Pep - Doping (?) | Are PEDs being used by footballers

jojojo

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Welcome to Manchester reception committee
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43032571

Some actual numbers on how many tests are done in England. As I've posted before - you'd have to be stupid or desperately unlucky to get caught.

1 in 4 players in the EFL weren't tested last year. PL players have 2 tests/year on average.

UEFA also do tests of clubs in European competition and some players get tested with their NT.
 

Bwuk

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Yes they are and it’s delusional to think otherwise imo.
 

Dave89

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Cyclists who are chasing £100k/year contracts and who get tested multiple times a year dope, because they see it as worth the risk. Of course footballers who are paid many times more and tested a lot less are going to do it.
 

GhastlyHun

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They are probably a good deal of Footballers using but, I do not think it is systematic.
Systematic or not, it has to be very far-spread, or there would be a lot more of calling out. Basically any amount of calling out, since there is none.
 

Keeps It tidy

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Systematic or not, it has to be very far-spread, or there would be a lot more of calling out. Basically any amount of calling out, since there is none.
That is true. In sports that had doping scandals guys were practically racing to snitch on each other.
 

B20

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Olympic athletes are mainly lone wolves. The suggestion here is 33 odd players over 3 teams in 3 different countries.
looking at other team sports like cycling that seems wholly probable.
 

SirAF

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And they rarely test in Spain. The conspiracy theorists here will probably love to find that out.
I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that doping is widespread at the highest level in any sport that has a lot of money in it.
 

B20

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When you look at testimonies from people like Zidane about the Juventus doping scandal ("The France playmaker also said he was given vitamin injections at Juventus"), the impression I get is that footballers take a very casual "how can I be doping if I never ask what is in my injections [even though my fitness levels go way up]" attitude to doping when it happens.

I don't think footballers are as dedicated dopers as cyclists, but I think there are plenty who rationalise it by simply evading it to themselves.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2004-01-27/zidane-admits-using-creatine-in-juventus-doping/125686

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1eryb9/juventus_players_won_96_champions_leaguefinal_on/
 

B20

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I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that doping is widespread at the highest level in any sport that has a lot of money in it.
Especially in sports that make it so darn easy to dope.
 

Classical Mechanic

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When you look at testimonies from people like Zidane about the Juventus doping scandal ("The France playmaker also said he was given vitamin injections at Juventus"), the impression I get is that footballers take a very casual "how can I be doping if I never ask what is in my injections [even though my fitness levels go way up]" attitude to doping when it happens.

I don't think footballers are as dedicated dopers as cyclists, but I think there are plenty who rationalise it by simply evading it to themselves.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2004-01-27/zidane-admits-using-creatine-in-juventus-doping/125686

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1eryb9/juventus_players_won_96_champions_leaguefinal_on/
Danny Mills also said they get given all sorts by team doctors and don't question it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...-would-do-almost-anything-to-get-an-edge.html
 

B20

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Classical Mechanic

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Always a good reminder.

Do you think this proves your point that there is no doping football because no one has grassed anyone up?

The Balco scandal and Operation Puerto clearly show there is a conspiracy of silence.

Let's talk hypothetical, lets say a hugely successful side, say one that won all the trophies going, the players are lauded and covered in glory. Lets say a few players that were suspicious that the team doctor had been giving them illegal substances in their mystery cocktails of 'vitamins' that they did't question being given to them at the time. What would be the actual motivation for them to incriminate themselves a lose all the respect and adulation they had received for their success. Especially in the absence of any hard evidence?

I'm certain that things will come out in the wash regarding football and football in the next 5 -20 years, when the dust has settled or through hacking of WADA computers etc.
 

Rossa

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I have no idea about Pep and doping. However, if you look at several key players for City, they are faster and has much higher stamina levels than before. How come Silva, in his twilight football years becomes a quicker, more agile player? How come Otamendi suddenly never loses footraces anymore. Either they have the most amazing fitness coach or something is a little off. De Bruyne hardly knew how to track back before and was far from quick - now he runs like a man obsessed for 90 minutes and looks twice as fast as before.
 

GhastlyHun

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However, if you look at several key players for City, they are faster and has much higher stamina levels than before. How come Silva, in his twilight football years becomes a quicker, more agile player?
But is that actually the case, or is it just a matter of perception? I'd say comparing tracking stats across several seasons is the very least needed to make such a statement. And that only gives an approximation of stamina levels, but of course motivation and the footballing system employed by the team are very influential for the distance run per game, too. Is such data available somewhere?
 

robinamicrowave

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I have no idea about Pep and doping. However, if you look at several key players for City, they are faster and has much higher stamina levels than before. How come Silva, in his twilight football years becomes a quicker, more agile player? How come Otamendi suddenly never loses footraces anymore. Either they have the most amazing fitness coach or something is a little off. De Bruyne hardly knew how to track back before and was far from quick - now he runs like a man obsessed for 90 minutes and looks twice as fast as before.
You're just making things up now.

Silva's never been a quick player (his pace and shooting have always been weak points in his game), but he has always been agile. Otamendi was never slow and rarely lost footraces - his biggest problem was always his decision-making and concentration, and I'm not sure you can inject anything to help with that. De Bruyne's workrate has always been excellent, he just plays in a deeper role under Pep than he did under Pellegrini so he's doing more work defensively.
 

SuperiorXI

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I have no idea about Pep and doping. However, if you look at several key players for City, they are faster and has much higher stamina levels than before. How come Silva, in his twilight football years becomes a quicker, more agile player? How come Otamendi suddenly never loses footraces anymore. Either they have the most amazing fitness coach or something is a little off. De Bruyne hardly knew how to track back before and was far from quick - now he runs like a man obsessed for 90 minutes and looks twice as fast as before.
Doping
 

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I have no idea about Pep and doping. However, if you look at several key players for City, they are faster and has much higher stamina levels than before. How come Silva, in his twilight football years becomes a quicker, more agile player? How come Otamendi suddenly never loses footraces anymore. Either they have the most amazing fitness coach or something is a little off. De Bruyne hardly knew how to track back before and was far from quick - now he runs like a man obsessed for 90 minutes and looks twice as fast as before.
Once again we do not really have a bunch of Woodwards and Bernsteins o here a lot of this discussion is poorly disguised bitterness.
 

Peter van der Gea

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Maybe most people are doping to some extent, but some teams have a more systematic approaches.

For example, coders in Silicon Valley have been known to use caffeine, LSD, modafinil, CBD, amongst others to have different "stacks" for different types of performance, creativity, energy, concentration.

If one team decides to use training data to design stacks for individual players, they'd get a competitive advantage over those teams who just turn a blind eye to fat burners.
 

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Players obviously take supplements like creatine and vitamins which aren't illegal but may cross the ethical line.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Don't think City outrun most teams as per the stats. According to that list which had United at the bottom of the PL for distance covered, City were about mid-table, iirc, as were Liverpool. You don't have to run like a loon in order to effectively press systematically, it's more about pressing intensely in shorter bursts and then - relatively speaking - resting when you're back in possession.

You'll probably benefit from doping regardless, but the sort of pressing City engage in doesn't require exceptional stamina across the team, if by that term you understand being able to run and hound constantly for the full 90.
 

haram

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I think in the case of Silva and de Bruyne its more to do with motivation, efficiency and better fitness programmes. You have to remember that they play higher lines and have the ball more often than not.
 

Berbaclass

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You're just making things up now.

Silva's never been a quick player (his pace and shooting have always been weak points in his game), but he has always been agile. Otamendi was never slow and rarely lost footraces - his biggest problem was always his decision-making and concentration, and I'm not sure you can inject anything to help with that. De Bruyne's workrate has always been excellent, he just plays in a deeper role under Pep than he did under Pellegrini so he's doing more work defensively.
Of course you can, both are affected by fatigue.
 

robinamicrowave

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Of course you can, both are affected by fatigue.
Otamendi's biggest problem was diving in unnecessarily - didn't matter whether it was the first or last minute. He no longer does this. That's not down to doping.
 

Berbaclass

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Otamendi's biggest problem was diving in unnecessarily - didn't matter whether it was the first or last minute. He no longer does this. That's not down to doping.
I'm simply saying that those two things can be improved by doping as you suggested otherwise.
 

BobbyManc

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How come Silva, in his twilight football years becomes a quicker, more agile player?
He hasn't.

How come Otamendi suddenly never loses footraces anymore.
He still does.

De Bruyne hardly knew how to track back before and was far from quick - now he runs like a man obsessed for 90 minutes and looks twice as fast as before.
Yes he did. And no, he doesn't. In fact de Bruyne's performances have noticeably dipped recently and it's clear as day he's incredibly fatigued and needs a rest.
 

Nucks

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Otamendi's biggest problem was diving in unnecessarily - didn't matter whether it was the first or last minute. He no longer does this. That's not down to doping.
Actually, it could be.

Here is how it could be. He was diving in because he was half a step too late, or just didn't have the get up and go to cover the guy like a wet blanket in those situations. Put him on a cycle or two, his physical performance increases by 15% or so, and suddenly, he doesn't feel stretched in those situations. He doesn't feel the need to lunge in.

For anyone who is out of shape, you can test how this works with just a little hard work. If you're in shape, you can test how this works by letting yourself slide.

If you're out of shape, go play a pickup game (whatever sport). Notice how you can't move how you'd like. You find creative ways to cheat on movements. You will foul more when defending. Now, go hit the gym and trainer for 2 months. Be dedicated. No go back and play a pickup game again. You move better. You don't need to cheat on movements you once cheated on. You CAN foul as much, but you don't need to.

That's how a guy who lunges into tackles, can go from diving into tackles he shouldn't have needed to, to stopping all off of PEDs. I'm not saying he is doping. I'm just saying that that is the kind of influence doping can have on ANYONE, in ANY SPORT. The impact of being fitter, faster, stronger goes so far beyond just being fitter, faster and stronger. It can fundamentally change how you play the game, because you're fitter and faster, everything is happening slower for you. You have confidence in your physical abilities, giving you more confidence in your mental game. Your mental game improves because you fatigue less. Your game doesn't drop off, because you fatigue less. You don't start getting sloppy, or cheating proper technique. You can play harder, for longer, at a higher level.
 

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Fernandinho came back from a hamstring injury after exactly 15 days. Is that normal?
 

Thiim

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Saw this thread bumped and straight away knew it had to be about Silva. I mean how has he all of a sudden turned into this elite presser with incredible pace and stamina.