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Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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I guess thats where we disagree I have that 0.1 swinging the other way.
Not really looked in here much.
What a shit fest
What a shit fest
Its all fun and games in the end. To each their own mate.
Yep haha
Goals win games and trophies
Not dribbles or cutting through balls!
We should be lucky we’re alive to have Ronaldo & Messi making and breaking records each week!
Ronaldo can go 89 minutes and do nothing all game then score a match winner, which leads to a trophy time and time again. Messi can take on players for fun all game and score in a 2-2 draw, who’s performance is remembered? Ronaldos of course. When looking back on these 2 players careers all what matters is trophies, Pretty obvious to me that Ronaldo at his current rate and with Madrid and Portugal and his trophies from United will end with more trophies than Messi when they both retire. If madrid win the UCL again this season and Portugal have a good WC Ronaldo could have another Ballon dor to his collection.
That being said they’re both fantastic players and a privilege to watch.
Not dribbles or cutting through balls!
We should be lucky we’re alive to have Ronaldo & Messi making and breaking records each week!
Ronaldo can go 89 minutes and do nothing all game then score a match winner, which leads to a trophy time and time again. Messi can take on players for fun all game and score in a 2-2 draw, who’s performance is remembered? Ronaldos of course. When looking back on these 2 players careers all what matters is trophies, Pretty obvious to me that Ronaldo at his current rate and with Madrid and Portugal and his trophies from United will end with more trophies than Messi when they both retire. If madrid win the UCL again this season and Portugal have a good WC Ronaldo could have another Ballon dor to his collection.
That being said they’re both fantastic players and a privilege to watch.
The debate is who is the better footballer, not the most prolific goalscorer. Messi’s ability is just incredible, what he can do with the ball and his football brain is out of the world.
This is what I’ve always said as well.
Cristiano is much more efficient with his energy.
Don't think so. Again, there were usually players during their time that scored far more than them and if it would be only about this impact then they would have been named in the same sentence. If you judge Ronaldo's impact higher than Messi's you would have to rate exemplarily Gerd Müller's impact on his team higher than that of Beckenbauer as long as you apply the same criteria. And no, I don't want to compare Ronaldo to Müller but this is the case where the difference is the most apparent. You could also name Eto'o and Ronaldinho or Laudrup and Stoichkov or Zidane and Raul/Henry.
See, my point is that obviously, the criteria are changed somehow. You are generally right that it is about the impact but in recent times, this impact tends to be reduced to goals while the overall contribution gets overlooked. And to come back to the initial point, dribbling is still one of the best ways to create chances, especially individually, and Messi is a master in it just like the majority of the greatest footballers to date.
What initially brought Cristiano into the Ballon D'Or discussions (and rightfully so) was his play style back then, not the amounts of goals he scored.
Ability/talent/skill ≠ best footballer.
Yes Messi is the most skilled player ever. Doesn’t mean he was the best player. That’s like saying a street player with immense skill is better than Ronaldo because he has more ability. There’s a lot more to it than just that.
Again, not quite true. Look at the people who remember and love Matt Le Tiss, no trophies, no galore, but what a player. People don't just "forget" Messi non-winning achievements or magic, I'm not sure why you think that.
But how does any of that point to Ronaldo being "better"?
More effective, perhaps, but then we also know that isn't the case.
No, I don't. I rate Ronaldo's impact higher because I think throughout their careers he's done better internationally and in the CL. You just look at the attributes that you think matter most, watch how consistently good they are at them without taking into account the importance of those matches and then choose.
No, it absolutely doesn't. Literally noone rates them on how many goals they scored for the season, it might be one of the factors but there's a lot more to it.
Dribbling is one of the best way to create chances, there are other ways too. Creating chances matters, how they create chances doesn't.
No, it was by being a great player, not by his style of play. There's been players in the top 10 of the Ballon D'Or with every style of play imaginable.
Seriously, the vote swing based on two games in the space of the last week is absolutely pathetic.
The Classico is just around the corner, this thread is going to explode with genuine lunacy if it doesn't end in a draw.
The Classico is just around the corner, this thread is going to explode with genuine lunacy if it doesn't end in a draw.
I mean, it just blows my mind how you and other Ronaldo stans admit this much but still think he's better than Messi. You admit Messi has more ability yet think Ronaldo is better? Because his goals win matches? What does Messi's goals do? I don't get it. It isn't like Ronaldo's trophy haul is any bigger than Messi's. So what puts Ronaldo over the edge?
It seems like you lot prefer Ronaldo because he's less involved than Messi but then pops up with a game winning goal. I don't get it, sorry.
And how are these goals created? Through dribbles and cutting through balls most often.
The thing is, if you take a look at the players that are remembered as the greats, it is not about goals but how they played. Maradona is widely considered as the best player ever and he wasn't that good of a goal scorer. His goal of the century is the most prolific world cup moment to date because of the way he scored it and his legacy is based on it for large parts.
And its not about the total amount of titles they won. Pele winning three world cups doesn't automatically position him above everyone else. People compare him with Maradona and then there are the one's who argue the latter was greater because of his incredible abilities although he was nowhere near him in terms of trophies.
I imagine future generations watching video footage of Cristiano and Messi in their prime in the same way we watch past greats nowadays and honestly, I cannot possibly think of a way a neutral spectator would rate Ronaldo higher. What Messi does is simply more impressive.
The league doesn’t matter compared to CL. What’s more important, homework or the exam?
You’re delusional if you say you prefer being the “best” in your country when another club from your country is the best in the world.
If you think talent on the ball makes a player better than another then you do not understand how the sport works.
False. Through crosses, through great movement and runs, through good positioning, etc.
How many of Madrid's goals come after dribbles or through balls?
You may never get it.
It’s like basketball, there’s MJ/Kobe and then there’s Lebron. Sure Lebron is more talented than them but he’s not better than them. Because end of the day, any follower of basketball with half a brain if they had to choose to win a game would pick MJ/Kobe over Lebron any day of the week.
At the end of the day, it’s the guy you can trust and rely on to show up when it matters most in crunch time. Ronaldo clearly has that edge over Messi and the lesser disappearing acts.
Exactly lol how ridiculous is that.
In that case, why don’t clubs just sign all the street ball players in the world? Surely they’re all better than Ronaldo
If you look at the last two or maybe even three ball actions, few. If you look at the whole "chain of plays", the majority. That is the reason Kroos, Modric, Isco and Marcelo are so important. They constantly create the momentum, transitions and the dominance you need to get around the box.
That's not creating chances though
Not a contest Messi is better.
Better at disappearing when it matters most - I wholeheartedly agree.
Alone? No. Otherwise Ronaldinho is absolutely the greatest footballer of all time and there's no discussion.
That level of talent on the ball combined with:
- 618 career goals and 247 assists in 753 games
- 91 goals in a calendar year
- 9x La Liga
- 4x Champions League
- 5x Ballon d'Or
- Barcelona all time top scorer
- Argentina all time top scorer
Granted, Ronaldo has 20 more CL goals in 25 more CL apps than him which negates the above.
Ah yes, the classic I'm going to make up your argument, make it sound stupid and then argue against it. You need a break.
Talent on the ball isn't everything because there are a hundred more things that matter inside of a football pitch.
Mate, it's 2018, only Kobe Bryant and Laker stans are still putting Kobe above LeBron ffs
Oh I applaud him for that, he dismantled United.
Doesn’t mean he hasn’t no-showed numerous times when his teams have needed him most.
Hence why I agreed with you and gave more reasons
But evidently you don't have a comeback this time.
I prefer Ronaldo but that is a bit over the top.
Messi, until very recently, was THE big game player.
You can't just rewrite history because Ronaldo has just overtaken him.
Lebron dreams of having the killer instinct MJ and Kobe had, he’s a choker.Mate, it's 2018, only Kobe Bryant and Laker stans are still putting Kobe above LeBron ffs
Likewise, Messi dreams of being the big game player Ronaldo is. And there’s no way around it.
Although you have gone out of your way to find some irrelevant teams I am willing to bet that captains of those teams regardless of their level know more about football than both you and I combined.
Why isn't it? These chances would not even come to exist if it wasn't for these plays. Dominating the midfield is what wins you titles respectively gives you the greatest chance of doing so. Every tactical development in the past ten years had the goal of creating midfield dominance. The two strikers up front, traditional wingers and arguably even the four man backfield defense died out because coaches wanted more players in the center. The greatest teams were those who controlled the midfield. Spain, Germany and Bayern won big international titles without having a super top class goal scorer because they were dominant sides. And they do this through superior passing and - yes - dribbling. You are talking about the impact on the game, how isn't this the biggest impact a player can have?
Since Spain won Euro 2008, literally every international title won was either by a dominant team or a lucky shot (Chelsea, Inter, Portugal). Spain had Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Alonso, Germany Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Khedira and Özil, Barcelona Busquqets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, Madrid Casemiro, Isco, Modric and Kroos and Bayern Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Martinez. And people always felt that. This is why playmakers are so prestigous positions.
Also, you are talking of positioning, runs, spatial awareness and stuff like that. I don't want to take away the importance of these attributes but this brings me back to my point of you applying different criteria to Ronaldo than to past greats. Because Gerd Müller is probably the player that was the most prolific in these areas after Cristiano. And you will struggle to find a great that can keep up with him in that regard. These are important abilities, without a doubt, but not those that make you the best player.
More like cries/takes impromptu retirements about it
I said talent on the ball isn't everything on the freaking pitch and then you mention goals and their trophies?Hence why I agreed with you and gave more reasons
But evidently you don't have a comeback this time.
What the hell does that have to do with anything? There is more to how good a player is at football than how good he is on the ball, that's my point since you blatantly had said you didn't understand it. The runs he makes, how good he is in the air, his athleticism, his pace, positioning, decision making, etc. I'm not saying Ronaldo's better or worse at those things before you miss my point another time. I'm saying those things matter.
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Goals in quarters, semis and final of the Champions League
Behave.
Ronaldo: 40
Messi: 16
Messi doesn't disappoint often and he is not a choker like a few people are claiming here but he's certainly disappointed on the big stage more often than Ronaldo. Not because of those numbers either, you'll say he might not have scored but he creates more but the problem is that has failed him too in the biggest stages.
So yes, how consistently good they are at different things doesn't matter at all if you don't put it into context.
Because accolades and achievements aren't the same thing as talent on the ball...
You say talent isn't everything. I agree and give other reasons as to why I feel the way I do.
What don't you get here?
Ronaldo is better in the air, he is more athletic and he's faster. I'd agree with that wholeheartedly. My whole thing is I just don't see how it can trump talent on the ball. I'm aware that there's more to the game than technique but ultimately when it comes down to it, how can anyone prefer brute strength and athleticism over elegance and technique. Which you obviously do given you think Ronaldo's better than Messi despite admitting that Messi has more ability.
This debate will rage on until the end of time ala Pele/Maradona no doubt. Lately however, BY MESSI's STANDARDS, he is not having as much of an impact as Ronaldo is. You have to admire Ronaldo's longevity. I thought he was done.
Cue Messi hatrick in the El Clasico.
Cue Messi hatrick in the El Clasico.
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