As with players like Iniesta or Zidane, most of Messi's creative contribution doesn't actually show in statistics. Giving an ultimate relevance to stats is wrong, and it shows the lack of basic understanding of the game. Equally pointless is counting cup trophies as a final argument.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
I don't really get the second point. Messi was at 17,18 already good enough to play for one of the best teams in the world, Ronaldo wasn't. Some here act like Ronaldo would have done great at a big club too back then, but no he wouldn't. He was in Portugal for a reason and then needed time to adapt to the PL and really got only to his high level within some years while Messi was basically awesome his whole career. For me that's another point for Messi and weird to use as something to defend Ronaldo.
In fairness to Ronaldo, most people that aren't sure who's better will probably vote against him. He's just a very polarizing figure. I hardly ever hear people they're just fine with Ronaldo but can't really be bothered. You love him or you hate him. He's a showman, he flexes his muscles on team photo's, doesnt hesitate to agree he's the best in the world and can look bummed when a team mate scores. Messi is much more of a grey mouse (is that a saying in English?) in that respect. I think Messi is the best player I've seen play, but I'm not a Messi fan at all. I applaud his skills but everything else about him just seems, for lack of a better word, meh.
Pretty much all non Madrid fans I know hate Ronaldo with the burning intensity of a thousand dying stars whereas all the non Barca fans I know think Messi is really good and can't be bothered about him. This definitely works in Messi's favor in a poll.
That being said, Messi is hands down the better player for me.
Pretty much all non Madrid fans I know hate Ronaldo with the burning intensity of a thousand dying stars whereas all the non Barca fans I know think Messi is really good and can't be bothered about him. This definitely works in Messi's favor in a poll.
That being said, Messi is hands down the better player for me.
Messi at 17, 18 is probably better than Ronaldo at 17, 18. But I am merely pointing out that you can't compare stats of forward vs midfielder
There is way too much focus on stats here. Both players have insane stats anyway. And I genuinely don't understand how one can say Ronaldo is as creative as Messi because of the assist stats. Surely if you watch both players it's not controversial to say that Messi is clearly more creative?
So your point is Messi was better at a younger age, that I actually agree with.
But that doesn't make him the better plyaer overall.
Stats help because while a throughball looks better, it's just as creative as a well placed cross.
Opinion-wise, Messi is clearly more creative is a correct statement for me, whereas Messi has always create lot more goals than Ronaldo is statistically inaccurate.
That's true. But yet again, just by basing my judgment on what I see I find Messi to be more creative.
It's because assists are not by any means an ultimate measure of footballing creativity. Again, I would guess that Iniesta or Zidane didn't always have superior assist stats in their teams. I would even guess that sometimes full backs or wingers had more assists during the season.
Seeing this question being posted on social media, so here goes.
Who's performance was better? Ronaldo vs Sweden, or Messi vs Ecuador?
Who's performance was better? Ronaldo vs Sweden, or Messi vs Ecuador?
I've no idea how you could try to separate them, two hat tricks in very tricky away games when their teams needed it the most. Not worthy of debate.
An 8 nil romp isn’t very “tricky” tbf. Sweden are pure shite these days. Even Ireland looked good against them.
I'm referring to the 2013 game.
I think this is fair. However, if I was going to give the edge to either one it would be to Ronaldo. Since the game in 2013 was a playoff, Sweden had everything to play for. Last night's game only meant something to Argentina, Ecuador were already done.
Ah, I had no idea that was the case, thought they really had something to play for.
Both great performances. But I'd give slight edge to Messi due to the really poor form Argentina have been in. Also I seem to remember Moutinho being phenomenal in that game, so it wasn't all the ronaldo show
Oops. My bad. Massive brainfart. I somehow flipped Sweden's 8 nil win into an 8 nil defeat and (wrongly) assumed it was against Portugal. Go me!
I can't even remember the 2013 game. What makes it memorable?
Why does everyone say Ronaldo is a flat track bully because he scored 15 goals in 10 games against "nobodies" , yet Messi only scores 7 in 18 games , then it is his team that is letting him down?
It was the WC play-offs and ended up being as much a 1v1 contest as your ever likely to see in football.
Portugal were leading after a first leg 1-0 win at home, with Ronaldo the scorer. The second game ended up being a Ronaldo/Zlatan shoot-out, Ronaldo took the lead, Zlatan pulled two back and it looked like Portugal were on the brink before Ronaldo hit a late pair of cracking goals to finish Sweden off.
Last edited:
Moutinho doesn't get enough credit.
Nar, you simply can't "give en edge to Messi" because Moutinho was also really good @TheRedScot or because Argentina have been in poor form, Portugal were also in "poor form", hence why they were in the play-offs in the first place . And are you telling me the rest of Argentina were shit last night, did the first goal not get put on a plate for Messi by Di María was was also excellent in the game?
Did Ecuador have anything to play for like Sweden, did Ecuador have a player of Zlatan's talent to really ruffle Argentina?
As I say, it's a daft debate, both hit cracking away hat-tricks when their side needed them the most, trying to favour one over the other can only be born out of personal preference for a player.
Last edited:
World cup play-off.
It was a pure Ronaldo vs Zlatan, both scoring 3 and 2 goals respectively. Brilliant display from both players to try drag their team over the line.
Gotcha. I didn’t watch it. Don’t think I’ve ever watched a WC play-off that didn’t involve Ireland.
This debate will never end.
These two are in another league compared to everyone else. Both spur each other on to greater levels.
CR7 has been better these past couple of seasons, Euros 16 win and back to back Champions League. Amazing achievements, complete forward who has worked extremely hard to be the best player in the world.
However Messi is a gift, a natural and undoubted genius. I understand most people are biased to individual players who have played for their respective team or country, but being a football fan first I can unashamedly say Messi is the greatest of all time.
These two are in another league compared to everyone else. Both spur each other on to greater levels.
CR7 has been better these past couple of seasons, Euros 16 win and back to back Champions League. Amazing achievements, complete forward who has worked extremely hard to be the best player in the world.
However Messi is a gift, a natural and undoubted genius. I understand most people are biased to individual players who have played for their respective team or country, but being a football fan first I can unashamedly say Messi is the greatest of all time.
Messi has like 10000 times the pressure Ronaldo has on his NT, even despite Argentina being a pretty much average NT, not much better than Portugal.
If one of them wins the World Cup next year, it will end the debate forever. But I don't see either of these teams winning it. The favorites would be Brazil, Germany and Spain. Then, we have France, Belgium, Portugal and Argentina in the next tier. No one else has a chance.
Yeah maybe personal preference is slightly affecting my nod to Messi. However no argentina player played to the standard that Moutinho did in the in that game. Not only where Moutinho's assists breathtaking he also dominated the game. Messi was by far and away the best player on the park last night. The same cannot be said for Ronaldo in his game. Moutinho and Ibrhiamovic's performances equal to Ronaldo's on the night.
I know that a lot of people would think this way even if either actually didn't play well during that WC which is really stupid....
Not playing and your team winning seems to be seen as superior to playing and losing.
Messi, Messi Messi. It comes down to personal preference. For me Messi is the GOAT
Yeah, Moutinho's assists were magistral, some of the best I've seen (the geometry and weight), and Almeida's was too (quick thinking and vision). None of them were for tap-ins though, they were all great runs and finishes by Ronaldo. His best game in the NT by far.
Last edited:
That's the way it is though. In the end, no one is going to remember how well you played if you don't win it. The trophy is all that matters. Messi vs. Maradona is still a debate only because Maradona won it even though he cheated his way to it. In club level, Maradona is not even close to Messi based on trophies, goals and awards.
And an Ecuador team who were already out are mighty opponents?
Great goals, all of them - the commentators though
You only say that as an Argentinian yourself (I assume from your location). Both has pressure from the fans and I'm sure both put pressure on themselves as professionals.
It's radio commentary, tends to be more noisy and frantic.Great goals, all of them - the commentators though
Argentina are regulars in the latter stages of WC before Messi came along.
Portugal only occasionally qualify for the WC before Ronaldo, and now they qualify every time.
I think the Argentina are average debate is over stated and just stupid. Look at the talent they have in their team. No excuse for not winning or competing for all national honours.
Ah, that explains most of it. I came across some similar examples on net radio, not my cup of tea though.
- Status