Had fergie stayed on we would have been competing for the title. The guy never finished outside the top 3 in the pl league, it's not his responsibility to create a team for the next guy.
Should Jose suffer the same fate....
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So you are factoring in chances you squandered to say you could have topped us but are not factoring in chances we missed that would have had us even further in front. Out of the games we dropped points in both Palace and Swansea we squandered numerous chances. At Anfield we missed a penalty to cost us two points, heck even in the reverse game at The Bridge Costa missed a late sitter. So by the same logic if we took all our chances we would be sitting on 98 points with one game to go right now, in fact to be ultra pedantic about it Hazard missed two glorious chances at WHL to give us a further point and put us on 99. Also you are not considering the chances the opposition had vs United, from the top of my head that sitter Hull missed in the dying moments at Old Trafford.
I am not just referring to his inability to sign a half-decent footballer (RvP aside) in his last 4/5 season but also the decision to recommend David Moyes which was far more damaging
Don't get me wrong, it's not SAFs fault it has worked out the way it has - but neither is it Jose's
It is a series of under investment, bad investments and poor decisions which combine to put us in our current predicament
You speak the truth for the most part, using a load of if's and but's to support an arguement is generally not going to do you any favours, but there really is a great deal of evidence to support the whole missed chances debate. Namely the following;
Chelsea FC 1st position 200 (51,7 %) 80 20,7 %
Arsenal FC 5th position 179 (51,1 %) 72 20,6 % 
Everton FC7th position 181 (56,2 %) 61 18,9 % 
Liverpool FC3th position 220 (54,7 %) 75 18,7 %
AFC Bournemouth10th position 156 (51,3 %) 54 17,8 % 
Crystal Palace13th position 136 (46,6 %) 50 17,1 % 
Manchester City4th position 204 (48,1 %) 72 17,0 % 
Leicester City11th position 137 (49,1 %) 46 16,5 % 
Tottenham Hotspur2th position 239 (53,2 %) 73 16,3 % 
West Bromwich Albion8th position 122 (45,7 %) 41 15,4 % 
West Ham United12th position 132 (43,4 %) 45 14,8 % 
Swansea City17th position 143 (49,3 %) 43 14,8 % 
Burnley FC15th position 124 (47,5 %) 38 14,6 % 
Stoke City14th position 134 (47,9 %) 40 14,3 % 
Watford FC16th position 142 (49,1 %) 40 13,8 % 
Hull City18th position 119 (43,4 %) 36 13,1 % 
Manchester United6th position 205 (51,0 %) 52 12,9 % 
Sunderland AFC20th position 119 (49,8 %) 28 11,7 % 
Middlesbrough FC19th position 98 (41,9 %) 27 11,5 % 
Southampton FC9th position 181 (49,2 %) 41 11,1 Chelsea, unsurprisingly, sitting pretty at the top with a reasonable 20% conversation rate, United way down at 4th from bottom with a not so reasonable 12%. The stats above clearly show where it has gone wrong for us this season. The interesting thing is that we United fans didn't really need statistical analysis from some random website to tell us that our chance conversation rate is nothing short of a disgrace, we see it week in week out. It is an ever-present constant that has plagued us all season long (and I mean constant!).
Excuses, excuses, no one likes or cares for them, but you could at least consider the circumstances before you rubbish the idea entirely.
Congrats on winning the league by the way
This is a very good point and something he is most definitely responsible for.
You are exactly right. If any top 5/6 team took all their chances they would be 38-0-0, with 400+ goals scored. It doesnt matter how many chances you have its putting them away.
Good post.
If this time next year the football is still shite - off with his head!
Major doubts as to whether he's the man to get us back to the top are starting to creep in for me now.
We have been truly awful recently.
We have been truly awful recently.
The sack after 1 season?
5th manager in 4 seasons? Worse than Madrid?
Are you serious?
Sacking a lot of managers does not really hurt Real or Chelsea.
Because they have a top class squad who needs only a manager.
When we get a squad like them we can start sacking manager every 6 months as we like.
My way of thinking is this:
- if he buys attackers in the Summer, but those attackers turn into 6 league goals per season attackers (like the rest of our existing attackers), you can't blame Jose.
- if however, he keeps faith with our current attack and they deliver another season where they score very few goals, then Jose has to be responsible and should be fired.
LVG was fired, because he got rid of our attackers and kept back Rooney. Rooney then went on to score 8 league goals. This was LVGs risk and he had to go. He could've had a better season, had he predicted (like so many of us did) that Rooney was finished and that we needed 2 new strikers, to rotate with Rooney. Had he done this, we'd have scored more goals and he'd still be here. Jose should suffer the same fate next season, if we continue to score 0.5 goal/game, which we are currently doing.
- if he buys attackers in the Summer, but those attackers turn into 6 league goals per season attackers (like the rest of our existing attackers), you can't blame Jose.
- if however, he keeps faith with our current attack and they deliver another season where they score very few goals, then Jose has to be responsible and should be fired.
LVG was fired, because he got rid of our attackers and kept back Rooney. Rooney then went on to score 8 league goals. This was LVGs risk and he had to go. He could've had a better season, had he predicted (like so many of us did) that Rooney was finished and that we needed 2 new strikers, to rotate with Rooney. Had he done this, we'd have scored more goals and he'd still be here. Jose should suffer the same fate next season, if we continue to score 0.5 goal/game, which we are currently doing.
Have CFC or Madrid had 5 managers in 4 seasons?
Genuine question.
If the manager gets his attacking players and they under-perform then he should rightly share the blame.
If he spends big in the summer and gets the three or four signings he wants and we are still playing the same shit way 10 games into next season then he should go.
Lets say he bought MSN in the Summer, for example and they each scored 6 league goals next season (similar to all our attackers right now), then how can you put the blame on Jose?
How can he have predicted that MSN would all turn into average/poor attackers?
Remember LVG told our players to do the back/side passes and not to take risks, but Jose is not telling that to our players. He wants our attackers to attack and score goals.
If you can not get goals with MSN you might not be cut out to be a manager.
There is other way to see it also. Real or Chelsea NOW have top squads because of the different contribution by the various managers they had in the last 6-7 years. For example this Real Madrid side that is on the verge to win double CL was build from Jose, polished by Ancelotti and Benitez and fine tuned and maintained by Zidane. The thing is this club bought only quality during the transfer windows with few exeptions and constantly upgraded its first team, no matter who is the coach in charge. This is your main problem since SAF retired - your poor signings and the fact that 3 managers already are failing to up the level of your team.
I just feel that a manger who has the chance to pick his own players to fit his tactics should be criticized if they flop.
There is a constant at Real Madrid and Chelsea; they both have people that want to have the best players at their team (Abramovich and Perez). Our owners use our club as an asset, so Ferguson was the man that looked after the footballing. Now we have Ed Woodward who knows nothing about football and throws money around like its nothing.
Luckily Jose is starting to bring top quality players back into the team. But it is important for the club to either hire another top manager like Ancelotti after Jose leaves or to get a director of football and hire a younger manager.
Managers got very few effect on Madrid transfers than what you think. Ancelotti had no control at all on the team and Perez was buying and selling the players he wants. Benitez did nothing.
These clubs are board based more than manager based regarding transfers. Us are more manager based in our transfers.
If the squad is as bad as some suggest then he would need to spend a lot of money to make it a decent squad.
i have little time for Mourhino, but he deserves more time.
In saying that the football on the whole has been fairly dire, and he comes across as dull as feckin dishwater.
In saying that the football on the whole has been fairly dire, and he comes across as dull as feckin dishwater.
Why sack the manager. Three managers on the trot cant be crap. Not enough quality in the attack, too many sick note defenders. That wont change from sacking mourinho.
Jose has done well making us hard to beat. 2nd best defensive record in the league. Joint 2nd clean sheets, 1 behind league winners. Given our low number of goals conceded and our relatively low number of saves bodes well for the defensive game. How he's done that with this crop of players is mind boggling.
For the players it would be their lowest league position in these last 3 seasons.
Should get the sack if next year things have regressed or still the same. We can't afford to keep languishing in 6th consistently.
Conte won the PL in his first debut season. No hint of fecking about hiding behind and moaning about excuses such as fatigue, squad quality,transition or fixture pileup. No. He just got on with it.
Conte won the PL in his first debut season. No hint of fecking about hiding behind and moaning about excuses such as fatigue, squad quality,transition or fixture pileup. No. He just got on with it.
I agree with your first part if things are still the same this time next year then it will be game over, particularly as he never goes more than 3 years at a club anyhow
Regarding Conte and the excuses part. Chelsea have just had a season with no European football, playing once per week so the fatigue element is non existent. Coincidentally Leicester won the EPL the season before with no European campaign.
I dont buy the fatigue excuse. If that were the case, teams like sunderland would be in with a shout at PL as they had no EL or UCL. Furthermore, we competed consistently on fronts despite having a full run of competitions, even managing to win the double, PL or the treble in 99.
It's more of grossly underestimating the squad during transfer season last year and failing to account for potential injuries in such a physical league It's bizarre given that he is no stranger to the PL.
A total overhaul is needed in June ,not just buying 3 or 4 players and hope they paper over cracks with individual brillance.
Weren't we the best defensively last season though? Having almost the same defensive stats as the league winners but scoring so many fewer goals just shows we have to sacrifice our attacking play to get that solidity.
None of their players have even made 45 appearances
works every time
What a stupid point. Nobody is saying that the fixture congestion is the only thing that cost us this year, but it does put us at a disadvantage compared to our rivals. Obviously the quality of the squad has a massive bearing on position too, but I'm confident that if we swapped our fixture list with any of Arsenal, Liverpool or City we'd be above them in the league right now.
We competed on three fronts and won the treble in 99 but that was an historic achievement that is still celebrated and revered 18 years later. Why was it such an amazing achievement? Why doesnt the best team in any given year regularly win a clean sweep of trophies? Why are even doubles relatively rare? Because fatigue makes it bloody difficult.
Mourinho goes on too much about the fatigue thing, he makes out we are victims of something other than our own success, which is bullshit. But it is a real thing. Its just a real thing that he has to live with, not something he should be whinging about.
If we don't qualify via Stockholm we need a new manager. Jose would have failed.
No, not really, tell me about it.
Really? Maybe he should want his midfielders and defenders to contribute to attacks too? Anyway, he's not hired to want stuff, he's hired to deliver.
Complaining about the fixtures is asinine. It's set in stone and no amount of whining can change it
. Maybe if he hadn't grossly underestimated the squad like the 2 managers before him and the physicality of the league bearing on injuries, we would've been better off with capable personnel to take the place of those injured or reduced the chance of injuries occuring from overplaying in the case of injuries, or in the case of quality, would have been in a better chance to finish loads of the wasted chances we've spurned this season.Any team worth its salt would shrug off the challenge of fixture congestion if it had been prepared properly and rotated. It's just excuse to divert attention from the lost chances to catch up with the top 4 earlier in the season. Challanging for trophies is not new to Mourinho, he is a seasoned manager that competed on many fronts(winning the treble with Inter etc) and attained the treble while also being in the PL for most of his career. He should've known that fixture congestion is real yet persisted with a squad that had already been proven to be under qualified for 2 years running and thin and hoped his 3 signings could paper over the cracks.
I don't give a shit about luck as far as i am concerned with we could have finished x chances about the number of missed chances we have this season. You make your own luck on the pitch and can make more/finish if you're capable enough.
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Yes and buying 3 or 4 players for the past few seasons have worked out everytime.
Face it, our squad needs a clearout at the same time and bringing capable people in. We have average/injury prone players in almost every area of the squad and lack the cutting edge player/players that would've won us the title a la RVP/debut Rooney/RVN/Cantona. Pogba is a step in the right direction but him alone won't change anything. The squad has been due an overdue since 2013 when SAF retired.- Status