Because we made the wrong choice in hiring Moyes. A decision that continues to live with us today.
Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)
- Thread starter Raees
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Moyes was horrible but, he made 2 signings(both who are still here) and sold 1 player while he was here.
Three and a half years, and hundreds of millions, later, we should be in a difference place.
How can you say it´s not the same? Come on, we were dominating like Bayern are doing now in that time period. And how can you turn a blind eye to the simple fact that a team constantly in the finals/semi/quarter finals of the CL must be doing something a lot better than us? And given United financial strength there must be a hell of a lot we can learn from how Bayern do things.
I agree. We can't seem to get any traction with the constant swapping of managers and "philosophies".
Yeah I am not arguing that the bundesliga is competitive as shown by the bolded bit, just the metric being used to measure competitiveness.
Twice, 06/07,07/08 and 08/09. Then lost it by one point, that everton game
It means that when you remember how dire Fergies barren years were, you understand that we have never played "attack attack attack" football all the time.
Just be
Not when you look at the sheer power of agents and money players bring in terms of PR and corporate brand value in this age.
It is indeed distinct especially now with Social media and the astronomical interest and sums of money in the game.
Fergie had to adapt. Beckham you could argue was brought to Madrid for this reason.
Agreed about the dressing room but Mourinho having enough players "on-side," including young academy graduates is his buffer.
You bet we should, they demand nothing but perfection.
No, we weren't. Not in any domestic sense whatsoever. We didn't win the league six times in a row because we played in a league where that wasn't possible due to actual competition, something which Bayern don't have. The closest parallel to the Budesliga is the French league, except Monaco have been better than Dortmund in recent years (last two at least).
We are so fecked
He does have, aye.
But ultimately a Manager decides; Pogba or any star does not control where and how the team plays.
True, and it might have cost them Neuer and Lewandowski. So they still likely would have had a better team than any PL side over the 5 year stretch...
Not always the case. At PSG the players complained when Emery was using 4-2-3-1 and Emery was forced into playing 4-3-3. And Bayern players when Klinnsmann was manager they would try to come up with how the play amongst themselves. And during the last few months with Ancelotti they were organizing training sessions amongst themselves since they felt Carlo was not training them hard enough.
It doesn't help. But sticking with the wrong manager would just be a waste of time.
I know; exactly my point.
Moyes was never the right choice but he´s not the reason. The reason is we let the team grow to old and we had players like Ferdinand,Vidic,Evra,Carrick,Giggs and Rooney at the end of their playing career, at least as the top players they were. Replacing them was never going to be done by Moyes in a couple of months but this transition was very poorly handled by the club management. Gill and Fergie leaving and letting Moyes take over with Woodward finding his feet was never going to work and a big error in judgement by all involved.
Some people on here will fault Mourinho regardless of what he does.
Yeah we are gonna give jose the boot after he wins the champions league for us this year.
Oh wait....
We will have long nuanced discussions on here and people will still come to this conclusion.
Moyes was a joker. Fergie and team left him a raft of good deals to ratify to rectify the aging problems. Unlike what LVG did with the Shaw and Herrera deals. He cancelled them all. Then even more stupidly went back for Fellaini after his cheap buy out clause expired. Moyes was a freaking disaster appointment.
No matter how bad Moyes was we can not still be blaming current issues on him.
Nuanced my arse. He plays defensive in a tough away game were even City got thrashed. (Anfield) He is labelled a coward. "Only park's the bus".
He beats a team with attacking, "He is deceiving us he will revert to type".
He sets up to attack like at Wembley vs Spurs, loses "He has no system of play. No tactics. He makes poor selections and can't get the best out of his players".
He beats Spurs, Chelsea and Pool at home with a mix of rigid tactics and counter attacking. "He clearly cant coach any attacking play, we were lucky"
He loses to Sevilla and goes out of his way to not throw players under the bus by being deliberately a red herring, "He isnt taking responsibility, his insulting the fan's intelligence".
After a dire win vs Brighton. He rightly calls out his players for moving the ball too slowly and being scared (which after the shame vs Sevilla is entirely possible) , "Liar! Our fans are the most foolish to believe he likes to attack. That was his standard M.O. heck he is even now bullying players like Shaw. His Dark triad mode has begun. Cant take responsibility..."
I dare you to dispute it all.
Bayern are far ahead of the chasing pack. Their last 6 league titles were won by a difference of at least 10 points (most of the times more than 15 points). You cannot compare that with our league wins when we had Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool (once) breathing down our neck. A few results here and there could have altered the outcome of the league. Not in any of the Bayern’s league wins though.
I was in Dortmund for their game against Bayern this season. The ambition of Dortmund fans who I interacted with isn’t even equivalent of Spurs. If that is your competition then the league is as good as over even before it started.
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I'm blaming Moyes's issue' in Moyes himself. The post I replied to was trying to make it out like Gill and Fergie left him problems. I didn't tie it to now at all.
Yet still, it cant be denied that mistake still haunts us now. Why do people think we are playing catch up to City yet SAF left us as champions?
Spot on. Its like chicken little and all his clones have invaded the cafe
Just a week ago most here were behind Mourinho. And people you were critical were told to shut up. But, since our indefensible elimination to Sevilla Mourinho has belittled the club's recent history and threw his players under the bus multiple times. That is why a thread like this exist. If it wasn't for Mourinho's ridiculous comments after Brighton this place would be a lot less negative right now.Nuanced my arse. He plays defensive in a tough away game were even City got thrashed. (Anfield) He is labelled a coward. "Only park's the bus".
He beats a team with attacking, "He is deceiving us he will revert to type".
He sets up to attack like at Wembley vs Spurs, loses "He has no system of play. No tactics. He makes poor selections and can't get the best out of his players".
He beats Spurs, Chelsea and Pool at home with a mix of rigid tactics and counter attacking. "He clearly cant coach any attacking play, we were lucky"
He loses to Sevilla and goes out of his way to not throw players under the bus by being deliberately a red herring, "He isnt taking responsibility, his insulting the fan's intelligence".
After a dire win vs Brighton. He rightly calls out his players for moving the ball too slowly and being scared (which after the shame vs Sevilla is entirely possible) , "Liar! Our fans are the most foolish to believe he likes to attack. That was his standard M.O. heck he is even now bullying players like Shaw. His Dark triad mode has begun. Cant take responsibility..."
I dare you to dispute it all.
And it will take that kind of 'feck you' attitude, to take us back to the top, by which time, these threads will probably not exist....
This thread has literally existed in other guises months before any of those things happened. Furthermore, Im baffled as to what people found "baffling' about his post match comments last night. We weren't any where near good in spite of winning. We moved the ball too slowly. We looked frozen which seemed a hungover lingering from Wedenesday. Matic was the best player on pitch and the only one passing forward and literally the match winner. All things he pointed out as making him unhappy. Just like any watching fan must have felt and he called our his players for it. EVEN Shaw who was hooked off at half time was replaced by a man who created the second goal
So what the heck was baffling? Let alone ridiculous? Just imagine if he had praised his players after that what would be said on here by the same crop of detractors...
What a load of waffle.
I thought there was a knee-jerker banner for this kind of thing?
The manager won the League Cup and Euopa League in his first season. We're in contention for FA Cup this season and will prbably come second to a freak City league win. I say freak due to the point gap and the manner in which they have had some of their victories but its a deserved win in the end.
I as a football fan enjoy challenging for and winning trophies, I'm not interested in speculative bullshit some of which you've tried to make stick by trying to interlink some performances on the pitch despite you having zilch knowledge of the actual relationship between the manager and the players. Two very public displays of that relationship however was Pogba vs Liverpool and Lukaku vs Brighton. Not sure if you noticed that at all.
We have improved from when he took the team and our personnel is much better as well. They need some more time to gel.
You can't expect to win everything every year and even though we went out with a whimper against Sevilla shit happens. The manager went on a crusade after the game and made it all about him. I think that's pretty decent protection of the players who are the ones deserved of the vast majority of the criticism.
If anything Mourniho is known for very strong relationship with his coaching staff and players so most of this post is really ridiculous but the final straw of your ridiculousness is wanting someone like Klopp managing our team. I'd rather play boring pragmatic football and win trophies than win 5-0 every game and lose when it matters.
Because it was the typical performance we have had since Mourinho has been the manager. And by his post game comments either he started teaching them to play a more attacking type of Football 2 days before and he was surprised that they did not do it or that even though he has been the manager for almost two seasons now the players still do not listen to his instructions either scenario does not put his management in good light.
Pure revisionism. We saw this very United side move that ball much faster vs Chelsea. Liverpool in first half just last weekend and vs Palace in second half the other midweek. Even vs Spurs when our defence cost us dear almost a month ago. Yet all that is in this season alone.
Spot on. Doomed whatever he does.Nuanced my arse. He plays defensive in a tough away game were even City got thrashed. (Anfield) He is labelled a coward. "Only park's the bus".
He beats a team with attacking, "He is deceiving us he will revert to type".
He sets up to attack like at Wembley vs Spurs, loses "He has no system of play. No tactics. He makes poor selections and can't get the best out of his players".
He beats Spurs, Chelsea and Pool at home with a mix of rigid tactics and counter attacking. "He clearly cant coach any attacking play, we were lucky"
He loses to Sevilla and goes out of his way to not throw players under the bus by being deliberately a red herring, "He isnt taking responsibility, his insulting the fan's intelligence".
After a dire win vs Brighton. He rightly calls out his players for moving the ball too slowly and being scared (which after the shame vs Sevilla is entirely possible) , "Liar! Our fans are the most foolish to believe he likes to attack. That was his standard M.O. heck he is even now bullying players like Shaw. His Dark triad mode has begun. Cant take responsibility..."
I dare you to dispute it all.
As vividly demonstrated by captured film of his last moments with his Inter team before moving on to Real.
Dear god are we still trying to blame Moyes !
Moyes bought Mata ( a good buy ) and Fellaini ( personally I think he is garbage but LVG and Jose obviously don't )
Moyes didn't buy these disasters
Schneiderlin
Darmian
Blind
Schweinsteiger
Lindelof
Mkhitaryan
And dare I say it Pogba
LVG was a specialist at buying mediocre players and in terms of transfers the only proven good buys since Fergie are
Mata
Matic
Lukaku
Bailly
3 of those came via Jose and one from the hated Moyes.
Moyes was a mistake but it's the players that Jose inherited from LVG that have been the main problem add them to some of the dross that has been hanging around since Fergie days ( smalling,Jones,Young,Valencia) and its clear to see how we stagnated in recent years.
I hate the defensive way Jose sets us up in the big games But maybe it is because there are so few players that he trusts to deliver for us
I haven't read a lot of posts in this thread although I'm sure many are good. But just to simplify things a bit, why is Mourinho blaming players character and mentality a problem? We've been begging for a manager to come in to our club and give the squad a dressing down since Moyes. Now that he's taking no passengers it's suddenly a problem?
Well after the Sevilla defeat he fears complecency will set in and even though we are 9pts clear of 5th place, playing the same way with lack of desire and fight could lead us to missing out on a Champions League place that is so impoortant to the club and his transfer budget
He can make that known to the players privately.
I think it's the public comments that bother some.
I'm no fan of Shaw at all. I think he should be sold ASAP, but the constant public berating doesn't seem to garner anything positive.
Everything Jose says to the media should be dull, boring and lack anything interesting at all...his job is not to help them write articles.
He seems intent on winning his ongoing battle with journalist every weekend. Which must take so much energy.
He seems intent on winning his ongoing battle with journalist every weekend. Which must take so much energy.
He could have done the dressing down in private. Ad blaming the player's "character" and "mentality" is always an easy excuse.
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