RB Leipzig

Gandalf Greyhame

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https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...become-the-most-hated-club-in-german-football

When Borussia Dortmund play their first away game of the season against newly promoted RB Leipzig on Saturday, thousands of their most diehard fans will be following the team’s progress not in the stadium but over the radio.

Supporters of Dortmund, whose home ground averages one of the highest attendances in world football, have announced they will refrain from travelling to Leipzig, 210 miles (340km) to the east, in protest at their opponents’ commercial structure.

Instead they will be watching Dortmund’s youth team play at their old ground, Rote Erde, and following the senior squad’s Bundesliga match via a live radio broadcast. “Of course Dortmund makes money, but we do it in order to play football,” said Jan-Henrik Gruszecki, one of the protest’s organisers. “But Leipzig plays football in order to sell a product and a lifestyle. That’s the difference.”

The grassroots rebellion is the latest in an ever-growing list of protests against a club that has fast become the most hated in German football.

Until 2009, RB Leipzig was a fifth-division club called SSV Markranstädt that few had heard of even in its native Saxony. Then the Austrian energy drink manufacturer Red Bull bought the club’s licence, changed its name, crest and kit, and promised a transfer budget of a rumoured €100m (£85m).

Since the rulebooks of German football do not allow clubs to be named after their sponsors, the new club was christened Rasenballsport Leipzig, meaning lawn ball sports” – a name that the club’s marketing team studiously avoids in its promotional material in favour of “The Red Bulls” or simply “RB”.

But what offends Leipzig’s critics is less the club’s marketing strategy than the possibility that it could undermine the structures that in recent years have given German club football a good name.

Unlike in other leagues in Europe, the statutes of the German Football Association deter big investors from taking over its clubs. According to the so-called “50+1” rule, clubs must hold a majority of their own voting rights. Only investors who have been involved with a club for more than 20 years can apply for an exception to the 50+1 rule.

In Borussia Dortmund’s case, this means that 139,000 paying members have a veto over issues such as ticket prices.

RB Leipzig sign up to the letter of the 50+1 rule but – so their critics allege – corrupt its spirit: while membership at Dortmund costs adults €62 per annum, being a “gold” member at Leipzig will set you back €1,000 a year – and that still only makes you a “supporting” or non-voting member.

Even after being forced by the German FA to open up their membership structure in order to get a licence for the first division, RB Leipzig only have 17 members proper – the majority of whom are either employees or associates of Red Bull.

As a result, RB Leipzig’s seven-year rise into German football’s top flight has been dogged by boycotts and protest stunts by opposing fans. At Union Berlin in 2014, the team was met with spectators clad in black plastic ponchos and a 15-minute silence after kick-off.

In the first round of the German cup this season, supporters of Dynamo Dresden threw a severed bull’s head on to the side of the pitch. And in the opening match of the new season, fans of Hoffenheim – previously reviled as the Bundesliga’s other “plastic” club – waved sarcastic placards that read: “We want our throne back: Germany’s most hated club.”

In the buildup to Saturday’s fixture, Dortmund have refused Leipzig the licence to use their logo and name on a joint “friendship scarf”.

RB Leipzig’s supporters accuse their critics of hypocrisy, pointing out that other clubs with similar corporate support structures, such as Wolfsburg, Leverkusen or Ingolstadt, have been able to avoid the same level of scrutiny.

“It seems some people are more content with moaning about us than coming up with a workable way in which the 50+1 rule could be reformed”, said Matthias Kiessling, who writes a blog about the club.

Leipzig’s defenders point to the club’s progressive football philosophy. Under their innovative director of sports, Ralf Rangnick, RB have played attractive football and invested mainly in young players no older than 24, recently managing to lure the promising Scottish 19-year-old Oliver Burke to join from Nottingham Forest.

For young fans in the Leipzig area, watching big clubs like Dortmund and Bayern complain nervously about the Saxon upstart is a novel and exciting experience: the last time a team from the former GDR played in the Bundesliga – Energie Cottbus in 2009 – RB Leipzig had not yet been founded.

The question remains whether Red Bull’s marketing strategy can provide a long-term future for the former East Germany’s football landscape, which was ravaged by systemic lack of funds and the opportunistic scouts of West German clubs after reunification in 1990.

Sceptics point to Red Bull’s other football franchise, Salzburg, once the kingpin of the Austrian firm’s football empire, which has recently had to come to terms with its new status as a feeder club for its younger sibling after failing to qualify for the Champions League nine times in a row.

Over the summer, Rangnick transferred three of Salzburg’s best players to Leipzig. After years of being Austria’s most hated club, fans complained in an open letter to the almighty sponsor that they were now a “laughing stock”.

Well, there goes TMH, too.
 

Earthquake

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Decided weeks ago that they will be the first team i manage on FM17.
They've been one of the best saves in FM from right when they were in the 3rd division. I always have a RB Leipzig save.
What is their attendance and fan base like? I assume that's the biggest problem that a new club pumping lot of money will face.

Leipzig is a great place - half a mil population and the best local club is what 3rd division?
Smart move.
Nah, best club is probably RB, in the Bundesliga. :D
 

slig

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Last team from here in the 1. Bundesliga was VfB Leipzig in the 90ies, now called Lok Leipzig. There is also their rival Chemie Leipzig. These are the biggest. RB have put into a made nest. Leipzigs Zentralstadion still holds the records in the audience number in a german game with 100 thousand people in the stadium. The German Football Association was founded here (DFB), we were truly a sport-city before the revolution. That they are claiming for themself the revitalizing our sport-city thing is macabre and cynical.
 

Sphaero

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And they have had a very good plan. They have focused almost entirely on bringing talented youngsters instead of trying to lure big names.
Because they are unable to do that. I find it funny that many people congratulate them on their plan to build on talent like this is some kind of grand master plan.

Leipzig has the ambitions to play in the CL relatively soon. If they would want to accomplish that with established players, the costs of that would be gigantic. Forget Bayern, to build a squad like ours from scratch in today´s market would be around half a billion € and that is just the transfer fees.

As that is even for RedBull too much to lift at once and would very likely be stopped by our FA as the outrage by most of the supporters would be multiple times worse than it already is, they Chose the path of buying young talented players with the hope of success on the pitch and growth in value.

They are bankrolled by Red Bull. Even with all those 3 clubs combined net worth, Red Bull is still richer than them.
So what? Our kit sponsor and share holder Evonik generates more than double the revenue of what Redbull manages. For even bigger companies like Volkswagen or Bayer the difference is even greater. This does not mean that Clubs sponsored by them are pushed on the same financial level fof the three Football giants.

RB Leipzig has a good amount of growth potential as a club as it fills a certain void (sole East German Club in the Bundesliga) and is placed in a fairly big city.

I would say that in the foreseeable future they could generate a similar annual revenue as Gladbach without much influence of RedBull. That is respectable, that is something to build on, that is still around 200 Mil.€ less than what Dortmund generates and way north of 300 Mil. € difference when it comes to Bayern.

Now, do people really see Redbull jumping in and making up the difference here? 200-300 Mil. € every year just to match what the two top clubs have on top of what is needed to catch up in terms of personell and structure? I don´t.

RedBull´s CEO Mateschitz is a competive and ambitous guy. What he is not, is stupid. RB Leipzig is not some kind of pet project like Chelsea and City are or at least were, a shiny toy for way too rich people to play with. RB Leipzig is a marketing vehicle, which is supposed to generate something in return of the investment, not swallow up millions upon millions like a black hole.

RB Leipzig will probably be wise eough continue to invest in the future with the goal to establish itself in the Money league aka the CL. If they managed that, they will have to fend off the vultures aka the elite clubs for their best players, which will be a mammuth task on it own given how they lack prestige and how rich these clubs are. Then they have to match the growth of the top clubs before even thinking of catching up.

People see a club with massive financial backing and think they can just come in to threaten the juggernaut of the league. Maybe they will do so eventually, but it will take years, probably decades even until they will consistently become a rival on eye level. Bayern has just way too much substance for that.
 

dannyrhinos89

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Are they doing a Leicester this season

Do they actually look like they could go all the way
 

Theonas

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Are they doing a Leicester this season

Do they actually look like they could go all the way
They definitely can. As predicted by anyone who is not anti-Pep, Bayern are not the same team as they were under him. They are inconsistent and nowhere near as fluid. Add to that Ancelotti's league record and they do not hold the same fear factor now. Dortmund are very good but clearly they are not a powerful team in the sense that they can go on long winning runs. Having said that, Leipzig are such an unknown entity at this stage that it's difficult to predict how they will fare for the rest of the season.
 

Devil81

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I watched their game against Mainz last week, they blew them away in the first half.

They play with amazing pace.
 

DWelbz19

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I watched their game against Mainz last week, they blew them away in the first half.

They play with amazing pace.
The fact that their team is really young is great too. Hope they can sustain this.
 

dannyrhinos89

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They definitely can. As predicted by anyone who is not anti-Pep, Bayern are not the same team as they were under him. They are inconsistent and nowhere near as fluid. Add to that Ancelotti's league record and they do not hold the same fear factor now. Dortmund are very good but clearly they are not a powerful team in the sense that they can go on long winning runs. Having said that, Leipzig are such an unknown entity at this stage that it's difficult to predict how they will fare for the rest of the season.
Good as a complete neutral with no ties to bundesliga it'd be nice to see a new winner. I wish them well and hope they can do it.
 

Yagami

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I expected Leipzig to do well this season after acquiring Ralph, but not this good! Long may it continue!
 

izec

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They look unbeatable currently

Sabitzer and Werner look like fantastic players in the making.
 

Nicklas

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And Forsberg has been fantastic for them. 5 goals and 7 assists in just 8 starts (+3 sub) this season, as a winger.
 

RedPed

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I put RB Leipzig in my league winners acca a while ago whilst they were @17.00. Think I made a smart move here. Would be great for them to do it. They seem unstoppable at the moment.
 

AltiUn

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Think it's pretty disrespectful to claim Leipzig are doing a Leicester, only thing these teams have in common are their first three letters. They do look like an excellent team though, not sure how long they can keep this form up, or if they'll falter. About time someone gave Bayern a real challenge, the German league was dying but this is brilliant for the league. Not sure other German fans will like it though.
 

Xivon

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About time someone gave Bayern a real challenge, the German league was dying but this is brilliant for the league. Not sure other German fans will like it though.
I like it that we have a new team in the league that can give us and Dortmund a challenge, if not for the title this season than at least for the CL spots. We have to wait and see if they can keep it up, of course, but their start to the Bundesliga is promising for the future to say the least, because they have the board and the resources to build something big.

Some people seem to think that Bayern fans dislike them because they can grow into a next Dortmund (although they are nothing like Dortmund) but that's not the point at all. It's good to have them in the league. People who focus on the title race will watch the Bundesliga (again), people who are sick of Bayern's dominace are more than happy right now and I bet we get many hipsters who think it's cool to root for the underdogs who go against tradition.

I'm just a bit tired of people thinking that Bundesliga fans dislike Leipzig because they are good. It has nothing to do with it and everything with Bundesliga tradition.
 

Zoo

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They look unbeatable currently

Sabitzer and Werner look like fantastic players in the making.
One of our new scouts Thomas Bormann has been to the last 3 Austria games. Seen a rumour that Sabitzer is being watched.
 

Cristiano Lell

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There's only one way this is going to end..

.. with us buying Timo Werner in summer :drool:
 

Twigg

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A German fella explained Leipzig to me as though they are just another oil type football club, with a focus on young players. So are they not just another City or PSG, and if so, why all the love for them?

Also, gotta admit it'll make the Bundesliga more interesting than it just being a two team league.
 

izec

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We as United? God please no.
He's not good enough.
Currently he probably isnt, but which player from the Bundesliga that doesnt play for Dortmund or Bayern would you take? Probably no one. 12 games, 5 goals and 4 assists for Leipzig this season isnt bad at all.

He is improving all the time. I watched 2 games this season, one for Austria and one for Leipzig and his finishing is excellent. He drifts too much in and out of games, but he is still only 22.
 

Earthquake

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Think it's pretty disrespectful to claim Leipzig are doing a Leicester, only thing these teams have in common are their first three letters. They do look like an excellent team though, not sure how long they can keep this form up, or if they'll falter. About time someone gave Bayern a real challenge, the German league was dying but this is brilliant for the league. Not sure other German fans will like it though.
Why? Leicester are backed by a billionaire too, and have been under investigation for FFP regulations(which they've almost certainly broken), from their promotion season and dodgy sponsorships.