[Bojan11]

The thing is,

Sometimes you see shocking performances that make you fume. This isn't one of them, Spurs are just better than us. Why are they better than us. They've signed no one but they've got a coach whose got graft and guile and can get the absolute best out of his players. We've got a manager whose with a few exceptions made our players worse. That's the problem.

Agree.

But don’t tell @Bastian that or he’d tell me the corner stats.

 

[Bastian]

Agree.

But don’t tell @Bastian that or he’d tell me the corner stats.

This is what I meant by all night.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Jose said it in the post match press conference, responding directly to a journo but I think fans as well.

Make a decision. If we play boring and win, it's not good enough. If we play well and lose, it's not good enough. So come on caf, make a decision, what's it going to be, because right now all you lot do is complain about everything.

Why does it have to be one or the other?

At no point is losing 3-0 at home to us acceptable, regardless of how 'well' you played. How do you expect people to react to a heavy defeat at home to a rival for top four?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

It's important to remember: 37pts from the next 35 matches.
Doable me thinks.

ok this made me laugh. Thank you.

 

[WR10]

Apart from the obvious narrative that we should have buried the game in the first half, I was very impressed by Poch’s tactical sharpness. He was clearly shocked by our set up in the first half but stayed calm and found our holes and drilled them home at half time.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Jose said it in the post match press conference, responding directly to a journo but I think fans as well.

Make a decision. If we play boring and win, it's not good enough. If we play well and lose, it's not good enough. So come on caf, make a decision, what's it going to be, because right now all you lot do is complain about everything.

Replace Mourinho with someone who can do both.

 

[sglowrider]

ok this made me laugh. Thank you.

 

[bosnian_red]

Jose said it in the post match press conference, responding directly to a journo but I think fans as well.

Make a decision. If we play boring and win, it's not good enough. If we play well and lose, it's not good enough. So come on caf, make a decision, what's it going to be, because right now all you lot do is complain about everything.

City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs seem to be both playing better than us and winning. You'd think that's not asking for too much.

 

[99withaflake]

Replace Mourinho with someone who can do both.

Who?

Who would get us playing attacking football and tighten us up at the back as well with our current squad?

Interested to hear your suggestions.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Who?

Who would get us playing attacking football and tighten us up at the back as well with our current squad?

Interested to hear your suggestions.

Zidane.

He'll be allowed to sign players like Mourinho was. This myth that Mourinho is the best manager for us merely due to past success is false. He's presently being out performed by managers who have won less in the past.

 

[99withaflake]

City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs seem to be both playing better than us and winning. You'd think that's not asking for too much.

All 4 of those clubs have better centre backs than we do.

 

[99withaflake]

Zidane.

He'll be allowed to sign players like Mourinho was. This myth that Mourinho is the best manager for us merely due to past success is false. He's presently being out performed by managers who have won less in the past.

Mourinho wasn't allowed to sign the players that he wanted. Did you see the transfer window this summer?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Mourinho wasn't allowed to sign the players that he wanted. Did you see the transfer window this summer?

He's nearly signed a full 11 in his time here.

 

[Tony247]

One experienced CB and backup experienced CF needed. Got none. This season going to be painful.

 

[bosnian_red]

All 4 of those clubs have better centre backs than we do.

That, or maybe those 4 clubs have more modern managers who can organize their team to defend better as a team and cover up deficiencies through other tactics. Liverpool have Lovren as a starter. Chelsea use David Luiz as a starter. Saying our center backs aren't good enough is a bullshit excuse. They were fine a year ago. Bailly until a few months ago was talked about as potentially one of the best in the league if he could stay fit. Smalling is always solid defensively but just lacks on the ball. It's a load of shite. The reason we can't play well and win is because Mourinho simply doesn't know and never has known how to play entertaining football consistently. Everywhere he's been, even Real madrid, he would go defensive in big games. And now his tactics are completely outdated.

 

[99withaflake]

He's nearly signed a full 11 in his time here.

Pogba and Sanchez were signings made by the club, not requested by the manager.

The club has not sold the dead wood.

The club didn't strengthen in key areas this summer, as requested.

Of course a couple of his signings haven't worked out (Bailly, Lindelof) but he hasn't signed a full 11 and hasn't been fully backed going into the crunch year.

You know that.

He should still be getting more out of the team though.

 

[99withaflake]

Zidane.

He'll be allowed to sign players like Mourinho was. This myth that Mourinho is the best manager for us merely due to past success is false. He's presently being out performed by managers who have won less in the past.

Zidane finished 3rd in La Liga with an unbelievable squad, conceding twice as many goals as Athletico, and finishing with a goal different 20 goals worse than Barcelona. Real Madrid conceded more goals than anyone else in the top 4 and that was without players of the standard of Smalling, Jones, Lindelof and Bailly.

 

[ash_86]

That, or maybe those 4 clubs have more modern managers who can organize their team to defend better as a team and cover up deficiencies through other tactics. Liverpool have Lovren as a starter. Chelsea use David Luiz as a starter. Saying our center backs aren't good enough is a bullshit excuse. They were fine a year ago. Bailly until a few months ago was talked about as potentially one of the best in the league if he could stay fit. Smalling is always solid defensively but just lacks on the ball. It's a load of shite. The reason we can't play well and win is because Mourinho simply doesn't know and never has known how to play entertaining football consistently. Everywhere he's been, even Real madrid, he would go defensive in big games. And now his tactics are completely outdated.

We let in most shots of the top 6 last year and were saved by DDG being in god mode. Not fine.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Pogba and Sanchez were signings made by the club, not requested by the manager.

The club has not sold the dead wood.

The club didn't strengthen in key areas this summer, as requested.

Of course a couple of his signings haven't worked out (Bailly, Lindelof) but he hasn't signed a full 11 and hasn't been fully backed going into the crunch year.

You know that.

He should still be getting more out of the team though.

I'll tell you know what I know. That he's signed Mkhitarian (swapped), Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Fred, Lindelof, Dalot, Pogba, Bailly and Ibra (transferred) for an absolute fortune and the team is still playing poorly as a team. That's not good enough and we need someone new to do a better job.

So tell me your basis for considering Sanchez and Pogba as board signings and not Mourinho signings? Is it because they're so disappointing under his managment?

Edit - missed out Pogba

 

[99withaflake]

That, or maybe those 4 clubs have more modern managers who can organize their team to defend better as a team and cover up deficiencies through other tactics. Liverpool have Lovren as a starter. Chelsea use David Luiz as a starter. Saying our center backs aren't good enough is a bullshit excuse. They were fine a year ago. Bailly until a few months ago was talked about as potentially one of the best in the league if he could stay fit. Smalling is always solid defensively but just lacks on the ball. It's a load of shite. The reason we can't play well and win is because Mourinho simply doesn't know and never has known how to play entertaining football consistently. Everywhere he's been, even Real madrid, he would go defensive in big games. And now his tactics are completely outdated.

No, it is not a bullshit excuse. Our group of centre backs are not as good. Could they be performing better? Yes. Could they be coached differently? Probably. But they're not as good. It really is that simple. Sometimes it's best just to be honest. If you rate Smalling, we're probably not going to get anywhere with this conversation. He should be a squad back up player at absolute best. Thanks.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Zidane finished 3rd in La Liga with an unbelievable squad, conceding twice as many goals as Athletico, and finishing with a goal different 20 goals worse than Barcelona. Real Madrid conceded more goals than anyone else in the top 4 and that was without players of the standard of Smalling, Jones, Lindelof and Bailly.

He also won the league and 3 CLs. I mean it's a small detail but probably worth considering. If you want to pick an individual league campaign to judge a manager on, how about we do 15/16 for Mourinho?

 

[bosnian_red]

We let in most shots of the top 6 last year and were saved by DDG being in god mode. Not fine.

Also had the most clean sheets in the league. I'm not saying it was amazing, but it wasnt awful. It's not down to centerback quality, it's such a cop out. All of them have showed stretches of good form, all have put in good performances. Lindelof looks an amateur here but was quality at the world cup. Smalling was consistent and very good last season. Bailly when fit did really well til the last few months. Jones did well when fit most of the time, bar the odd feck up.

Our problems always are down to collective failures. We struggle to create meaningful or even half chances, struggle to get a passing rhythm going, struggle to control games against even shite teams, and then struggle to keep teams out. Theres not a single thing that our coaching is doing right. It all looks shambolic. A good coach gets his reputation for getting the best out of what he has. Not spending 200m a year to rebuild and rebuild when all your signings flop. Bailly, lindelof, pogba and Lukaku were bought by Mourinho for £220-250m combined. Many on here would be perfectly happy to get rid of all 4 with how theyve been. Though I'm reluctant to blame it all on the players, as for me, the coaching is just absolutely shambolic and it looks like they have no clue what to do most of the time.

 

[99withaflake]

He also won the league and 3 CLs. I mean it's a small detail but probably worth considering. If you want to pick an individual league campaign to judge a manager on, how about we do 15/16 for Mourinho?

If Zidane comes in and has to keep Smalling, Jones, Lindelof and Bailly, he will not win the title. He will not even challenge for it. Would you like to place a bet on this if he does become manager? Paypal?

 

[Scroto Baggins]

I dont buy the 'we played Spurs off the park' narrative, we definitely had the run of play with 57% possession, but I felt Moura was a clear penalty, nowhere near the ball by jones. Alli could have easily thrown himself to the floor and asked the ref to make a tough decision. Kane missed an easy chance probably assuming(wrongly) that Lindelof(?) was clearing the ball.

There were positives as well, despite the post match melters. That first half was the best half of football this season, Lukaku with a bad miss once he rounded Lloris. Shaw was great, Fred was ok, he will need time to settle in but did well for someone so new I felt. Matic was what, 70% fit? But managed 60mins, will be good to have him back 100% and firing.

 

[bosnian_red]

No, it is not a bullshit excuse. Our group of centre backs are not as good. Could they be performing better? Yes. Could they be coached differently? Probably. But they're not as good. It really is that simple. Sometimes it's best just to be honest. If you rate Smalling, we're probably not going to get anywhere with this conversation. He should be a squad back up player at absolute best. Thanks.

Yeah it's not the best, but should be doing FAR better with better coaching. Saying we cant play good football and get results because of our centerbacks is bullshit. Maybe against the very best teams, but feck, here we are 3 games in and we were shit but grinded out a win at home against fecking Leicester, got outplayed by Brighton and lost and now got hammered by Spurs at Old Trafford. We dont need world class centerbacks to outplay Brighton or Leicester. Load of shite. Pep can put midfielders in defence and would do far better then the shite weve seen.

 

[99withaflake]

I'll tell you know what I know. That he's signed Mkhitarian (swapped), Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Fred, Lindelof, Dalot, Bailly and Ibra (transferred) for an absolute fortune and the team is still playing poorly as a team. That's not good enough and we need someone new to do a better job.

So tell me your basis for considering Sanchez and Pogba as board signings and not Mourinho signings? Is it because they're so disappointing under his managment?

Sanchez became available and the club pounced. Jose did not request this transfer.

The Pogba deal was in place before Jose joined the club.

Both of these deals have huge commercial value for obvious reasons.

Mkhitarian , Lindelof and Bailly have not done well under Jose.

Dalot or Fred have only just joined.

Ibra did well.

Lukaku and Matic did well last season too.

 

[reelworld]

I get why Mourinho needed to sign a centerback.
What I don't get is why there's no attempt to sell the ones already at the club since they are clearly not good enough? Rojo was decent last season, and Mourinho choose to extend his contract, which showed that he wanted him here. Why did Jones and Smalling played ahead of him?

Defence is not all about talent. Most of it is about organization and coaching. Right now United's have neither. There's a serious lack of identity of playing around this United team. Personally, I think Jose is trying to shift his tactics into a more attacking one, but haven't find the right players combination and balance yet.

Remember Fergie tried to do similar thing after 2000? His ultra offensive side got demolished by Madrid, and he tried to shift to a more balanced side with adding Veron and pushed Scholes upfront. He got right 7 years later. The difference is that Fergie still got the league title coming and he got loads of success previously to keep the job.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If Zidane comes in and has to keep Smalling, Jones, Lindelof and Bailly, he will not win the title. He will not even challenge for it. Would you like to place a bet on this if he does become manager? Paypal?

Nope. No manager guarantees success - not Mourinho, not Pep, not Zidane. But he will get the opportunity to improve the squad as Mourinho did and given our current manager is struggling/failing - it's time for a change.

 

[99withaflake]

Yeah it's not the best, but should be doing FAR better with better coaching. Saying we cant play good football and get results because of our centerbacks is bullshit. Maybe against the very best teams, but feck, here we are 3 games in and we were shit but grinded out a win at home against fecking Leicester, got outplayed by Brighton and lost and now got hammered by Spurs at Old Trafford. We dont need world class centerbacks to outplay Brighton or Leicester. Load of shite. Pep can put midfielders in defence and would do far better then the shite weve seen.

I agree that we were very average against Leicester, awful against Brighton, and fairly good at times against Spurs. It took us a couple of games to get going this year, and once we did, our defence fell apart again against a decent team. We're so poor in that area and the high pressing meant that they weren't exposed too often in the first 30 minutes. As soon as they were, we were screwed. I'm more annoyed about our first two games than this game to be honest, but yeah, it's not good and we need to string 4 or 5 wins together fast which will be difficult.

 

[TheeAma]

I don't get you guys. You cry for Attacking football and you got that in the first half. You bossed them and created chance after chance after chance. and your defense allow Spurs to score 3 goals but overall this is not a bad performance and how can you blame the manager for individual errors

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sanchez became available and the club pounced. Jose did not request this transfer.

The Pogba deal was in place before Jose joined the club.

Both of these deals have huge commercial value for obvious reasons.

Mkhitarian , Lindelof and Bailly have not done well under Jose.

Dalot or Fred have only just joined.

Ibra did well.

Lukaku and Matic did well last season too.

Basically you don't have a clue and are just making stuff up to suit Mourinho.

Rashford and Martial have also been poor under him. Basically his coaching/improvement of his players lags far behind that of Pep and Klopp. That's why we need a change. It's not working

 

[ash_86]

Also had the most clean sheets in the league. I'm not saying it was amazing, but it wasnt awful. It's not down to centerback quality, it's such a cop out. All of them have showed stretches of good form, all have put in good performances. Lindelof looks an amateur here but was quality at the world cup. Smalling was consistent and very good last season. Bailly when fit did really well til the last few months. Jones did well when fit most of the time, bar the odd feck up.

Our problems always are down to collective failures. We struggle to create meaningful or even half chances, struggle to get a passing rhythm going, struggle to control games against even shite teams, and then struggle to keep teams out. Theres not a single thing that our coaching is doing right. It all looks shambolic. A good coach gets his reputation for getting the best out of what he has. Not spending 200m a year to rebuild and rebuild when all your signings flop. Bailly, lindelof, pogba and Lukaku were bought by Mourinho for £220-250m combined. Many on here would be perfectly happy to get rid of all 4 with how theyve been. Though I'm reluctant to blame it all on the players, as for me, the coaching is just absolutely shambolic and it looks like they have no clue what to do most of the time.

We would not have conceded as man shots on goals last season if defense was any good. Still we ended up with most clean sheet shows the form David Gea was in. Smalling ,Jones , Lindelof wont get into any of the top 4 teams. Bailly has potential but very inconsistent. We severely lack a leader and needed one in this market. Good leaders make average defenders good. See how Lovern is much better next to VVD. We don't have that leader so the defense is heedless.

I will agree with you on our attack have struggled to create chances in previous matches but that wasn't the case today. When i re watched the highlights, my eyes was bleeding every time i saw us miss some of the easiest chances. The player let Jose down big time and i feel for him. He may be eventually sacked but when the same pattern arises with the next manager we'd know that the problem is more than the manager.

 

[99withaflake]

Nope. No manager guarantees success - not Mourinho, not Pep, not Zidane. But he will get the opportunity to improve the squad as Mourinho did and given our current manager is struggling/failing - it's time for a change.

That's it though. Jose was given 3 seasons to challenge for the league, and essentially complete his squad, but Ed did not back him this summer. He backed him for 2 years, not 3 years. Yes, he could have done a better job with some of his signings, and we should be playing better football, but he should have been given the opportunity to challenge for the league with the players that he wanted that were within the club's budget. He wasn't. If Ed doesn't trust his football judgement, he should have sacked Jose months ago.

Maybe we will have to agree to disagree. I can understand both sides of the debate - both sides have merit.

 

[bosnian_red]

I don't get you guys. You cry for Attacking football and you got that in the first half. You bossed them and created chance after chance after chance. and your defense allow Spurs to score 3 goals but overall this is not a bad performance and how can you blame the manager for individual errors

2nd half was a mess tbf and the attempt to get back into the game was pitiful. It all looks so unorganized and lacking structure, lacking composure, and just looks poorly coached. First half was good, yes, and much better then the previous 2 games and most of 2018 in general. Was it great football? Absolutely not. It was a high energy performance with intent, but a lot of it was hitting long balls and then pressing really highly and a frantic start to try and unsettle them. Worked for 30 minutes, Spurs calmed the game down and took control eventually.

If we could somehow press highly and play on the front foot every game, we as fans would be much happier. Even if it's not fantastic football, that alone would be far better than right now. Many didn't turn on him because of today. We've turned on Mourinho since about February or March. For most it was probably the Sevilla mess, and showing absolutely nothing to fix that. So yeah, sorry if a decent 30 minutes at home against a team that routinely rolls over for us (and then proceeding to lose 3-0 in a shambolic 2nd half) doesn't erase how shite we've been all year.

 

[Asger]

He's nearly signed a full 11 in his time here.

I don't believe Sanchez and Pogba were his signings.

Also what has Zidane bought? Had world class players in almost every position at Real.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That's it though. Jose was given 3 seasons to challenge for the league, and essentially complete his squad, but Ed did not back him this summer. He backed him for 2 years, not 3 years. Yes, he could have done a better job with some of his signings, and we should be playing better football, but he should have been given the opportunity to challenge for the league with the players that he wanted that were within the club's budget. He wasn't. If Ed doesn't trust his football judgement, he should have sacked Jose months ago.

Maybe we will have to agree to disagree. I can understand both sides of the debate - both sides have merit.

Personally, I think Mourinho and his cautious ideas on football are a bad fit for the club. It doesn't bring out the best out of flair/attacking players and despite all that spending (and a few players missed out on) we still don't play cohesive and fluid football. That he needs even more to do so shows his failings. The results have, at time, been decent but I don't see his work taking us to the pinnacle. So I think it's definitely time to move on. And yeah, we're very far apart and have no issues with someone backing Mourinho. Agree to disagree on this.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't believe Sanchez and Pogba were his signings.

Also what has Zidane bought? Had world class players in almost every position at Real.

Again, what's your basis?

Zidane has brought the best out of his team which is precisely what we need. He has question marks of course but which manager doesnt?

 

[VJ1762]

Man, this defeat has ruined my whole week. I am switching between r/reddevils and redcafe and just reading stuff. I have work to do and I just can't keep replaying all 3 spurs goals and the horrific mistakes that our defence made. Any suggestions on what you guys do after a match when united lose?

 

[endless_wheelies]

Man, this defeat has ruined my whole week. I am switching between r/reddevils and redcafe and just reading stuff. I have work to do and I just can't keep replaying all 3 spurs goals and the horrific mistakes that our defence made. Any suggestions on what you guys do after a match when united lose?

redtube is usually more upbeat

 

[Kyriacandro]

Apart from the obvious narrative that we should have buried the game in the first half, I was very impressed by Poch’s tactical sharpness. He was clearly shocked by our set up in the first half but stayed calm and found our holes and drilled them home at half time.

i don't think lukaku is good enough to lead the line. Look at all the other teams aguero takes that chance, kane takes that chance, firmino takes that. In my opinion rashford takes that chance and then it's a completely different ball game