Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Adisa]

I used to think there's no way a coach can fail to train off the ball movement, being aggressive, trying to win the ball back early attacking combinations.
Then I think other top coaches don't have two heads.
There are only two reasons. Either Mourinho is failing on the training pitch or the players aren't responding. Both are damning for him.

 

[JohnnyKills]

It’s got to the point where I don’t even want to watch our games, similar thing happened with Moyes and LVG. I completely lost interest in United and I’m going that way again.

Yeah I felt that way last night mate. No point looking forward to games and wasting two hours of my life each time.

 

[Yagami]

We had Martial who played almost all the games. Then Rashford played as CF with Rooney in midfield or AM.

Oh, yeah. Unlike most, I though Rooney did well alongside Fellaini and Carrick in midfield. I don't think it was the same as his first season 4-1-4-1, though. That team was built on great understandings on both flanks. Blind, Fellaini and Young on the left, and Valencia, Herrera and Mata on the right.

His 2nd season one was built mainly on Martial's individual brilliance, plus his linkup play with Rashford and Lingard near the end of the season.

 

[ti vu]

I don't think we ever tried them in said formation, though? We were more of a 4-2-3-1 if I recall. A midfield two of Carrick/Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin, Memphis on the left, Mata right, Januzaj centre,and Rooney up top. Then I forget how we lined up after Januzaj leaving for Dortmund.

Before it all fall apart, the supposed best starting XI for LVG:

--------Martial
Memphis--Rooney---Mata
-------Bastian---Schneiderlin
Shaw---Blind---Smalling---Darmian
-----------DDG

Carrick started against Arsenal in place of Schneiderlin when we're high on table, then we got spanked by Arsenal pace. Young replaced Shaw (you know what). Then thing fell apart. Valencia, Fellaini got back to the team, Martial got shunted to left forward so Rooney my captain always play stayed up top until Rashford happened.

 

[Zoo]

If we don’t go on the front foot against Chelsea at home I’ll start to have deep concerns about him.

 

[Yagami]

Before it all fall apart, the supposed best starting XI for LVG:

--------Martial
Memphis--Rooney---Mata
-------Bastian---Schneiderlin
Shaw---Blind---Smalling---Darmian
-----------DDG

Carrick started against Arsenal in place of Schneiderlin when we're high on table, then we got spanked by Arsenal pace. Young replaced Shaw (you know what). Then thing fell apart. Valencia, Fellaini got back to the team, Martial got shunted to left forward so Rooney my captain always play stayed up top until Rashford happened.

It's all come back now. Going into the season,I thought we were going to lineup with the 4-1-4-1 with Schweinsteiger in place of Fellaini, Memphis in place of Young, and with the belief that Shaw would step up and take Blind's place on the left but we just changed formations completely.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Liverpool also conceded 3 goals for the come back as they cannot defend.

no you are not spoilt nor deluded. You just need to remind yourself this is Jose managing us. He will ALWAYS play like this away in cup ties

Just because Liverpool have a rubbish defence doesn't mean we can't expect united to have a good attack mate.

It may be the 'Mourinho way' but it leaves me utterly cold. I'd rather have the roller coaster of Klopp tbh.

 

[Adisa]

The myth that you either have a good attack or good defense needs to die.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
City have only conceded one more goal than us.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The myth that you either have a good attack or good defense needs to die.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
City have only conceded one more goal than us.

And while we got the clean sheet we did not exhibit good defending.

 

[Hawks2008]

The myth that you either have a good attack or good defense needs to die.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
City have only conceded one more goal than us.

Absolutely, I always see this bullshit peddled on here. City and Tottenham are both defensively and offensively strong, many of our title winning sides were excellent on both sides of the pitch. The two are definitely not mutually exclusive but some would have you believe otherwise...

 

[BigCaine]

Big teams will open up defenses. You are looking for perfect defence which doesn't exist. Check Rio and Vida games, we conceded chances back then too and we were defensively solid.

Also playing Romero, we did well isn't it.

Every team concedes chances but the ones we do should not be happening when we are basically playing 10 men at the back in big games. Just yesterday, ddg saved a point blank header from 5 yards. A header where our players were farther away from the sevilla player than he was from our goal, Arsenal were basically camped in our penalty box, tottenham walked through our mf and tore our defense apart like the players were playing for the first time.

I don't mind defensive football in big games. But when i say defensive football i mean the one chelsea played against Barca, where other than 1 mistake there were no real chances created. Ours normally resemble a variation of the arsenal game.

Mourinho is a defensive manager but fact is take ddg out and that defensive record is going to go for a toss.

 

[kouroux]

The myth that you either have a good attack or good defense needs to die.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
City have only conceded one more goal than us.

Spot on. It's very stupid way of seeing things when you think about it.

 

[roonster09]

The myth that you either have a good attack or good defense needs to die.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
City have only conceded one more goal than us.

Yeah, it's as if we never watched balanced teams who scored and attacked well while having good defensive record.

 

[Sky1981]

I'd rather win that not win, but that isn't the argument. A manager winning in the past has nothing to do with accessing how his team is playing at the moment. It's just a tired and thoughtless argument that I see parroted around here constantly.

It's not that we won't ever play beautiful football, we just haven't fill all the missing puzzle. It's only 1 1/2 year since Jose took over, he won us 2 trophies (not that trophies is the be all and all, but it just buy him the benefits of doubt)

Not saying you're wrong or right, but probably let's wait and see how it goes, since we're still 2nd ( i know this line again), let's see at the end of the season where we stand eh?

 

[Sky1981]

Let's be honest, you and me both would be happy to see him replaced by a attack minded coach...

The thing is there's no guarantee an attacking coach can better our result, while it might look prettier but result wise nothing is guaranteed. And changing managers at this point isn't without its own risk, the next manager is still a 50/50 gamble, there's no guarantee our squad will buy his tactics, or that he has the right personnel, etc.

Answer this honestly, would you be happy if we play attacking football and finished 5th? I'm not happy with our football at the moment, but at least we have the pts, the next manager may not have both.

 

[Siorac]

It's not that we won't ever play beautiful football, we just haven't fill all the missing puzzle. It's only 1 1/2 year since Jose took over, he won us 2 trophies (not that trophies is the be all and all, but it just buy him the benefits of doubt)

Not saying you're wrong or right, but probably let's wait and see how it goes, since we're still 2nd ( i know this line again), let's see at the end of the season where we stand eh?

Look, we're never going to play beautiful football with Mourinho. He doesn't want it, he's not working towards it. The best thing we can hope for is to reach the level of Atlético Madrid at their best. That's what the aim is, not good football. It's not going to magically change.

 

[Sky1981]

Look, we're never going to play beautiful football with Mourinho. He doesn't want it, he's not working towards it. The best thing we can hope for is to reach the level of Atlético Madrid at their best. That's what the aim is, not good football. It's not going to magically change.

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.

I give you Moyes probably just a bad manager, but LVG/Mourinho aren't stupid chumps, if they can't make us work then IMHO there's something wrong it's more than simply them not being told to attack.

Barcelona / Madrid changes manager almost every 2 years, but their attacking football remains intact. We changed manager every 2 season and we're still miles behind.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football. Swap Mourinho with Zidane/Klopp/Pochetinno and he'll have a capable working squad while the swapee will look clueless managing our squad.

You might not believe it, but god forbid mourinho is sacked I bet the next manager whoever that is won't fare much different than him.

 

[Skills]

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.

I give you Moyes probably just a bad manager, but LVG/Mourinho aren't stupid chumps, if they can't make us work then IMHO there's something wrong it's more than simply them not being told to attack.

Barcelona / Madrid changes manager almost every 2 years, but their attacking football remains intact. We changed manager every 2 season and we're still miles behind.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football.

So literally every single player we had from Moyes' era to Mourinhos era has had a fundamental problem with their attacking mindset. What are we cursed?

Your saying the likes of Van Persie, Rooney were damaged (you know the guys who were champions under fergie). Then we bought Mata, Di Maria, Martial, Rashford through under Van Gaal and they also turned out with a damaged mindset? And now would you believe our luck under Mourinho we've spent 100s of millions on Pogba, Mhkitaryan, Lukaku and now Sanchez and they've also had a fundamentally damaged mindset towards their attacking play?

 

[VP89]

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.

I give you Moyes probably just a bad manager, but LVG/Mourinho aren't stupid chumps, if they can't make us work then IMHO there's something wrong it's more than simply them not being told to attack.

Barcelona / Madrid changes manager almost every 2 years, but their attacking football remains intact. We changed manager every 2 season and we're still miles behind.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football.

Where is this coming from? Our attack has been mainly rehauled from lvg to mourinho.

 

[red4ever 79]

That 'hug' with the reporter when they were discussing McTominay was telling for me.

 

[Adisa]

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.

I give you Moyes probably just a bad manager, but LVG/Mourinho aren't stupid chumps, if they can't make us work then IMHO there's something wrong it's more than simply them not being told to attack.

Barcelona / Madrid changes manager almost every 2 years, but their attacking football remains intact. We changed manager every 2 season and we're still miles behind.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football. Swap Mourinho with Zidane/Klopp/Pochetinno and he'll have a capable working squad while the swapee will look clueless managing our squad.

You might not believe it, but god forbid mourinho is sacked I bet the next manager whoever that is won't fare much different than him.

Don't think there's anything rotten with our players.
We've picked three managers with varying degrees of success but the three have the same flaw in my opinion.
All three play a passive style of football and don't believe in trying to put pressure on the opponent.
All for different reasons.
Moyes was just very bad.
LVG was too interested keeping control of the ball and to be honest, had a team with no legs.
Mourinho is too worried about the other team playing through the lines.
None of them really believe in attacking in number and going after teams.
Exchange our attack with Spurs, City or Liverpool and I guarantee you, you'll see our players looking livelier under those managers.

 

[Sky1981]

So literally every single player we had from Moyes' era to Mourinhos era has had a fundamental problem with their attacking mindset. What are we cursed?

Your saying the likes of Van Persie, Rooney were damaged. Then we bought Mata, Di Maria, Martial, Rashford through under Van Gaal and they also turned out with a damaged mindset? And now would you believe our luck under Mourinho we've spent 100s of millions on Pogba, Mhkitaryan, Lukaku and now Sanchez and they've also had a fundamentally damaged mindset towards their attacking play?

No. Just shit and lost for 3 years of changing philosophy, between SAF/Moyes/LVG/Mourinho telling them each a different perspective on how to attack, all in the space of 5 years.

 

[clarkydaz]

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.

I give you Moyes probably just a bad manager, but LVG/Mourinho aren't stupid chumps, if they can't make us work then IMHO there's something wrong it's more than simply them not being told to attack.

Barcelona / Madrid changes manager almost every 2 years, but their attacking football remains intact. We changed manager every 2 season and we're still miles behind.

Put mourinho managing City he'll show some attacking flair, but put pep in our current squad we will probably be served with the same shite of disjointed football. Swap Mourinho with Zidane/Klopp/Pochetinno and he'll have a capable working squad while the swapee will look clueless managing our squad.

You might not believe it, but god forbid mourinho is sacked I bet the next manager whoever that is won't fare much different than him.

Our attack and play would be completely different under Pep. Jose's problem is he has so many attacking players, he doesn't know what to do with them. its quite astonishing how Sanchez has declined after his first few games. He has bought Lukaku, Pogba and Sanchez, if he cant get that trio to click that's horrific management

 

[Sky1981]

Don't think there's anything tort with our players.
We've picked three managers with varying degrees of success but the three have the same flaw in my opinion.
All three play a passion style of fort and don't believe in trying to put pressure on the opponent.
All for different reasons.
Moyes was just very bad.
LVG was too into on keeping control and to be honest, had a team with no legs.
Mourinho is too worried about the other team playing through the lines.
None of them really believe in attacking in number and going after teams.

The thing is, (forget Moyes for now) Mourinho and LVG changes quite a number of teams along their career, and they don't seem to have the problem they have with united, a few tweak here and there and the team would function, or at least looks more like a football team.

 

[Sky1981]

Our attack and play would be completely different under Pep. Jose's problem is he has so many attacking players, he doesn't know what to do with them. its quite astonishing how Sanchez has declined after his first few games. He has bought Lukaku, Pogba and Sanchez, if he cant get that trio to click that's horrific management

IMHO our midfield is still the key area, you need proper midfield for the whole attacking line up to function, otherwise it'll be pass and hope something happens.

I'd wait until Jose got his 3rd midfield, and if results still bad then i'll join the bandwagon to hound him out

 

[Trizy]

Tbh we haven't turned a corner in the 1.5 years Jose has been here. If anything our attacking play is worse this season.

I think the problem lies deeper than that.

Moyes tried, LVG tried, Mourinho tried and we're still shit at attacking, something is fundamentally rotten with our players' mindset. I don't think it's that simple of Mourinho didn't tell them to attack. And that's not me defending Mourinho, I just don't think the next manager comes in, lay out his plan and suddenly we're transformed into a free flowing football.
.

False.

Moyes played good attacking football at times but when times got tough the players along with an aging squad just gave up on him, he lost the dressing room. The players just didn't respect him and he carried himself like a man who hadn't a clue so you can't blame him.

LVG wanted possession over results. He refused to let his players take a gamble or a decision on their own. In fact, there was one match (can't remember against who) where Herrera went forward and scored. Apparently LVG lost the plot with him even though he won us the game. He was obsessed with his brand of football.

Jose famous words ''if you have the ball you're more likely to make a mistake''. Jose is all about safety. Pulling our attacking players back constantly to attack, playing a safe ball, not getting numbers into the box. Similar to LVG, it's his way or no way.

There isn't a hope in hell you give a good attacking manager (Pep, Jardim, Sarri, Klopp, Heynckes for gods sake even Wenger) our squad and they play the same under LVG and Jose.

 

[Greck]

The myth that you either have a good attack or good defense needs to die.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
City have only conceded one more goal than us.

It's because to fully embrace Jose's tactical philosophy as the best you first of all have to believe that attacking football is losing football. It's why his defenders always go to the 'would you rather attack and lose?' argument. For me we are in the Bayern/RM/Barca echelon of elite clubs. These clubs absolutely are in their right to demand attacking excellence. It's clubs with smaller resources that can compromise attacking play for ambition

 

[Skills]

Tbh we haven't turned a corner in the 1.5 years Jose has been here. If anything our attacking play is worse this season.


False.

Moyes played good attacking football at times but when times got tough the players along with an aging squad just gave up on him, he lost the dressing room. The players just didn't respect him and he carried himself like a man who hadn't a clue so you can't blame him.

LVG wanted possession over results. He refused to let his players take a gamble or a decision on their own. In fact, there was one match (can't remember against who) where Herrera went forward and scored. Apparently LVG lost the plot with him even though he won us the game. He was obsessed with his brand of football.

Jose famous words ''if you have the ball you're more likely to make a mistake''. Jose is all about safety. Pulling our attacking players back constantly to attack, playing a safe ball, not getting numbers into the box. Similar to LVG, it's his way or no way.

There isn't a hope in hell you give a good attacking manager (Pep, Jardim, Sarri, Klopp, Heynckes for gods sake even Wenger) our squad and they play the same under LVG and Jose.

Van Gaals intent was always to win though. He was just completely misguided, and didn't have a clue how to do it. But in his mind you could tell he was thinking that was the way to win.

Mourinho is fundamentally a pussy. His first intent is never to lose.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yeah, meant to say when we got to the final. I think we've had to few performances over the years but generally, we'd tend to sit back and counter against most teams.

Nothing wrong with being a counter attacking team but this team is not a counter attacking team or if it is supposed to be that it’s rubbish at it. Because in 18 months they’ve not showed any kind of counter attacking understanding and to compare them to performances like Fergies team when they blitz’ed Arsenal is a stretch.

Jose’s teams do press but he uses a low block press in his final 3rd where Klopp is a mid block press and Pep, Poch high press our low block is fine but what we tend to find is players once we win in stay back. They don’t flood forward at pace and with purpose. We’ll either just hoof it to Lukaku or dally on the ball for an age.

In a way it stems back to last season when Jose had his falling out with Shaw. Think it was against Watford. We retained the ball and Shaw set off on the attack, Martial lost the ball and then Shaw was out of position as he had started the counter. It just seems to me that ever since then and even before our team is too scared to break on teams which comes from the manager. Which I guess might be due to that when you break you do leave yourself vulnerable because people get out of position and it leaves spaces if there is another turnover.

There is also in general the massive gap between Lukaku and any other player due to them being played quite deep. Personaly I think the best we’ve seen is the 3142 formation that had Martial and Lukaku up top. It’s the most complete we’ve looked for me as a team.

 

[Sky1981]

Tbh we haven't turned a corner in the 1.5 years Jose has been here. If anything our attacking play is worse this season.


False.

Moyes played good attacking football at times but when times got tough the players along with an aging squad just gave up on him, he lost the dressing room. The players just didn't respect him and he carried himself like a man who hadn't a clue so you can't blame him.

LVG wanted possession over results. He refused to let his players take a gamble or a decision on their own. In fact, there was one match (can't remember against who) where Herrera went forward and scored. Apparently LVG lost the plot with him even though he won us the game. He was obsessed with his brand of football.

Jose famous words ''if you have the ball you're more likely to make a mistake''. Jose is all about safety. Pulling our attacking players back constantly to attack, playing a safe ball, not getting numbers into the box. Similar to LVG, it's his way or no way.

There isn't a hope in hell you give a good attacking manager (Pep, Jardim, Sarri, Klopp, Heynckes for gods sake even Wenger) our squad and they play the same under LVG and Jose.

Well it's your opinion. But the common denominator in both manager dross football period is manchester united.

Both of them have managed a number of teams and didnt encounter this problem before.

Sure the bucks stops at them at the end of the day, but i honestly dont think it's that simple

 

[Adisa]

The thing is, (forget Moyes for now) Mourinho and LVG changes quite a number of teams along their career, and they don't seem to have the problem they have with united, a few tweak here and there and the team would function, or at least looks more like a football team.

Football evolves and that may explain both struggles. LVG was sacked by Bayern, the Netherland side were mostly awful to watch also.
Mourinho has also taken over the youngest attack in his career. Before Sanchez arrived the average age was in the early 20s.
It follows Hazard's claim that Mourinho doesn't really coach the attacking side of things, as I think he expects then to figure things out.
I'm not sure that is an option for young attackers.
Just look at some of the things lacking in our play, I am convinced they won't be the case if the manager lay emphasis on them.
Even with the same set of attackers, can you imagine we'd be this passive (lack of movement and aggression)with Pochettino as manager?
I can't.

 

[Nick.]

We will miss top 4 and then everybody will be wondering why we gave a new contract to a manager whose last three league finishes were 17th (I think), 6th and 5-6th.

Utter incompetence from the top brass, they just couldn't wait and see how he does at the end of the season, they just had to give him a new contract so early didn't they.

 

[rocks13]

Well it's your opinion. But the common denominator in both manager dross football period is manchester united.

Both of them have managed a number of teams and didnt encounter this problem before.

Sure the bucks stops at them at the end of the day, but i honestly dont think it's that simple

You don't believe that Manchester United can ever hope to play good football under any manager? What a very strange view.

 

[Adisa]

We will miss top 4 and then everybody will be wondering why we gave a new contract to a manager whose last three league finishes were 17th (I think), 6th and 5-6th.

Utter incompetence from the top brass, they just couldn't wait and see how he does at the end of the season, they just had to give him a new contract so early didn't they.

If he misses out, they'll sack him... contract or not.
For both our sakes, I hope we finish second and the football improves. As I said earlier, I'd only sack him if Pochettino expresses a willingness to come.

 

[Sky1981]

Football evolves and that may explain both struggles. LVG was sacked by Bayern, the Netherland side were mostly awful to watch also.
Mourinho has also taken over the youngest attack in his career. Before Sanchez arrived the average age was in the early 20s.
It follows Hazard's claim that Mourinho doesn't really coach the attacking side of things, as I think he expects then to figure things out.
I'm not sure that is an option for young attackers.
Just look at some of the things lacking in our play, I am convinced they won't be the case if the manager lay emphasis on them.
Even with the same set of attackers, can you imagine we'd be this passive (lack of movement and aggression)with Pochettino as manager?
I can't.

Pochetinno will change us, no doubt about that. I just think he won't fully get the same result he wanted with our squad. Same manager same tactical approach but with us our team would somehow play very differently with his Tottenham team.

This could be the post saf influence, it's so huge that any manager comes in wouldn't be able to change thing instantlt

 

[Sky1981]

You don't believe that Manchester United can ever hope to play good football under any manager? What a very strange view.

It'll take longer than 2 years to erase saf phylosophy and set a new identity yes.

I'm not saying we won't ever play attacking football, I'm just saying it's not as simple as a giving them a new set of tactics.

 

[Pexbo]

Would happily get rid of for Poch.

The manager of the team that are in 5th? The team that despite having the best striker in the league have only score 1 more goal than us and conceded 5 more? The team that just drew 2-2 with Rochdale in the FA Cup? The Manager of a team that haven't won anything for decades? Hell, a manager who has never won a single trophy?

 

[Siorac]

It'll take longer than 2 years to erase saf phylosophy and set a new identity yes.

I'm not saying we won't ever play attacking football, I'm just saying it's not as simple as a giving them a new set of tactics.

None of our attacking players ever played under Ferguson, basically. Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku... none of them. The only remnants of the SAF era who still play regularly are in the back five.

 

[roonster09]

It'll take longer than 2 years to erase saf phylosophy and set a new identity yes.

I'm not saying we won't ever play attacking football, I'm just saying it's not as simple as a giving them a new set of tactics.

Matic, Pogba, Herrera, McTominay, Mata, Lukaku, Sanchez - none of them played for SAF (except Pogba as a kid in 2-3 games).

How does it take years to erase philosophy that isn't even there?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

If he misses out, they'll sack him... contract or not.
For both our sakes, I hope we finish second and the football improves. As I said earlier, I'd only sack him if Pochettino expresses a willingness to come.

I don’t think they’ll sack him if he finishes outside the top 4. LVG was probably only given the boot due to the availability of Jose and there doesn’t seem to be any stand out option available at the moment except possibly Ancelotti. If he was to go then yeah i’d push for Poch but I can’t see him leaving Spurs this season as they move in to a new stadium.