Moonred
Full Member
Optimistic about individuals stepping up more than last season. Pogba, Sanchez, Martial. Which in turn will improve our season. Ambivalent about the rest.
You're advocating that a manager should operate under no restriction whatsoever. That is not going to happen, nor should it. He does not spend his own money therefore it is entirely reasonable that those in control of financial matters have a say in how he spends money. Especially if the manager is well-known for his short-termism and his tendency to feck off after a couple of seasons, one way or the other.I think I pretty much said previously I think the board backed Mourinho well so far so that's not the point of discussion.
The point of discussion is the logic of the board not signing the players the manager wants because of age profile or something like that, which is a straight recipe to a disaster.
So you hire a manager, then don't believe in his approach and don't agree on the profile of the players he wanted, so you don't sign them, than the manager moans about lack of transfers, the manager implodes with the team in a meltdown this season and gets sacked while blaming the board.
A straightforward way to destroy a season and just speaks poorly about the board not the manager in this case. If you don't agree on his approach or the profile of players he wants, why the hell hire him and pay him a giga salary of money ? It means the club is poorly managed and organized.
If you don't want the manager to be in control of the team, hire him as a football coach only and have a DOF that is responsible for determining the transfers needed, like Madrid.
But getting the manager then letting him ask for players then refuse them because you don't like their profile and don't sign anyone, how can't you see the consequences of this ?
You surely know the approach this manager has used throughout his career and the players he prefers so what's the surprise now? Don't act like you didn't know when you hired him.
In case of Mourinho we all know he's defensive oriented manager who depends on physicality and counters in his playstyle. The board knew that very well when they hired him. It's really not a surprise the way he sets the team to play in certain occasions or the players he prefers. It's known for everyone who watched some football. Same for Pep in City or any other big manager.
An no, City has provided Pep with everything he wanted, and he had a role in every transfer. City had no problem signing Bravo to be shifted to bench later, signing Nolito to sell him next summer or signing a 50m B.Silva to set on the bench. When they withdrew from Sanchez deal, Pep had a say in it. The only English club in which the manager isn't in good control is Chelsea.
If the board hires certain manager then that's because they think his approach and profile suits the club and when this manager asks for certain profile of players to be signed, the board is supposed to fully back him with this profile as they already believed in it when they hired him
Again, I think Ed did a very good job for Mourinho so far so I'm not talking about this specific case. I'm talking in general about your logic.
No I didn't say that.You're advocating that a manager should operate under no restriction whatsoever. That is not going to happen, nor should it. He does not spend his own money therefore it is entirely reasonable that those in control of financial matters have a say in how he spends money. Especially if the manager is well-known for his short-termism and his tendency to feck off after a couple of seasons, one way or the other.
Keep fighting the good fight brother.You're advocating that a manager should operate under no restriction whatsoever. That is not going to happen, nor should it. He does not spend his own money therefore it is entirely reasonable that those in control of financial matters have a say in how he spends money. Especially if the manager is well-known for his short-termism and his tendency to feck off after a couple of seasons, one way or the other.
You've just run Guardiola's name through the mud by putting him in the same bracket as no marks like Klopp and Poch. Then you've talked about how Mourinho is 'restricting' Pogba despite Pogba being a defensive no.8 for France and being heralded for his maturity on the pitch.The fact he hasn't imploded yet surprises me...............
This post is bang on.
He will implode, just when. And how quickly we can sort out his mess.
When you look at how many players Jose is not managing correctly it is alarming.
Imagine Klopp/Poch/Pep (&many more) with the young creative squad we have - they'd have us playing much better stuff.
The likes of Shaw - Martial - Rashford - Pogba - Lindelof - Bailly - Periera & a few others should be playing with confidence and the managers backing, instead all have been restricted to Jose's rigid style and almost hampered in development. Jose's track record is up there, we all know this. the Jose with a bit of passion and fire and attitude was the winner, The Jose we have today is glum, defensive, argumentative and looking dated. Look at what Klopp has done, addressed his issues with big additions. Jose begged Fellaini to stay.
We have the players, we just do not utilize them or coach them properly.
I hope the club have a plan for when Jose blows his top and forces the club to sack him for a pay day, been waiting for it from the day he arrived.
Am I too negative? I don't think so, this is realistic logic. The form Pogba showed for France, I don't think he will at utd in Jose's system. Jose will restrict him too much then whinge to the media as per usual
That's a good campaign but it's not really an excited one if you knew ahead that you're not winning. A good challenge for the title will do me fine. You can never expect your team to win but you can expect a realistic challenge but at the moment I'm not very hopeful of a challenge. Squad hasn't been improved much, the pre-season is off to a mess with one player left behind and others still on vacation (albeit other teams are in the same position in that regard).I’d bite your hand off for those results right now. Marginally less enthusiastic if we played absolute shit on a stick to achieve them but you’ve described a decent campaign.
Watching the world cup was definitely a refreshing experience. I'd almost forgotten how enjoyable attacking football is and playing without the handbrake on. I was glued to the TV for the majority of the games. The football we played at times last season made you fall asleep. OK not at the beginning but towards the end I became very apathetic and didn't really care. Nothing has changed in the transfer window thus far to make me optimistic.During most seasons I rarely watch other teams play, unless it’s a big premier league or champions league game. In other words, games guaranteed to be good. Having watched the vast majority of the World Cup, enjoying way more than I thought I would, all I can say is we have really had to put up with some tumescent football since Fergie left. There have been glimmers of hope since then, with trophies masking a lot of the poor stuff we do, but we really are hard to enjoy from a purely footballing perspective. It’s because of this I’m not particularly optimistic, made even more so when considering some of the excellent players we have but knowing they’ll never play their best stuff under Jose. It’s all just a bit meh really for me, first time I’ve felt that way in 20 years following United.
We’ve been linked with Lewandowski a few timesCould we have a poll?
That’s a good post. I’d probably take the “not optimistic” option in any survey but that’s about as well argued a case for the opposite opinion that I’ve read.I'm not as worried by the perceived lack of transfer activity from the press because the press are full of shit and a lot of our transfer deals happen almost over night. I'm confident we are working on a couple of deals and at least one will come through and it'll be one that strengthens us.
We were a million points behind last season but we were comfortably second (that's also with us chucking points away since we'd all but secured second) and it's not outlandish to suggest the following WILL happen : -
Pogba improves massively and starts to look like one of the most consistently brilliant midfielders in the game.
Lukaku will go from strength to strength now he's been at a big club for a season and took on the responsibility of being the real leader of the team that finished 3rd in the World Cup. He can and probably will score 35 or more goals provided we don't lose him to injury and he's a fit lad.
We see something resembling Sanchez' best form. He's 29, should be in his peak and for the first time in 5 years has had a pre-season rest and is now settled in the team rather than thrown in a fairly disjointed team in January.
That's three absolutely wonderful football players that will all have strong seasons IMO and if we get an extra 5-10% out of each you'd have to be extremely negative to think we will go backwards.
De Gea will be the De Gea we know again.
The following COULD happen (probably won't all happen but just one or two of these improvements can go along way) :-
Martial shows the type of form and consistency his talent is clearly capable of. That and/or Rashford also does. Let's say Sanchez plays on the right and we get more out of either/both of these we are rocking. Mourinho may be a lot of things but he's a prideful man that has a point to prove and a winner. He's not going to be oblivious to the things we see and barely any of us have managed a pub team let alone a top flight football team.
Fred settles in well and becomes an important player and integral cog in our midfield. Taking some of the workload off Matic and giving Pogba more of what he needs.
Herrera shows the consistency of his player of the season campaign. Will really help fill in when the games are coming thick and fast. Herrera was largely average last season but in a contract year and with the competition given the type of player he is I'm expecting a good season from him again.
Bailly stays fit and shows the form of his first season.
Lindelof gets better and grows into the team. Lindelof nor Bailly were the finished articles when we signed them and our manager said as much. I'm sure at least one of them will turn out to be a very good defender given Jose's record with defenders.
Those things happening are very realistic and like I said they might not all happen but they surely won't all not happen.
I'm not really expecting Shaw to grab his chance unfortunately so left-back is a cause of concern for me and I'd like an experienced quality defender but we have three weeks to go and the press aren't anything to go by so I think we'll fill one of those positions. I'd say I'll lose a little optimism if we don't address either area but I am patient since our last two transfers basically happened overnight and I'm certain they were scouted for a while.
Do you mean right?Right now not really, but there is still time to make moves in the market.
I think we need fullback upgrades and left winger.
Haha yeah, no idea why I wrote left...Do you mean right?
What is the problem then? We have no right winger. No wingers at all actually. No proper LB or RB. No real leader at CB. No real quality in midfield aside from the starters.It's weird that so many people's answer to this topic is rooted almost entirely in whether we buy a couple more players, that's not really the problem.
Mourinho, I fully believe a different manager would get a lot more out of Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Sanchez, but they all looked shells by the end of last season under his coaching, tactics and in the case of Pogba and Martial, his awful man management. Signing Alex Sandro and another CB isn't going to alter anything.What is the problem then?
It's both imo. Better coaching with some of the players we have like Pogba, Martial, Rashford. But also personnel. Some players are not good enough at all no matter what coaching you give. Especially in defence. Entering the new season with a backline of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Young is basically conceding the title already. Of course Alex Sandro and a top CB would change things.Mourinho, I fully believe a different manager would get a lot more out of Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Sanchez, but they all looked shells by the end of last season under his coaching, tactics and in the case of Pogba and Martial, his awful man management. Signing Alex Sandro and another CB isn't going to alter anything.
I think MCFC are giving Pep everything he wants. Everything.No board in the history of any club "give everything he needs" to manager. There are always limitations and restrictions.
So you only enjoy games in which we score 4 goals?No amount of new player(s) will change the dire football that Mourinho's teams play.
Hated his Chelsea and Madrid teams. I tried so hard to tolerate the boring football that we had in the last 4 years (under LVG and Mourinho). The only short period of time that I enjoyed this team was the beginning of last season when we scored 4 goals for 5-6 games in a row.
Everything went down hill when we got close to Xmas time.
Liverpool have made some good signings . But and it's a big but will it all work out will city improve even more ,are Arsenal on their way back ? Spurs will they ever get it right ? New Chelsea what are they going To do ? And there's plenty of time for Utd to get some stuff done will mou eventually become the special one At OT? Football is interesting all the same .All doom and gloom in here, pl hyping up liverpool as always. It is really getting tiring! Ge ta life!
The CB's we have are not top of the line I agree, but two of them can become that and Smalling is a solid performer, certainly no worse than the CB's of the team that won the PL last season. I wouldn't argue the fullback situation with anyone as it's obvious that going into the season with Valencia and Young is laughable, but no signings will alter the fact that our key attacking players do not perform to their potential due to the coaching, tactics and man management, and without them performing nothing will change, 2 fullbacks wont alter the issues with them.It's both imo. Better coaching with some of the players we have like Pogba, Martial, Rashford. But also personnel. Some players are not good enough at all no matter what coaching you give. Especially in defence. Entering the new season with a backline of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Young is basically conceding the title already. Of course Alex Sandro and a top CB would change things.