Smalling has learned how to use grab and block effectively without drawing fouls. He is smart in doing at places where it won’t affect team. Penalty incidents are countable in all these years which is a credit to him. Well done yesterday. Best of the lot we have.
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 34
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
- Status
It is quite funny. He did have a pretty decent long range pass that season. However, he also had about 15 minutes to make that pass because our opposition had gone to sleep after the first 30 minutes of us recycling the ball in our own half.
Overall though, a very good game from him yesterday. He looks awkward, but his passing was fine and he did very well. Surprisingly, he struggled a little in the box as he didn't find his position a couple of time - should have had a clear free kick from a shove in the back for one of the lost headers, but obviously, the Great Moss looked at the birds in the sky for that one.
Yeah I'm not sure if its in this thread or maybe the Bailly one, but about a month ago I was talking about how Smalling has shown the ability to make good passes during his United career.
The issue is not that "he cant pass" as a bunch of posters say to perpetuate the myth. The issue is that he doesnt often try these lower percentage passes, he usually just makes sure he finds an accurate pass. It seems more of a confidence and priorities issue.
He wants to keep the ball and find better ball players than himself, unlike Maguire for example who tries to start moves himself from the back but as such actually has a low passing percentage for someone considered a good defender.
Someone who "cant pass" would have low pass completion. Smalling is joint 2nd behind Andreas Pereira's 91.4%
Never really understood the Smalling Hate because if you look at his stats he's always up there. If we rated all our Cbs on the following criteria, Smalling would be the highest overall!
Currently he is better than J Boatang who we nearly signed and who has lost his pace! Only VVD, Toby Auderweireld, Jan Vertongen, Vincent Kompany, Harry Maguire(just), John Stones (just) and none of the Chelsea or Arsenal defenders are better than Smalling in the PL!
- Pace 8/10
- Aerial Ability 9/10
- Reading of the Game 8/10
- Physicality 8/10
- One on One Duels 8/10
- Passing 6/10
- Football Intelligence 8/10
- Leadership and Experience 8/10
- Goal threat 7/10
- Injury Record 8/10
Currently he is better than J Boatang who we nearly signed and who has lost his pace! Only VVD, Toby Auderweireld, Jan Vertongen, Vincent Kompany, Harry Maguire(just), John Stones (just) and none of the Chelsea or Arsenal defenders are better than Smalling in the PL!
Harry Maguire and John Stones are not better. Stones has been poor at CB and cannot defend half as well as smalling, and Harry Maguire is just flavour of the month.
Its hard to misplace passes when he is choosing the path of least resistance and taking 2 additional touches to make sure he completes it.
Smalling has always had a good passing percentage. He just looks awkward and isn't very adventurous.
Stones and Maguire are both better on the ball, that's pretty clear.
Smalling is as good as Maguire in the air, and he's quicker on the floor. He and Maguire would make a great CB pair TBH.
But not at defending...
Yep I agree, Smalling is our best CB.
Probably one of the most pointless stats, especially for a defender. If they just pass back to a goalie or across the line to another defender within 5 yards of them (which invariably Smalling does), of course he's going to have amazing stas in that area.
Perhaps, but it also shows that he rarely gives the ball away, as some suggest. He plays it safe, which is OK if the other players can relieve him of that task. Last year, Valencia was terrible at just hoofing the ball up, which was very uncharacteristic of him. Yesterday, he looked much more composed.
If the defender is playing it safe by passing it back to the goalie to kick it out, we're just substituting one bad pass percentage (that of the CB) for another (that of the goalie). The team still turns over possession very frequently and very easily, if the goalie has to hoof it up the pitch because the defence/midfield can't find a pass. Therefore it's still a problem.
That said, I personally don't have a big problem with Smalling's passing. It goes without saying that he's not the most confortable with ball at feet and he's a bit risk-averse but he more then covers that by being the best all around defender. It shouldn't really be a problem if the DM/DLP drops in to pick up the ball from him. Many teams play that way (the CBs "delegating" passing responsibility to CMs) without a problem. The fact he looks awkward doesn't upset me in the least and I don't see why other posters get so irate about it.
I mean yeah, I wish he was as comfotable with the ball as someone like Vertonghen but he isn't so we gotta make peace with that. We gotta accept that so long as we don't have any better defenders than him, he should be a mainstay in the defence. Because he's the only one who can keep it together when we're being sieged and the least prone to howlers by far.
Last edited:
You say that but plenty of DMs are poor passers despite doing that "water carrying" sideways passing.
An example is Stephen N'Zonzi.
At Blackburn he had a season with 66% pass completion, and another with 68% pass completion. He wasnt creating, had no assists and 0.3-0.5 key passes per game depending on the season. He was just playing a very simple passing game and still couldn't find a teammate.
Since moving to Spain (and now Italy) he's greatly improved his passing. But he's an example of a player who didn't try much but had poor pass completion.
I'm not that bothered about Smalling. I just find it baffling how stats are quoted to make him seem better than he actually is. Aren't there any meaningful stats like number of forward passes, number of completed passes over 15 yards etc.
The number of safe passes is the reason that he rarely gives the ball away but when pressed by opposition, he doesn't look so good. As also mentioned before, clean sheets etc. are more down to De Gea than our defence, which is why Mourinho was keen to address the issue this summer.
Yeah its possible to be worse.
A simple instance of being confident in short passing is when pressed, Lindelöf can play some nice 1-2s to get out of that situation. Smalling on the other hand has to go back to the keeper every single time the first pass is cut out. He sure does have his strengths in defending but when we complain about slow build up it starts with the short comings of players like him. Southgate didn't even want him around, Jose is trying his hardest to find an alternative now for a good reason.
He's the best centre back at the club.
He doesn't have much competition tbh. The rest are perpetually injured and can't string a run of games together to find some form.
Rvp bangs this in first time.
That's just silly. As much as i love Smalling (you can check my posts), but I wouldn't think twice of saying Stones is a better player.
Stones is absolutely terrible defender which is proved again and again. I can understand people not rating Smalling, but Stones is absolutely terrible defender. He probably made more direct goal mistakes just last season than Smalling did in his entire career.
I'd disagree. I think Stones is Rio in the making. He still has some lapses of concentration, but the upward worths more. Just like Varane.
He is not even close to Varane, you cannot even compare those two. Stones literally proved nothing in his career so far at highest level.
Stuff like that is all the evidence you need of the lunacy of people talking about any PL footballer being “Sunday league standard” or saying “I could pass the ball better than him” etc etc. Even the least skilful player in the whole PL is a damn accomplished footballer and capable of playing a pass like that (not saying Smalling is the least skilful footballer in the league, obviously!)
Moments like that don’t disprove, however, the observation that Smalling’s quality/consistency of passing and general composure on the ball is frequently a big problem for us. It’s possible it’s all a confidence thing and he just needs another long run of games. Or a really assured and competent partner, to lower the general levels of anxiety. Feck knows. But even a delicious pass like that tells us nothing we didn’t know already.
Stones has only proven himself a pretty poor defender.
Smalling is definitely better than Stones when it comes to actual defending. Smalling is one of the best defenders in the league when it's about pure defensive abilities. Stones is suited for Pep's style than Smalling though. Smalling won't look good at all in Pep's system but he's a perfect defender for Mourinho.
What an insult to Rio Ferdinand. A 19 year old Rio was streets ahead of a 24 year old Stones. Its not even close
wow you're generous!I don't know. His leadership is probably only at a 6, but he uses his experience quite a lot to keep the defence together, a 9. So 8 is fair. He isn't as dumb as he looks either, if you are talking general play like how you would judge a midfielder then he is not the best but for a defender he clearly knows his theory and applies it well to his tasks.
Not sure about that. He's great at defending what's in front of him but he's easily lost by good movement and prone to leaving his teammates stranded. That doesn't scream keeping the defence together to me.
Not true. City would concede a lot more from dead ball situations and counterattacks if Stones was poor.
He's our best at moving into the correct positions to cover when others move out of theirs.Unfortunately our less reliable defenders don't always move over like they are supposed to as well. Thats why they are "stranded" because they didnt defend as a team.
Why only those 2 scenarios?
Because the narrative is that defenders at City don't do any actual defending because of all the possession they hold. Possession doesn't factor into your ability to keep balls out from corners, set pieces and counter attacks.
He's good at the standard stuff, shuffling over to cover fullbacks, making recovery tackles from gaps left, but too often he hesitates as a problem unfolds. He needs someone more assertive and confident next to him. There's a reason we concede more with him in the team and have done ever since our world class defenders left.
Why would it factor into conceding goals from crosses and a normal buildup from general play? Sure you might have a few less chances against you because you have so much of the ball, but surely you could just use the conversion % from crosses and shots?
Seems particularly weird given you conceded almost twice as many goals from open play than we did. And thats also where most of your goals conceded came from by far.
On the other hand United conceded almost as many goals on set pieces as they did in open play. Which tells us that we don't organize and defend well enough as a team and its not just the CBs who are liable. Particularly with a few Lukaku cock ups.
That's my point. It doesn't. I'd expect a City side with apparently shitty CBs to concede way more goals from dead ball situations and on the counter. Having high possession doesn't avail you of the need to have great defenders; it actually increases that need. Cockups get penalized more in such setups.
I'm not a City supporter. Yes, you could use that too. It's what plagued Liverpool last season and City 2 seasons ago; they conceded an abnormal amount of goals compared to the chances they conceded, which were high quality due to their style of play, which left space at the back if you knew how to exploit it. We on the other hand conceded a high amount of chances but let few of them go in. There's an argument in there as to how much of that was DDG and how much of that was the defense.
I'm not a City supporter. Makes sense doesn't it? City play a more expansive style of play and hold the ball more. Facing them, you'll get more chances to hurt them in open play than against us, who for the most part play compact with a low block, prioritizing defensive solidity. The anomaly is our weakness at set pieces. Yes, the entire team is liable for conceding goals from set pieces (Lukaku was just unlucky that day) but the CBs should be the prime organizers of the defense at corner kicks and set pieces. Rio and Vidic did that well. Our set of CBs aren't as good at it.
He's closer to Reo Coker than he is to Rio Ferdinand.
This is what the Caf thought about Rio when he's about the Stones age (forgive the pun). A CB isn't the finished product at 24 y.o.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rio-ferdinand.6414/
- Status