[gormless]

They were all plagued with injury from their teenage years onwards. I think you're wrong on their peak being 19 anyway.

In any case I'm talking about all things being well and normal players don't peak at 19. Can't believe I'm having to say that.

Nah, I agree, your post got me thinking out of idle curiousity and was trying to think of examples.

 

[Nanotron]

Dont see much difference between himself and players like zaha. When he first burst on the scene he seemed like he had a terrific brain. Now i cant see that in him at all.
Frustrating as i had him down as the next big thing.

Beating a man running into a dead end or ballsing up the end product is as useful as doing feck all at all and its happening too often for him.

Im expecting more from him before I him put on the pedestal that a lot seem to have already put him on.

 

[Dobbs]

Dont see much difference between himself and players like zaha. When he first burst on the scene he seemed like he had a terrific brain. Now i cant see that in him at all.
Frustrating as i had him down as the next big thing.

Beating a man running into a dead end or ballsing up the end product is as useful as doing feck all at all and its happening too often for him.

Im expecting more from him before I him put on the pedestal that a lot seem to have already put him on.

Never mind us lot, you've already been there done that. You just told us:

i had him down as the next big thing.

 

[Dobbs]

It must be hard work following a team when your opinion on a player swings wildly from one month to the next. Particularly with young players.

For those who are in a constant state of flux, relax, let time and experience do its thing.

 

[Nanotron]

Never mind us lot, you've already been there done that. You just told us:

Yeah initially you make a mental note. Obviously you can only judge on and speculate on what you have seen on any particular amount of games. But after a few seasons, I see a few things which dont make him stand out as much over others.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Missed yet another absolute sitter today. Keeps on making too many wrong decisions. What the feck was he thinking trying to chip the keeper from there?

 

[Home&Away]

When Rashford first came through he looked like the type of striker who would be at the right place at the right time and score a goal when we needed it.

Right now, I feel like he tries to hard - too much dribbling, too much passing and trying to beat his first man.

I'm sure he will go back to progressing towards becoming a predatory striker; he just needs to find his true self.

 

[RedRover]

I like Rashford but criticism isn't detrimental. He's being judged through what he does on the pitch and rightfully so. He isn't in that 'react like a 5 year old just recited Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star but got words wrong and pretend we don't notice' zone when it comes to evaluating his appearance that we tend to keep players in for far too long- which IMO will be beneficial for him in the long run.

Noticing when he hasn't played well is more a sign of his progress than pretending he's done well when he hasn't.

He's being held to far too high a standard for a player of his age and relative experience.

Being critical of a player is fine when they've not played well (albeit, I think he did alright today) but writing players off after a bad game or two is tedious. I've said it before in here - some modern fans expect far too much from young lads. It happened too Martial and now it's happening to Rashford.

Young players need time to develop. Early promise is fine but without games they'll never get on. He's doing fine in my opinion and I'm glad to see Jose giving him a go.

 

[mav_9me]

He's being held to far too high a standard for a player of his age and relative experience.

Being critical of a player is fine when they've not played well (albeit, I think he did alright today) but writing players off after a bad game or two is tedious. I've said it before in here - some modern fans expect far too much from young lads. It happened too Martial and now it's happening to Rashford.

Young players need time to develop. Early promise is fine but without games they'll never get on. He's doing fine in my opinion and I'm glad to see Jose giving him a go.

I agree. Love his attitude, always trying, never gives up. Great movement. He is clearly a striker. Of course needs to improve his finishing.
Only thing that concerns me is his dribbling is not under control.

How he never lets his head drop is amazing given how many times the things he tries don't come off.

But no worries. He'll get the game time needed to improve. Clearly Jose trusts him.

 

[MadMike]

He's being held to far too high a standard for a player of his age and relative experience.

Being critical of a player is fine when they've not played well (albeit, I think he did alright today) but writing players off after a bad game or two is tedious. I've said it before in here - some modern fans expect far too much from young lads. It happened too Martial and now it's happening to Rashford.

Young players need time to develop. Early promise is fine but without games they'll never get on. He's doing fine in my opinion and I'm glad to see Jose giving him a go.

Who on earth did that? I think some people take every bit of player criticism as some sort over the top reaction.

Rashford has all the time in the world and will surely only get better. All that's being said is that he's being a bit like last season at the moment (i.e. bad in front of goal) while Martial seems on fire and thus perhaps deserving of a run in the team ahead of Rash.

 

[psychdelicblues]

I am questioning his minutes per season in 1819 if he keeps on performing like this throughout this season. Then again funny things might happen if he does not improve in 1718, 1819.
He is a good lad and he needs to learn lot of things like - timing of pass/dribble and finishing.

Do you live in a time machine?

 

[Nighteyes]

He is not very good. Technique is okish, dribbling is bad all he does is head down and run fast. Effort is there but talent is lacking. Finishing is abysmal and might cost us in one big match this season. At best will be a squad player for us down the line. Hope he prooves me wrong but i do not see anything great in him. Him being 19 doesnt guarantee him being better than he is now later on in his career.

I was going to say this is harsh but then I remembered this comes from a guy who thinks Rashford is a Championship level player. Just utter crap.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

He's one of the most exciting united players on the books at the moment.

His problem is composure.

But what he's doing at his age, the different roles he's played, constantly adapting to new team mates with different styles...I think it proves he is a class player in the making.

It took Cristiano Ronaldo 4 years to score in the CL, but that didn't stop him from breaking records later on.

 

[khoazany]

Who on earth did that? I think some people take every bit of player criticism as some sort over the top reaction.

Rashford has all the time in the world and will surely only get better. All that's being said is that he's being a bit like last season at the moment (i.e. bad in front of goal) while Martial seems on fire and thus perhaps deserving of a run in the team ahead of Rash.

If there's someone that needed to be dropped from that front four it's Mata.

 

[Oscie]

He's being held to far too high a standard for a player of his age and relative experience.

Being critical of a player is fine when they've not played well (albeit, I think he did alright today) but writing players off after a bad game or two is tedious. I've said it before in here - some modern fans expect far too much from young lads. It happened too Martial and now it's happening to Rashford.

Young players need time to develop. Early promise is fine but without games they'll never get on. He's doing fine in my opinion and I'm glad to see Jose giving him a go.

He's a regular starter for Manchester United, in his third season as a first team player at the club. That's the standard he's being judged at and rightfully so.

The whole obsession we have with insisting that it's being anti-youth unless we pretend home-grown players never have a bad game until they're 28 is bonkers. Players are allowed dips in form, underwhelming performances. It's natural. Rashford is too good to be put in the Jesse Lingard game where we have to insist he was "brilliant" every game, else we fear that we're not as big a fan as the next guy.

Genuinely don't get why some people are so relentlessly insecure about noticing when a player we've produced has a poor game.

 

[Maradona10]

This is very harsh. Rashford IMO didn't fulfill the job of keeping width well this game since he made wrong decision in coming central too much. But it's just that decision making. Finishing, dribbling is the same. He tried to be too clever for his own good. It's clear he is still inexperienced.

He would get better. The thing is there is too much extremity in judging our youngster potential. One group is all about overrating and the other seriously undermining.

Umm so you say he dint do his job, couldnt dribble and couldnt finish yet find my assessment harsh?

 

[Brightonian]

In the first half he created pretty much all our opportunities. Sure, he probably should have scored one of them. But he still did more good stuff in that first half than Mata, Miki or Lukaku. It would be daft to drop him.

 

[Litch]

Honestly no one has the monopoly on knowledge and the forums all about opinions but that said, some of the rubbish on here about Rash is stupidity at best. It reminds me of the crap comments about Giggs 'no end product' and 'one trick pony' Ronaldo. Honestly there is not a team in the world who wouldn't want this 19 year old lad. Anyone forgot the goal that put us in final last year? The free kick anyone? Goals against city and Chelsea.....hitting the post last week out of nothing? Scoring on his debut at every level? People's memories are short and let's enjoy the fact he's here and he is still developing. He needs to be more cynical but even if he's not a 30 goal a season player, his pace and power will always put teams on the back foot creating space for others. The players take the piss out of him cause they say how ridiculous his ceiling is, and at 24/25 I fully expect the Barca and Real vultures to start circling as the Bales, CR and Messi's will not be around forever.....

 

[Maradona10]

He's by no means the finished article but his ability to beat a player, make things happen and be a constant thorn in the side of the opposition marks him out as a player who could become very good indeed. The suggestion that he just puts his head down and runs is bizarre. His pace and control has experienced players backing off which indicates what he's all about.

Added to that is a regular ability to turn it on when it counts, as he has done over the last year or so.

Sometimes I honestly think people expect far too much of young players these days. As with Martial last year some fans love to write them off at the first sign of an iffy game or nit pick over small things. He may not ever develop past his current level but you could say that of any young player. As it stands I'd say he's doing fine.

I expect what i do from a manutd player. It doesnt matter if you are 16 or 60, if you put those colours on you need to do your job. He couldnt keep wide, he couldnt score, he couldnt dribble. But hey he is young so lets play him and hope he becomes better. Martial at similar age is much better technically and is showing in past two games he can finish his chances. I think people get too involved in youth and forget they support the club and not youth products.
Rashford would not start for top 10 in the premier league if he was playing elsewhere.
Talk about his pace and control has experienced players backing off yet his contribution is minimal, experience players back off cause thats what you do and let him make the decision which he more often than not fecks up. Its like theo walcott and waiting for him to realize his potential all over again.
He misses far more chances than any top team striker should and is keeping a better player on the bench.

 

[Oscie]

In the first half he created pretty much all our opportunities. Sure, he probably should have scored one of them. But he still did more good stuff in that first half than Mata, Miki or Lukaku. It would be daft to drop him.

Perhaps a case for Mata but Miki created the assists and Lukaku has 3 in 2 games. Plus if you dropped Mata and replaced him with anyone else then you're shifting the shape of the winning team unnecessarily. I wouldn't be against him starting the next game but I think Martial has put his claim in and there's only really one candidate he can replace without it requiring the boss the significantly restructure what's so far been a winning team.

 

[Welbeckham]

Why is he slated here? Our most dangerous attacking player in the first have yesterday. His finishing has been very underwhelming so far this season but he's a brilliant talent, which only a fool would deny. His technique is better than most people acknowledge. Just needs to be more simple, direct and ruthless. Always comparing him to Martial is tired, why can't we just be happy to have both? Both will get starts eventually. Seeing them together on the field again would be interesting.

 

[Litch]

Why is he slated here? Our most dangerous attacking player in the first have yesterday. His finishing has been very underwhelming so far this season but he's a brilliant talent, which only a fool would deny. His technique is better than most people acknowledge. Just needs to be more simple, direct and ruthless. Always comparing him to Martial is tired, why can't we just be happy to have both? Both will get starts eventually. Seeing them together on the field again would be interesting.

Agree. On here in order for someone to be good, the logic is the other has to be bad. We are now in the Rash v Martial debate. I'm like you, at some point we are going to have both in the team and those two spearheaded by Rom hopefully for the next 5 years is a very exciting prospect....

 

[ti vu]

Umm so you say he dint do his job, couldnt dribble and couldnt finish yet find my assessment harsh?

I talked about this game only where he might get the boo from Swansea fans into his head and make bad decision in numerous of thing. Lacking talent like you put? No it is not what I said, and that is the harshness coming from your part. Can't ever dribbling, can't ever finish? Again, not what I said.

If we're to talk about West Ham game, despite being less productive go by the score sheet in compared to Martial, Rashford contributed more and got into the team to play for Swansea on merit. So there he did his job very well.

 

[Brightonian]

Perhaps a case for Mata but Miki created the assists and Lukaku has 3 in 2 games. Plus if you dropped Mata and replaced him with anyone else then you're shifting the shape of the winning team unnecessarily. I wouldn't be against him starting the next game but I think Martial has put his claim in and there's only really one candidate he can replace without it requiring the boss the significantly restructure what's so far been a winning team.

I'm not suggesting you drop Lukaku or Miki, just pointing out how daft it would be to drop Rashford when all our first half penetration came from him. We'd have created almost nothing in the final third of the pitch for the best part of an hour without him.

Mata is the one who could be dropped - he looks good as ever, but maybe not necessary with Pogba and Miki in there too.

I'm all for giving Rashford a go on the right, since he's played good games there for us. Then Martial can come in on the left.

 

[Kevin]

Overrated.

 

[Maradona10]

This boy has been delivering in big games his whole career; Chelsea last season, Arsenal debut, Manchester derby, European debut, Anderlecht and Celta Vigo winners in QF and SF of Europa. He didn't cost us at all, that chance that he missed was created on all of his own doing. I doubt other players in our squad would have anticipated that miss from the Swansea defender in the first place; and had the speed, touch to get to the position he was in. Just let himself down with that finish - but he created it from nothing.

He was great today, his technique is above average. He was banging out flip-flaps, he did a brilliant piece of skill where he spun around the defender and accelerated and he was an overall nuisance for Swansea. He's only 19 and his skillset is only going to get sharper. It's just people are expecting him to turn into Lewandowski over Summer, by the time he's 22/23 we'll reap the rewards from playing him. We're lucky not only to have a prospect like him but the fact that he's English and Academy raised is something special.

Maybe you're just disappointed Martial didn't start but that's no reason to take it out on Rashford who had a fairly good performance. They both are on the same team and are fighting for the same cause.

First things first, it doesnt matter to me that martial dint start, if he did shit i would call him shit too. Like he was last season. I dont think there was much difference .
He created 19 chances in 32 league games last season martial while playing less minutes and games created 24 (25 appearances) and has started the season better. You just listed his few good games and i dont even think you can or should count teams like Anderlecht or even celta vigo considering the chances we missed in them. He doesnt create shit from nothing, its what you have filled your head with. What did he do after that skill? Nothing. if you want to see skills rather than end product we are in a different game.

Now to the Bolded part, that is the biggest problem with some united fans. "hey look he is english and from the academy so lets give him a free ride". Its bullshit. Fergie said if you are good enough you are old enough, not if you are young and english welcome to the starting eleven. Clearly rashford isnt good enough now. He is at best a bench player for us and shouldnt make the squad like andreas perreira doesnt. It is just the fact we lack a second attacker as if perisic or anyone else had come in rashford would be on the bench. We are not lucky to have him, he is lucky enough to play for us week in week out despite not being good enough yet. He is lucky that his manager is giving him so many chances without return, same goes for lingard and shaw .
This Man utd, being english shouldnt be a criteria for someone to play for us. The only reason we delayed wayne's departure was because of his englishness, I was happy when welbeck left some were distraught cause he was english and decent at best. I think 16 million for him were robbery by us.
Rashford is on a similar career path unless he improves, i think jose is not sentimental and will put him to the bench if he gets his signing.

 

[Litch]

First things first, it doesnt matter to me that martial dint start, if he did shit i would call him shit too. Like he was last season. I dont think there was much difference .
He created 19 chances in 32 league games last season martial while playing less minutes and games created 24 (25 appearances) and has started the season better. You just listed his few good games and i dont even think you can or should count teams like Anderlecht or even celta vigo considering the chances we missed in them. He doesnt create shit from nothing, its what you have filled your head with. What did he do after that skill? Nothing. if you want to see skills rather than end product we are in a different game.

Now to the Bolded part, that is the biggest problem with some united fans. "hey look he is english and from the academy so lets give him a free ride". Its bullshit. Fergie said if you are good enough you are old enough, not if you are young and english welcome to the starting eleven. Clearly rashford isnt good enough now. He is at best a bench player for us and shouldnt make the squad like andreas perreira doesnt. It is just the fact we lack a second attacker as if perisic or anyone else had come in rashford would be on the bench. We are not lucky to have him, he is lucky enough to play for us week in week out despite not being good enough yet. He is lucky that his manager is giving him so many chances without return, same goes for lingard and shaw .
This Man utd, being english shouldnt be a criteria for someone to play for us. The only reason we delayed wayne's departure was because of his englishness, I was happy when welbeck left some were distraught cause he was english and decent at best. I think 16 million for him were robbery by us.
Rashford is on a similar career path unless he improves, i think jose is not sentimental and will put him to the bench if he gets his signing.

Didn't know Stevie Wonder was a Utd fan?

 

[Kevin]

First things first, it doesnt matter to me that martial dint start, if he did shit i would call him shit too. Like he was last season. I dont think there was much difference .
He created 19 chances in 32 league games last season martial while playing less minutes and games created 24 (25 appearances) and has started the season better. You just listed his few good games and i dont even think you can or should count teams like Anderlecht or even celta vigo considering the chances we missed in them. He doesnt create shit from nothing, its what you have filled your head with. What did he do after that skill? Nothing. if you want to see skills rather than end product we are in a different game.

Now to the Bolded part, that is the biggest problem with some united fans. "hey look he is english and from the academy so lets give him a free ride". Its bullshit. Fergie said if you are good enough you are old enough, not if you are young and english welcome to the starting eleven. Clearly rashford isnt good enough now. He is at best a bench player for us and shouldnt make the squad like andreas perreira doesnt. It is just the fact we lack a second attacker as if perisic or anyone else had come in rashford would be on the bench. We are not lucky to have him, he is lucky enough to play for us week in week out despite not being good enough yet. He is lucky that his manager is giving him so many chances without return, same goes for lingard and shaw .
This Man utd, being english shouldnt be a criteria for someone to play for us. The only reason we delayed wayne's departure was because of his englishness, I was happy when welbeck left some were distraught cause he was english and decent at best. I think 16 million for him were robbery by us.
Rashford is on a similar career path unless he improves, i think jose is not sentimental and will put him to the bench if he gets his signing.

Excellent post.

 

[RedRover]

Who on earth did that? I think some people take every bit of player criticism as some sort over the top reaction.

Rashford has all the time in the world and will surely only get better. All that's being said is that he's being a bit like last season at the moment (i.e. bad in front of goal) while Martial seems on fire and thus perhaps deserving of a run in the team ahead of Rash.

Some are, as I said, in my opinion being far too critical of him, not his performances.

As an aside Martial has come into two games which were almost already won. Rashford was arguably our only outlet yesterday in the first half. Both will get plenty of games I suspect and both need to be given a chance.

 

[Kevin]

Some are, as I said, in my opinion being far too critical of him, not his performances.

As an aside Martial has come into two games which were almost already won. Rashford was arguably our only outlet yesterday in the first half. Both will get plenty of games I suspect and both need to be given a chance.

? I didn't see the game yesterday but by all accounts Swansea was pushing and we were on the ropes a bit looking like it might be another one of those 2016/17 draws just before Martial came on?

 

[Litch]

? I didn't see the game yesterday but by all accounts Swansea was pushing and we were on the ropes a bit looking like it might be another one of those 2016/17 draws just before Martial came on?

Not at all. Swansea were pushing for an equaliser with a couple of dangerous crosses but you expect that in the prem, he brought Felliani and Tony on which I thought that allowed Pogba to break and play further forward, and he was instrumental in the goals including scoring himself....

 

[ti vu]

? I didn't see the game yesterday but by all accounts Swansea was pushing and we were on the ropes a bit looking like it might be another one of those 2016/17 draws just before Martial came on?

Swansea got desperate and changed their initial tactic/shape leaving Martial's preferred space. Swansea threatened us or even built up very little. There was a shift in tactics for both sides when Martial being introduced. Martia's task was different than Rashford. Arguably Martial played more central role in final third when he came on, which was not possible priorly, given Swansea initially set up to congest space in central area and we cried out for some quality play out wide.

 

[Kevin]

I respect your explenations but 1-0 up to the last ten minutes in an away fixture and alot saying scoreline flattered us. "came on when the game was already almost won" is a bit of a stretch I'd say. Last season one such random desperate attacks you speak of in the final minutes from our opposition would go in and then the game changes. No guarantuees at that point.

 

[Adisa]

Would like to see him on the right at some point.

 

[Litch]

Swansea got desperate and change their initial tactic/shape leaving Martial's preferred space. Swansea threaten us or even build up very little. There was a shift inn tactics for both side when Martial being introduced. Martial task was different than Rashford. Arguably Martial played more centrally role in final third when he came on, which was not possible, given Swansea initially set up which congested space in central area and we cried out for some quality play or wide.

Spot on. We are more a counter attacking side at that point with Swansea pushing for the equaliser and therefore creating space which wasn't there before it. I personally don't think the score line flattered us, one team was trying to win the game, the other trying not to lose it. With that mentality playing at home, you get what you deserve. The game last for 90+ mins so that's what you play to. If your winning yet still pushing for goals and you score them with 5 mins to go, that's what you deserve isn't it....Kevin?

 

[Rick88]

It is a weird position right now. He is running the defence ragged with his runs. His final third play is seriously lacking (including his finishing). Martial is slowly proving a point as to why he should start. My only worry is that if he (Martial) doesn't do too well in a match and is subbed off for Rashford while chasing a game, Rashford's wastefulness will hurt us. Let's see how Jose handles it.

Regarding Rashford's poor finishing, remember how Suarez's first season at Lverpool panned out. Coudn't hit a barn door. The next season when Liverpool almost won it, man he was banging them in. Hopefully Rashford will also have a similar trajectory in his finishing.

 

[Dobbs]

His game has clearly improved over the last six months which is great. Control of the ball, variety, physically, all going in the right direction. Decision making is usually the last piece of the jigsaw with young players.

 

[MadMike]

Some are, as I said, in my opinion being far too critical of him, not his performances.

As an aside Martial has come into two games which were almost already won. Rashford was arguably our only outlet yesterday in the first half. Both will get plenty of games I suspect and both need to be given a chance.

I don't agree with either of these statements. Winning 0-1 away from home, the game is not won. It was won after Martial and Fellaini came on and Swansea made their own changes.

And also there was really no outlet in the first half. Our best chances were from set pieces (the goal and Jones hitting the post) and the chance Rashford got was because of a bad back pass from a Swansea defender, it wasn't created by movement or skill. So I don't see him somehow as the best outlet of that half. If anything I liked Mkhi's movement more, though I thought no one really stood out.

 

[Sammyjunn]

You lot are so tiresome. The agenda's are clear. Fwiw Martial starts the next game and struggles because the match doesnt open up much later in the game, and he plays like the lazy Martial who doesnt make runs off the ball and is static. They are playing two different roles in the same position. Rashford was much better than Lukaku, Mkhi, Pogba, Mata the 1st half, shame of the chance he missed but he did very well again. Martial has been excellent too but lets see if Martial can do what Rashford does when the game is tight, before putting Rashford next to the likes of Lingard.

 

[RedRover]

He's a regular starter for Manchester United, in his third season as a first team player at the club. That's the standard he's being judged at and rightfully so.

The whole obsession we have with insisting that it's being anti-youth unless we pretend home-grown players never have a bad game until they're 28 is bonkers. Players are allowed dips in form, underwhelming performances. It's natural. Rashford is too good to be put in the Jesse Lingard game where we have to insist he was "brilliant" every game, else we fear that we're not as big a fan as the next guy.

Genuinely don't get why some people are so relentlessly insecure about noticing when a player we've produced has a poor game.

I'm not insecure about anything I just don't understand why fans are so keen to jump online and lay into a young player after a game like today. He was willing, worked hard and for most of the first half was the only player - among a lot of other more experienced, who looked like he'd make something happen.

Being critical of a player's performance is fine. You might think a young player should be held to the same standard as others in the side and long term, that of course has to be the case since if they're going to be regulars they have to be good enough to meet that standard. I personally think Rashford offers a lot and has shown it time and again - but he's young, raw and needs a chance to develop and in light of that I'm inclined not to be as critical in terms of end product at this stage since that tends to come later with young players.