what's funny is that i, as a dortmund fan, couldn't really be arsed to care about which player may or may not leave the club at this point. some filthy-rich club wants to grab auba, reus or mkhitaryan for a massive fee? fine, so be it. i don't friggin' care anymore, i completely trust the club and its forerunners - while it would be a pity if mkhitaryan left. but hey!
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True, though some of the initial replies in this thread implied it was a stupid question to ask, & those disappeared once people started talking sense on the topic. Agreed about Bayern - Dortmund are the only competitors to them in the league, but it doesn't mean they are anywhere near that level. It would take something catastrophic for them to finish outside of the top 2, and first place is expected of them every season (and they deliver with ease, they have the title secured by February or March recently).
That's why I think Tuchel is a good coach - he's building for the future and he knows that for BVB to reach that level, it will take years of consolidation and quality players coming through. They aren't in a position to rely on a specific handful of players [in the long run] due to the PL/La Liga/Bayern's poaching power, so the only way forward is to build a side for the future & hope that no other team in the league leapfrogs them while they are in this phase of transition - I think it's very possible that, again, they will reach Klopp levels soon, but they'll require good fortune along the way. He is in a good position though - he has time on his side & a fan base that doesn't deem 2nd place a failure each season, so as long as he performs he will have the chance to create the team that he wants.
I am not even in the UK, nor am I from there. I'm not even saying they are going to be sold for sure, but it's no secret that Aubameyang has promised to play for Real Madrid at some point in his career, while Miki is being linked with a few other top sides. I hope they both stay at BVB, but I would be very surprised if both of them are there in 3 or 4 seasons time.
auba is at our team no matter what stupid "journalists" say.
the same with micki.
be realistic and dont give a **** what the english press is writing about us, they have no clue. since years.
Agree with everything in your post, nothing to say to that tbh. However, re: Auba, I do think that if he decides to push for a move (this season or in the coming few years), it will just be better to sell him as there is no point in keeping an unhappy player. I guess nobody knows what will happen with him, but where there is smoke there is fire. I don't think he's good enough to play for Real, but the fact that he supposedly wants to go there means he isn't so opposed to leaving Dortmund. A club like City (who he has been linked with), for example, can pay him triple what Dortmund do, whilst guaranteeing that he will be contending for titles every season he is there. It would be a tempting offer for anyone.
Apologies for the mega post.
I'm very sure anchan is @slig......so many similarities
Despite his eccentric exterior Aubameyang actually seems like a very down to earth guy in interviews, so I have no reason to believe that he would cause immense trouble to force a move and in general I wouldn't be against selling him if the offer is right (since as already mentioned I see him as a very good player, but ultimately replacable). However Dortmund already lost two important players this summer and they have to keep an eye on their team cohesion now, I'd also imagine that their chances of extending Mkhitaryans contract (how ever high or low they might be atm) would evaporate the instant they start selling players they don't have to.
It's a good thing Dortmund are absolutely killing it on the recruitment front or I might be worried about selling all these players. Their latest recruit Emre Mor is a great talent, but not yet developed enough to play 1st team next season.
Timo Werner seems to be their next target. Werner has fallen foul of his own versatility and of VfB Stuttgart's failings. With their relegation, a cut-price transfer is a possibility. Signing the 20-year-old would continue Dortmund's admirably brave trend of acquiring young talent.
Timo Werner seems to be their next target. Werner has fallen foul of his own versatility and of VfB Stuttgart's failings. With their relegation, a cut-price transfer is a possibility. Signing the 20-year-old would continue Dortmund's admirably brave trend of acquiring young talent.
I actually don't really rate Werner all that much. He got a lot of hype because he started playing regularly at a very young age (though for a shitty team), but I neither see good technical ability or end product in him. I also don't see him as a typical CF (apparently he would replace Ramos there) and if Tuchel wants something unorthodox there he has plenty of options already in the squad.
But then again if both he and Zorc agree to sign him then I'm probably just missing something about him.
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for me its the same, dont rate werner high.
but if tuchel and susi really want him, ok.
but i am not really believing the rumours about werner, the next transfer must be something different..
I also don't rate Werner that highly.
The one special thing about him is that he's very fast - but except for that I haven't seen anything from him that would make me think he'll develop into a good/great striker.
The only reason he's seen as such a big talent in the offense and is talked about so much is because Germany is going through a serious dearth at centre forward.
The last true goalscoring German striker who made it is Gomez, which kinda says a lot.
In the meantime there have been plenty of talents that have been heralded as the future German #9 and fell far short from making it.
- There has been Julian Schieber, who transfered from Stuttgart to Dortmund, couldn't cut it there and switched from the bench at Dortmund to the bench in Berlin.
- The next one was Richard Sukuta-Pasu, who dominated in the youth nationalteams and has since been playing in the German second league.
- The most successful one is Daniel Ginzcek, who actually comes from the Dortmund youth and transfered to Stuttgart. Many already saw him in the Nationalteam for this EM, after he played very well at Stuttgart. Unfortunately Ginzcek has been plagued by injuries and I hope he can turn it around with Stuttgart in the second Bundesliga.
So ... I really hope that Dortmund doesn't fall for the hype around German talents who could, maybe, with luck become the future #9 for the nationalteam.
Their transfers up until now were really good and they should continue that way.
The one special thing about him is that he's very fast - but except for that I haven't seen anything from him that would make me think he'll develop into a good/great striker.
The only reason he's seen as such a big talent in the offense and is talked about so much is because Germany is going through a serious dearth at centre forward.
The last true goalscoring German striker who made it is Gomez, which kinda says a lot.
In the meantime there have been plenty of talents that have been heralded as the future German #9 and fell far short from making it.
- There has been Julian Schieber, who transfered from Stuttgart to Dortmund, couldn't cut it there and switched from the bench at Dortmund to the bench in Berlin.
- The next one was Richard Sukuta-Pasu, who dominated in the youth nationalteams and has since been playing in the German second league.
- The most successful one is Daniel Ginzcek, who actually comes from the Dortmund youth and transfered to Stuttgart. Many already saw him in the Nationalteam for this EM, after he played very well at Stuttgart. Unfortunately Ginzcek has been plagued by injuries and I hope he can turn it around with Stuttgart in the second Bundesliga.
So ... I really hope that Dortmund doesn't fall for the hype around German talents who could, maybe, with luck become the future #9 for the nationalteam.
Their transfers up until now were really good and they should continue that way.
You are really Anchan
It's proper weird. But Anchan was a Bayern fan. Maybe it's his twin brother who happens to be a Dortmund fan?You are really Anchan