barros
Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
But they are legalHome Depot also houses (Largely minority) day laborers. Can't have that now can we.
But they are legalHome Depot also houses (Largely minority) day laborers. Can't have that now can we.
@AmericanoOr let's keep record of Trump's feck-ups and broken promises in this thread.
Those are details. Trump supporters don't care about details.Let's start with that one.
- When was the last time America was "great", in your view?
- What is that would make America great (past/present/future)?
- What is it that Trump's going to do to achieve that (and what was Obama not doing)?
Amongst other things, this is excellent writing (IMO).There are many kinds of people, for whom accusations of racism/sexism are a more serious problem than racism/sexism, for whom strength means bullying other countries and courtesy is weakness, for whom Mexicans, not market forces, are stealing jobs, for whom integration of races is a negative and looking and speaking differently is a cultural threat, for whom crimes committed by minorities are proof of their innate violent nature and existential threat, programs directed towards these minorities are theft from their pockets, and for whom Washington is controlled by elite liberal university professors who talk in platitudes and fatten their wallets while directing the theft from white to non-white.
Come again? He did it without republican support all the way. They've all leeched onto him now of course. But I suspect the likes of Paul Ryan, Priebus et al will be in for some disappointments too. Trump hasn't forgotten what they all said about him and how they treated him. Which ones showed up to the convention to speak on his behalf? Not many of the establishment repubs.@Mockney
There isn't "a Trump voter." There are many.
There are the diehard Republicans. From Raegan to Trump via Bush and McCain, they vote one way. Demographically, they trend rural, white, rich, and uneducated. It's not that a city-dwelling poor college-educated black (huh?) can't be a Republican, but the trends are in the opposite direction.
But this is the core base, they weren't enough to beat Obama. What swung the crucial states for Trump was ex-Democrats in ex-industrial areas. Union members, reliable blue voters, were split this time. Ex-factory workers, now unemployed or in a part-time job, didn't like what Clinton was offering them. Miners in West Virginia had fled about a decade ago, notwithstanding their historic, fatal struggle with their GOP-friendly bosses.
Not everyone in his coalition are true believers. But he obviously had tremendous support within his own party. There are many kinds of people, for whom accusations of racism/sexism are a more serious problem than racism/sexism, for whom strength means bullying other countries and courtesy is weakness, for whom Mexicans, not market forces, are stealing jobs, for whom integration of races is a negative and looking and speaking differently is a cultural threat, for whom crimes committed by minorities are proof of their innate violent nature and existential threat, programs directed towards these minorities are theft from their pockets, and for whom Washington is controlled by elite liberal university professors who talk in platitudes and fatten their wallets while directing the theft from white to non-white. Trump could rally these vague feelings into his slogans - MAGA, wall, lock her up.
Meant party members/base, not leaders.Come again? He did it without republican support all the way. They've all leeched onto him now of course. But I suspect the likes of Paul Ryan, Priebus et al will be in for some disappointments too. Trump hasn't forgotten what they all said about him and how they treated him. Which ones showed up to the convention to speak on his behalf? Not many of the establishment repubs.
Amongst other things, this is excellent writing (IMO).
A lot of that was a refusal to vote for a Clinton. They were holding their noses and voting as much as dems were.Meant party members/base, not leaders.
Edit: he got almost 50% even when it was a double digit field.
He got 14m primary votes (45%) in a field of 17 with 4-5 high profile rivals, as compared to Romney's 10m (52%).A lot of that was a refusal to vote for a Clinton. They were holding their noses and voting as much as dems were.
But didn't a lot of his support come from newly-registered voters, not old-time typical repubs?He got 14m primary votes (45%) in a field of 17 with 4-5 high profile rivals, as compared to Romney's 10m (52%).
That's very possible, which is why I started the post saying there isn't "a" Trump voter.But didn't a lot of his support come from newly-registered voters, not old-time typical repubs?
http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...2016-polling-turnout-early-voting-data-213897While Trump’s insurgent candidacy has spurred record-setting Republican primary turnout in state after state, the early statistics show that the vast majority of those voters aren’t actually new to voting or to the Republican Party, but rather they are reliable past voters in general elections. They are only casting ballots in a Republican primary for the first time.
Bringing prosperity will make America great again, for everyone. Jobs, economic optimism, increased investment, money coming back in from overseas, new businesses starting, refocusing on manufacturing and industry, increased labor participation, and working folks getting a raise once in a while.Let's start with that one.
- When was the last time America was "great", in your view?
- What is that would make America great (past/present/future)?
- What is it that Trump's going to do to achieve that (and what was Obama not doing)?
How is Trump going to achieve all of this? His plans to reduce tax may have a short-term benefit but will see massive debt increases in the long-term. The same debt you complain about growing out of proportion!Bringing prosperity will make America great again, for everyone. Jobs, economic optimism, increased investment, money coming back in from overseas, new businesses starting, refocusing on manufacturing and industry, increased labor participation, and working folks getting a raise once in a while.
Trump equals money in the minds of the public, and that perception alone can help create an overall climate of optimism and real, rapid growth. The day after the election, financial optimism returned, despite all the dire warnings to the contrary. People I know are starting businesses and looking to invest where before they had been cautious. You want policy: decreasing corporate tax rate, deregulating industry, reshaping the tax code, keeping American businesses in the US, repatriating assets, and a general business-friendly attitude.
As for the past, we can look back to a great time when a young man could come back from the army, open a gas station, and make enough money to buy a Ford Mustang and a small home to start his family. I think NAFTA was a big turning point in the wrong direction, as Ross Perot (and Trump) said at the time. You could argue that it has been trending downward since Nixon, the Kent State massacre, since "Made In Japan" started, or whatever year the national debt started to grow out of proportion to GDP. It's been a while by any measurement.
I know @Raoul has a problem with "old" videos that make Clintons look foolish, but here's another populist slapping around another Clinton back in the day.
That's interesting, because Trump inherited his money and proceeded to involve himself in a long series of business schemes which lost hundreds of millions for investers. Eventually he reached a point where his lines of credit were basically closed, causing him to transition into TV and selling his name as a brand. Whenever he's tried to conduct business in any sense other than just licensing his name he has been a dismal failure.Trump equals money in the minds of the public, and that perception alone can help create an overall climate of optimism and real, rapid growth.
This is my favourite bit.As for the past, we can look back to a great time when a young man could come back from the army, open a gas station, and make enough money to buy a Ford Mustang and a small home to start his family.
Independent gas stations are getting squeezed because of corporate greed. The profit margins on gas are slim and set entirely by the suppliers....big oil.This is my favourite bit.
And I wonder what Trump and his real estate mogul buddies would make of any plan to bring property prices down to where they were 50 or 60 years ago?Independent gas stations are getting squeezed because of corporate greed. The profit margins on gas are slim and set entirely by the suppliers....big oil.
Mine too, I miss that man dearly. He was a great American.This is my favourite bit.
I don't want to insult your family. So apologies if that's the way it came across (and your example wasn't as hypothetical as it seemed). I'm just amazed that you think voting in Trump will somehow turn back the clock to the post-war years.Mine too, I miss that man dearly. He was a great American.
It's incredible that people think the small businessman who's been done out by corporate greed and globalisation will be in any way helped by a man who epitomises the most ugly aspects of...corporate greed and globalisation. Difficult to tell if such people are being naive, desperate, or don't really believe what they say and like to wind others up.I don't want to insult your family. So apologies if that's the way it came across (and your example wasn't as hypothetical as it seemed). I'm just amazed that you think voting in Trump will somehow turn back the clock to the post-war years.
Although, as per my previous post, there's a good chance he'll bring about a whole new set of post-war years....
That's a good one. The America I describe is one I experienced.Of course, your whole stance is undermined by the fact you're recalling an America which never really existed.
When Costco, Walmart and others see gas as a way to simply drive traffic and don't intend to make any profit on it, it becomes impossible almost by definition to run a gas station close to any of those at a profit.Independent gas stations are getting squeezed because of corporate greed. The profit margins on gas are slim and set entirely by the suppliers....big oil.
That's exactly what I'm saying, though. It's the America you experienced. Not the one those who had to fight for their civil rights experience. Not the one those who found themselves living in destitution or poverty experienced. Not the one just about anyone in an ignored minority group experienced. You live in a massive, massive country, diverse in its people and geography. To suggest the America you experienced is in any way universal undermines the struggles many experienced.That's a good one. The America I describe is one I experienced.
The America that you decry is an invention of internet children.
Possibly but no doubt he'd be sure to make himself exempt in the process. Cowards tend to like others to fight their battles for them.Is Americano trying to bring back the draft too?
I haven't said that. You asked me to describe when America was great and I provided a real example which the forum then went on to ridicule and question.I'm just amazed that you think voting in Trump will somehow turn back the clock to the post-war years.
Why do you think he's a coward? Do you know something we don't?Possibly but no doubt he'd be sure to make himself exempt in the process. Cowards tend to like others to fight their battles for them.
So you can see my ethnicity and skin color through the computer screen?That's exactly what I'm saying, though. It's the America you experienced. Not the one those who had to fight for their civil rights experience.
Well maybe. But it's not like he's bringing a whole lot to the table in the first place is he?Why do you think he's a coward? Do you know something we don't?
Surely this is exactly the type of post that keeps posters like @Americano from participating fully in the debate on here.
Well do you think that time of your father was also great for minorities?So you can see my ethnicity and skin color through the computer screen?
Well he's one of only three or four posters on the 'other' side of the debate on this forum - personally I'm finding the main Trump thread a bit of a cesspool of outrage at the moment, a bit of actual discussion of policy is much appreciated and insulting one of the only sources of the alternative view doesn't seem like a great idea to me.Well maybe. But it's not like he's bringing a whole lot to the table in the first place is he?
No. I haven't said that at all. People of all backgrounds and races were able to succeed...but it doesn't negate my point that some faced an immense struggle for some pretty basic rights, does it? Or that those people have it far, far better off today than they did back then?So you can see my ethnicity and skin color through the computer screen?
Fair enough. I guess we're all struggling to understand what "great" looks like to people who voted Trump. The example you gave seems to explain your expectations. In that context, I think it's fair for people to point out how unrealistic they are.I haven't said that. You asked me to describe when America was great and I provided a real example which the forum then went on to ridicule and question.
I think Trump will bring prosperity, and this will unite the country in a spirit of optimism and growth. Get past his personality and start liking the guy. He has a lot to offer.