In order to win the final you need to reach it first.
Ronaldo has played a major role in Portugal passing the group in Euro and defeating Wales in semi final. He also played a key role in reaching all Madrid CL finals.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
Ronaldo has played a major role in Portugal passing the group in Euro and defeating Wales in semi final. He also played a key role in reaching all Madrid CL finals.
Wow this is close as it gets. 357
votes for each player. I wonder how much Ronaldo recent sucess at club and international level influenced the votes because I am pretty sure 2-3 years ago it would have been more one-sided on Messi’s side. He has had a truly remarquable run in the last few years.
votes for each player. I wonder how much Ronaldo recent sucess at club and international level influenced the votes because I am pretty sure 2-3 years ago it would have been more one-sided on Messi’s side. He has had a truly remarquable run in the last few years.
Well said. And played a major role in Quaresma’s goal against Croatia.
Last edited:
For sure, but people need to understand that he’s got a much better team behind them than Messi does. And Messi has a much better team than Ronaldo did during the Pep days.
It is an absolute luxury to be a passenger in a semi finals and finals and have your teammates be good enough to bring home the trophy. Ronaldo was great in CL’s but if he has an off game there are other players who can make up for it. If Messi merely has an average game against good competition Barca are finished
Why is that? Most teams in the world will kill for just one of Suarez and dembele (and coutinho) And yet barca struggle to create with both these players?
When we talking about any past great, it doesn’t really matter which single match they played poorly or didn’t scored. But when it comes to Ronaldo, people will keep pointing out the only match he didn’t play or scored instead of praising his overall contribution in the campaign. It’s like saying Keane has nothing to do with our 1999 CL success cause he didn’t play in final.
Fact is, a footballer who dominate/score/play in every single match just doesn’t exist. Not even Pele, Maradona or Messi come close of being one. I’d even argue Ronaldo is already as close as one could get.
The hate Messi gets in this thread is nuts. People saying ronaldo single handedly wins games(or a draw in Spain game). Messi single handedly won a relatively poor barca(by there standards) a league title. Single handedly carried Argentina to the World Cup.
Suarez might have something to say about that league title claim. Messi is their best player but he's not the superhuman he once was.... and I wouldn't shout about him dragging Argentina to the WC. They did it by the skin of their teeth in the last game.
Have you even watched Barca last season. Suarez is far from the player he was. So yes Messi did single handedly win them the league. I think every Barca fan on here would say the same. It was basically Barca’s strong defence and Messi.
Messi only played a few qualifying games due to retirement and suspension. He scored a hatrick in the final game to send Argentina to the World Cup. I seem to remember The ballon d’or viting was extending when ronaldo did something similar with Portugal.
The PR machine that’s had been built around ronaldo is extraordinary though. Especially here in the uk. Ronaldo and Messi could have equal games. Yet it’s always ronaldo who steals the show on sky sports news and the like. Probably due in part to his time here
Because Messi dragged them to that position - he was the only one to score a competitive goal for them since November '16 before Aguero scored on Saturday, just let that sink in for a moment. Their attacking wealth might catch the eye but they're not better than Portugal are. Anyway, (for me) the margins are too small to simply compare a trophy count - Ronaldo has a poor CL final but they still win, Messi has a good Copa America final (did he?) but they still lose, it's in the details sometimes. People will argue that's winner's mentality but it's not.
Maybe the 2017 CL spoiled you but Ronaldo doesn't need to have 10/10 games every week. The difference is Ronaldo can afford to be just ok because he doesn't have a team completely built around him for no reason... Madrid have plenty of great players, they're going to win them games too. Just like other players would do regularly for Barcelona and Argentina if they were played in systems that got the best of out of them rather than having to defer to Messi.
Benzema and Bale aren't even that great anymore but they can win games too and they can have great performances too if the team is set up to get the best out of them rather than being set up to pass the ball to Ronaldo as often as possible. When Benzema was having a shit time and getting booed at the Bernabeu who was the one that lifted his confidence back up? Meanwhile Messi was complaining about the board and making seductive comments to Griezmann...
for Messi it's either the best team in the history of the sport or his teammates aren't good enough.Any other player instead of Ronaldo and Madrid don't even play in the Champions League semifinals. Ronaldo was the best player in the Champions League this season and so far he's been the best player in the World Cup. You can do the mental gymnastics you want and at this point it's for the better since these days it's the only way to cope but it's really not hard to see why he is currently the favourite to win the Ballon D'Or.
How did I do this? Nice to see you in full meltdown mode already, the past week did you well. Obviously the more goals and the more minutes, the more impressive it is... no shit.Ronaldo 1861 minutes with RM in 2018
Messi 5068 minutes with Barcelona in 2012
We all know it's the same deal mantaining a Goal/66 minutes ratio playing 5k minutes or 1800, skipping cup games or missing 7 games (5 of them away) out of 22 in La Liga surely doesn't help you stay sharper to put 4 in Girona or or 9 between Alaves, Sociedad, Getafe and Eibar.
You're comparing Ronaldo while playing 37% of the minutes Messi played that year, let's see some examples in that same margin.
Tonny Sanabria (Goal/106minutes, 847 minutes) beats Luis Suarez (Goal/116minutes, 2902 minutes), if you said that Suarez had been "the best striker in 2018" in the La Liga thread, you must think Sanabria is unreal
Cedric Bakambu (Goal/140 minutes, 1236 minutes) was better than Griezmann (Goal/143, 2440 minutes) and he went for 1/3 or Griez' release clause, what a steal.
Loren Moron (Goal/152 minutes, 1034 minutes) beats Zaza (Goal/160, 2079 minutes), Bacca (Goal/167, 2500 minutes) or Rodrigo (Goal/168, 2696 minutes), why didn't we bring this guy to the World Cup?
Aubameyang (Goal/106, 1058 minutes with Arsenal) is almost as good as Salah (goal/96, 1917 minutes) in 2018
Previously on "Messi vs Ronaldo".
But you have no problems leaving a hint that Ronaldo's 2018 might be on par with Messi's 2012, comparing 33 goals in 26 games on selected games, vs 91 goals in 69 games playing everything. Guess that sums up your arguments.
And before you hint at Leo scoring vs lesser teams too, allow me to remind you that he put 4 on Real, 3 on Atletico, 4 on Valencia (3rd in 2012) and 8 on Leverkusen and Milan in the UCL ko stage that year, he didn't get the record just bullying small teams.
Messi playing that many minutes in 2012 was actually very stupid by the way, he beat the goal record... then the 2 biggest games of the year came and Barca lose the league and the Champions League with him being pretty average and scoring no goals. Great to remember that given what happened this year with him playing 90 minutes and scoring an hattrick against Leganes at home 3 days before getting knocked out of the Champions League in probably the most humiliating moment of the decade for Barcelona.
Minutes per goal is pretty stupid anyway, in the past 180 minutes for their countries, Messi scored 3 goals. Same as Ronaldo. Messi scored a hattrick in a friendly against Haiti, Ronaldo scored an hattrick against Spain in the World Cup. Then come the end of the year people will argue Messi is just as good at scoring goals.
After a few days ago you said Ronaldo's performance vs Spain wasn't even in the best 80% of his performances in international tournaments, I honestly think there's really no point in us discussing football anyway. You clearly see football as an entirely different sport than me.
There is this constant comparison as if it's anywhere near the same. Ronaldo has a great team behind him, Messi had the best team in the history of the fecking sport that won 2 Euros and 1 World Cup without him while he was in his freaking prime. 2016/17 aside Madrid have never even clearly been the best team in the world for fecks sake.
Suarez is better than Benzema, Busquets is better than Casemiro, Ter Stegen is better than Navas, Dembele is as good as Bale, Pique as good as Ramos, Umtiti as good as Varane... Rakitic had a better year than Kroos, Alba was better than Marcelo for most of the year, Umtiti looked the best CB in the world for half a season, Coutinho's about as good as Isco, etc.. if Messi is better than Ronaldo then what's the problem?
The best thing about putting the blame on his teammates is that it's happening with Argentina... while Ronaldo plays for Portugal
Dembele is nowhere near Bale's level, the hyperbole used by both camps in this debate is what makes it so tedious.
They played 6 official games in that time and he scored 4 official goals in that period, 3 against Ecuador's u-23 team and a penalty against Chile... they scored an own goal too. It's one of those stats that sound impressive until you actually look at what happened.
They don't score many goals because their attack is stupidly set up since they try to defer everything to Messi when they don't need to. Dybala doesn't play, Icardi is sitting at home, now Di Maria is going to end up getting benched. Biglia and Mascherano play instead of a Banega that I'm sure United fans will remember very well from this year's CL.
The fact loads of people are arguing Portugal is better than Argentina pretty much says it all.
Nowhere near? He's been better for the whole year despite Bale deciding to actually show up for the last month.
come on now, that's ridiculous. Dembele played about 15 games and spent the season recovering from that nasty injury, scoring 4 goals in all competitions in the end. Bale had 16 goals in la liga only, 21 in all competitions. he certainly didn't score them in last two weeks.
The Treble? Why the obsession with the Copa del Rey? Because Barca take it a lot more seriously than Madrid?
With that run of CL games in 2017 and Ronaldo's landslide win in the voting, Messi could have scored 20 against Peru and it wouldn't have mattered.
By the same token, did you watch Madrid this past season? Modric, Kroos and co were also far from the players they were.
It's true Dembele had more injury problems but I don't think anyone who's watched them consistently play throughout the season has any doubt at who the better player is. Anyway the point stands even if you think Bale is better, it's always the same constant criticism for anyone who dares to play on the same team as Messi.
Jordi Alba had arguably the best season of his career and look at the recognition he got for it compared to what Madrid players get... It's no wonder Neymar left really, more chances of getting proper recognition in France than he was by playing next to Messi.
I think he can certainly become better than Bale at some point of his career, but that's as far as I'll go because there was really no contest this year. he missed 4 months of football after all and didn't really have games comparable to those in which Bale was at his best. I wasn't really trying to "invade" your debate with other poster, just found it strange that you of all people would rate a injured nonscoring forward above guy who just won the CL final for Madrid and scored almost 20 goals more.
We're tied at exactly 50%/50% at the moment - I guess that game vs Spain really did wonders, eh?
It's kinda crazy. Ronaldo could very well score 3 again today, and be almost uncatchable for the Golden Boot after just two games.
It's kinda crazy. Ronaldo could very well score 3 again today, and be almost uncatchable for the Golden Boot after just two games.
Lukaku will score 4 against Tunisia, Kane will score 5 against Panama
Wow, 50% each. What was it when the thread started? I'd imagine Messi was ahead.
6-7 goals will win the golden boot in 10 or the last 11 World Cups. Ronaldo could well add another 2 tonight. Hopefully.
As it stands, Ronaldo should be on for a record 6th Ballon D'or.
6-7 goals will win the golden boot in 10 or the last 11 World Cups. Ronaldo could well add another 2 tonight. Hopefully.
As it stands, Ronaldo should be on for a record 6th Ballon D'or.
To add to the above argument, Argentina has had a pretty good defense, look at their last few WC results. Except for 4.0 at the hands of Germany their defense have done well.
Compare that to how bad Portugal's have been it's a no brainier.
If Messi cannot take responsibility for the attack in that team, like Ronaldo has been doing for Portugal, maybe he doesn't care enough.
Compare that to how bad Portugal's have been it's a no brainier.
If Messi cannot take responsibility for the attack in that team, like Ronaldo has been doing for Portugal, maybe he doesn't care enough.
How is Dembele better than Bale? He hardly played all season...and Bale was instrumental in the CL final.
That is a terrible argument. Both care.
Argentina should fare better next game because Croatia will attack and not sit back and defend like Iceland did. That will open up more space for the likes of Aguero and Di Maria.
Yes let's look at their defense 4 years ago
They got teared apart by Spain a few months back and lost 6-1. Their defense consists of a winger at RB, Otamendi who has far too many brainfarts, Rojo who is average, and a left back who just had his first year in Europe and only played half of the games in the fecking Dutch league. They're poor.Of course they are or at least they should be. They have the talent, they just can't get it together. It's on Messi to either stitch it all together, or go out and win games on his own. It's a big ask but it's exactly what Ronaldo has been doing this last couple of years.
It doesn't change my view of them much. There's not much to split them. Messi is the more gifted of the two but Ronaldo is the more effective player, able to adjust his game to different conditions. Messi has always dropped a level or two without his supporting cast.
Suarez? This was his worst season since he joined Barca ffs
Portugal’s defense was just as good.
Pepe was immense in the last euro’s. Again, they were able to win a final without Ronaldo and their defense was a big part of it
Ronaldo certainly wins the Greatest Goalscorer of all time in my books. With some ease.
As I've said in the past, the age old debate on Messi vs Ronaldo will rumble on until they both retire. As a player, Messi trumps Ronnie in my eyes.
With that being said, if Ronnie guides this Portugese side to world cup glory - then it'll be pretty much irrational to think Messi will go down the better player.
As I've said in the past, the age old debate on Messi vs Ronaldo will rumble on until they both retire. As a player, Messi trumps Ronnie in my eyes.
With that being said, if Ronnie guides this Portugese side to world cup glory - then it'll be pretty much irrational to think Messi will go down the better player.
Still almost as productive as Messi. Some people like to make out they'd be mid table if it wasn't for him.Suarez? This was his worst season since he joined Barca ffs
Can’t really get around what Ronaldo is doing currently. Difference at the moment seems to be that Ronaldo just gets better under pressure and Messi just can’t cope with it currently.
Difference is clear in the penalties. Ronaldo’s against Juve you just know it’s going in the top corner, whereas Messi’s I knew it wouldnt go in.
Difference is clear in the penalties. Ronaldo’s against Juve you just know it’s going in the top corner, whereas Messi’s I knew it wouldnt go in.
feck it, Messi my fantasy captain for tomorrow.
Rolando > Messi. Is that how this works?
Go on Ronnie! Make your case. What a player! Thrives under pressure too (unlike certain people).
Go on Ronnie! Make your case. What a player! Thrives under pressure too (unlike certain people).
You need more than goals to be better than Messi, he's also playing a totally different position to Ronaldo and Ronaldo will begetting much more chances
Messi is not going to score lots of goals this world cup his position is too deep and he doesn't have the same movement around him he has at Barca
If Messi scores more than 3 goals it will be a good run for him
Messi is not going to score lots of goals this world cup his position is too deep and he doesn't have the same movement around him he has at Barca
If Messi scores more than 3 goals it will be a good run for him
50/50...Let me change my vote and close the poll.
He just can’t. Ronaldo’s physicality allows him to be an out and out striker. If Messi could, Argentina would. Messi’s size helps him in other aspects of the game of course.
They absolutely would, they are completely dire without him. He was twice as good as Suarez this last season. Suarez was incredibly inconsistent and look terrible at the beginning and end of the season
- Status