[NoPace]

Unless we learn from what they are doing over there. It's not as if we don't have the resources to buy big. It's not as if we can't get a manager ourselves who believes in playing that way as well. It would take some humility to start copying their blueprint but this is the way football is going now.

Over the decades football is slowly becoming less about physical contact and long balls and more about skill and passing. Pitches have improved , ball are lighter , and the rules are changing to reward attacking play.

The Peps of the world are the future. Jose IS a dinosaur and we have to accept it and move on. Otherwise City will become more like United than we are.

I can understand hiring Jose after Moyes and Van Gaal were duds, and we're definitely a better team under him, but yes, the next manager should be someone who prioritizes scoring goals over not conceding them.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Now that's passion from the little guy. I bet he had a few pints to take edge off when he got home. I've been like that after some defeats, but I was very calm yesterday for some strange reason.

 

[minoo-utd]

Still very disappointed. Our few minutes after we conceded in the first half were really good, why we didn't have enough balls to play like that to go at them to not be that scared to attack them IDK! What hurts me that they are not far away from us as some mentioned, what i have seen yesterday that they just play their game and we gave them much much respect and were panicking with our touches, team talk wasn't great it seems. Hope we learn from this defeat and look forward and the negativity is not helping at all so much negativity in this forum after what happened and it's really sad.

 

[royboy16]

Because right now we are paupers, relative to the players and resources at Guardiola disposal.

As soon as Pogba got red carded, almost every fan feared we’d lose. We then had to cope without Bailly and Fellaini too, severe losses against a very strong and mostly fit City squad.

They are more advanced in evolution, had more investment and delivering unprecedented results: reminds me abit of our complete dominance in PL the year after the treble.

The board have some big decisions to make about what is our genuine ambition and will have to outspend City for a few transfer windows if they want to stop them creating an mini era of success.

Do you think they will do that ?

 

[Ban]

Do you think they will do that ?

Maybe they won't outspend City but they will give the money needed.

 

[Lentwood]

We don’t need to outspend City necessarily but we do need to make a decision

Do we support Jose and go full throttle in the Summer - no more half measures, no more haggling over a few million here or there, and sign the 6/7 players we need to challenge?

Or

Do we continue to buy two or three players a Summer, sticking to a pretty rigid budget and accept we can’t really expect much more than 2nd for the foreseeable?

Unfortunately I think it will be option two because unlike City we have shareholders to please!

 

[unitedirish1985]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However regarding Mourinho's tactics it was evident for all to see that the long ball over the top didn't work . We tried it on over 30 occasions and lost the ball to City each time. It only worked on the equaliser by fluke as Delph misjudged the ball and even that was dissimilar to the rest as it was within City's own half.

Regarding Mata, he is similar in style to Silva (albeit not as good granted). Nonetheless Silva is not expected to track back to the same degree as the rest and we should have used Mata in a similar fashion (to find a through ball). We needed creativity but both Matic & Herrera were bereft of attacking prowess, something Mata would have addressed.

As outlined with the exception of De Bruyne & Silva, show me a position where City are stronger indiviually than us? Had Pogba played he would be our nearest player to match De Bruyne in terms of vision and passing ability.

Given our players are as good as City on a man for man basis, the difference is clearly formation, tactics & the manager's motivational ability to obtain the best from his players.

 

[sammsky1]

Do you think they will do that ?

The sheer size of transfer fees means we're probably talking a net spend in excess of £275m. That should allow for 4 players of sufficient quality.

But City will also upgrade to we need to judge relative to their spend.

there is a new TV deal coming soon which will stuff our Bank accounts so club could advance spend some of that.

I think the club simply has to go for broke and back Mourinho, else we won't get a look in for a few years more.

 

[desmondisback]

Now that's passion from the little guy. I bet he had a few pints to take edge off when he got home. I've been like that after some defeats, but I was very calm yesterday for some strange reason.

This guy is brilliant. Despite the fact that he doesn't exactly sound that eloquent or thoughtful there's a lot of wisdom in what he says.....

 

[desmondisback]

Still very disappointed. Our few minutes after we conceded in the first half were really good, why we didn't have enough balls to play like that to go at them to not be that scared to attack them IDK! What hurts me that they are not far away from us as some mentioned, what i have seen yesterday that they just play their game and we gave them much much respect and were panicking with our touches, team talk wasn't great it seems. Hope we learn from this defeat and look forward and the negativity is not helping at all so much negativity in this forum after what happened and it's really sad.

I agree. Their players are not gods compared to ours. We have a better goalkeeper and defence and some great attacking options. It's just the managers. For example , imagine swapping Sane for Martial or Mata for Silva or even De Bruyne for Pogba? How good do you think those City players would look in our team with Jose's tactics? Conversely it's easy to imagine the United players looking utterly world class playing in the City team under Pep.

Crap tactics make good players look bad and vice versa.

 

[Thunderhead]

Too many people getting hysterical over this result. We were missing our first choice CB's. I know we slate fellaini on here but he was vital in this game & a big miss. Pogba, enough said. In hindsight we should have played Ibra from the start. We have gone into the game missing 4 players who would/should have started.

City on the other hand were only missing Mendy. Stones was also out but there's nothing between him & Ottamendi. The latter came up with the winner also.

You can't go into these kind of games with this many players out. They were also extremely lucky on the day with 2 scruffy goals.

We did very well in the end to restrict them & they were rarely threatening.

You have their CB's as Mangala & Stones/Ottamendi, lose either KDB/Silva, replace Fernandinho with Gundogan. Would anyone see anything other than City being thrashed.

Is Namco back

More shots on target, more shots off target, more corners, more possesion

In a season how many times can a team put out its best XI, due to suspensions and injuries I reckon maybe 6 or 7, you've just got to stick it up that's why both clubs have obscenely expensive squads

I honestly don't think we got out of 3rd gear, really think in the first 20 sterling or Jesus should have done better then at 1-0 we had 2 great breaks where KDB and Sane just weren't on the same wavelength where normally we'd have a least made the keeper work, for all you're missing pogba I honestly believe if we had our best XI out against your best XI we'd still beat you.

 

[Ramshock]

Statman Dave breaks down what went wrong well.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Is Namco back

More shots on target, more shots off target, more corners, more possesion

In a season how many times can a team put out its best XI, due to suspensions and injuries I reckon maybe 6 or 7, you've just got to stick it up that's why both clubs have obscenely expensive squads

I honestly don't think we got out of 3rd gear, really think in the first 20 sterling or Jesus should have done better then at 1-0 we had 2 great breaks where KDB and Sane just weren't on the same wavelength where normally we'd have a least made the keeper work, for all you're missing pogba I honestly believe if we had our best XI out against your best XI we'd still beat you.

Of course your best eleven would beat ours. City bossed the game and showed they are the best in the country by some distance, as the league table shows. I've said it many times, but there are still too many average players in the United squad for us to compete with City, PSG, Barcelona at the moment. We've wasted tens of millions in the transfer market, largely thanks to LVG, and are now playing catch up again. It can't be fixed overnight; we have five or six players to ship out and replace. Jose needs more time, but City's form is turning up the pressure on him to expedite the improvement process.

 

[cyril C]

Of course they would've been it kept them 8 points clear, we know the mentality of city they play to win every game but if there was 1 game a year where they would settle for a draw this would've been it due to them literally not needing a win at all and you desperately needing it.


Fair enough I genuinely cannot think of anything to say if you think the difference between your two teams yesterday was luck and not quality.

Don't know if you call this luck or not, when Pogba got himself a straight red which was unnecessary, when MK suddenly AWOL for 2 months, when Jones and Bailey got injured. If we had been fielding our best 11 then I am sure there is a fight. Mourinho did what he had to do so don't criticiing his tactics; It was 2 bad goals that we normally do not give away. So perhaps it was bad luck for Mourinho, reflection time for the squad if they want to win.

 

[notcool]

What did we expect was going to happen? That we were going to 'have a go' at them? What does that mean? Does it mean that we would try to press and fight them for possession? Jose wasn't ever gonna do that against this City side. What he wants is renunciation of the ball. Yell all you want about ROW JOE but I see Rojo hoofing it for what it really was: not committing a mistake. City had a lot of the ball but what did they do with it? Their goals came from set-pieces: something we can normally be expected to eat up. Minus those two goals and what do you have? A 0-0 win for us. Jose got his tactics spot on and I hope to see many more games like this. Glory Glory etc.

 

[cyril C]

What did we expect was going to happen? That we were going to 'have a go' at them? What does that mean? Does it mean that we would try to press and fight them for possession? Jose wasn't ever gonna do that against this City side. What he wants is renunciation of the ball. Yell all you want about ROW JOE but I see Rojo hoofing it for what it really was: not committing a mistake. City had a lot of the ball but what did they do with it? Their goals came from set-pieces: something we can normally be expected to eat up. Minus those two goals and what do you have? A 0-0 win for us. Jose got his tactics spot on and I hope to see many more games like this. Glory Glory etc.

I can see a little bit more than that. We contained City on field, they have lots of possession but not many shooting opportunity. When we were 1 goal down, without personnel change, we speed up the tempo and got a goal back. It should be perfect execution to Mourinho's game plan during 1st half, I don't see why people were complaining.

In 2nd half we conceded another stupid goal, before we could push another button, Pep replaced a striker with a MF. Salute to him because he saw it through, and we could never regain our momentum.

Had Mourinho have his way, it would have been 0-0 1st half, then possibly a sucker punch in 2nd half. Much like what we did to Chelsea.

Why do people expect an open play muscle to muscle against City? Mourinho never did this while in Inter, Chelsea. And in fact even during LaLiga derby, he did counter-attack against Barca anyway.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Overall I would not consider this game to be so negative. For me it has been clear for a while that City will win the title this year.
Pep did a really good Job and they look not just like the best English side right now by quite a margin but I would also consider them to be up there with Real, Bayern, Barca and Paris.
We made some pretty Basic defensive Errors and played to deep instead of pushing them a bit more. Otherwise at least a Point was there to grab. Jose's tactics were not too far off.

What is worrying is how much worse we look overall without Pogba.

Also we have a bit of striker crisis right now. Ibra does not look the same anymore (what is understandable of course) and won't help us too much. Lukaku is trying but unfortunately his weak Points become more and more obvious.

 

[Mr PG]

Absolutely! Lukaku is becoming a scapegoat. Those two mistakes happened in the defensive area. He's not a defender. If his clearance hadn't unluckily ended up in a goal and he had been more lucky with his chance and had scored then no-one would have said anything.

Mous tactics didn't suit him anyway. Sitting back and often relying on hoof tactics , not easy for a striker. I'll admit he wasn't great , but responsible?? Doh!

TBH both Lukaku clearances hinted at nerves. The header for a guy his size was pathetic I mean who the feck heads down facing your own goal right? Having said that our pathetic tactics were the reason we were even there at that point.

 

[el3mel]

Absolutely! Lukaku is becoming a scapegoat. Those two mistakes happened in the defensive area. He's not a defender. If his clearance hadn't unluckily ended up in a goal and he had been more lucky with his chance and had scored then no-one would have said anything.

Mous tactics didn't suit him anyway. Sitting back and often relying on hoof tactics , not easy for a striker. I'll admit he wasn't great , but responsible?? Doh!

First, any tall striker is always dragged back to defend in set pieces and he should be good at heading and cleaning the ball in these set pieces, because these aren't skills you need to be a defender to make it. As a striker he should be good with his and his leg should be enough to throw the ball out.

Both goals were dead ones. The first he should have won the header, he lost and a goal. Second one it was a meaningless et piece. He was completely free. There was zero pressure on him zero pressure !! He had all the time in the world to get the ball down and throw it away. How can he not take blame of this beyond me.

Second, the second part doesn't make sense because his previous team used to set back as well, maybe even more.

 

[AllEyezOnMe]

Take this as a pinch of salt if you like guys. I know a few people who attended the game and sat near the tunnel. When the players walked through, they saw a bunch of City players jumping up and down with hand gestures of 2-1, along with today's reports of them mocking Zlatan, I would not be surprised if it is true. Although said in light hearted banter, Zlatan has just returned from a serious knee injury, so he is bound to move gingerly.

The issue I have with this is, Pep sides are known for this. He was known to provoke or have his players provoke when he was at Barcelona and then underlines it like he has not done anything wrong. It was a classico game I watched when Ronaldo asked for the ball from Pep and he threw the ball away from Ronaldo in a provocative manner and then played it off like he was joking or did nothing wrong. Imagine if Jose did the same and the outcry afterwards.

Overall I genuinely believe Sundays post match fracas was down to City filming a documentary, were not allowed cameras and were told by the documentary maker to over exaggerate if they won. Reason for the confetti, the exaggerated tunnel celebration and the mockery of Zlatans movement etc.

Jose must have heard what happened in regards to the celebration, approached Citys dressing room and asked for more respect. But him being the pantomime villain, it will be played the opposite and he is being made to look like a sore loser.

 

[desmondisback]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Cheered me up

Please , if the board are watching , put this guy in charge!! Our next manager!! He'd be crap with the media but we'd sure play with a bit of ummpfff and pride.

 

[unitedirish1985]

I agree. Their players are not gods compared to ours. We have a better goalkeeper and defence and some great attacking options. It's just the managers. For example , imagine swapping Sane for Martial or Mata for Silva or even De Bruyne for Pogba? How good do you think those City players would look in our team with Jose's tactics? Conversely it's easy to imagine the United players looking utterly world class playing in the City team under Pep.

Crap tactics make good players look bad and vice versa.

It exactly what I have been saying. I think too many on this thread are getting carried away saying there is a gulf in class between the two sides. On a like for like basis, with the exception of De Bruyne and Silva , City players are not betters than ours. Even with the aforementioned (Pogba and Mata come close).

It is the management style and tactics that are the key differential here, with Mourinho antiquated tactical approach the main obstacle

 

[MZX7]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However regarding Mourinho's tactics it was evident for all to see that the long ball over the top didn't work . We tried it on over 30 occasions and lost the ball to City each time. It only worked on the equaliser by fluke as Delph misjudged the ball and even that was dissimilar to the rest as it was within City's own half.

Regarding Mata, he is similar in style to Silva (albeit not as good granted). Nonetheless Silva is not expected to track back to the same degree as the rest and we should have used Mata in a similar fashion (to find a through ball). We needed creativity but both Matic & Herrera were bereft of attacking prowess, something Mata would have addressed.

As outlined with the exception of De Bruyne & Silva, show me a position where City are stronger indiviually than us? Had Pogba played he would be our nearest player to match De Bruyne in terms of vision and passing ability.

Given our players are as good as City on a man for man basis, the difference is clearly formation, tactics & the manager's motivational ability to obtain the best from his players.

It might be easy for us United fans to think that the City front line and the United front line are equal in quality, but that's definitely not the case.

The player who has always scored against us, one of the best strikers in the league, Aguero was on the bench! Do you think if Aguero was a United player and was fit and available, he'd be on the bench on Sunday??

Also, we can rave all we want about Rashford and Martial (and rightly so in the case of Martial), but Sterling and Sane have worked extremely well in Pep's set-up and so has Jesus.

Rashford was playing on the right and was thus less effective. Lukaku...well..was being Lukaku. Definitely not United quality. And Martial decided to take the day off. Along with them we had Lingard, and despite his performances in a few (two) games recently, he's always considered a squad player at best.

Apart from having Pogba unavailable, we suffered badly from not starting Mata to link up play, from Mkhitaryan being out of form and out of favor and also, to a certain extent, Fellaini who would've been a good asset at breaking up play in the midfield.

We are a class below City in terms of squad quality and depth and it showed. Glaringly.

Yes, the tactics were out-of-place too. Mourinho probably decided to take the day off as well.

I don't know how much longer we have to wait to be able to stand up to City and destroy them. At least at home.

We have been relegated to being the noisy neighbors since the departure of Fergie.

 

[Ban]

So Sky is saying Noel f. Gallagher has said Jose's hypocry is staggering.

Before standard round of Jose bashing starts my question is why does Sky even ask Gallagher anything? Let alone about football?

 

[Ashley R1+O]

We don't have the personnel to what?

Take on their press, dominate them and win the match in 'style'. I thought that was quite an obvious point, but there you go. That style of hard pressing football is awful to play against, if you can't take it on toe to toe and you know you cant, there is no point trying. It will just end up being a cricket score, like Liverpool have been racking up cricket scores but pretty much running in place in the league.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Take on their press, dominate them and win the match in 'style'. I thought that was quite an obvious point, but there you go. That style of hard pressing football is awful to play against, if you can't take it on toe to toe and you know you cant, there is no point trying. It will just end up being a cricket score, like Liverpool have been racking up cricket scores but pretty much running in place in the league.

So get the players in to do so, sadly our manager seems content having a team that can't do so. Sell players, adding to our already massive budget, sign the required personnel and then go out there and play some football.

 

[RedorDead21]

So get the players in to do so, sadly our manager seems content having a team that can't do so. Sell players, adding to our already massive budget, sign the required personnel and then go out there and play some football.

We could have Veratti and Pogs in there against City and I'd still expect to get dominated all over the pitch because they have a way of playing.....we have a disjointed approach based on individual players....would never control a match vs Silva and DeBruyne with the 2 mentioned! 2 technically gifted players playing at their peak right now in a system built on their strengths.

 

[RooneyLegend]

We could have Veratti and Pogs in there against City and I'd still expect to get dominated all over the pitch because they have a way of playing.....we have a disjointed approach based on individual players....would never control a match vs Silva and DeBruyne with the 2 mentioned! 2 technically gifted players playing at their peak right now in a system built on their strengths.

Then change the way we play, us having 0 shots at goal and 25 % possession at home in 40 mins against our main rivals is ridiculous.

 

[Coops73]

Ok, I’ve had a few days to sober up and get over the disappointment so here’s my 2 peneth worth.

We were shit, shitty were better, but we’re they that much better? Ok all the possession, we knew that was coming but they only created a couple more chances than us and the goals they scored weren’t the tiky taky media wank fest that they like to label them with, they were shit, scrappy goals, well assisted by the dire pointatyou Lukaku, in fact I don’t remember Dave having that many crucial saves to make.

I for one am not giving up on catching the cnuts, we’ve done it before but I concede that it’s going to be extremely difficult but the one thing that angered me more than Jesus not getting booked for diving or lukakus constant pointing and not scoring or peps fecking mug, was the sight of that utter knobhead Noel Gallagher on the Sky panel, what the feck were they thinking? or was it just another anti United stunt that rears its ugly head when we play that mob or Liverpool, it’s getting beyond a joke.......and breath.

 

[Robochop]

I for one am not giving up on catching the cnuts, we’ve done it before but I concede that it’s going to be extremely difficult but the one thing that angered me more than Jesus not getting booked for diving or lukakus constant pointing and not scoring or peps fecking mug, was the sight of that utter knobhead Noel Gallagher on the Sky panel, what the feck were they thinking?

This fecked me off too. Are they going to get Ian Brown on for the return at the Council House. It was bad enough when they used to get that no mark Summerbee on. Thankfully they let him go when the bitterness came spilling over after the Rooney derby.

 

[RedorDead21]

Then change the way we play, us having 0 shots at goal and 25 % possession at home in 40 mins against our main rivals is ridiculous.

Not sure Maureen tells us to play like this. His porto team played class football and goals wise all his teams excel. Our players are just struggling right now Im not sure its his instructions or what.

 

[Bastian]

Please , if the board are watching , put this guy in charge!! Our next manager!! He'd be crap with the media but we'd sure play with a bit of ummpfff and pride.

That's worse than some of the worst bits of the Arsenal fan tv...

 

[buckooo1978]

Not sure Maureen tells us to play like this. His porto team played class football and goals wise all his teams excel. Our players are just struggling right now Im not sure its his instructions or what.

why would you think it's not Mourinho

they are his cowardly tactics......

we got lucky against Spurs with a knockdown and created virtually nothing, we were pathetic at Anfield, we were lucky not to lose at Arsenal, we were soundly beaten by Chelsea and City

across these games how much shots on target did we have- about 10 max and our goals against Arsenal, Spurs and City have been down to defensive mishaps on their part

it's clear that Mourinho goes into those games with a plan to not lose and with a lack of attacking organisation or plan - it was the same last year and it will be the same next with more expensive players

 

[RedDevil@84]

we got lucky against Spurs with a knockdown and created virtually nothing, we were pathetic at Anfield, we were lucky not to lose at Arsena

We played in 3 different styles in those matches. What are you talking about? There was no common thing in those 3 matches.

it's clear that Mourinho goes into those games with a plan to not lose

Arsenal match does not match with this comment at all.

 

[buckooo1978]

We played in 3 different styles in those matches. What are you talking about? There was no common thing in those 3 matches.

Arsenal match does not match with this comment at all.

those 3 games we lined up differently but the tactics were nearly identical.... long ball football and barely any chances created - to memory we created 1 decent chance against Liverpool when Lukaku missed, a couple vrs Spurs including Lukaku hitting post before we got lucky with a Lukaku flick on and a mistake from a Spurs defender. there was no sparkling football in any of those games and it was a cowardly approach

Arsenal game we were gifted 2 goals and he reverted to sit back I felt - On another day Arsenal do serious damage with their 5 expected goals

you aren't satisfied with the approach in these big games are you surely?

 

[Coops73]

This fecked me off too. Are they going to get Ian Brown on for the return at the Council House. It was bad enough when they used to get that no mark Summerbee on. Thankfully they let him go when the bitterness came spilling over after the Rooney derby.

That’s exactly what I said to my brother but knowing them they’ll get in the mighty Mick Hucknall, gald ‘elp us.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

So get the players in to do so, sadly our manager seems content having a team that can't do so. Sell players, adding to our already massive budget, sign the required personnel and then go out there and play some football.

Yeah, sounds easy. It takes time and patience. We won't develop a strategy based around beating one or two teams, the players need to take responsibility and up their game and it takes time, patience and the right personnel.

 

[gulli_G]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/17/manch...inho-dressing-room-beating-tottenham-7165778/

If this and their antics at OT does not motivate us to smash them next season nothing will.

 

[FCBarca]

it's clear that Mourinho goes into those games with a plan to not lose and with a lack of attacking organisation or plan - it was the same last year and it will be the same next with more expensive players

Indeed it’s always been clear, apart from the dark arts which were never football, he has used more or less the same approach to facing Guardiola and Pep has typically outplayed Mou

I don’t see that changing anymore than I could envision a Mou side going toe to toe against a Pep team but we’ll see with Pogba if he’ll show more courage at the Etihad on the return

 

[Red71]

The collective wank fest in the media over City makes me cringe tbh and now it’s well and truly spilled over into the Cafe, more’s the pity.

There’s so much about all of this that disturbs me but most of all how quickly everyone has bought into the bull shite.

Mourinho is being criticised by our own fans for playing in the most effective and efficient way to get a result. It didn’t pan out but should have imo. Fair play for having a game plan. I can’t stand all these posts talking about “cowardly tactics” nonsense. It’s just so naive.

I don’t know, maybe I’m just getting grumpy in my old age but pep really p’s me off as does the majority of his tedious club. He’s an insufferable, smug prat and loves to tell us that he knows best, we’re wrong and they’re right. It never fails to get under my skin. I can’t believe others don’t feel the same.

He has one way of playing and whilst it’s working well atm, he wasn’t looking or sounding so clever last season. In fact, whilst we were picking up trophies, he was battling for a top 4 finish and sounding like a prima donna.

Like Wenger in the past, pep would love everyone to turn up, let their team play their game and rack up a cricket score. See Spurs and Liverpool for examples.

I personally love the fact that Mourinho is having none of it and isn’t getting sucked into going toe to toe with them or playing into their hands. Old peppy would love that. All this “parking the bus” nonsense wouldn’t have made any difference if Lukaku had managed to make a couple of basic clearances. All ifs and buts obviously but would’ve liked to have seen Shitty’s approach if they’d actually needed to chase the game and how well they’d manage to defend against us on the break. Maybe we’ll see at the Emptihad. As always, goals change games and often in the big games, the first goal is crucial.

The amount of stories that come out of that club now shows how much of a direct line into the papers they have. Without going too far off topic, their owners are extremely well practiced at PR and media spin and are well used to painting themselves in a certain light.

I guess I’m saying try not to buy into the pep myth too much, have some faith in Jose and let's see where the season takes us. I’d hate it if we let the media set the agenda for us! Bah humbug....