AngliaRed
Full Member
Your team needs a goal, Cup final, 5mins remaining.
You can choose Ronaldo or Messi to come on, who do choose?
You can choose Ronaldo or Messi to come on, who do choose?
....I'd choose LeBron over Kobe, quite comfortably too. The can't deliver shit died in 2011?, he's basically been the NBA Finals MVP every year since, not his fault he's battling a beyond stacked team right now. Jordan is simply the greatest sportsman of my lifetime, by an unbelievable distance too, not sure how you see LeBron as clearly being more talented than him.You may never get it.
It’s like basketball, there’s MJ/Kobe and then there’s Lebron. Sure Lebron is more talented than them but he’s not better than them. Because end of the day, any follower of basketball with half a brain if they had to choose to win a game would pick MJ/Kobe over Lebron any day of the week.
At the end of the day, it’s the guy you can trust and rely on to show up when it matters most in crunch time. Ronaldo clearly has that edge over Messi and the lesser disappearing acts.
Why the feck are they both on the bench to begin with?!Your team needs a goal, Cup final, 5mins remaining.
You can choose Ronaldo or Messi to come on, who do choose?
Hypothetically lol!Why the feck are they both on the bench to begin with?!
Because you're talking about the job of multiple players... not one. Kroos doesn't control the midfield by himself for example.Why isn't it? These chances would not even come to exist if it wasn't for these plays. Dominating the midfield is what wins you titles respectively gives you the greatest chance of doing so. Every tactical development in the past ten years had the goal of creating midfield dominance. The two strikers up front, traditional wingers and arguably even the four man backfield defense died out because coaches wanted more players in the center. The greatest teams were those who controlled the midfield. Spain, Germany and Bayern won big international titles without having a super top class goal scorer because they were dominant sides. And they do this through superior passing and - yes - dribbling. You are talking about the impact on the game, how isn't this the biggest impact a player can have?
Since Spain won Euro 2008, literally every international title won was either by a dominant team or a lucky shot (Chelsea, Inter, Portugal). Spain had Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Alonso, Germany Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Khedira and Özil, Barcelona Busquqets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, Madrid Casemiro, Isco, Modric and Kroos and Bayern Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Martinez. And people always felt that. This is why playmakers are so prestigous positions.
How come you acuse me of applying different criteria when I didn't even say what my criteria was? You're just making shit up.Also, you are talking of positioning, runs, spatial awareness and stuff like that. I don't want to take away the importance of these attributes but this brings me back to my point of you applying different criteria to Ronaldo than to past greats. Because Gerd Müller is probably the player that was the most prolific in these areas after Cristiano. And you will struggle to find a great that can keep up with him in that regard. These are important abilities, without a doubt, but not those that make you the best player.
Do you think that a player who for example is CL's top scorer for 6 years and scores more than 10 goals in WC is the greatest player of all time?Goals in quarters, semis and final of the Champions League
Ronaldo: 40
Messi: 16
Messi doesn't disappoint often and he is not a choker like a few people are claiming here but he's certainly disappointed on the big stage more often than Ronaldo. Not because of those numbers either, you'll say he might not have scored but he creates more but the problem is that has failed him too in the biggest stages.
So yes, how consistently good they are at different things doesn't matter at all if you don't put it into context.
Because Moyes was managing?Why the feck are they both on the bench to begin with?!
Ronaldo. He's a better goalscorer and you can launch high balls into the box and he can make something happen from that if all else is failing.Your team needs a goal, Cup final, 5mins remaining.
You can choose Ronaldo or Messi to come on, who do choose?
No, you don't know if I prefer it or not... I do think dribbling is more important for an offensive player than getting back on defensive set pieces for example. But if a player is 8.0/10 at dribbling, the other's a 8.1/10 and the first helps defensively then I might just prefer him. It doesn't mean I think defending is more important than dribbling.Because accolades and achievements aren't the same thing as talent on the ball...
You say talent isn't everything. I agree and give other reasons as to why I feel the way I do.
What don't you get here?
Ronaldo is better in the air, he is more athletic and he's faster. I'd agree with that wholeheartedly. My whole thing is I just don't see how it can trump talent on the ball. I'm aware that there's more to the game than technique but ultimately when it comes down to it, how can anyone prefer brute strength and athleticism over elegance and technique. Which you obviously do given you think Ronaldo's better than Messi despite admitting that Messi has more ability.
I think that's harsh. He's been carrying Barca to another title. His impact is there for all to see.This debate will rage on until the end of time ala Pele/Maradona no doubt. Lately however, BY MESSI's STANDARDS, he is not having as much of an impact as Ronaldo is. You have to admire Ronaldo's longevity. I thought he was done.
Cue Messi hatrick in the El Clasico.
‘A lot more to it’ like 600+ career goals and 250+ assists (roughly, can’t remember the exact figures for Messi)?Ability/talent/skill ≠ best footballer.
Yes Messi is the most skilled player ever. Doesn’t mean he was the best player. That’s like saying a street player with immense skill is better than Ronaldo because he has more ability. There’s a lot more to it than just that.
If you think he's better and your entitled to your opinion why do you keep arguing with those that disagree?This is what I’ve always said as well.
Cristiano is much more efficient with his energy.
Stop with this crap.Lebron dreams of having the killer instinct MJ and Kobe had, he’s a choker.
Likewise, Messi dreams of being the big game player Ronaldo is. And there’s no way around it.
A player who has been part of a winning team many times (scoring and assisting in the process) with accolades to his name disappears when it matters most?Better at disappearing when it matters most - I wholeheartedly agree.
Ronaldo, because of his aerial presence.Your team needs a goal, Cup final, 5mins remaining.
You can choose Ronaldo or Messi to come on, who do choose?
11/12 he scored twice in the second legStop with this crap.
In 09/10 he didn't show his killer instinct when Lyon knocked out Real in the last 16.
In 10/11 he didn't show his killer instinct when Barcelona went to the Bernabeu, Messi scored two and Ronaldo did nothing.
In 11/12 he didn't show his killer instinct when Bayern knocked out Real on penalties. Ronaldo missed his penalty.
In 12/13 he didn't show his killer instinct when Borussia Dortmund destroyed Real to reach the final and Lewandowski scored 4.
In 13/14 he didn't show his killer instinct in the final v Atletico. Ramos saved them that day.
In 14/15 he didn't show his killer instinct when Juve went to the Bernabeu and put them out.
Interestingly, Ronaldo has been involved in 3 Champions League penalty shootouts. He's missed in 2 of them. But post Messi's pen v Chelsea some more.
You gave examples of 6 CL games... he scored 6 goals in those 6 games. Obviously no player shows up 100% of the time and no player never shows up. Ronaldo just does it more often than Messi, that's all.Stop with this crap.
In 09/10 he didn't show his killer instinct when Lyon knocked out Real in the last 16.
In 10/11 he didn't show his killer instinct when Barcelona went to the Bernabeu, Messi scored two and Ronaldo did nothing.
In 11/12 he didn't show his killer instinct when Bayern knocked out Real on penalties. Ronaldo missed his penalty.
In 12/13 he didn't show his killer instinct when Borussia Dortmund destroyed Real to reach the final and Lewandowski scored 4.
In 13/14 he didn't show his killer instinct in the final v Atletico. Ramos saved them that day.
In 14/15 he didn't show his killer instinct when Juve went to the Bernabeu and put them out.
Interestingly, Ronaldo has been involved in 3 Champions League penalty shootouts. He's missed in 2 of them. But post Messi's pen v Chelsea some more.
I didn't say he didn't score. I said he didn't show this mythical killer instinct that puts him above every other player to ever play.11/12 he scored twice in the second leg
12/13 he scored in the first leg
13/14 he scored in the final albeit the last goal but we know full well he was about 30% fit and struggling with his knee.
14/15 he scored in both legs against Juve
?
Noone said that thoughI didn't say he didn't score. I said he didn't show this mythical killer instinct that puts him above every other player to ever play.
In the last match:Messi was Barca's best player vs Roma but they lost -> Messi bottled
Ronaldo was Real's worst player vs Juve but they won -> Ronaldo goat
that's how people actually argue here, yikes
I gave examples of 6 times they've went out in the 9 years he's been there. I didn't say he didn't score. He didn't elevate the team and display this killer instinct where he drags his team through.You gave examples of 6 CL games...
Obviously no player shows up 100% of the time
You must have Vancouver on ignore then.Noone said that though
9 out of 10 for tonight's performance? Who decides that? Cal?In the last match:
Messi got a rating of 4 in soccernet (one of lowest in team) and 6.7 in WhoScored (who often gives him highest rating in every match)
Ronaldo got rating of 9 in soccernet and 7.7 in WhoScored (both rate him as best player in Real)
You gave examples of 6 CL games... he scored 6 goals in those 6 games. Obviously no player shows up 100% of the time and no player never shows up. Ronaldo just does it more often than Messi, that's all.
Goals in the quarters, semis and final of the Champions League
Ronaldo- 40
Messi- 16
Ronaldo has more assists too, stats aren't everything but it is true that Messi goes missing more often in the latter stages of the competition.
Maybe they were rating his dives9 out of 10 for tonight's performance? Who decides that? Cal?
Not one Real Madrid player deserves more than a 5 tonight. They were awful.
http://global.espn.com/football/clu...phael-varane-cristiano-ronaldo-nine-out-of-109 out of 10 for tonight's performance? Who decides that? Cal?
Not one Real Madrid player deserves more than a 5 tonight. They were awful.
You can't argue with Messi fans at the moment.Noone said that though
Ronaldo, Carvajal and Higuain better than Matuidi? I honestly thought Matuidi was the best player on the pitch. Mandzukic obviously gets highest rating for his brace but Matuidi was brilliant.
Irony alert.You can't argue with Messi fans at the moment.
Give them sometime to get their shit together; at least until Messi gets a goal against Las Palmas or whoever they play next or does that long ball to Alba.
A bit rich he's bringing those teams when last time only Argentina and a bunch and very few and irrelevant countries voted for Messi.Although you have gone out of your way to find some irrelevant teams I am willing to bet that captains of those teams regardless of their level know more about football than both you and I combined.
Like I’ve said, it’s quite amusing seeing them unaccepting of realityYou can't argue with Messi fans at the moment.
Give them sometime to get their shit together; at least until Messi gets a goal against Las Palmas or whoever they play next or does that long ball to Alba.
You should do that, he's trying to wind you up and succeeding I don't agree with a lot of what he says by the way.You must have Vancouver on ignore then.
WhoScored is crap as it favours certain kinds of players. A lot of what Matuidi did won't show up on their stats.Ronaldo, Carvajal and Higuain better than Matuidi? I honestly thought Matuidi was the best player on the pitch. Mandzukic obviously gets highest rating for his brace but Matuidi was brilliant.
And I was praising Matuidi at half time before he'd even scored so it's not just a case of talking him up to belittle others.
It almost bordered on being or probably even is the white man's burden type argument!Although you have gone out of your way to find some irrelevant teams I am willing to bet that captains of those teams regardless of their level know more about football than both you and I combined.
Most of us were saying Ronaldo was done up until Christmas because of how godawful he was in the league?So to even the playing field a bit and those who say Messi hasn't shown up late in the CL, are you going to say Ronaldo hasn't shown up for La Liga this season? Not even a bit until Messi had already won it pretty much with only OG to help him get the job done. Thats one major competition most clubs bread and butter arguably the more important where Ronaldo has offered nothing this season in said competition (outside of meaningless games when they are out of the race).
Christ when will I learn to keep my mouth closed before they play? Lucky, lucky...I just realized I had 9 and not a zero...damn fingers
Doesn’t matter if Madrid win the CL. CL > League. How can Barca consider themselves best in the league/country if another team from their same league/country are crowned best in Europe?So to even the playing field a bit and those who say Messi hasn't shown up late in the CL, are you going to say Ronaldo hasn't shown up for La Liga this season? Not even a bit until Messi had already won it pretty much with only OG to help him get the job done. Thats one major competition most clubs bread and butter arguably the more important where Ronaldo has offered nothing this season in said competition (outside of meaningless games when they are out of the race).