It's a far cry from Rafa's "Football is like a priest in a milk bottle" quote.
“The best way to defend is far, far away from your own goal” | BluesJr sings about the Blues
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Yesterday, for large portions of the 2nd half, the entire team were in the opposition half. I found this quite amazing.
So stop talking bollocks Mr OP. And don't tell me Blues Jnr is a United supporters user name. Just admit you're a Shitty fan and we'll all get along much better.
So stop talking bollocks Mr OP. And don't tell me Blues Jnr is a United supporters user name. Just admit you're a Shitty fan and we'll all get along much better.
It's Burnley. Is that an achievement? What about camping in our own box as soon as we get put under a bit of pressure? What about the total lack of a pressing game?
You're a City fan, quite clearly. Just declare yourself and stop pretending to be a United fan.
Mourinho kind of remind me of Fergie's dinosaur tactics of playing a front four and hoping his poor two midfielders manage to somehow control the game and provide the attackers with chances.
That's a stinging criticism that doesn't hurt as bad for Fergie because he used his charisma and trust in his players to do the job; it worked but boy were we dysfunctional as a cohesive unit.
The difference today is that teams are much better and smarter in addition to our weak back four not being able to hold the fort down like our previous defences were able to.
The lack of organisation and build up play is on Mourinho.
Pogba and Matic is not a recipe for long term success. Play a proper 3 with Pogba furthest and let him dictate.
That's a stinging criticism that doesn't hurt as bad for Fergie because he used his charisma and trust in his players to do the job; it worked but boy were we dysfunctional as a cohesive unit.
The difference today is that teams are much better and smarter in addition to our weak back four not being able to hold the fort down like our previous defences were able to.
The lack of organisation and build up play is on Mourinho.
Pogba and Matic is not a recipe for long term success. Play a proper 3 with Pogba furthest and let him dictate.
He’s right but you need a certain calibre to your squad to be able to do it effectively. Would love to see Pep take over Swansea and apply this philosophy without spending a penny.
Are you really that childish? It absolutely crushes me how far behind City we’ve let ourselves become. The fact so many are still in denial about this is also sad. It’ll get worse before it gets better if we don’t seriously wise up as a club.
You're a City fan, quite clearly. Just declare yourself and stop pretending to be a United fan.
Swansea has actually had some success in the past playing a high line.
I couldn't give a flying feck about City.
We do have a habit of making Burnley seem like Barcelona, so... I do agree, but we seem incapable of maintaining a high pressure. There is just too much space between our players. I partly think that is down to our goalie and defense sitting so deep.
LVG didn't have the right idea at all, he had two midfielders sitting deep most of the time and there was zero intensity for the majority of our games. He was stuck in the past and got exposed time and time again.
That's how Mourinho plays, I don't think he's ever played that style of football and at Inter Milan he won the treble playing that way
That's his phylosophy I don't think he will ever change too much about it
Probably not, but then we need to counter with style and efficiency, and we need to not defend like "children", as Mourinho pointed out. We are too often subjected to chance.
I'm sorry thats a bullshit statement. We have the third best defensive record in the league. Last gasp defending can often look like a scramble but thats what happens when you throw everything at it defensively. Against Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs we were unbelievable defensively. Given weve had people in and out of our defense too its a sign we are good defensively.
Your defence is nothing special from what I have seen, I definitely don't think it's a Mourinho defence when you look at the calibre of defender's there
His Chelsea, Real Madrid and Inter Milan teams all had much stronger defences than this United defence imo
Well we got a lot of 0-0 from it. I guess the problem was no need to defend before you actually are a goal up. After that we didn't even keep the ball that well.
Imo its not van gaal fault that our player was crap and our transfer budget didn't reach half of city back then
van gaal also didn't have the ball to drop rooney ( bad first touch = no tiki taka )
Van gaal was actually Pep Teacher, Pep got his idea of football from van gaal, their antics also similar
to execute their football you need set of world class player with world class stamina and energy, give LVG city squad and he would dominate the league as well
I agree, especially when the referees are too spineless to negate the strategy of cynical fouling when the press is broken.
Defending in modern football is shit, because cynicism reigns supreme regardless of a manager's preferred approach.
Defending in modern football is shit, because cynicism reigns supreme regardless of a manager's preferred approach.
This is nothing new or innovative. Good teams always defend from the front. Counter-attacking football is not sitting in your box and hoofing it to your target man to release the pressure. That is Tony Pulis, Sam Allardyce or David Moyes football. Counter-attacking football is about winning the ball early and faster transitions to catch the opposition off guard. We used to do the same in our pomp. Our 2006-2008 teams were excellent at it. It is only after our midfield aged and our replacements in Anderson, Hargreaves and Cleverley failed to make the step up that we stopped pressing teams and winning the ball back with as much verve as we used to.
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Nailed it.
You're a City fan, quite clearly. Just declare yourself and stop pretending to be a United fan.
Are you serious? Van Gaal Peps teacher? Cruyff clearly was. As Pep states all the time he was his mentor and idol. He was one of his advisors till the day he died. Van Gaal was his coach a couple of seasons, but the 2 have little to no relationship with eachother after that. Guardiola has never credited LVG as one of his inspirators. You could say Van Gaal was more a teacher for Mourinho as he came up under LVG during his Barca days and he did state he learned a lot from LVG.
Open the caf only to see the first three threads are about City.
Just rename it to bluecafe/plasticafe/pepcafe to make it official.
Just rename it to bluecafe/plasticafe/pepcafe to make it official.
Oh joy, another wummish "look how amateur we are compared to city" thread.
This forum is becoming a fecking pisstake.
Any blanket statement made by St. Pep will ofcourse be taken as gospel these days. He could convince some that he shits gold bricks it seems.
Obviously, City conceded least shots in league and United conceded third or second most shots in the league. He is right.
Obvious statement. It’s a shame our attackers and midfielders don’t have any ball skills and lack any sort of ball retention ability.
Martial/rashford - run into nearest defender get tackled and repeat
Lukaku - can’t even control a simple pass
Far cry from the likes of KDB, Silva, aguero etc
Martial/rashford - run into nearest defender get tackled and repeat
Lukaku - can’t even control a simple pass
Far cry from the likes of KDB, Silva, aguero etc
Jose conceded the record lower goals in PL history with his tactics, silly to dismiss that in favour of Pep's tactics.
Truth is, both are just as effective when done with the right players, especially in defense. Pep failed to implement that scheme miserably last season because his players weren't able to adapt to it. He's signed new defenders better suited to it (he can't do it without really quick players who are excellent on the ball) and now it looks good. But he need an entire XI that can keep possession the entire time, something that is really, really exhausting and any turnovers can be badly punished.
As for Jose, he needs no nonsense and quality 'defenders' to implement his strategy. We have a half baked defense with the LB especially being makeshift the whole time. Still, he has had us defending exceptionally comfortably in most games this season and he has no problem soaking pressure because he can drill that into a defense. At Inter and Chelsea he had incredibly true defenders to get that plan to work, so once he attains a similar uniform quality across our back 4 he will be a nightmare to break through. Not to mention even great attacks like City and Liverpool haven't really been able to expose us like they did to Spurs and Arsenal for example.
Overall in terms of just defense, Jose's strategy is still more reliable and has a far bigger room for error. He simply needs a back four that would be fit for most times and form the kind of understanding that would make them impossible to penetrate. His Gallas - Terry - Carvalho - Cole defense at Chelsea was phenomenal, that's his bread and butter. With the addition of a really fit top LB, a unit of DDG, Valencia, Bailly, Jones and the new LB shielded by Matic would be title winning quality for us. Although it is definitely disappointing that we didn't go for a leftback in the summer else that would have been already implemented.
But overall, Pep's statement isn't exactly true for all teams, it doesnt make a lot of sense either. You leave half the pitch for the opposition to counter, if it fails it is downright embarrassing.
Truth is, both are just as effective when done with the right players, especially in defense. Pep failed to implement that scheme miserably last season because his players weren't able to adapt to it. He's signed new defenders better suited to it (he can't do it without really quick players who are excellent on the ball) and now it looks good. But he need an entire XI that can keep possession the entire time, something that is really, really exhausting and any turnovers can be badly punished.
As for Jose, he needs no nonsense and quality 'defenders' to implement his strategy. We have a half baked defense with the LB especially being makeshift the whole time. Still, he has had us defending exceptionally comfortably in most games this season and he has no problem soaking pressure because he can drill that into a defense. At Inter and Chelsea he had incredibly true defenders to get that plan to work, so once he attains a similar uniform quality across our back 4 he will be a nightmare to break through. Not to mention even great attacks like City and Liverpool haven't really been able to expose us like they did to Spurs and Arsenal for example.
Overall in terms of just defense, Jose's strategy is still more reliable and has a far bigger room for error. He simply needs a back four that would be fit for most times and form the kind of understanding that would make them impossible to penetrate. His Gallas - Terry - Carvalho - Cole defense at Chelsea was phenomenal, that's his bread and butter. With the addition of a really fit top LB, a unit of DDG, Valencia, Bailly, Jones and the new LB shielded by Matic would be title winning quality for us. Although it is definitely disappointing that we didn't go for a leftback in the summer else that would have been already implemented.
But overall, Pep's statement isn't exactly true for all teams, it doesnt make a lot of sense either. You leave half the pitch for the opposition to counter, if it fails it is downright embarrassing.
That was an interview when they were NOT playing well?
He sort of has a point, but then he has the players to do it effectively.
Saying that, there have been games this season where we've dropped too deep too early for our own good and its come back to bite us in the ass
Saying that, there have been games this season where we've dropped too deep too early for our own good and its come back to bite us in the ass
To me feels like Jose doesnt mind a team attacking him as long as his defenders do what he told them to do. Theres a quote from Jose about possession and he said the team that has it can make a mistake so he doesnt want it all the time.
Peps an attacking coach, his idea of defending is pressing and he doesnt want the opposition near his goal.
Most teams cant take a good press so therefore Peps way is I think better in a league format. You will play a lot of teams who wont be able to break free of the press.
But in the CL he will go against braver teams. Teams with better individual qualities to make a difference. Messi/Neymar type of guys can get pressed and still walk away with the ball.
Peps an attacking coach, his idea of defending is pressing and he doesnt want the opposition near his goal.
Most teams cant take a good press so therefore Peps way is I think better in a league format. You will play a lot of teams who wont be able to break free of the press.
But in the CL he will go against braver teams. Teams with better individual qualities to make a difference. Messi/Neymar type of guys can get pressed and still walk away with the ball.
cruyff is more like his idol / role model , pep never receive football knowledge from him directly, meanwhile he played under van gaal for few years as barca captain and executing LVG tactic with his own feet & brain on the field.
Van Gaal style of football actually worked with decent player ( we had lot of possession and press high but create low number of chance more because our player were crap )
and if he wasn't such an annoying tw*t that made player dislike him
That's the thing. I wouldn't even mind our defensive play if at least we would be devastating in transition and hit teams on the counter again and again but we super defensive and slow in the build up which results in the boring mess we currently see. Also I'm not even sure counter attacking is a thing you can totally rely on as a big club in the PL since pretty much the majority of teams will park the bus against us. Sure once we are a goal up they will be forced to open up a bit and this might work but until then we better have a plan on how to get that first goal.
This is sadly far too true. Honestly, I'm on the cusp of just taking a long Redcafe sabbatical.
Our defensive record was pretty good under LvG though.
The statement is absolute nonsense. It only works if you have absolute quality players all round and even defenders who are not just quick but also very comfortable with the ball at their feet. Guess what, such a team requires huge sums of money to make, a luxury Pep has never known not to exist.
He is right but it's not that simple, you need tools to do it very expensive tools Pep, last season he couldn't he hadn't those players to do it, so don't just say it as it's so fecking simple and Ppl are stupid. It's all about money and time now to build a team with specific tactics.
Tbh, after watching the dross from Jose, I kinda miss that boring LVG football now. At least it looked like he was going somewhere, just needed better players, with Jose I can't see anything really.
We were fecking losing to be fair. We had nothing to ‘defend’ anyway.
Another Pearl of Wisdom from "The Football Oracle" and "Inventor of Football"
Thanks Pep.
Thanks Pep.
The money argument I’ve been seeing more of on here these past few months is just bitterness and toy-throwing in my opinion.
Of course, City have spent well. There is clearly method though, and I’m almost certain Jose would not have the same City squad playing the same way.
Most of City’s defensive strategy is just tactical. Not became they have the best players. Fabian Delph has been left back all season ffs, and Kompany is finished. He positions they take up allow them to control the game. Full-backs moving inside is not because Pep has ‘loadsa money’. The positions they take up to pen you in, and also to prevent a counter is also not down to money.
The money has obviously helped, although there hasn’t been that big a disparity between our spending to justify one team able to play good offensive football and us not. Likewise Liverpool. Their coaches just obviously know how to construct ruthless attacks. While we were passing up on Mané and pursuing Perisic for more money, Salah has come in and become the top scorer, in a very position we are desperate in.
We have spent enough money to be able to play a bit better than we are. In fact, we are second anyway, so the money we have spent is about right. There are obviously things we can change in terms of tactics and ideology though.
I always find it funny how Jose continually says how we ‘defend with XI players and attack with XI players’. This is exactly what City do so well. It’s all well us saying that, but they defend from the front amazingly well, and most of that is just down to positioning that closes off space.
I am confident we will improve though. I believe like Fergie, Mourinho will be pushed to take us up a level by the raising of the bar by City. We have the money to respond I think, and next year we should be closer.