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Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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You're right, but it wasn't pettiness. It's because the whole discussion is cancerous.
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I just read it. I sarcastically asked you if his game last night proved me wrong about me talking about this whole one game, one goal thing. I don't know how to say this any clearer, but you are not talking about the same thing that I'm talking about. Ronaldo's game last night literally cannot prove me wrong about my view of other people in this thread (which is what I'm talking about), and this is especially ironic when that one performance started a wave of posts which proved my point.
The semi-negative didn't refer to what I said btw.. Maybe you should try to see things in a half-full kind of way instead of end of the world-empty when it comes to my remarks about Ronaldo, then we wouldn't have to go on for 4 pages about shit like this.Semi-negative remarkyou can pretend to be fair however you like but the bitterness and anger is beyond obvious which is why I think it's funny and replied to you in the first place. You can't give him praise for a great performance without downplaying what he's done a few times, it's incredible.
FWIW the only anger I feel is from people like you who can't be honest despite claiming to be so. I've praised Ronaldo several times in this thread and elsewhere on the caf (last time was the bicycle kick game against Juve I believe), so forgive me if I don't see where my bitterness about Ronaldo comes from. I've been far more critical of how posters seem to view players and evaluate their perfomances than I have been critical of Ronaldo. I've also been extremely critical of that Trumpster Vancouver guy and I've pointed to @Cal? and his flaws once or twice as well, which surprisingly enough has nothing to do with my view of Ronaldo.
So I praise Ronaldo, you get bent out of shape about it and try to twist my words yet you say I'm the one declaring war.. Please remind me to never say anything good about Ronaldo ever again then.
Alright, quote me where I'm deliberately ignoring or downplaying his performances for Portugal in an unfair and unbalanced way. I'll wait.
Wait, there are people who actually think Ronaldo is better than Messi? Is that a homer thing? Ronaldo played for United, so they have to delusionally soldier on that Ronaldo is the better player? I didn't even think this was a debate. Baffled.
There is little doubt that Messi at his best was better than Ronaldo at his best. But it's now getting to the point where Ronaldo has arguably had at least as many seasons where he's been better than Messi than Messi has had over him. In terms of their careers as a whole it is extremely close.
I do lean towards Messi, but it's close.
You are the one talking out of who knows what and the stats you put only difer from mine in duels, what does that site call duels?, of course I watched the game, then I re-watched it again later, I watched 2 diferent highlight videos from Ronaldo, and then fast-forwarded the whole match this afternoon to find what you were talking about when you praised his overall performance on duels and defensive set pieces, then came here with videos I edited myself from the game, took the stats to prove back that I wasn't talking out of my ass, and you still go by the "did you watch the game", "nonsensical stats" like you always do.
By the stats he had 15 duels, won 9. He cleared the ball twice defensively on two set pieces, did you watch the game? If you're just following some stat website then they got that wrong. I'd love to know which aerial duel he lost while defending a set piece... his incredible back to goal work didn't come 30 meters away from goal only, he won a free kick which he scored for example. Also not sure why it would matter how far it is. Winning 4 fouls against Spain vs winning 4 fouls vs Iceland... come on.
This is if you rate performances by those nonsensical stats you use, which I don't because it's stupid. He was incredible, you're the only person on Earth who believes he was better than this in 80% of the matches he played in big international tournaments. That's a completely ridiculous statement and at this point I'm not sure I've ever been disagreed so much with someone on the way they judge players on a football pitch so I don't really see the point in us discussing football.
Maybe you should start adressing the elephant in the room "Portugal don't play at anything", "they played poorly". Well, when their star and best player is happy and thriving in a direct style, because he can't do a job similar other star players like Isco, Hazard, Messi, Modric, Neymar, Coutinho, Eriksen, Kroos, Ozil or James do for their national sides... when you defend your star player and the best arguments are aerial duels and touches as a target man that implies something. At what point are we going to start talking that maybe Portugal play an awful football because it brings their best odds thanks to Ronaldo, instead of talking how Ronaldo has to bear with a team that plays dreadful football?.
Because I don't buy that a team with Adrien Silva, Moutinho, Guedes and Bernardo Silva has to resort to play long balls to Ronaldo and counters in 4 passes or less like they are Iceland. I've seen three of those players doing great in eye-pleasing teams, and I doubt Adrien Silva would feel like sticking Sulley Muntari in 82' Brazil.
I tend to rate international football a little higher compared to club achievements than some fans. And I also tend to give a little extra for outstanding influence across generations (Cruyff) which some may not. So with those caveats:
At the moment I even think it’s fair if someone rates Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Di Stefano as top 5 all time footballers. They all have unique sets of achievements. Puskas is an interesting case because I believe that if Hungary had won that 1954 Cup, he would have a mythos around him like Pele or Maradona. It’s certainly not popular atm to exclude the two current giants from a Top 5 All Time but I think a rational case can be made for all five of those whose shoulders the two current greats stand upon.
This is all just subjective though. I think a lot of different opinions can be equally fair. Different people rate based on different things and once we get into the finer details of the all time greats it’s always going to be a lot of personal preference as there is no right answer - although there are wrong answers. I don't think its some crazy offensive thing to not yet rate CR or even Messi in Top 5 of all time although its obviously fair if you do rate them both there. Too much recency bias (and bit of a bandwagon effect) for me though to really rate fairly.
This World Cup will certainly affect my personal opinion though.
Good to hear sense. Classic example of how repeated myth becomes true.
I kept repeating this to myself before I realised it's another game Ronnie does that. However, if you use your logic you'll never be open to any discussion and will always rabbit the same stuff 'is this even a question?' Yes it fecking is and I'd say if Ronaldo wins or go pretty damn close to winning this while Messi stumbles, you will HAVE TO revise it.
Yeah, I'll likely always rate Messi above Ronaldo but I'll maintain Messi's performances at the 2014 WC were at least partially overrated. Certainly didn't think he was overly worth of being named best player of the tournament.
I said they're nonsensical stats... because they're nonsensical stats. I ask if you watch the game because if you did then you simply blatantly lied about what happened. You said he didn't have clearances in defensive set pieces when he did, what the hell am I supposed to say other than that? Either you didn't watch the game or you lied.
At the point people who don't watch us play, don't know who Fernando Santos is and understand nothing about football start discussing football. Who the hell watches us play and thinks we play boring football because of Cristiano Ronaldo... Jesus Christ. We're not going to play expansive football while having one single above average defender in the team and a midfield that's terrible at defensive transitions against fecking Spain... no shit, that's called not being stupid. We played in transitions the way we did because Guedes came in, we're a much slower paced team without him.
Guedes and Bernardo looked poor yesterday but here's the difference between Portugal and Argentina, they're playing in a system that suits them and they will come through eventually like they have done previously. That's the beauty of having one of the most adaptable forwards in the history of the game that doesn't need everything to go through him and can create a lot of danger without the ball at his feet, the others get a lot more chances to succeed since they can be in more comfortable environments.
We were playing Spain, that's what most teams are forced to do. We don't play out from the back because our defense doesn't have enough quality on the ball when pressed, normally we look good in possession in the attacking third when those players actually get the ball. Does Ronaldo force Madrid to play woeful football too? You say things like you have absolutely no idea how our team plays which is why I question if you watch the games. This is the first time in 2 years we played a game this way and you're pretending it's the usual.
Adrien has barely played all season and been terrible whenever he's played by the way, he's our last choice midfielder and shouldn't have even been called up, he's now below Manuel Fernandes in the pecking orded... he's always been poor on the ball too. It's probably the worst example you could give.
First great ronaldo game in a World Cup, let’s hit the brakes a bit
Wrong, he assisted the goal against Switzerland.
Not a chance. He did pretty much nothing, certainly in the knockout stages. I can only think FIFA gave it to him because he lost the final and he was undoubted golden boy at that time.
I was sort of stunned when I heard he only had three before yesterday, assumed he'd racked up at least five or six across his three WC's prior to this one.
Probably because there also wasn't an absolute standout that year - a few players it could've gone to, but not a completely obvious choice as there has been in some other years.
Yup I was surprised as well but he’s had a hard time in the world cups of the past. Off to a great start this year
That's why I don't inequivocally say Ronaldo's better as I simply can't decide. We as football fans desperately want to class them, though, so we have to find some measure stick. On club level, Ronaldo has caught up with him I believe is the consensus so it's obvious that Int tournaments is another step. I just think ppl ( as I used to) sometimes say Messi cause he's more pleasant on the eye and likes to drop deep, spray some passes. The question is, who influences his team more and this WC can shed some light I'd say as both teams are similar in that they vastly depend on the two. (may be wrong but I think 8/10 ppl would say Argentina will fare better).
I don't like arrogance from the guy I quoted. Saying something like 'is there even a question' smacks either of fear it may become true eventually or simply refusing to take both sets of arguments on board and rethink it.
I don't understand what's so hard to understand, when I said he'd proven you wrong I was obviously not talking about what you said about other people in this thread, that had nothing to do with it.
No, you just have a problem with those two and me... while the other thousand nonsensical views in this thread that are pro-Messi are fine
Your praise of Ronaldo came with an obvious statement that he played very well yesterday followed by 20 lines of why it wasn't that impressive. Twisting words
That's not what I said... I said you downplayed what he did for Madrid by saying he only did what he did because his teammates were great. Which you did.
This is not about football anymore so I'll leave it at that and let you find another way to vent
Still think Messi is better, but CR7 can substain big pressure, unlike Leo.
Is being man of the match in a World Cup semifinal not being great?
Both players have crumbled under pressure FFS. Let’s just forget ronaldo missing a penalty for us in a champions league final shootout shall we? both can handle the weight of expectation better than most athletes on the planet.
Isn't it like bar 2014, where he only played well in the groups, Messi hasn't cut it in WC yet as well?
It was a decade ago tbf, he's gone a long way in big games since then. Good point, though, nobody's immune to pressure.
Have always said Ronaldo and in the last 2/2 and half seasons 2 or more of my mates who were steadfast messi fanboys have had to succumb to the facts.
Ronaldo has achieved more period. He's just edged it and he's done it in multiple counties/scenarios/circumatance
To understand how special players like xavi iniesta and the Barca model and philosophy and continuity was during Messi's golden period leads u to understand that on paper Ronaldos achieved more given the diverse timeline of his career. Messis had it easier in my eyes and Ronaldos more complete albeit the bigger prick!!!
Ronaldo has achieved more period. He's just edged it and he's done it in multiple counties/scenarios/circumatance
To understand how special players like xavi iniesta and the Barca model and philosophy and continuity was during Messi's golden period leads u to understand that on paper Ronaldos achieved more given the diverse timeline of his career. Messis had it easier in my eyes and Ronaldos more complete albeit the bigger prick!!!
4 more caf members registering second accounts and ronaldo has the lead in the poll!
I don't think it has anything to do with pressure, Messi's just bad at penalties. Scored only 3 of his last 7.
I'm not sure why he takes them, Aguero has a better penalty record than him so what's the explanation for that?
It is, something Ronaldo didn’t get get:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/4991632.stm
Shows what a joke it is, Messi had nearly 70% of the vote a few months ago on a United forum no less.
You could say the same for Ronaldo and free kicks for Madrid. He had a nice one the other night but he has teammates who are better but he takes them anyway.
It is something he was though. France won so one of them got man of the match
Captain decides I guess. Although today’s was a pretty good save, he’s definitely hit worse. It’s strange because when he was younger, he took penalties a bit like hazard, always hit it low and waited for the keeper to move. He needs to get back to that, the same way ronaldo needs to trust the inside of his foot from feee kicks.
Man of the match was Lilian Thuram, not Ronaldo
You can’t just go stating it like it was official when it wasn’t
Both have crumbled under pressure because they both are putting themselves in those situations more than most because of they're level/competence or whatever so it's nt surprising the best two players have a history of big losses... it goes hand in hand with winning the most they're putting themselves they're so it's relative or reflective of their talent.
On the big stage (what gets remembered more that stats) Ronaldo has more it's daft to argue not. So people dismissing Ronny are naive
I didn't...You can’t just go stating it like it was official when it wasn’t
To be fair I can understand the swing. Ronaldo’s overhead v Juve started it, yesterday’s hat trick just furthered the inevitable.
Yes, hence my irony. Ronaldo gets criticized for being selfish by taking free kicks but there's no problem with Messi taking penalties...
The extra irony of that being that Ronaldo's actually one of the best free kick takers in the world with a high conversion rate and might finish his career having scored more free kicks than anyone in the history of the freaking sport. Not bad for a crap free kick taker.
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