The Impossible Draft - Finals: Enigma vs Idmanager

Who will win this draft?


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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............................................... TEAM ENIGMA .............................................
...........................................................vs........................................................
....................................... TEAM IDMANAGER .....................................






TEAM ENIGMA

Formation: 4-2-3-1
Defensive line: normal
Style: direct, fast tempo. Team build around Zico as main playmaker, solid powerful midfield, watertight defence and top notch attacking unit.

Team card:

70's - PAVEL NEDVED (CZECH REPUBLIC)
60's - GABRIEL BATISTUTA (ARGENTINA) + COPA, MATTHIAS SAMMER (GERMANY) + CL
50's
- ZICO (BRAZIL), KARL-HEINZ RUMMENIGGE (GERMANY) + CL
40's
- SILVIO MARZOLINI (ARGENTINA), ALBERT SHESTERNYOV (RUSSIA)
30's - DUNCAN EDWARDS (ENGLAND), IGOR NETTO (RUSSIA)
20's - DJALMA SANTOS (BRAZIL) + WC
10's
- OBDULIO VARELA (URUGUAY) + WC + COPA
00's
- FRANTISEK PLANICKA (CZECH REPUBLIC)

Team Profiles:

GK: František Plánička - the Czech keeper always seems to make the top 10 lists of the best keeper of all time and it is to no surprise. He was widely considered the best keeper in the world in the 30's and a keeper well ahead of his time. His reflexes, shot stopping and command of his era was top notch and one of his main characteristics was his aerial ability and collecting crosses and picking loose balls.

LB: Silvio Marzolini - The only South American in the World Cup all-star team, Silvio Marzolini is arguably the best Argentinian left-back of all-time. At 26, he looked elegant even when he was tackling and loved to run with the ball – he rarely overran it either, instinctively sensing when the right pass was on. In 1966, he was slightly better than Inter and Italy legend Giacinto Facchetti and might be more highly rated if he hadn’t rejected lucrative offers to stay at his beloved Boca Juniors. He had a fantastic career with Boca Juniors, winning five league titles and one Copa Argentina, whilst being a solid pillar in the defensive unit.

RB: Djalma Santos - While primarily known for his defensive skills, he often ventured upfield and displayed some impressive attacking skills, excellent crossing ability and distribution of the ball whilst also a dead-ball specialist.He was never sent-off during his career. Djalma went to the midfield to distribute the ball in great way was one of the first overlapping full backs along with Nilton on the other flank. It was very hard find Djalma misplaced at any position, his skills in one on one situations, anticipation, vision, passing(both long and short), reading of the game were superb. No wonder he's considered by many the best right back of all time.

CB: Matthias Sammer - The modern day Beckenbauer was a fantastic player on its own. Sammer, at their peak was the heart of everything good, running the side from deep, and was pivotal in Dortmund's and Germany winning back to back Bundesliga titles, the 96' EURO and the CL in 97 on the back of some fantastic defensive displays. He was inspirational against Croatia in the quarter-finals at Wembley, proving the difference between a resolute Germany side and a tremendously gifted Croatian one. The game itself was physical, but Sammer rose above it all, demonstrating his ability at both ends of the pitch. Winning a penalty, which Klinsmann converted, and scoring the second as Die Mannschaft kept a clean sheet. It is rare for a defender to win individual awards today but was a little more common a couple of decades ago. Sammer had been crowned German Footballer of the Year in 1995 and 1996, but was now officially the best player at Euro 96, and added a Ballon d’Or later that year, beating off stiff competition from Ronaldo and Alan Shearer.

CB: Albert Shesternyov - One of the greatest outfield Russian footballer of all-time, Shesternyov's career lasted just 13 years, but spanned the entire 1960's, which he spent exclusively with CSKA Moscow. He won nominated for the Ballon d'Or four times. He was phenomenal athlete and 100 metres for around 11 seconds in his youth, was champion not just area, but also of Moscow and Moscow region, showing excellent results in the 200 metres long and triple jump. His outstanding features included also a great jump and heading ability and fantastic defensive skills.

DM: Obdulio Varela - inspirational World Cup winning captain, he's probably the best DM in the pool with the absence of Desailly and Rijkaard. He was the archetype of the rioplatense No. 5, or deep-lying midfielder; able to handle himself physically, superb at shielding his defence and linking play to the midfield, Varela also had a ferocious shot from outside the penalty area, which England learned in Switzerland during the 1954 World Cup. In the quarterfinals, with the score at 1-1 and six minutes before half-time, Varela hit a fine drive from outside the box that England goalkeeper Gil Merrick couldn't reach - it was one of any number of long-rangers he scored during his career.

Great article on him for those interested - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-impossible-draft.439309/page-35#post-22784539

CM(box to box): Duncan Edwards - one of United's all time greats, held by Sir Bobby and many others from that time in the highest regard possible:

"He was the best player I've ever seen and the best footballer I ever played with," says Sir Bobby Charlton. "I always felt I could compare well with any player - except Duncan. He was such a talent, I always felt inferior to him."

Even Matt Busby, who was vehement in his refusal to acknowledge that one 'Babe' might be regarded as more important than the others, could not camouflage the tone of awe that entered his voice whenever Edwards' name was raised. "Duncan had everything. He was so big, so strong, so confident and still so young. Right from the start we gave up trying to spot flaws in his game. John Charles was another giant of a player, a giant with great, great skill. But as a player, even John didn't have as much as Duncan. He used to move upfield brushing people aside to lash in late goals when we needed them."

According to Busby, ". . . the bigger the occasion the better he liked it".


On the day of his funeral, more than 5,000 people lined the streets of Dudley, following which Jimmy Murphy offered the following valediction: "If I shut my eyes now I can see him; the pants hitched up, the wild leaps of boyish enthusiasm as he came running out of the tunnel, the tremendous power of his tackling, always fair but fearsome, his immense power on the ball. The greatest? There was only one and that was Duncan Edwards."

AMC(Playmaker): Zico - To me the best player in the draft and on the park. He’s the greatest Brazilian to never win a World Cup. Pele once said: “The one player that came closest to me in playing style was Zico.” He had it all - vision, passing, one of the best dribblers and close control, whilst having the goalscoring ability of any forward in history - scoring more than 500 goals for club and country, not playing as a striker.

AML/LW: Pavel Nedvěd - One of the best midfielders in the last 30 years and one of the best ever to wear the black and white stripes of Juve. You always know what you get with him; goals, assists, great play-making, and hardwork. All while playing with high energy and infectious passion. He was very good defensively as well. A truly complete player and a Ballon D'or winner to boot.

RWF: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge - a quote from El Mundo Deportivo back in 82 describes him best - "It hasn’t been a coincidence that he’s been voted two consecutive seasons in a row as the best European player. He has been the undisputable best player in Europe and for his country. The WC won’t be a deciding factor to his reputation, because he is already an accomplished player at the age of 26, and regarded as one of the major stars in the world. Success at the WC will just confirm for Germany that they have one of the greatest players in their history."

CF: Gabriel Batistuta - One of the best and complete #9's in history. He was an agile, evasive and inventive forward. He’d drop deep, link play, run in behind. Bully, harass, out-smart. There is a reason Diego Maradona once said he was the best centre forward of all time. He passed it into the net, powered headers, dinked, chipped and clipped it past hapless custodians. And of course, from time to time, he simply smashed it.

Great article on him for those interested - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-impossible-draft.439309/page-29#post-22723285

Defence: Every great attacking team needs a solid foundation at the back and we have that with 2 of the greatest CB's of all time and certainly in their respective era's - Shesternyov and Sammer. Both are defensive walls equally adapt to handle the danger in the air and on the deck. Then we have the most complete full back in Djalma Santos on the right and one of the best left backs in Marzolini who also had a good taste for the attack and carrying the ball forward.

Midfield: Our midfield unit is constructed of solid defensively so that it can shield the back four, but also move the ball to Zico and Nedved, which would be Duncan's role and win the ball back quickly to start prompt counter attacks. Edwards and Varela are great in the defensive phase, which will allow Zico to run the game, whilst Nedved's presence would add up to the midfield battle and give us another body in midfield.

In terms of pool and quite possibly all time, a midfield base of Duncan Edwards and Varela is as good as it gets and we would definitely have an edge there.

Varela vs Rivelino would be a great battle and the former is someone who stacks up pretty well to him, whilst no stranger to taking care of Brazilian elite playmakers as shown in the 50 WC final against Zizinho. A midfield of Edwards, Varela and with the help of Nedved and Zico would cut the supply to ID forward line and limit the opportunities they will get in front of goal. Edwards enormous presence in midfield would only add up to our advantage there and overload the middle of the park.

Attack: A team that is definitely build around a fantastic attack, this is our focal point. Nedved, Kalle, Zico and Batistuta is an attacking unit that has it all and one of the best in their positions individually. Our attack has it all - the grit and determination of Nedved, Kalle and Batistuta, complimented by the incredible vision, pure flair and Dribbling ability of Zico. Zico, Batistuta and Kalle are phenomenal goalscorers and we have a lot of different routes for goal. Kalle would excel alongside physical and complete forward in Batistuta, to play off him and come from the right, whilst also Batigol creates space for him and Zico to make late runs in the box. Nedved with his endless stamina will buzz around the pitch add to the midfield battle as well as provide our forward line with creativity.

Advantages:

Our team is well set up very well to counter ID's main strengths. We have a top CB pairing who are both excellent in the positional, pure tackling, in the air and athletic department with Sammer and Shesternyov stacking pretty well to the aerial threat of Spencer. Varela would also limit the effect of Rivelino, thus cutting off the supply to the forwards and the creativity in ID's side.

The biggest assets in IDmanager set up are his flanks and they are well taken care. There isn't really a better full back pair to counter Gento/Matthews than Marzolini and Djalma - who are both excellent defensively and their all time credentials stack up pretty well to the opposition pair.

On the other end we feel we have a great advantage in Zico targeting Ocwirk who was more of a deep lying playmaker than a destroyer or DM and Zico with his talent and skill would prove to be a pivotal figure in the game, also being the best player on the park. Kalle vs Zebec is another advantage we have in this matchup as Zebec was more of a left midfielder, attacking left back that was later in his career converted into CB and not really the best fit stylistically to Kalle who would roam all over the place and find gaps left by him in the defensive unit.

Worth mentioning as well is Kalle's and Batigol teamwork and pressing ability forward, which will be our first line of defence.

We feel we have more individual quality in all lines and especially Zico proving to be the difference in a setup that gets the best of him. Our midfield pair in Edwards and Varela would be a bit too hot to handle for the opposition whilst also Sammer surging forward would bring plenty of surprises for ID's defensive line.

On Sammer himself - here he has a brilliant setup to get the best of him - two defensively great midfielders in Edwards and Varela and a RB who is tactically and defensively complimentary Djalma Santos.

Sammer would surge forward when we're with the ball whilst Edwards, Varela and Djalma protect the gaps left by him and when we're off it Sammer would again be the true leader of the back like he did for Germany and Dortmund at his peak.

TEAM IDMANAGER:

TACTICS:

Our team is full of attacking talent and hence that is the way we are going to play.
We will look to play direct attacking football.

The main star of the team is its midfield. It doesn't have the shiny names which Enigma does in Varela, Edwards and Zico. But it does have one common character across the midfield three. All of them were all round midfielders who contributed greatly during both the attacking and defensive phases of the game.

Davids' all round game doesn't need any selling. Rivellino helped out tremendously in the 1970 WC Brazil team which had a passenger in Gerson in a 2 man midfield. More on Ocwirk and his role further in the post.

Football is a team game and so, the idea is very simple. The midfield 3 defend together closing down and trying to win the ball when out of possession and attack as a unit with a tricky and quick Number 10 in Rivellino, an all energy B2B in Davids and a great orchestrator in Ocwirk (DM-cum-playmaker) forming the perfect balanced setup.

Only one full back will attack at one time. Considering both Carlos Alberto and Zebec were comfortable playing at CB as well, when one attacks, the other would tuck in to form a 3 man shield at the back to not leave gaps for counters.

To understand how the setup is supposed to work, it is important to understand the role of perhaps the most unique but the least known midfield player on the pitch on both sides.

And hence, I present the Captain of the team - Ernst Ocwirk - in more detail.



System he played in back then:

In the older days, players who took the field had on the jersey numbers from one to eleven.

Even if the "method" as it was referred to back in the day when Ocwirk was playing is long gone , it is easier to explain how it was played in the early post-war period using these numbers.

The so-called "method" consisted of the two medians (nos. 4 and 6), who marked the opposing wings, placed wide and higher than the backs (nos. 2 and 3), who were more narrow and backward.

It is easy to deduce that moving back the two medians on the line of the full-backs came the four-man defense in the years that came afterwards.

The number five, "centromediano metodista", term used by the old chroniclers, had the task of organizing the game both in defense and in attack.

In other words, he was the one who would then be called "director".

Ernst Ocwirk was perhaps the greatest "Central Methodist"

The great Austrian team of 50's was one of the few teams still playing in what was effectively still a pre war style. Two full backs (centre backs), a defensively minded centre-half, flanked by two half backs and five forwards


Positional and functional flexibility of Ocwirk:

Ocwirk played in his career in 2-3-5 and 3-2-5 formations, where both the distribution from the back, as well as containing the opposing storm had to be organized by one player, even though they were two very different roles, played by the same central anchor.

At the World Cup in 1954 Ocwirk was the central anchor in the 2-3-5, ahead of Hanappi and Happel as two very strong center-backs and alongside half-runners Koller on the left and Barschandt on the right.

Ocwirk intelligently secured the advances of his teammates, mostly occupying the center in front of the two defenders with the off-ball half-runners out wide on the same axis. He occasionally moved forward himself.

Interestingly, Ocwirk not only built and secured the game from the back, but was also a box-to-box player. Again and again there were long-range advances, with which he generated presence in the last third.

However, it is important to note that there were no solo runs, but more nudging moves from the depths when open spaces for rebounds, long range shots and the need for extra attackers when the opposition fell off presented themselves.

Ocwirk was considered not only a highly intelligent game designer, but also as an extremely strong header and strong-shooting midfielder.

Ocwirk's great strength was the recognition of various situation and acting upon them as needed.
In numerous combinations of the then Austrian team, it was especially Koller on the left, who advanced on the wide side, while Ocwirk gallantly moved into the resulting rooms left behind, secured the area and offered a route to fall back if the attackers were pressed off the ball.

This was followed by distance shots, individual dribbles with subsequent vertical passes and beautiful diagonal balls against the opposing defense line.

If Koller successfully made his runs and beat his man, for example, Ocwirk moved from the back with force in the direction of the penalty area.

He was not only able to open rooms for the strikers ahead, but profited from the enormous amount of attackers who already occupied the area and needed to be marked leaving him free.

In addition, when working against the ball it was common for Ocwirk to form a tight, flat triangle with the two defenders. Hanappi and Happel.

The triangle turned and blocked the opponent's options on the ball centrally. The two half-runners were allowed to act significantly more free due to this rigidness.

Hanappi especially had a great partnership with Ocwirk. Hanappi always had the option to bring the ball out out flexibly. Ocwirk blocked the middle and the ball-playing center-back was able to move forward.


Ocwirk today?

In the early fifties he was the best midfielder in the world, lost almost no ball thanks to his ball control and physique, distributed it strategically with intelligent long balls and thanks to his extreme game intelligence and physical nature, played both the offensive and defensive roles with almost no error.

It is always hard to guess about the suitability of previous players in today's world.
Of course, not a single one could keep up with today's sprint machines purely from the physical point of view, also the technical-tactical know-how has improved enormously.

On the assumption that Ocwirk had maintained his playing character and his relative technical and physical quality in the time comparison, he would have become a midfield great of the modern times.

Most likely you could call it a mix of Michael Carrick, Sergio Busquets and Yaya Touré, if you want to choose 21st century modern footballers for comparison.

His passing game and his pressing resistance in today's football are more suitable for the deeper zones, where he would also have fit in well with his defensive style of play.

Even in those years Ocwirk embodied an ideal that is still sought today (and now more than ever), which was put well by a great Austrian writer back then:

"He is the soul of the team, combines the highest game intelligence and grace with precision and economy of power. His game represents the only practicable application of the collective principle, the only successful balance between individual and community, in which the whole idea of the team game accumulates. " - Friedrich Torberg in the Viennese Kurier, 1954
 

harms

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Frankly I'm not sure that @idmanager's team got better, in fact I probably prefer his semi-final set up with Bergkamp
 

Theon

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Frankly I'm not sure that @idmanager's team got better, in fact I probably prefer his semi-final set up with Bergkamp
Strange, I feel the complete opposite and think he's made some clear upgrades.

It's Enigma's that have surprised me. Not a fan of Sammer in a back four, prefer him in his peak libero role if playing in defence or failing that as a midfielder.

In a back four I don't think Sammer is a better defender than Santamaria so didn't expect that move at all.
 

Enigma_87

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Strange, I feel the complete opposite and think he's made some clear upgrades.

It's Enigma's that have surprised me. Not a fan of Sammer in a back four, prefer him in his peak libero role if playing in defence or failing that as a midfielder.

In a back four I don't think Sammer is a better defender than Santamaria so didn't expect that move at all.
I know that many have questioned Sammer in a back four, but this setup isn't really a conventional 4-2-3-1 with 2 attacking full backs. Plus with Edwards and Varela he has the freedom to bomb forward and has the perfect stage to do so.

Varela is in his zone here as well as a DM/anchor falling into the vacated CB position - a role what you'd have trouble have a better man in history to do so apart from Rijkaard.

In essence Djalma, Varela and Shesternyov would cover for him when he forages forward with the ball - something very familiar for him in that 5-3-2/3-5-2 setup he usually occupied.

Also, bearing in mind the opposition Shesternyov is very good fit for Spencer - strong, excellent in the air, agile and fast, whilst Sammer can cover for either full backs on the side and counter Rivelino in ID's team.

In essence he's still playing in that libero role if you go through each player tasks and assignments in the back line, considering there is really no better protection to the back four than Varela and Edwards before him.
 
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Enigma_87

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Frankly I'm not sure that @idmanager's team got better, in fact I probably prefer his semi-final set up with Bergkamp
I saw the great detailed description of Ocwirk's role, but to me, Zico would have plenty of joy here against a double pivot 4-2-3-1.

It has always been an argument how you would take care of a great #10 like Zico and for me you have to have a man to mark him, or atleast occupy the zone all the time limiting his time on the ball. From what I know of Ocwirk he isn't exactly the type to restrict Zico here or stop him from running the game.

ID has more work rate in Rivelino but we've also added Sammer, whose surging runs from deep would be very lethal to the opposition.
 

Enigma_87

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Some obligatory videos of Sammer:


Also at his peak Sammer produced one helluva defensive displays both for Germany and Dortmund.

It goes without saying that his exploits in 96' brought the title to Germany but the way he also kept us quiet in 97 CL and his tremendous display against Juve in the final are another very good examples of his feats at the time in pure defensive sense, not only his ability going forward.
 

Theon

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I know that many have questioned Sammer in a back four, but this setup isn't really a conventional 4-2-3-1 with 2 attacking full backs. Plus with Edwards and Varela he has the freedom to bomb forward and has the perfect stage to do so.

Varela is in his zone here as well as a DM/anchor falling into the vacated CB position - a role what you'd have trouble have a better man in history to do so apart from Rijkaard.

In essence Djalma, Varela and Shesternyov would cover for him when he forages forward with the ball - something very familiar for him in that 5-3-2/3-5-2 setup he usually occupied.
Fair enough but can't agree with much of that at all to be honest mate. It sounds quite a chaotic set up for me to have Sammer moving forward whilst being covered by all these different players at different times. If you want to play Sammer as a libero then put him in a 3-5-2, or if you want him box to box have him in midfield. If you want a defender in a back four I'd have just kept Santamaria, no idea why he got the boot.

Also I think there are clearly better CB / CM hybrids than Varela for dropping into a back line and wouldn't say that was him in his element or zone at all. Varela in his zone would surely just be him as a midfielder without having to worry about covering for other players in the back four.
 

Enigma_87

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Fair enough but can't agree with much of that at all to be honest mate. It sounds quite a chaotic set up for me to have Sammer moving forward whilst being covered by all these different players at different times. If you want to play Sammer as a libero then put him in a 3-5-2, or if you want him box to box have him in midfield. If you want a defender in a back four I'd have just kept Santamaria, no idea why he got the boot.

Also I think there are clearly better CB / CM hybrids than Varela for dropping into a back line and wouldn't say that was him in his element or zone at all. Varela in his zone would surely just be him as a midfielder without having to worry about covering for other players in the back four.
It's isn't like that tho. He's being covered by Varela. Varela himself played as a half back and also CB numerous times in his careers. He's one of the best anchors in the game.

Sammer brings forward his ability on the ball, the ability to start counters from deep and the ability to stretch the game in attack when we're in possession.

At his peak he was all that - a threat at both ends, and whilst Santamaria is a great defender on his own Sammer a Ballon D'or winner on the back of not his goals and ability in midfield but the way he organized the defence and also kept the opposition attackers at bay.

The setup is more dynamic than conventional back 4 and a double pivot I agree, but the opposition itself fields a more dynamic setup, especially when you consider Zebec at LB and Ocwirk with another dual role, having also to cope with the best player on the park in Zico.

Sammer himself plays in his natural libero role. Players aren't sitting still, and he himself made it work with a lot of different personalities at his peak - both at Dortmund and Germany, that set up wasn't chaotic either, just more dynamic as depicted here.
 
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Enigma_87

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I bit more in detail for the libero and Sammer's role, which often seems a lot challenging incorporating in draft games and especially the man himself:

Allowing a defender the license to step up into midfield when in possession could mean that a midfielder could be replaced by an attacker, or that midfielder could push up with encouragement to attack. This would possibly turn a 4-2-3-1 into a 3-3-1-3 or 3-3-3-1. With two defenders to cover the forward movement of the libero and wing backs to cover the wide areas, the libero would in no way be a defensive liability, and could be the deep-lying playmaker without the need for a specialised player in defensive midfield.
In essence we have Varela to cover for him when he forages forward. Djalma/Marzolini cover the wide areas, whilst Shesternyov is occupied with Spencer.

It's always 3 at the back, regardless of where the ball is when we're in possession.

Also bear in mind that the opposition fields a lone striker which makes it easier to defend centrally rather than having 2 bodies forward with Sammer's absence.

During the 1996 European Championships, Matthias Sammer played slightly deeper than the other defenders, in order to intercept passes closer to goal, and to break forward into midfield when necessary.
as depicted on the formation graphic - Djalma and Marzolini in defensive to balanced roles with always 3 at the back depending on where the ball is and which flank we occupy in possession.

Perhaps the most important quality required of the “Libero”, is to be able to instigate attacks from deeper positions. As soon as possession is retained, the “Libero” could begin a quick counter attack by playing a effective long pass into a dangerous area, or even hold onto possession, in order to allow teammates into a direct attack. The Libero could use adequate dribbling ability to good effect, in order to break down the opposition midfield, and subsequently disfigure the overall structure of the opposition.
This is what Sammer is all about and the ability to find Zico, Nedved or Kalle on counter would be deadly for the opposition.

From the very beginning he started to show his attacking prowess and was a crucial member of the Dresden team that won the league and domestic cup double in 1990. The very next season he decided do make a lucrative move to VfB Stuttgart. Allegations were that he sold his loyalty for a higher payday, but nonetheless he was very successful at Stuttgart. Sammer was developing into a tough but scoring midfielder and was becoming more and more central to things at Stuttgart. The next season Sammer was the undoubted leader of the team, and he led VfB to the league title, making them the first German club to win the league in a reunified Germany.

Sammer’s star was on the rise and his rising reputation earned him a move to Inter Milan. He was more a squad player in Italy and despite performing well when used, Sammer decided it was time to return to the ‘Fatherland’, and when Borussia Dortmund came calling in the winter break he gladly jumped at the chance. He was back to the thick of things at Borussia and Ottmar Hitzfeld deployed him as central midfielder for the remainder of the season. He scored 10 times and was crucial to the club. But the best was yet to come.

The next season was the defining season in his career. Ottmar Hitzfeld preferred a 3-5-2 formation, and it involved playing three center halves flanked by wing backs. Hitzfeld was a genius when it came to tactics, and he made the decision that redefined the life of Matthias Sammer. He started using Sammer as a libero. In footballing terms a libero, is the free man who plays as a sweeper behind the center backs. He has the license to go forward and the responsibility to act as the last wall of defense.

Nicknamed the ‘Red Baron’, Sammer was as competitive as they come. He was constantly getting stuck into his opponents. He was foul mouthed, argumentative and possessed a short temper. He started settling into the libero role and the very next season the results started to show. Borussia won the 1994 Bundesliga and Sammer was the undoubted star of the team.

The same story was repeated the next season. Sammer was now acknowledged as the successor to the great Franz Beckenbauer. Like ‘The Kaiser’, Sammer too was accomplished in very facet of the game. He was built like Beckenbauer too. He had a slight frame and swift feet. He was a brilliant tackler, made plenty of interceptions each game, scored crucial goals, stopped oncoming forwards and set his own team in motion. He was quick with the ball on his feet and had bags of stamina. Not only all this, he was a leader on the field too. He inspired his team with his game and always had an eye out for any oncoming danger. In 1995, 1996 and 1997 he was named as German footballer of the year.

In the 1997 UEFA Champions League, Borussia Dortmund were the underdogs. Yet the world watched in amazement at the way they swept away one opponent after another. Other teams, even teams who played the 3-5-2 were not accustomed to playing against a libero, and after beating Manchester United, Dortmund set a date for the finals with Juventus. Sammer was outstanding that night. Having seen the DVD of the match, I can claim that I have never seen a player perform better in a major final. He did not score any goals or set up others to score but was omnipresent when his team attacked. While going back he made tackles, used his physicality and kept breaking up Juventus’ game. He made crucial interceptions and launched perfect passes out onto the wings. The world remembers the heroics of Lars Ricken, Paul Lambert and Riedle, but Sammer for me was the hero of the night.

The zenith of his career though came in 1996 Euros. He was deployed as a libero by national coach Berti Vogts. Vogts had played alongside Beckenbauer and knew first-hand how a libero could influence a team. There were calls to use Lothar Matthaus instead of Sammer, but Sammer’s performances silenced his critics. He was always present to compliment his defense, but was on hand to score too. He was brilliant with the ball at his feet and often made adventurous runs across the field. It was one of these late surges that he scored the winner against Russia in their second match in the group stage.

However it was in the quarterfinals that Sammer showed what he really was capable of. He spent the early part of the match fending off Croatian attacks and was unable to get out of his own half. But suddenly he got hold of the ball and made one of his trademark runs which earned his team a penalty. Klinsmann converted it but Crotia soon equalized. It was only fair that the sweeper who had imposed himself on the game wins it too. Sammer made a Lampard-esque run and converted a Markus Babbel cross with an excellent header to win the match. In the final though he showed he was human, as he unnecessarily brought down Pobrosky of the Czech Republic and conceded a penalty. He was saved the blushes when Oliver Bierhoff’s brace carried them to the cup. It was the only black mark for Sammer in a tournament he was the star of. He was given the ‘Player of the Tournament’ award and he became the only defender after Beckenbauer to get the Ballon D’ Or.

Tragedy though had to strike and in the 1998 season a routine knee operation went wrong and caused Sammer to end his career. In 1999 Sammer retired and at the young age of 32 the game was devoid of a talent that comes across very rarely.

For me the abiding image of Sammer’s career has to be the image which gave him the name ‘Iron Matthias’. Playing against Borussia Mongdengladbach, Sammer suffered a cut above his eye. He asked the medical staff to staple it and continued to play the game without painkillers. This really defined the man. He was one of the players for whom playing was the most important thing. He was brave, competitive, skilled and intelligent. He is the most complete footballer I have seen play. Although most of today’s fans would not remember him, but true aficionados would wish that they could see another man who could play like Sammer.
 

P-Nut

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Matthews and Alberto against Gentile, Zebec and I'm guessing Davids should be an interesting match up this game.
 

Enigma_87

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Matthews and Alberto against Gentile, Zebec and I'm guessing Davids should be an interesting match up this game.
Think Kalle vs Zebec really works in our favor. Zebec is far from balanced LB or defensive wall at that position and Kalle with his movement and directness would be real nightmare to contain when attacking from that side.

Zebec when played on the left was always more of a left midfielder/left winger or a wing back. In a flat 4 I don't think that role particularly suits him.
 

harms

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Strange, I feel the complete opposite and think he's made some clear upgrades.

It's Enigma's that have surprised me. Not a fan of Sammer in a back four, prefer him in his peak libero role if playing in defence or failing that as a midfielder.

In a back four I don't think Sammer is a better defender than Santamaria so didn't expect that move at all.
Having both Spencer and Bergkamp up front would've highlighted Sammer's questionable role, with Rivellino and 2 orthodox wingers here he's more in his element
 

Enigma_87

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Having both Spencer and Bergkamp up front would've highlighted Sammer's questionable role, with Rivellino and 2 orthodox wingers here he's more in his element
Aye, a two striker's (or SS, ST) combo would probably require a different approach to Sammer's role, but here he's really at home and hopefully voters would see it that way and the difference between it. :)
 

idmanager

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Gento vs Djalma Santos in the 1962 WC.

Highlights:


Extended Highlights:


Credits to @harms from whose old game I picked them up.
 

idmanager

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Frankly I'm not sure that @idmanager's team got better, in fact I probably prefer his semi-final set up with Bergkamp
Why Bergkamp was dropped is because of the way I read Enigma's midfield.

It has 2 highly defensive players and one super attacking one. Sure, Edwards was a bit more than a pure DM, but then that is about it.

I think its a setup where the midfield is clearly segregated with certain players impacting the attacking phase of the game while certain players impacting the defensive phase of the game.

Which is completely fine as we see with many real life setups.

But I think it is a setup that would find it tough against a midfield 3 where all three work in sync contributing to both attacking and defensive phases of the game.

No matter on or off the ball, we would have more midfield players involved in the game.

Its also the reason Monti was dropped and Ocwirk was bought in.

Monti is clearly more well defined and Ocwirk the less known, but I went with the tactic rather than the personnel. Which is why I hardly put anything in the OP except the midfield battle and the Ocwirk role.

It just gives me the perfect balance.
 

idmanager

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Strange, I feel the complete opposite and think he's made some clear upgrades.
Its important to note that the upgrades are also tactical.

The last game, we were reactive. Waiting to win the ball back and happy without the ball.

This game we are completely different.

With three excellent players in the middle on and off the ball, we want to attack and attack hard.
 

idmanager

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More thoughts on why the all out attack tactic

Lets count the attack minded players on both side:

Enigma:
1. The front 4
2. Sammer (in a back 4 its very tough to even count him as a full attacker)

I don't count Marzolini in there as he was defensive minded as far as I know. A couple of rare quotes won't change my mind.

Idmanager:
1. The front 4
2. The midfield 3
3. The 2 full backs.
4. Tresor to impact from deep as Sammer is expected to as well.

The number of outlets are way too many in my team as compared to Enigma's.
Even if he wins the ball against one of my attacks, his team has only the front 4 realistically to hit back which is easier to manage.
 

idmanager

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I know that many have questioned Sammer in a back four, but this setup isn't really a conventional 4-2-3-1 with 2 attacking full backs. Plus with Edwards and Varela he has the freedom to bomb forward and has the perfect stage to do so.
Firstly, a cautious Sammer all the time in a back 4 is not a BAllon Dor Sammer.
Anyone who has watched him play would agree with that IMO.

I don't see him having anymore impact than Tresor bringing the ball out.

Expecting the 2 defensive pivots to cover for him during the surges forward is a structure that is bound to break due to the toughness in organizing it and covering the gaps in general.

Also, it leaves the midfield quite uncertain on counters against an attacking team like mine if the DM pivots are constantly shuffling.

I am also not a fan of the Shesterenyov-Sammer combination. Both were sweepers as far I know.

The presence of a block it all stopper is clearly lacking IMO.
 

idmanager

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On the other end we feel we have a great advantage in Zico targeting Ocwirk who was more of a deep lying playmaker than a destroyer or DM
I think Enigma and I have quite clear difference in out understanding of dealing with a number 10 and Ocwirk in general (reducing whom to a DLP is ridiculous).

I am of the belief that a dedicated DM against a number 10 is not always required.

Especially, when among the midfield 3, there is only one constantly impacting the attacking phase, while I have 3 players contributing to the defensive phase.

We are going to back team work over individuality here. I'll leave that to the voters to decide if a dedicated DM is needed in every time. We have all watched enough football to make that call on our own.
 

Enigma_87

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Firstly, a cautious Sammer all the time in a back 4 is not a BAllon Dor Sammer.
Anyone who has watched him play would agree with that IMO.

I don't see him having anymore impact than Tresor bringing the ball out.

Expecting the 2 defensive pivots to cover for him during the surges forward is a structure that is bound to break due to the toughness in organizing it and covering the gaps in general.

Also, it leaves the midfield quite uncertain on counters against an attacking team like mine if the DM pivots are constantly shuffling.

I am also not a fan of the Shesterenyov-Sammer combination. Both were sweepers as far I know.

The presence of a block it all stopper is clearly lacking IMO.
It’s not a classic front four mate and also Varela is the one covering for Sammer. Please refer to the explanation above of how the mechanics work for our team.
 

idmanager

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@Enigma_87 , Good luck to you too mate.
@Edgar Allan Pillow , thanks for setting it up as always.

I have to run and board a flight now.
I am sorry, I might have missed responding to a few comments as there was only so fast I could type in the time I had.
I will join back tomorrow.
 

Enigma_87

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I think Enigma and I have quite clear difference in out understanding of dealing with a number 10 and Ocwirk in general (reducing whom to a DLP is ridiculous).

I am of the belief that a dedicated DM against a number 10 is not always required.

Especially, when among the midfield 3, there is only one constantly impacting the attacking phase, while I have 3 players contributing to the defensive phase.

We are going to back team work over individuality here. I'll leave that to the voters to decide if a dedicated DM is needed in every time. We have all watched enough football to make that call on our own.
Can you show me an example of historically not man marking a great #10? All of the past greats - Pele, Maradona, Zico himself had a man who was on him all the time. Having no particular man on him and only covering the zone is a recipe for disaster for me.

Also Ocwirk with all his quality is far from the type of player you’d want in that zone.
 

idmanager

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I would recommend and request everyone to read the piece I have joined together on Ocwirk in the OP.

Took around 5+ articles to translate and combine to put it up.

It would also help you understand my team tactic and why the importance I have placed on the midfield battle.

Do take some time out before you guys vote. Cheers :)
 

idmanager

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Can you show me an example of historically not man marking a great #10? All of the past greats - Pele, Maradona, Zico himself had a man who was on him all the time. Having no particular man on him and only covering the zone is a recipe for disaster for me.
WC final 2014.
Germany against Argentina.
Messi's Argentina losing to team work rather than a highly rated DM.

 

Enigma_87

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@Enigma_87 , Good luck to you too mate.
@Edgar Allan Pillow , thanks for setting it up as always.

I have to run and board a flight now.
I am sorry, I might have missed responding to a few comments as there was only so fast I could type in the time I had.
I will join back tomorrow.
Good luck to you too mate. I’ll be on and off as well so really trying to capture all the focal points tonight. Hopefully some neutrals would also join in the discussion.

Have a safe flight !
 

idmanager

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Also Ocwirk with all his quality is far from the type of player you’d want in that zone.
You called him a DLP rather than a DM mate where as he was quite literally a hybrid of both and the defensive sheild of the Austrian 1954 team. (read OP)

With the greatest of respect, I wouldn't really call you an expert on Ocwirk just based on that mate. Cheers. Bye now.
 

Šjor Bepo

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@idmanager im on your side regarding the debate, dont think you must have a specific man against number 10 but feck you couldnt have picked a worse example.....Schweini that game produced one of the greatest DM performances of all time.