or Portugal being better than Argentina! I think this is what has been annoying me the most lately.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Indeed, the length they'd go to, claiming the likes of Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain & co sound like amateur footballers.
So the latest I’m reading is “Messi has 3 or 4 people marking him”. New excuse..
Completely valid, he plays much further away from goal
Yeah so then doesn't that free up the rest of Argentina and make them a better team? Can't have it two ways.
I think that you're making a valid point.
It goes this way:
1. "Ronaldo is one dimensional".
2. Then Ronaldo scores with his right foot, left foot, free kick, powerful header, etc. "He just taps the ball in".
3. Ronaldo scores a bicycle or from 25 yards. "He is just a goalscorer", "Penaldo"...
1. "He has only one Ballon d'Or".
2. Ronaldo wins one more. "He still has less than Messi. Talk to us when he ties Messi".
3. Ronaldo equals Messi's Ballon d'Or wins. "That's not the measure. You should look at contribution to the team, making teammates better, etc.".
4. Ronaldo wins the Euro and multiple UCLs. "He didn't score in the final". [reminder: Ronaldo scored a goal and assisted one against Wales in the SF].
1. "He is a show man. Cares only about his hair".
2. Messi goes tattooed. "Nothing wrong with that!".
I remember that after his two goals against Juve (in the first leg), someone I know said, in his analysis of that specific match, "Good goals by Ronaldo, but he is not Messi". I didn't understand why Messi's name was even mentioned.
It's always like that.
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Before I continue I will state that I think both are wonderful players however I have always preferred Ronaldo. What I do appreciate is that after many many years it appears we have now got to the point where if you do prefer Cristiano you don't have to justify it as if you are some sort of footballing idiot for thinking that way. @Moby hit the nail on the head.
Year after year I've had to read sanctimonious bullshit telling me that Messi is a God given talent and Ronaldo is somehow some hack that happens to work hard. Finally, finally, finally the Portuguese lad is getting the respect he deserves.
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I always recognize Messi is a better player technically, more pleasing to the eyes, and will always be among top 2 or 3 GOAT. He is probably the best of all time (his peak and footballing is near to Maradona god-like level, but he also does it consistently every year, although he bottles more in big games).
However, I prefer Ronaldo's determination, drive, will to win and mental strength over Messi's talent and skills. I really do honestly think Ronaldo is greater player than Messi (in terms of legacy, jaw-dropping moments and overall achievements)
However, I prefer Ronaldo's determination, drive, will to win and mental strength over Messi's talent and skills. I really do honestly think Ronaldo is greater player than Messi (in terms of legacy, jaw-dropping moments and overall achievements)
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357 each at the moment.
You actually have a point here, however Argentina played with virtually no width in that Iceland game and it cost them dearly. The middle was very crowded and Messi had no space at all. There are supposed to be 3-4 lineup changes for the Croatia match so I expect Messi and the rest of the team to have a better game.
Argentina needs to play with width and have players practically hugging the touchline so Messi has more room to operate. It's frustrating how many of his teammates just stand there and stare at him while he tries to break down the defense on his own.
Agreed, and it's also a disservice to Messi to reduce him to just talent because he was showing improvement left, right and center every 2-3 weeks for 6-7 years straight. I can only think of Ronaldo who's shown a longer period of improvement in recent memory. The way a lot of people view talent is dark ages, the main reason why players are talented in the first place is due to hard work.
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You guys seem to be forgetting this whole thing had a timeline, it's understandable if you think it was about time Ronaldo had the respect he deserved, but this started when Messi dominated United, Real Madrid and, by extension Ronaldo from 2009 to 2012 and you had to hear every day that he wasn't the best because Ronaldo was taller, stronger, faster and better at free kicks and heading.
Everyone goes mental if you mention Modric and Kroos when trying to put in perspective why Ronaldo is winning now and not 8 years ago, or disregards La Liga and the Pichichi, it wasn't like that 6 years ago when the situation was inverted.
When Ronaldo breaks past 40 goals but Barcelona end up winning the league, vs when Messi breaks past 50 goals but Real Madrid win the league.
2011
2012
2012
What was a bigger feat for the #1 sports paper in Spain, reaching 50 goals or playing 38 games?
It wasn't about justifying you weren't a football idiot if you chose Ronaldo over Messi for sport reasons, this started because this rivalry was born toxic almost since the beginning, and the amount of bs both sides have been sold for 10+ years led to stupid discussions, like Messi fanboys saying Ronaldo is a glorified poacher or an awful human being, or Ronaldo fanboys saying Iniesta and Xavi were Barcelona's real stars, that Messi was just a doping fraud before, or that he has been poor for most of Barcelona's big games in his career lately.
It’s 50-50 now the poll.
Is this the end for Messi? (Daily mail headline)
Is this the end for Messi? (Daily mail headline)
If that guy wub1234 continues to post here, Ronaldo will win the caf vote and quite easily at that.
Not really, wait until Ronaldo has two 6/
Man, it is Marca. It has nothing to do with Messi or Ronaldo, instead it has everything to do with Real Madrid. Need I remind you?You guys seem to be forgetting this whole thing had a timeline, it's understandable if you think it was about time Ronaldo had the respect he deserved, but this started when Messi dominated United, Real Madrid and, by extension Ronaldo from 2009 to 2012 and you had to hear every day that he wasn't the best because Ronaldo was taller, stronger, faster and better at free kicks and heading.
Everyone goes mental if you mention Modric and Kroos when trying to put in perspective why Ronaldo is winning now and not 8 years ago, or disregards La Liga and the Pichichi, it wasn't like that 6 years ago when the situation was inverted.
When Ronaldo breaks past 40 goals but Barcelona end up winning the league, vs when Messi breaks past 50 goals but Real Madrid win the league.
2011
2012
What was a bigger feat for the #1 sports paper in Spain, reaching 50 goals or playing 38 games?
It wasn't about justifying you weren't a football idiot if you chose Ronaldo over Messi for sport reasons, this started because this rivalry was born toxic almost since the beginning, and the amount of bs both sides have been sold for 10+ years led to stupid discussions, like Messi fanboys saying Ronaldo is a glorified poacher or an awful human being, or Ronaldo fanboys saying Iniesta and Xavi were Barcelona's real stars, that Messi was just a doping fraud before, or that he has been poor for most of Barcelona's big games in his career lately.
They are a sports tabloid who photoshoped an offside to look that referees helped Barca, and who photoshoped the picture of stadium in US, to look that Real had more fans than United in the stadium.
Don't take them too much seriously!
I can choose to not take them seriously, but when talking about what both players deserve in recognition I think they're both equally mistreated by the rival fanbase. I know they're an awful tabloid, but they're still the biggest here, it basically implied that in a 50/50 country with Barcelona and Madrid fans, half the people you met would defend Ronaldo and attack Messi using the arguments they read or were told in the TV, no one has the patience to ignore absurd arguments for years and not lash out with some nonsense of his own.
I'm just saying, there's a reason to understand why so many people downplayed Ronaldo's achievements, it was done the same way to Messi. So if we're going to point out who suffered more from "having to prove" their worth through their career, that's a battle both of them lost because no one was really rational about it.
Barcelona fans and media are A LOT more obsessed with downplaying Ronaldo than Madrid fans and media are with Messi and that is a fact.
It comes from Messi being treated like God almighty in Barcelona while Ronaldo rightfully isn't the same for Madrid fans.
A fact seconded by what?.
And even if that could be the current situation right now, as I said, that evolved from a time where Messi was winning UCL titles, outscoring Ronaldo and bringing absurd stats like the 91 goals year, and some people were still saying he wasn't the best, people can't really blame others for taking a turn into zealotry when they basically pushed them into it by being zealots themselves.
Let's be serious, Marca is an awful tabloid, but MD, Sport, RC at times read like sci fi fantasy, beyond imagination.
You can always find pieces that criticize Ronaldo or try to make some controversy on Marca, AS etc., literary tons of them, even when he's at his best, but Catalan media live in an alternate world.
You can always find pieces that criticize Ronaldo or try to make some controversy on Marca, AS etc., literary tons of them, even when he's at his best, but Catalan media live in an alternate world.
One thing in these discussions that irks me more than anything is the knee-jerk reactions. Quite literally one game, just one game and people are shouting GOAT. Whether Ronaldo scores a hattrick or Messi does something outrageous, one game swings everyone into delirium. Utterly bizarre. We all clearly favour one player over the other, at this stage unless there is a dramatic fall in the performances of one over the other nobody will truly be swayed. Even in that case it will go down to people judging them on their peaks etc.
That being said one thing I have never understood about Messi is his lack of urgency or work rate when the chips are down, not to say he does it a lot but far too many times where tactically or physically the game isn't working for him and he goes into a shell and walks around, annoys me to no end. It's not even a quality I would praise Ronaldo greatly for because surely in the spirit of competition and drive we all want to win and thus that comes naturally? Mehh in any case Lionel is the better football player but it's quite possible Ronaldo will retire with the better career if that makes sense. Time will only tell.
That being said one thing I have never understood about Messi is his lack of urgency or work rate when the chips are down, not to say he does it a lot but far too many times where tactically or physically the game isn't working for him and he goes into a shell and walks around, annoys me to no end. It's not even a quality I would praise Ronaldo greatly for because surely in the spirit of competition and drive we all want to win and thus that comes naturally? Mehh in any case Lionel is the better football player but it's quite possible Ronaldo will retire with the better career if that makes sense. Time will only tell.
Strange considering that a lot of people have been swayed in the last couple of seasons. I mean, Ronaldo won 3 UCL in the last 25 months or so, Euros, 2 Ballon D'Ors (and is favorite for an another one) which made a lot of people like me actually get swayed from Messi is quite better, to Ronaldo is probably better.
I mean, when it was 4-1 on Ballo D'Ors and Messi had all those fantastic years which we haven't seen a player doing it before, I guess that 80-90% of people would have said that he is the greater player, while now it seems that it is around half of people who seem to think that Ronaldo has at least as much legacy as Messi if not more, though it is hard to argue against that at their absolute peak, Messi was the better player.
Because it's the trophies that sways their mind, pay attention. Messi had a monster domestic campaign but gets forgotten (quite understandably) due to Reals 3 CL run. If Ronaldo performed to the exact same level but Madrid don't win a CL or a league title and thus he gets less Balon D'Ors believe you me the status quo would remain. Football fans are fickle hence my first post about one game changing everything all the time.
P.S. your point about the Balon D'Or is a good example of the fickle nature, its a vote based system heavily biased to European/WC competitions. Domestic form means less if another player with a comparable year gets the CL trophy. Case in point if somehow Messi gets the Balon D'Or would people be up in arms? Domestic double plus the European Golden Boot more than enough the clinch it but you can bet your bottom dollar people would be up in arms due to the importance of the CL/WC (not that it doesn't have merit of course which it does).
Wow, more important competitions count more than less important competitions, who would have thought that? Next, we are going to hear that the domestic cup counts less than domestic league. And that league of Greece counts less than that of Spain. Injustices everywhere.
Fickle indeed.
Your really taking this to heart aren't you? Simple question say both Argentina and Portugal do nothing of note in the WC (same goes for Ronaldo and Messi) Messi then wins the Balon D'Or, unfair, travesty or a decision that can be justified? What do you say?
I think that as of now, Ronaldo deserves it more cause UCL > La Liga. Obviously if Messi wins it, it wouldn't be a travesty, considering that Messi was brilliant in the domestic league with the highest quality and scored more goals than any player in Europe.
Cool we are on the same page, I understand CL carries more weight and as such it's no surprise with Real winning 3 in a row results in Ronaldo winning the individual awards. Just that for me that hasn't made him a better player than Messi, sure he can retire with the better overall career when all is said and done but IMO Leo is the superior footballer. As a note I have no issue if others feel the other way.
By your own standards you mentioned a couple days ago (Messi underperforming in Barcelona UCL eliminations) you wouldn't say Ronaldo, a guy that was a non-factor in the last 3 UCL games (both legs vs Bayern, final) has underperformed in 2018?.
You're giving the Ballon d'Or to a player that showed in 3 games for his club in 2018 because his team won the UCL?. (R16 vs PSG, Juve 1st leg, and let's leave 2nd leg hanging because he barely did anything beyond the last minute penalty), he missed 7 La Liga games, played 0 minutes in the cup and his team finished 3rd in the league, if you really think he deserves the trophy then you can throw Benzema there too, he was as important as Ronaldo for Real in this 2018 UCL run (6 goals in R16/Quarters, 2 from Penalties, vs 3 goals in Semis and Final, all from open play).
The 4-1 lead of Messi over Ronaldo was generated during the early years of Ronaldo at Real Madrid. He left a team with which he won 3 EPL title, 1 CL title (and one final), and moved to a team that was licking its wounds after being thrashed, at their home turf, 6-2. And so Ronaldo moved when Barca was already a complete team while Real is re-building. By the time that Real put together a team that could go toe to toe with Barca (2011-12), Messi has already added few Ballon d'Ors. Since then, it was mostly Ronaldo.
One could also add that Sneijder deserved it the most after his great season with Inter (2009-10): league, CL and a world cup final. But, somehow, he ended 4th in the race.
One could also add that Sneijder deserved it the most after his great season with Inter (2009-10): league, CL and a world cup final. But, somehow, he ended 4th in the race.
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They said "come forth" and so he did.
I'm giving the Ballon d'Or to "Arise Sir" Harold Kane.
This nonsense above.
This nonsense above.
In the 91 goal year Messi scored a goal every 66 minutes. Ronaldo in 2018 has scored a goal every 66 minutes.
For me the deciding factor is who came through the United system. I watched Ronaldo grow into the player he is today. I still remember his first interviews with Gary Neville laughing at him and his horrid sweaters. He's come a long way. I prefer his style and he is amazing to watch.
Ronaldo 1861 minutes with RM in 2018
Messi 5068 minutes with Barcelona in 2012
We all know it's the same deal mantaining a Goal/66 minutes ratio playing 5k minutes or 1800, skipping cup games or missing 7 games (5 of them away) out of 22 in La Liga surely doesn't help you stay sharper to put 4 in Girona or or 9 between Alaves, Sociedad, Getafe and Eibar.
You're comparing Ronaldo while playing 37% of the minutes Messi played that year, let's see some examples in that same margin.
Tonny Sanabria (Goal/106minutes, 847 minutes) beats Luis Suarez (Goal/116minutes, 2902 minutes), if you said that Suarez had been "the best striker in 2018" in the La Liga thread, you must think Sanabria is unreal
Cedric Bakambu (Goal/140 minutes, 1236 minutes) was better than Griezmann (Goal/143, 2440 minutes) and he went for 1/3 or Griez' release clause, what a steal.
Loren Moron (Goal/152 minutes, 1034 minutes) beats Zaza (Goal/160, 2079 minutes), Bacca (Goal/167, 2500 minutes) or Rodrigo (Goal/168, 2696 minutes), why didn't we bring this guy to the World Cup?
Aubameyang (Goal/106, 1058 minutes with Arsenal) is almost as good as Salah (goal/96, 1917 minutes) in 2018
Previously on "Messi vs Ronaldo".
But you have no problems leaving a hint that Ronaldo's 2018 might be on par with Messi's 2012, comparing 33 goals in 26 games on selected games, vs 91 goals in 69 games playing everything. Guess that sums up your arguments.
And before you hint at Leo scoring vs lesser teams too, allow me to remind you that he put 4 on Real, 3 on Atletico, 4 on Valencia (3rd in 2012) and 8 on Leverkusen and Milan in the UCL ko stage that year, he didn't get the record just bullying small teams.
I think Ronaldo has achieved more, but I think Messi is the most talented.
Ronaldo has won silverwear with Manchester United, Real Madrid and Portugal.
Ronaldo has won the Ballon'dor with both Manchester United and Real Madrid.
Ronaldo has adjusted to two completely different leagues and been the best in the world in both of them.
But when I watch Messi play, I see he's easily the most talented footballer I've ever seen.
A privilege to have watched the two of them on many occasions.
Ronaldo has won silverwear with Manchester United, Real Madrid and Portugal.
Ronaldo has won the Ballon'dor with both Manchester United and Real Madrid.
Ronaldo has adjusted to two completely different leagues and been the best in the world in both of them.
But when I watch Messi play, I see he's easily the most talented footballer I've ever seen.
A privilege to have watched the two of them on many occasions.
Personally I think its unfair to use the Ronaldo has achieved at two clubs while Messi is punished for loyalty argument. Just imagine if I posted the following anywhere bar Bluemoon...
Yaya Toure > Paul Scholes, because Yaya has won in 2 leagues and led his team to winning his international continental trophy. Yaya has won with Ivory Coast and Scholes only successes were with United.
If Ronaldo has achieved more than Messi its because he has simply achieved more not where he did it. We shouldn't be punishing one club men, we should be admiring them.
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Unrelated to what I quoted...
I was always firmly in camp Messi but my God is it getting closer and closer, I think we may end up saying Messi's peak was higher but Ronaldo might win on longevity, consistency and CL's. I think Leo needs either a WC (this one) a Copa America and a super dominant CL between now and the end to go down as the greatest.
He hasn't produced in the business end of the CL in a couple of years
Despite being player of the tournie in 2014, hasn't scored in the WC knockouts, that Gotze goal will forever be held over his head.
For me Leo needs a big tournie here and an international trophy or I might strangely end up in camp Ronaldo, despite my eye's telling me Messi is the better footballer.
Ronaldo scores in the bigger games more than Messi does.Ronaldo 1861 minutes with RM in 2018
Messi 5068 minutes with Barcelona in 2012
We all know it's the same deal mantaining a Goal/66 minutes ratio playing 5k minutes or 1800, skipping cup games or missing 7 games (5 of them away) out of 22 in La Liga surely doesn't help you stay sharper to put 4 in Girona or or 9 between Alaves, Sociedad, Getafe and Eibar.
You're comparing Ronaldo while playing 37% of the minutes Messi played that year, let's see some examples in that same margin.
Tonny Sanabria (Goal/106minutes, 847 minutes) beats Luis Suarez (Goal/116minutes, 2902 minutes), if you said that Suarez had been "the best striker in 2018" in the La Liga thread, you must think Sanabria is unreal
Cedric Bakambu (Goal/140 minutes, 1236 minutes) was better than Griezmann (Goal/143, 2440 minutes) and he went for 1/3 or Griez' release clause, what a steal.
Loren Moron (Goal/152 minutes, 1034 minutes) beats Zaza (Goal/160, 2079 minutes), Bacca (Goal/167, 2500 minutes) or Rodrigo (Goal/168, 2696 minutes), why didn't we bring this guy to the World Cup?
Aubameyang (Goal/106, 1058 minutes with Arsenal) is almost as good as Salah (goal/96, 1917 minutes) in 2018
Previously on "Messi vs Ronaldo".
But you have no problems leaving a hint that Ronaldo's 2018 might be on par with Messi's 2012, comparing 33 goals in 26 games on selected games, vs 91 goals in 69 games playing everything. Guess that sums up your arguments.
And before you hint at Leo scoring vs lesser teams too, allow me to remind you that he put 4 on Real, 3 on Atletico, 4 on Valencia (3rd in 2012) and 8 on Leverkusen and Milan in the UCL ko stage that year, he didn't get the record just bullying small teams.
Ronaldo has proved himself in two of the biggest clubs in the world, in different countries.
I used to 100% think Messi > Ronaldo, but these last 5 years, Ronaldo has proven everyone in the world wrong.
Good responses, I guess it is unfair to punish loyalty, I didn't think about it like that. I just think when we're at tenterhooks trying to find a difference between 2 absolute gems of players who are pretty much identically as good, as successful and unstoppable as they both are, one does just have to think about every possible difference they can find, and Ronaldo can do it in multiple countries, Messi might. But you're right, it shouldn't be a disadvantage that Messi played for just one club.
But,
He doesn't have the ability to do for Argentina what Ronaldo can do for Portugal. Ronaldo has literally dragged a decent International side in Portugal to a Euro 2016 triumph. I've not seen Messi do that for Argentina, or even come close to it. I'd love Messi to win something for Argentina to level it back out again, because I believe they should be thought of as equals in football.
Same, even though I still see Messi as the better all around player and more entertaining to watch on his day. Ronaldo career is starting to become just better overall. The guy has won everything he can win clubs wise, and in 2 clubs not just one, including 5 CLs in which he has a big role in everyone of them (Messi numerically won 4 but he had no role in 2006 one). Won the Euro with a team far weaker than Argentina, won same Balloon D'Or as Messi and will break it this year. That surely not including all these records he keeps breaking with each goal he scores.
Even if we agree that Messi is more fun to watch and more complete player, in the battle of careers Ronaldo is winning.
Won a euro without playing in the final, he was also awful in the 2014 and 2016 CL final.
I do agree that career wise he is shaping up to be ahead of Messi.
He still needs to a win a treble as he’s fared quite poorly in domestic league titles but I’d take the CL any day.
It’ll be interesting to see how he fares moving forward without zidane
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