The ones who do get criticized though.
Mesut Özil retires from "die Mannschaft"
- Thread starter OutlawGER
- Start date
So do the ones who don’t.
Didn't even notice him on pitch at the World cup. But this is not news, he'll change his mind and come back.
Good riddance.
I find it absolutely baffling of how the narrative of 'dictator' gets peddled out when it comes to Erodgan. The guy was seen impartially by the wider world pre the 2016 coup attempt, and now suddenly he's the second coming of Idi Amin, despite you know winning the election this year with 50% of the vote and having widespread support in Turkey.
It was a photo at a London charity even I believe ffs.
It was a photo at a London charity even I believe ffs.
It's not an either or for me. I think he clearly made a mistake in doing that photo-op with Erdogan (if he disagrees with his policies and political views). The man and his views should not be separated from the position he holds, that's a common attempt to pave over the important stuff.
It was his decision to pose with Erdogan and in that sense it was an endorsement. Unless he were to have had clarified his political position immediately afterwards, which he didn't really.
All this still does not justify being treated appallingly by the German FA.
It was his decision to pose with Erdogan and in that sense it was an endorsement. Unless he were to have had clarified his political position immediately afterwards, which he didn't really.
All this still does not justify being treated appallingly by the German FA.
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From a footballing standpoint, he had an excelent 2010 WC, did very well in the Euro 2012, was decent in the 2014 WC, had above average (acceptable) performances in the Euro 2016 and had anonymous performances in this year's WC.
This decision will possibly extend his career at the top level as he will be fitter for most of the seasons. He's Arsenal main man now, big things are still expected of him, hope the possibility of becoming a club legend motivates him.
About the political side, Mesut didn't break any law and actually never had any problems with the law as far as i'm aware of. The people targeting him are evil, the man has the right to do whatever he wants in his free time.
I understand that this Erdogan guy is not viewed well by most germans and by the media but sending hate messages and questioning if Mesut is truly german crosses all the lines, some people in this world are truly evil.
This decision will possibly extend his career at the top level as he will be fitter for most of the seasons. He's Arsenal main man now, big things are still expected of him, hope the possibility of becoming a club legend motivates him.
About the political side, Mesut didn't break any law and actually never had any problems with the law as far as i'm aware of. The people targeting him are evil, the man has the right to do whatever he wants in his free time.
I understand that this Erdogan guy is not viewed well by most germans and by the media but sending hate messages and questioning if Mesut is truly german crosses all the lines, some people in this world are truly evil.
Oh I've just seen that! What...?
I'm so disappointed, one of my favorite player. I always enjoy watch him play with Germany.
Well, I guess there isn't another possible ending, what happened in Germany with the DFB's lack of support and the right politicians (and footballers) who used him as target was shocking.
He has nothing to regret from the picture with Erdogan to his 2 good games against Korea and Mexico. He actually never shows a lack of motivation with the NT. In all the generation 2014, I don't think he is the first man to criticize. He was sometimes correct but never bad since 2014. And if we talk about image, he was really respectful in 2016 to France, giving a good image of German NT
But now there are all the new problems in Germany, It's seems the Turkish roots he never hides or rejects are no longer accepted or a good thing showing the greatness of german integration's politics. All those immigrants like him or Dahoud must choose.
I'm so disappointed, one of my favorite player. I always enjoy watch him play with Germany.
Well, I guess there isn't another possible ending, what happened in Germany with the DFB's lack of support and the right politicians (and footballers) who used him as target was shocking.
He has nothing to regret from the picture with Erdogan to his 2 good games against Korea and Mexico. He actually never shows a lack of motivation with the NT. In all the generation 2014, I don't think he is the first man to criticize. He was sometimes correct but never bad since 2014. And if we talk about image, he was really respectful in 2016 to France, giving a good image of German NT
But now there are all the new problems in Germany, It's seems the Turkish roots he never hides or rejects are no longer accepted or a good thing showing the greatness of german integration's politics. All those immigrants like him or Dahoud must choose.
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Come on now. Easy to win “democratic” elections when you control all the media and routinely imprison political opponents and 10s of thousands of civilians on treason charges. When you completely control the judiciary after firing and imprisoning everyone who doesn’t like you.
I mean if you can’t see all the hallmarks of a dictator in Erdogan then you might be a bit light on history and how dictators emerge and rule.
Over the top the reaction on Ozil it might have been, but let’s not suddenly alter reality on what Erdogan is and does.
To say he should be suspended for pictures with Erdogan is the bigger disgrace. Why? Does Ozil hold some political office? Also, Ozil is of Turkish origin. It's not like Erdogan is the head of an apartheid state or something where there's a completely indefensible humanitarian disaster.
26m votes out of 50m, another party got 17m. 86% turnout. Not dictatorial at all.
The political prisoner thing has to be seen in context of the 2016 coup. You have two choices there - either let the coup happen, or jail the people involved. Yes it's harsh, but you either do that or go the way of Gaddafi. Without that coup happening none of the jailings occur.
Not sure how true the controlling all the media thing is either, but can't be that bad if an opposition party manages to get together 17m votes.
I just think whilst Erodgan should be open to criticism and has made some questionable decisions, putting him akin to a dictator is widely off the mark and just being brandied around by people far too easily. It's just lazy really.
Here's a brief recap of imprisoned journalists over the years. This was highlighted by OSCE:
- Courts often impose exceptionally long imprisonment sentences. The longest conviction is 166 years and the longest jail sentence sought for a journalist is 3,000 years.
- Many journalists face double life sentences if convicted, some without possibility for parole. Courts do not tend to grant pre-trial release of defendants.
- There is concern that arrests and long pre-trial detentions without conviction are used as a form of intimidation.
On the contrary, I think it's lazy to assume that since he didn't get all the votes he must not be doing a good job of taking of the means of disseminating information. There is without doubt an authoritarian trend growing around the world and right wing nationalist populism is a precursor to fascism. There have also recently been surveys in various countries asking people about how highly they priorities democracy (within democratic countries) and what one would assume would be a rather obvious thing is not so obvious. Partly because democratic institutions have failed the populations they are meant to serve and partly because people are buying into populist rhetoric. The answer to the crisis is clearly not to surrender hard earned rights and freedoms but to actually reinforce those rights and freedoms.
Your language use is important as is his, and in fact the distinction explains his point perfectly. He sees it as double, you see it as two halves.Talk about hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness, at the start of his letter:
"I have two hearts, one German, one Turkish".
At the end of his letter:
"Are there criteria for being fully German which I do not fit? My friend Lukas Podolski and Miroslav Klose are never referred to as German-Polish, so why am I German-Turkish? Is it because it is Turkey? Is it because I'm Muslim? I think here lays an important issue. By being referred to as German-Turkish, it is already distinguishing people who have family from more than one country".
Well gee, one surefire way of being referred to as German-Turkish would be by describing yourself as half German and half Turkish.
This is for all the civil rights activists here who use facebook and are offended by Ozil getting a self-admittedly completely apolitical pic with Erdogan
Iirc, the bearded guy in the pic still doesn't let women drive by themselves in his country and also proclaimed recently on a tv interview on his business tour in the USA that he'll rule until he's dead- not a hoot from anywhere was heard. Let us know how your boycott of facebook goes.
And this, for people who type out of a Windows PC
Never a fan of whataboutism, but had to be done to lend some perspective.
And this, for people who type out of a Windows PC
Never a fan of whataboutism, but had to be done to lend some perspective.
This comparison makes absolutely no sense.
Overreaction from the german, insensitive from ozil. Takes 2 to tango
We should be boycotting 'tyrants' and everyone who takes pictures with them, no?This comparison makes absolutely no sense.
It’s amazing how Muller wasn’t even criticized half as much as Ozil during the World Cup despise being about ten times worse.
It's a tough one, this. On one hand, Ozil should know better than to take a photo with Erdogan, on the other, why should his political views and stance be used as a stick to hound him out of playing football for his country?
He's been calling himself half German half Turkish for years. Didn't bother the Germans when they won the World Cup with him.
He's been calling himself half German half Turkish for years. Didn't bother the Germans when they won the World Cup with him.
FFS. He jailed at least 10,000 people! Do you really believe they were all part of the coup? I know people who had nothing to do with politics who got arrested because of a school they went to.
Corruption, media control, abuse of justice and power - what does he need to do to become more dictatorial?
Probably the greatest myth in modern football.
Can he play for the two national teams simultaneously?
Anyway, that guy strikes me as quite naive, intentionally or unintentionally. You can't separate the person from the statesman and respecting the president isn't the same as respecting the country. What are you talking about, Mesut?
Only if he were afraid for his family's welfare would such a response be good for him, and then that should be resolved with the DFB behind closed doors.
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He was made a scapegoat imo. But it was very silly by him anyway. No problem with making photos, but to say my president was wrong when you're playing for Germany. I think this statement was the problem not the photo.
Anyway, many Turkish people in Germany are racists, talking about 2023, that they will bring the ottoman empire back. Very annoying. Voting for Erdogan but are living in Germany, so they don't know really how the life is in Turkey. Poor people in Turkey, get outvoted by racist idiots in foreign countries.
Anyway, many Turkish people in Germany are racists, talking about 2023, that they will bring the ottoman empire back. Very annoying. Voting for Erdogan but are living in Germany, so they don't know really how the life is in Turkey. Poor people in Turkey, get outvoted by racist idiots in foreign countries.
On what grounds exactly?
Just to clear one thing popping up in this thread, was it Gundogan who wrote 'My President' or Ozil? I seem to remember it was Gundogan who wrote that message and not Ozil.
Germans persecuting a player because he is proud of his roots. What can possibly go wrong?
Has he asked Erdogan about his friend Hakan Sukur perhaps?
And he was talking about Germany not being democratic enough. Pretty ironic.
And he was talking about Germany not being democratic enough. Pretty ironic.
Absolutely correct. Not only Erdogan used the word to describe Merkel and her government, but he actually said that Germans are 'grandchildren of Nazis'. In the end, though racism definitely played a part, ultimately it's his personal choices that have brought his international career to a halt.
The whole story is a tough one and in a way it's hard not to have at least a bit of sympathy for the guy. Some of the abuse he gets are completely unwarranted, because let's not forget that he helped Germany win the World Cup four years ago. At the same time, however, in this current climate he should have known way better when he smiled proudly as he posed for a picture with Erdogan.
Not hypocrisy at allTalk about hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness, at the start of his letter:
"I have two hearts, one German, one Turkish".
At the end of his letter:
"Are there criteria for being fully German which I do not fit? My friend Lukas Podolski and Miroslav Klose are never referred to as German-Polish, so why am I German-Turkish? Is it because it is Turkey? Is it because I'm Muslim? I think here lays an important issue. By being referred to as German-Turkish, it is already distinguishing people who have family from more than one country".
Well gee, one surefire way of being referred to as German-Turkish would be by describing yourself as half German and half Turkish.
Simple reading comprehension: He's implying that Germans don't like or fully integrate in their society people with turkish ancestry, but are more than happy to integrate other people like the Poles. He himself loves both Countries.
And he has a good point.
btw none of this would have happened if Germany played well in the World Cup. He was made the scapegoat, I can't blame him.
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It's a good thing he's playing in England, I can only imagine the abuse he would receive playing there week in week out.
Failing his role model responsibility.
For posing for a picture?
Sport is meant to be apolitical. Suspending someone on the grounds that he took a picture with a political leader is just way out there. I realise Erdogan and Germany is an inflammated topic, but this is hysteric.
Sport was meant to be apolitical yet Ozil didn't think it was a problem to take that picture?
If this hasn't been clear yet: most people see this as a political endorsement for Erdogan in the (back then) upcoming elections in Turkey. Far from a simple picture.
Wtf is dis manshaft ! Why is it so hard to say Germany?
This is scapegoating at its finest. Scandalous photograph ruining the chances of the defending champions. It's strange noone in that organisation is able to see how petty and silly they are coming across. I held the German footballing body in higher regard than this but of course I was wrong. fecking clowns, the lot of them.
This is scapegoating at its finest. Scandalous photograph ruining the chances of the defending champions. It's strange noone in that organisation is able to see how petty and silly they are coming across. I held the German footballing body in higher regard than this but of course I was wrong. fecking clowns, the lot of them.
His photo-op with Erdogan was no doubt really stupid considering the German Turkish relations etc, but there's no doubt that the DFB used him as a scapegoat after Germany's elimination from the WC to blame the attention. Hard not to sympathize with Ozil right now, doing so much for your country only to be labelled a lot of things just because of a photo-op.
Ok yeah
But is that Ozil's fault?
Erdogan was on a state visit to the UK at the time its worth saying - so our government were more then happy to host him in this country. Does that mean our government were supporting him in the elections?
Also, on a completely separate note... Has Angela Merkal ever had her picture taken with him? Or with any other dodgy political figure? Also, has any German player or "legend" put their weight behind the Qatar WC bid?
Hoping I was tagged by accident as I have stayed clear of this thread
