Where does Carrick go in terms of all time greats for United?

[The red panther]

Mentioning just his league 12/13 form is beyond ridiculous when Manchester United reached three Champions league finals, winning one and being stopped only by one of the best teams ever(if not the best) twice with Carrick as one of our instrumental players in all three campaigns. Last time we reached CL final, he was playing next to Giggs in midfield two ffs, and he was excellent. He was also at least twice our player of the season since 2010. He is going high even in his 36th, and he is still easily one of the best passers around.

But yeah, overrated. Let's talk now about building the team around Schwensteiger who at 31 couldn't play as good as Carrick can in his 36th.

Laughable

Mourinho is giving Schweinsiteiger a shamefull treatment now and last year Schweinsteiger was unable to play much and settle into the team because of injurries. But in terms of ability and career Schweinsteiger is easily 3 times the player Carrick is. Carrick has been as good as unexisting in the past 3 seasons. No assists, no goals and I remember some games of him where he was depressingly bad and many people were calling him a spend force and that he should better retire. Right now he is having a bit of a renaissence under Mourinho the last few games but he isn't doing anything out of the ordinary except providing simple midfield contol and defensive cover which no doubt Schweinsteiger could be providing just as easily. The overrating of Carrick on here is just mind boggling.

I'am also fairly sure if we would have this discussion about who were great midfield players of this generation with football fans of other clubs, only United fans would think of Carrick whilst Schweinsteiger would be one of those names top of the mind of many other football fans regardless of club. Carrick is an overrated United **** hero and he will only ever go down as a great midfield player in the minds of his United fanboys. But in 10 years most football fans (except the United fanboy club) will have forgotten about him completley whilst Schweinsteiger will live on as one of Bayern's and Germany's greatest ever midfielders and captains.

 

[Lord Megadrive]

Simply put, Carrick has been an excellent player for us (the fact he has been here a decade testifies to that ) but he's not a legend. Legend gets bandied around too much, like world class.

 

[Amar__]

which no doubt Schweinsteiger could be providing just as easily.

lol

Why isn't he doing that then?

 

[K2K]

Whilst I agree to an extent that Scholes wasn't as influential, while Beckham was at his peak.. you've got the 95/96 season, 02/03 season and 06-08, where he was very influential and the midfield heartbeat of the side. Even outside of those seasons, I'd say after 02/03, he was still making his mark on the side.. but due to him being quite, no one really understood just how much of an important player he was for us. Even I admit, that when I go back and watch old footage of us play, it makes me shocked to see how much of a role he does play pre 2006, in the tempo of our game and how much quality he has with his passing, dribbling etc.

On the flip side, for me Giggs really does get overrated outside of his initial burst onto the scene.. early to mid nineties, was prime Giggs and for me after that he never really took the mantle and became the heartbeat of the side at any stage, whereas for me Scholes did prove he can be the 'midfield' heartbeat of the side. Anyway I digress, based on pure midfielders.. I'd rank United centre/attacking mids as follows in terms of peak ability.

In terms of his career, and overall standing, I'd have him ahead of Ince.

Butt was rated highly by Fergie but suffered alot with his eyesight after breaking into the side and it hindered his progress. Not sure if it got resolved, but this was a guy who Fergie trusted right away in the most serious of fixtures.


Tier 1: Sir Bobby Charlton/Duncan Edwards
Tier 2: Bryan Robson
Tier 3: Roy Keane
Tier 4: Paul Scholes
Tier 5: Nobby Stiles
Tier 6: Paddy Crerand
Tier 7:Paul Ince
Tier 8: Michael Carrick
Tier 9: Nicky Butt

Because of his achievements or what people think he would have achieved had he lived?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Imagine how much better McGrath would've been if he hadn't been playing with a perpetual hangover!

Ahuh.... and without injuries? ..... and if he was able to train properly..... or wanted to?

In the 80s, I remember him gliding around the pitch, breaking things up and playing a simple pass out (Stam reminds me of McGrath). Also remember his performance in the WC in 1994 v Italy where he showed great discipline and just bossed Baggio... Keane (who rarely does plaudits) said "Big Paul McGrath showed all the qualities demanded of us in Giants Stadium that day. For him the word big is appropriate. Known for his poise, his ability on the ball, his unique gift for reading the game, Paul displayed these qualities on this day. One other huge asset was his courage. When the Italians did get sight of the goal, Paul presented a final, insurmountable obstacle. Paul inspired us as much as in the end he demoralised Roberto Baggio and the other Italian players."

The bit in bold could be about Carrick... that's why I rate McGrath - he had all the attributes PLUS the physicality.

Didn't want to derail Carrick thread .... Maybe start a Paul McGrath thread?

 

[K2K]

He's only been in the team of the year once. In the season when he was United player of the season.

 

[Manny]

He's only been in the team of the year once. In the season when he was United player of the season.

Not really space for him when you consider they have to squeeze in Gerrard, Lampard, Parker and Barry.

 

[The red panther]

lol

Why isn't he doing that then?

He can't show it when he doesn't get the opportunity to play now does he ?

Mourinho said at the begining of the season Schweinsteiger was not in his plans and he wasn't going to give him playing time. He has been very true to those words. Complete shite treatment from Mourinho as far as I'am concerned.

 

[K2K]

Not really space for him when you consider they have to squeeze in Gerrard, Lampard, Parker and Barry.

It's fellow players that voted.

It seems it's always misfortune with Carrick for some on here. Both With England and now the TOTY.

Which other season was he robbed from entering into that TOTY?

 

[Ban]

Laughable

Mourinho is giving Schweinsiteiger a shamefull treatment now and last year Schweinsteiger was unable to play much and settle into the team because of injurries. But in terms of ability and career Schweinsteiger is easily 3 times the player Carrick is. Carrick has been as good as unexisting in the past 3 seasons. No assists, no goals and I remember some games of him where he was depressingly bad and many people were calling him a spend force and that he should better retire. Right now he is having a bit of a renaissence under Mourinho the last few games but he isn't doing anything out of the ordinary except providing simple midfield contol and defensive cover which no doubt Schweinsteiger could be providing just as easily. The overrating of Carrick on here is just mind boggling.

I'am also fairly sure if we would have this discussion about who were great midfield players of this generation with football fans of other clubs, only United fans would think of Carrick whilst Schweinsteiger would be one of those names top of the mind of many other football fans regardless of club. Carrick is an overrated United **** hero and he will only ever go down as a great midfield player in the minds of his United fanboys. But in 10 years most football fans (except the United fanboy club) will have forgotten about him completley whilst Schweinsteiger will live on as one of Bayern's and Germany's greatest ever midfielders and captains.

Maybe some overrate him but you sure as hell underrate him. That part about most football fans except fanboys forgetting about him is just laughabe. Also he played before those mentioned 3 years you know.
He will go down as an excellent player for United and will have his place in club's history, that's for sure.

 

[Lord Megadrive]

Ahuh.... and without injuries? ..... and if he was able to train properly..... or wanted to?

In the 80s, I remember him gliding around the pitch, breaking things up and playing a simple pass out (Stam reminds me of McGrath). Also remember his performance in the WC in 1994 v Italy where he showed great discipline and just bossed Baggio... Keane (who rarely does plaudits) said "Big Paul McGrath showed all the qualities demanded of us in Giants Stadium that day. For him the word big is appropriate. Known for his poise, his ability on the ball, his unique gift for reading the game, Paul displayed these qualities on this day. One other huge asset was his courage. When the Italians did get sight of the goal, Paul presented a final, insurmountable obstacle. Paul inspired us as much as in the end he demoralised Roberto Baggio and the other Italian players."

The bit in bold could be about Carrick... that's why I rate McGrath - he had all the attributes PLUS the physicality.

Didn't want to derail Carrick thread .... Maybe start a Paul McGrath thread?

That's a flipping good idea mate!

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

But yeah, overrated. Let's talk now about building the team around Schwensteiger who at 31 couldn't play as good as Carrick can in his 36th.

Right now he is having a bit of a renaissence under Mourinho the last few games but he isn't doing anything out of the ordinary except providing simple midfield contol and defensive cover which no doubt Schweinsteiger could be providing just as easily.

Could be would be should be.

He has to get in to the team via training like anybody else. No one in their right mind would 'shut out' 'world class' talent at their disposal. For what??

Also, simple midfield control and defensive cover? How many players can you name off the top of your head that'll slot right in and keep our midfield functioning as it is just now?

Single pivot midfield 3 is where his bread and butter's at. Like nomnomnom.

 

[Stack]

Best thread in ages for spotting trainspotters and boffins.

 

[The red panther]

Maybe some overrate him but you sure as hell underrate him. That part about most football fans except fanboys forgetting about him is just laughabe. Also he played before those mentioned 3 years you know.
He will go down as an excellent player for United and will have his place in club's history, that's for sure.

First of all I don't think it is laughable at all to suggest Carrick will easily be forgotten by many non United supporters. He hasn't left any sort of mark on world football that would make people remember him. He has had a long career as a faithfull servant of Manchester United and that is the only thing he will be remembered for but only by United fans.

I know he played more than in the previous 3 years but it was a comment on belitteling Schweinsteiger because Carrick did about just as much after he was 31 as Schweinsteiger is doing right now, virtually nothing except controlling possesion, which Schweini can do just aswell if he was given the chance to do so.

Finally I know he will go down in the club's history as an excellent player if only for the long time he played for the club. But the way people are talking about him now is just beyond reason. I don't think I underrate Carrick, I think I rate him quite fairly. He struggled in his first years, grew into a very important role for a number of seasons after that mainly because we also didn't have many good midfielders at that time and at the moment he is coasting in the team which is natural because he is 36. But the entire talk about him being a legend and one of the best midfielders to have ever worn the shirt and walked the english pitches is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Manny]

It's fellow players that voted.

It seems it's always misfortune with Carrick for some on here. Both With England and now the TOTY.

Which other season was he robbed from entering into that TOTY?

Like that makes a difference...

Its the same shite, the headline grabbers and players with a firework lit under their ass, make it into the team of the year.

 

[K2K]

Like that makes a difference...

Its the same shite, the headline grabbers and players with a firework lit under their ass, make it into the team of the year.

Using that logic, can we discount Carrick' s inclusion in 2013?

 

[Manny]

Using that logic, can we discount Carrick' s inclusion in 2013?

Why? Because England finally realised that he might actually be pretty useful considering the dearth of talent around him and still winning the league?

 

[The red panther]

Could be would be should be.

He has to get in to the team via training like anybody else. No one in their right mind would 'shut out' 'world class' talent at their disposal. For what??

Also, simple midfield control and defensive cover? How many players can you name off the top of your head that'll slot right in and keep our midfield functioning as it is just now?

Single pivot midfield 3 is where his bread and butter's at. Like nomnomnom.

Mourinho ?

He shut out Mata at Chelsea and he is shutting out Mata again here at United aswell.

He was also happy to completley ignore Kevin De Bruyne and send him to Wolfsburg for 15 million euro.

TFM is also not getting a sniff in the team whilst being one of our most promising players last year after Martial and Rashford.

He completley shut out Schweinsteiger before even giving him a chance. He said exactly that at the start of the season. He was one of those players, he had no use for, was not in his plans and was not going to play. He even made him train seperatley from the first team and all that...

Why he does that. I don't know ? He just doesn't like certain players I guess.

Also I don't want our midfield to keep on functioning as it is right now because it simply isn't functioning very well at all. I expect a bit more from a midfield than simply keeping posession and killing the tempo of the game. I think Schweinsteiger could perfectly do what Carrick is doing right now and so could Blind. I would happily trade Carrick for someone like Kanté or Matic to fill that spot as they play that role so much better. And to give some other names: Witsel, Naingolan, Weigl, Jorginho, Strootman, Wanyama, N'zonzi, Valero, Parejo, A.silva, Carvalho are a couple of players that would do just as fine if not better as Carrick when given the same time and opportunities to settle in. That is not to mention to obvious lot who are alot better than him but unobtainable for us: Verratti, Busquets, Modric, Rakitic, Kroos.

 

[The red panther]

Why? Because England finally realised that he might actually be pretty useful considering the dearth of talent around him and still winning the league?

Or because it was the only season he was actually good enough to make the team of the year ?

 

[Ban]

First of all I don't think it is laughable at all to suggest Carrick will easily be forgotten by many non United supporters. He hasn't left any sort of mark on world football that would make people remember him. He has had a long career as a faithfull servant of Manchester United and that is the only thing he will be remembered for but only by United fans.

I know he played more than in the previous 3 years but it was a comment on belitteling Schweinsteiger because Carrick did about just as much after he was 31 as Schweinsteiger is doing right now, virtually nothing except controlling possesion, which Schweini can do just aswell if he was given the chance to do so.

Finally I know he will go down in the club's history as an excellent player if only for the long time he played for the club. But the way people are talking about him now is just beyond reason. I don't think I underrate Carrick, I think I rate him quite fairly. He struggled in his first years, grew into a very important role for a number of seasons after that mainly because we also didn't have many good midfielders at that time and at the moment he is coasting in the team which is natural because he is 36. But the entire talk about him being a legend and one of the best midfielders to have ever worn the shirt and walked the english pitches is beyond ridiculous.

It's laughable if you think he'll be remembered only by so called fanboys. He'll be remember by most of the United fans and rightly so.

Also strange comments about our midfield right now. It's functioning very well, it keeps posession, well having possession is a good thing and it's not killing the tempo of the game at all. Our mids don't haggle on the ball too much and ball is played constantly forward.

 

[Manny]

Or because it was the only season he was actually good enough to make the team of the year ?

Or him winning the league without a midfield partner made him impossible to ignore.

 

[Green_Red]

Id put him in the top teir with Keano and Scholes and he rest. Hes won everything for us.

 

[The red panther]

It's laughable if you think he'll be remembered only by so called fanboys. He'll be remember by most of the United fans and rightly so.

Also strange comments about our midfield right now. It's functioning very well, it keeps posession, well having possession is a good thing and it's not killing the tempo of the game at all. Our mids don't haggle on the ball too much and ball is played constantly forward.

Yet very few key passes or assists from midfield. How is that ?

The ball really is not constantly played forward and if it is it certainly isn't done in quick tempo. It is better than last year for sure, which is to be expected after the 100 million signing of Pogba but it still isn't anywhere near what should be expected from a top club. In my opnion the insistence of having Carrick in that 3 man midfield is one of the big reasons of it. Pogba and Herrera can work fine as a midfield duo and just let Mata play as a 10 to operate behind the striker. Take a bit more risk and let the ball move quicker to open up the opposing defence more often, we will see more goals that way. Yes we will be more open aswell but if you have a good centreback pair and a good keper guarding the goal that shouldn't be the biggest problem. I'am fine with a 3 man midfield in an away game against Liverpool or City for example but not at Home versus relegation fodder, having squaeky bum time every match because we can't score more than 1 goal in 90 minutes. People keep pointing the finger at the attack but Zlatan, Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan is a fine attack if used properly. It is just the are not getting supported properly from midfield in their offensive tasks.

 

[alanjohnson]

Where do players like Dennis Irwin rank? i know it's a diff position....but i would rank him as a more important player to us than nicky butt.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Mourinho ?

He shut out Mata at Chelsea and he is shutting out Mata again here at United aswell.

He preferred Oscar. Surplus to requirements.

He was also happy to completley ignore Kevin De Bruyne and send him to Wolfsburg for 15 million euro.

De Bruyne wasn't the player he is now when he left. Mourinho has certain demands and expectations, he didn't fit the bill so got moved on. Probably the kick up the arse he needed and it worked out well for the player, said it himself.



TFM is also not getting a sniff in the team whilst being one of our most promising players last year after Martial and Rashford.

TFM definitely deserves playing time. But we only recently got our strongest eleven (identifying them first, moulding them in to a system after) in to any sort of rythm. Even having to use EFL cup and Europa games to build momentum/familiarisation. I expect him to slowly integrate the youth as we further settle.

He completley shut out Schweinsteiger before even giving him a chance. He said exactly that at the start of the season. He was one of those players, he had no use for, was not in his plans and was not going to play. He even made him train seperatley from the first team and all that...

Why he does that. I don't know ? He just doesn't like certain players I guess.

Also I don't want our midfield to keep on functioning as it is right now because it simply isn't functioning very well at all. I expect a bit more from a midfield than simply keeping posession and killing the tempo of the game. I think Schweinsteiger could perfectly do what Carrick is doing right now and so could Blind. I would happily trade Carrick for someone like Kanté or Matic to fill that spot as they play that role so much better. And to give some other names: Witsel, Naingolan, Weigl, Jorginho, Strootman, Wanyama, N'zonzi, Valero, Parejo, A.silva, Carvalho are a couple of players that would do just as fine if not better as Carrick when given the same time and opportunities to settle in. That is not to mention to obvious lot who are alot better than him but unobtainable for us: Verratti, Busquets, Modric, Rakitic, Kroos.

Me and you have very different views of how our midfield currently works, what it does well etc. So I'll just leave it there.

 

[MUFC OK]

I think Carrick is perhaps the most underrated premier league player of all time, though he's now getting more credit since it has become apparent that we rarely win when he doesn't play, and rarely lose with him starting.

His ability to instigate attacks from holding midfield is second to none and has always improved the CBs playing behind him. He brings such a calming influence to the side and really will be irreplaceable when he retires. In my opinion only Toni kroos and perhaps busquets come near him in his role.

I suspect he will be remembered as our 3rd best midfielder of the PL era after Keane and Scholes in honesty.

 

[Ban]

Yet very few key passes or assists from midfield. How is that ?

The ball really is not constantly played forward and if it is it certainly isn't done in quick tempo. It is better than last year for sure, which is to be expected after the 100 million signing of Pogba but it still isn't anywhere near what should be expected from a top club. In my opnion the insistence of having Carrick in that 3 man midfield is one of the big reasons of it. Pogba and Herrera can work fine as a midfield duo and just let Mata play as a 10 to operate behind the striker. Take a bit more risk and let the ball move quicker to open up the opposing defence more often, we will see more goals that way. Yes we will be more open aswell but if you have a good centreback pair and a good keper guarding the goal that shouldn't be the biggest problem. I'am fine with a 3 man midfield in an away game against Liverpool or City for example but not at Home versus relegation fodder, having squaeky bum time every match because we can't score more than 1 goal in 90 minutes. People keep pointing the finger at the attack but Zlatan, Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan is a fine attack if used properly. It is just the are not getting supported properly from midfield in their offensive tasks.

Well having a midfield of Carrick, Herrera and Pogba coincided with some of the best games we had.
We haven't played that midfield 3 against relegation fodder too so often but with the exact team you said, Herrera, Pogba and Mata.

Also don't know what you mean that there are very few key passes from our midfield? What is a key pass anyway? Assist to a player which makes an assist. I bet if there's a statistic for that there would be a nice number of key passes.
Also Pogba and Herrera have 8 assists between them. Could be more but could be worse also.
Carrick, Herrera, Pogba is a well functioning midfield and contrary to your views I think it's functioning that well because Carrick is in it.

 

[The red panther]

Well having a midfield of Carrick, Herrera and Pogba coincided with some of the best games we had.
We haven't played that midfield 3 against relegation fodder too so often but with the exact team you said, Herrera, Pogba and Mata.

Also don't know what you mean that there are very few key passes from our midfield? What is a key pass anyway? Assist to a player which makes an assist. I bet if there's a statistic for that there would be a nice number of key passes.
Also Pogba and Herrera have 8 assists between them. Could be more but could be worse also.
Carrick, Herrera, Pogba is a well functioning midfield and contrary to your views I think it's functioning that well because Carrick is in it.

A key pass is a pass that leads to a chance at goal. If it is scored we call it an assist but if it is missed, the pass still counts as a key pass. I also think the pass leading up to the final pass is considered a key pass. There are public stats of that on squawaka.

Our midfield 3 don't rank great on those stats at all. Pogba and Herrera are okish but not among the best in the league, Carrick is really isn't good. Note we are talking Premier league games here. Carrick has had 2 key passes in 553 minutes which is very bad. Pogba for example had 28 in 1440 minutes, Herrera had 12 in 1107 minutes. Fellaini had 8 key passes in 723 minutes. KDB for example had 41 key passes in 1212 minutes, Payet had 56 key passes in 1265 minutes. Mata that I want to see played more has 20 key passes in 813 minutes. Which if you look at how many minutes does it take to deliver he key pass, he is the best in the squad but he is not played because Mourinho wants his midfield 3 for sake of control. But our lack of goals is also a reality and the midfield 3 is a part of that, no matter how you look at it. So to say the midfield is working fantastic, that is a bridge too far for me.

I also don't think we have had really any great games at all so far. We have had ok games in which we were decent or good but never brilliant. Lack of goals is a big problem and Mourinho hasn't adressed it at all so far. He is doing good work on controlling the game and defending well but unless we can link that scoring more goals I doubt it will bring us much closer to top 4 let alone the title.

Also Pogba and Herrera have 4 assists between them, PL games I'am speaking about. Stretched over 17 games thusfar, that ain't great by any means.

 

[Mike09]

You seem to forget that when we signed Vidic we also signed Van de sar. We started winning again because we finally found a partner for Rio who was world class,we got a world class goalie, Ronaldo wasnt 17 anymore and started breaking all sorts of records and we also signed Evra and Tevez and Rooney was at his best. So I dont see why you seem to imply that the team was shit and only became good when we signed Vidic which means he was so influential...

Those years you keep referring to we were also in a transition period playing with the likes of Kleberson Djeba Belion and Howard.

You forgot that we signed VDS in 2005/2006, and we still didn't win the league in that season with Rio and Silvester as our CB partnership. We even got kicked out from CL by finished 4th in CL. We started winning again after we signed Vidic in January. We didn't sign Tevez in 2006/2007 and we still won the league. Ronaldo left, Tevez gone, and we still won the league. How can you still deny the fact that 1999 team was so much better than the team that we had after Ronaldo left. Vidic was vital in our back four as he made the back four more solid. When he got injured in 2011/2012, we didn't win the league and had a horrible CL season. Using Kleb, Djem, and Bellion as an excuse but they weren't even our starter while Cleverley, Jones and 38 years old Giggs were our starter in 2010-2013.

 

[The red panther]

I think Carrick is perhaps the most underrated premier league player of all time, though he's now getting more credit since it has become apparent that we rarely win when he doesn't play, and rarely lose with him starting.

His ability to instigate attacks from holding midfield is second to none and has always improved the CBs playing behind him. He brings such a calming influence to the side and really will be irreplaceable when he retires. In my opinion only Toni kroos and perhaps busquets come near him in his role.

I suspect he will be remembered as our 3rd best midfielder of the PL era after Keane and Scholes in honesty.

Must be joking surely ?

Pirlo, Xavi, Alonso, Modric, Verratti, ever heard of these player or seen them play ?

Also it is not Busquets and Kroos that are near Carrick's level, they are well and truely above it.

 

[Mike09]

Vidic above Rio and Scholes not in tier one. Have you watched them play?

Being in tier 1 doesn't make the players better. To me Vidic is more influential in our success. Sir Alex dropped Scholes a few times for Butt while Vidic was vital for our back four which I never seen him being dropped.

 

[sullydnl]

Where do players like Dennis Irwin rank? i know it's a diff position....but i would rank him as a more important player to us than nicky butt.

Regardless of the position they played in, Irwin was about a bazillion light-years more important to us than Nicky Butt.

 

[DenisIrwin]

I think Carrick is perhaps the most overrated premier league player of all time. Just my opinion and one that I know is hugely unpopular here.

 

[Darwin09]

Carrick is obviously class and an important player for us over the past several years, but for me the lack of goals is a glaring issue that prevents him from really being considered among the greats in this club or in general.

 

[Moby]

Excellent play who has time and again justified his place in the team despite the age but wouldn't quite stand up against the elites. He had notable failures during his prime in Europe as well as constant poor spells in the league which won't be easily forgotten. At their respective peaks Fletcher gave more to the team, which mainly stemmed from being mentally tougher, which is where Carrick lacks a bit when it comes to tough opponents.

 

[Stack]

Carrick is obviously class and an important player for us over the past several years, but for me the lack of goals is a glaring issue that prevents him from really being considered among the greats in this club or in general.

Why is the lack of goals a glaring issue?
Some players arent there for their goal scoring ability

 

[K2K]

Why? Because England finally realised that he might actually be pretty useful considering the dearth of talent around him and still winning the league?

No.

Because the TOTY of the year is simply chosen on favouritism as you stated.

Or does that only apply when Carrick isn't in it?

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Underrated by many non United fans. He brings a certain tempo setting to our game. The fact that he is a bit opposite to pogba and Herrera adds a lot of variability tonight our play. He know when to execute a simple pass and when to release players, he is pretty metronomic in his passes too. Very reliable solid and definitely a legend. But like many holding players out there he will continue to be underrated until we lose him. I hope once his legs are completely gone, he can contribute as a back up to our young center backs. Who else is still passed that he didn't get the arm band instead of rooney?

 

[Raees]

Id put him in the top teir with Keano and Scholes and he rest. Hes won everything for us.

opinions in this thread, just get sillier. Serious overrating going on.

Do I need remind you that we needed to bring Scholes out of retirement such was the drop of quality in our midfield, once he retired. Since he's left us, we have finished 7th, 4th and 5th. Carrick's brilliance in midfield has got us where again? he's a facilitator, not a leader and certainly not on the tier of Scholes and Keane. People need to take their heads out their asses.. cause it is ridiculous to rate him as highly as that.

 

[Raees]

Because of his achievements or what people think he would have achieved had he lived?

Well I think considering the timing of his death, that is self-explanatory. For Sir Bobby to say he felt inferior to him said it all, based on the clips I've seen of him.. you can tell he was special but I wouldn't put him above Sir Bobby, because a) SBC won everything in the game b) both were different type of players and personally Sir Bobby is one of my all time faves to watch, so much class and guile on the ball whereas Duncan was more of a B2B midfield general type if anything, so I think if they had played together.. Sir Bobby would have held his own, just like Scholes and Keane.