Is Bale considered more of a success on the international stage than Giggs?

[Enigma_87]

World Cup 1990? a semi final at a world cup trumps a Euro semi final.

Contextually, Wales achievement considering the size of their nation and it isn't their major sport is stunning.

Yeah I've posted it in answer to the same achievement at the same stage, as it is literally the same, obviously the WC is bigger in terms of importance.

Still nothing to take away from Bale, but in the current format it's easier to qualify for the finals compared to the time Giggs played or the time Charles played for example.

 

[Gio]

Bale is more successful than every British international player since perhaps the 1960s. Bringing Wales to the semi final of the euros outshines even England's best performance since 66. Why compare him to just Giggs?

If it's about influence in major tournaments then Gary Lineker's 6 goals and golden boot in the 1986 World Cup and various crucial strikes in the 1990 World Cup may be more significant at this stage.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

What did Giggs achieve at international level?

He ducked out of loads of internationals too.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Ermagawd, how many times. Wales would have qualified for the euros, old format way too, so even though it's easier now as you said, it made no difference to Wales qualifying.

Also, as someone else pointed out the overall team quality hasn't changed much from when giggs played, we've always had 3 or 4 good players and the rest making up the team. If giggs led and carried the team the same way bale has, we would have qualified for a tournament a while ago imo.

Yeah I've posted it in answer to the same achievement at the same stage, as it is literally the same, obviously the WC is bigger in terms of importance.

Still nothing to take away from Bale, but in the current format it's easier to qualify for the finals compared to the time Giggs played or the time Charles played for example.

 

[Enigma_87]

Ermagawd, how many times. Wales would have qualified for the euros, old format way too, so even though it's easier now as you said, it made no difference to Wales qualifying.

Also, as someone else pointed out the overall team quality hasn't changed much from when giggs played, we've always had 3 or 4 good players and the rest making up the team. If giggs led and carried the team the same way bale has, we would have qualified for a tournament a while ago imo.

Well in the 2000 for example they had Italy, Denmark, Switzerland and Belarus in the group. 1 team qualifies and 1 has to play play-offs.

Then in 2004 -again with Italy, Serbia, Finland and Azerbaijan. They finished second and fell in the play-offs to a Russia side.

Then in 2008 - Germany, Czechs, Slovakia, Ireland, Cyprus, San Marino - 2 teams qualify and the Czech and Germans swept aside that group.

1996 - same group with Germany and Bulgaria - Germany the team that eventually won it and Bulgaria that were 4th in the world in the 94 WC.

That's probably closest to Giggs peak in terms of ability. Compare to 2016 where Wales were in a group against Belguim, Bosnia, Cyprus and Andorra with two teams qualifying directly and 1 advancing to play-offs.

So yeah it's a lot easier to qualify for the finals of the EURO in the current format. I agree with the team quality - they had Speed, Bellamy, Hartson etc.

It's no excuse, but it seemed Giggs was not arsed about it(as others mentioned) since they didn't have much chance of qualifying in the first place.

 

[Rory 7]

EURO 1996?

Otherwise I agree of course.

Nope. 1966. The best England have managed since this is WC semi and Euro Semi. Bale's achievement outshine every English international player since 1966.

 

[Castia]

Seriously? it's not even close Giggs was a major disappointment at international level, the Welsh also hate the fact that he ducked tons of matches before retiring early.

Daft question honestly its so obvious.

 

[Galactic]

Is this a joke?

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Silly question because the answer is so blindingly clear. More pertinent question is Bale the more better and influential footballer for club and country over the course of their careers.

Talent wise, Giggs was streets ahead but as a matchwinning force at the highest level.. is Bale going to be remembered as the superior force?

Club Giggs imo. Country Bale.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I take the point that Giggs wasn't really committed to Wales, but he was neither Welsh nor English, but somewhere in between, wasn't he?

Also, he most likely opted to play for Wales for the right reasons, but he probably regretted not opting for England for the whole of his international career. He could have made the difference at Euro '96, for example.

 

[Lagger]

I'm English and prefer the Copa to the Euros. Anyway, I'm not sure what this has to do with Bale vs Giggsy?

Is that because its the one tourney england can't disappoint in?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

it shouldn't even be asked. Bale won that battle

 

[Bwuk]

Bale.

In fact, as much as people will disagree with me on this, is it really outrageous to say Bale is a better player than Giggs was?

 

[Alex99]

I take the point that Giggs wasn't really committed to Wales, but he was neither Welsh nor English, but somewhere in between, wasn't he?

Also, he most likely opted to play for Wales for the right reasons, but he probably regretted not opting for England for the whole of his international career. He could have made the difference at Euro '96, for example.

Isn't it a complete myth that Giggs was ever eligible for England?

He played for England Schoolboys but that was literally based on where you went to school. His parents were both Welsh, and I think the only other option he'd have had was Sierra Leone through his paternal grandfather.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

Isn't it a complete myth that Giggs was ever eligible for England?

He played for England Schoolboys but that was literally based on where you went to school. His parents were both Welsh, and I think the only other option he'd have had was Sierra Leone through his paternal grandfather.

Surely he must have been naturalised after living in England from the age of 6?

 

[Acole9]

Definitely Bale, Giggs used to cry off a lot of international matches.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Definitely Bale, Giggs used to cry off a lot of international matches.

Be surprised that anyone thinks it is Giggs. Bale has been immense for Wales, whereas Giggs never turned up for Wales. At club level, he is very unlikely to match the trophies of Giggs, but he has been a pretty important cog at both Spurs and Real Madrid.

 

[AltiUn]

Bale.

In fact, as much as people will disagree with me on this, is it really outrageous to say Bale is a better player than Giggs was?

Yeah, definitely, that's a stupid thing to say.

 

[soap]

Bale.

In fact, as much as people will disagree with me on this, is it really outrageous to say Bale is a better player than Giggs was?

Nah I'd agree Bale is better than Giggs at his peak. Unlikely to have anything like the same longevity of course.

 

[Scarecrow]

I think even Giggs himself wouldn't argue with that.

Edit: Answering the OP, not the last few posts.

 

[ATXRedDevil]

Felt to me like Giggs chose Wales but maybe didn't love the country the way Bale clearly does - perhaps he chose it to annoy his father and please his mother more than for any real feel he had for the country but that's just wild and unfounded speculation on my part and probably undeserved.

He grew up in Cardiff but moved to Salford at 6 years old so he spent his youth growing up as a manc lad really.

In an alternate universe, Ryan Wilson was the left winger England were missing in the mid 2000's and England went on to dominate the world stage.

Bale has been incredible for Wales and is right to be considered the best Welsh player of all time.

I'm half English and half welsh and I've thought about this all my life. If giggs played for England I'm convinced we would have won something in the 90s or the 00s.

 

[balaks]

I think a more interesting question would be if people think Bale will surpass Giggs as the best ever Welsh player? (assuming most here would have Giggs as the best).

 

[Frank Grimes]

Giggs was certainly a more graceful footballer than Bale is. Bale is a brilliant player but Giggs was a nicer footballer stylistically imo.

 

[balaks]

Giggs was certainly a more graceful footballer than Bale is. Bale is a brilliant player but Giggs was a nicer footballer stylistically imo.

Two different styles no doubt although personally I'd say Bale is probably the more effective player in terms of impact. I greatly admire Giggs as a player though.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Well in the 2000 for example they had Italy, Denmark, Switzerland and Belarus in the group. 1 team qualifies and 1 has to play play-offs.

Then in 2004 -again with Italy, Serbia, Finland and Azerbaijan. They finished second and fell in the play-offs to a Russia side.

Then in 2008 - Germany, Czechs, Slovakia, Ireland, Cyprus, San Marino - 2 teams qualify and the Czech and Germans swept aside that group.

1996 - same group with Germany and Bulgaria - Germany the team that eventually won it and Bulgaria that were 4th in the world in the 94 WC.

That's probably closest to Giggs peak in terms of ability. Compare to 2016 where Wales were in a group against Belguim, Bosnia, Cyprus and Andorra with two teams qualifying directly and 1 advancing to play-offs.

So yeah it's a lot easier to qualify for the finals of the EURO in the current format. I agree with the team quality - they had Speed, Bellamy, Hartson etc.

It's no excuse, but it seemed Giggs was not arsed about it(as others mentioned) since they didn't have much chance of qualifying in the first place.

I see what you're saying and yes they were tough groups I agree, but so should the 2016 quals for Wales have been. Belgium and Serbia were faves/highest ranked and in the past we would have struggled against Andorra. We got results against all 3 of these, largely due to bale.

Anyway, we both agree giggs just wasn't arsed.

 

[JaffyJoe]

Bale.

In fact, as much as people will disagree with me on this, is it really outrageous to say Bale is a better player than Giggs was?

I think he is. And anywhere other than a United forum I think you would get the same response.

Personally I don't think Giggs ever really reached the heights he looked like he was going to. He is a Premier League legend in terms of longevity and he was was a very good player. But where are his real stand out seasons? Where he was one of the best 5 players in the league that season. Beckham, Scholes and Keane always outperformed him for me.

Bale was a star at Tottenham and he's gone abroad and is a super star at Madrid. His peak is definitely better than Giggs for me and what he's been able to achieve with Wales just adds to it. Is he better technical player than Giggs? No way, but what makes him special: pace, power and striking of the ball add to that his approach to the game, he is very aggressive in terms of trying to make things happen and you have a player who has surpassed Giggs for me.

 

[Kag]

Bale is a better player full stop, if people are really honest with themselves.

He'll never have the same trophy cabinet, but he's actually a lot more consistent at the highest level.

 

[Tarrou]

Surely he must have been naturalised after living in England from the age of 6?

Might be wrong but I don't think you can between the four home countries. Giggs has stated he was never eligible to play for England, in any case.

 

[Alex99]

Surely he must have been naturalised after living in England from the age of 6?

Not between the UK countries

 

[fontaine]

Giggs was amazing, he did the small things. Bale is more explosive and gets the oohs and aahs but 9/10 coaches would pick Goggs

 

[Peyroteo]

I don't even think Bale was that good in the Euros. The set pieces and the confidence he brought to the team were the most important things he did. Ramsey was a lot more important to them and they missed him a lot in the semis against us. They got pretty lucky with the draw too. Played against very poorly coached teams and then got exposed in the semis where they should have lost by more than 2 to a team that everyone says was shit.

Still, Bale ahead of Giggs all the way. On the international stage that is.

 

[Santoryo]

Bale.

In fact, as much as people will disagree with me on this, is it really outrageous to say Bale is a better player than Giggs was?

Giggs was extremely talented and skillful, Bale is fast.

 

[.Rossi]

Giggs wasn't arsed and had protection from Fergie on the international scene. So Bale is the clear winner...

At club level though, Giggs destroys him

 

[Bwuk]

Giggs was extremely talented and skillful, Bale is fast.

Bale is much more than fast, there's a reason he cost 86m

 

[Redondo_Pirri]

Giggs 64 caps over a 16 year international career, Bale 64 caps over 10 years. Bale was also the major reason they qualified and got to the SF's in their first ever Euro's. They also have a good chance to qualify for their second ever World Cup appearance since 1958 again from the performances of Bale, who is equal top scorer atm in the European qualifying system.

We could also mention the fact Bale has 25 goals for Wales just 3 behind the leader and Liverpool legend Ian Rush.

 

[Ainu]

Be surprised that anyone thinks it is Giggs. Bale has been immense for Wales, whereas Giggs never turned up for Wales. At club level, he is very unlikely to match the trophies of Giggs, but he has been a pretty important cog at both Spurs and Real Madrid.

Domestic trophies no, but he has a good chance of surpassing him in Europe. Already on two Champions League trophies isn't he?

 

[Chorley1974]

It's not even worthy of discussion.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

Might be wrong but I don't think you can between the four home countries. Giggs has stated he was never eligible to play for England, in any case.

Not between the UK countries

Thanks! Didn't know that, but I suppose it makes sense, in a way.

 

[U99ted]

Post #7

Por = 7 and Spa = 6
Por - Spa = 1

7-1 confirmed.

But, but they beat Germany U23s in Rio!

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Bale is much more than fast, there's a reason he cost 86m

Yes. Giggs transfer fees were low, even relative to his era, weren't they.