Let's be honest, these people can't form an opinion beyond "i dislike Jose therefore i side with Pogba". Might be wrapped up in some bollocks argument but that's what they're doing.
We're well past that stage and into the madness of fans self-identifying with things like "Martial FC", wishing a transfer for him to get away from horrible Mourinho and showing the world how good he can be, etc.
Lukaku has done well for thus far. 27 goals or something last season. 4 already this season. In a team struggling to create. That's quite good I think
When we sift through all the crap of who did what to whom and who is at fault when the dust settles on the season and if our progress has stalled under Jose than this is probably the logical approach from the clubs perspective.
I totally agree, I also think that it's not necessarily the right time to sell Pogba, we need to identify solid replacements and let a potential buyer mature a little bit, knee-jerk sales are the worst things.
I clarified that i think its hardly essential to grasping the dynamics of a squad but it certainly helps. The undermining of a manager that can be achieved by one bad egg is huge ive seen it many times first hand. Training gets affected, off pitch atmosphere does and without fail performance when it counts suffers. My point is most people who understand that can see that no matter what has been said or done (with the odd extreme exception) no players should ever engage with the media as carelessly as he has repeatedly done. SimpleLike having played "semi serious adult level" football makes any difference
This whole "Pogba Club", "FC Martial", "Jose this and that" needs to stop, it's like a 13 year old boy discovering master suppression techniques for the first time and think it's the best thing ever. It's getting tedious as feck
In relation to this case, it's handed badly from all parties. Not sure i understand the references to other managers, even bringing Fergie into this. Part of the equation is that this isn't anything new, it's generally viewed as a part of having Jose as the manager, he's known for falling out with players..It's hardly a surprise that this is something that effects the way people think about the situation we're in. A large amount of people, rightly or not, will believe that Mourinho is a large part of the problem, simply because he has a habit of getting into these type of situations. Doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean it's wrong.
Pogba at United was always going to be a short term solution, pretty clear from the start that they'd be looking at making a ton of money by changing clubs 3-4 seasons down the road, just a bit of a shame that we've been completely unable to take advantage of having him here.
The issue is that unless you are in the locker room, you have no idea about who is a bad egg and who isn't. I don't like the fact that he is having pressers every other weeks, ideally I would like to see things kept in-house but we need to keep in mind that if there is a legitimate issue and that the issue is known and not dealt with then players only option is to go public. That's why context is very important and why while we should all agree that it's not good to vent to the press, it's often a symptom of other issues not the cause. Someone needs to fix the cause, if it's because Pogba wants out then sell him, if it's because Mourinho is doing a bad job then fix it but do not sweep it under the carpet playing. The moral card won't fix anything.
Not claimimg to know a thing i couldnt. The stuff we can all see ourselves is truly unacceptable not to mentiom his performance level
The issue is that what we see is without context, so no it's not truly unacceptable, it could be truly unacceptable if you actually have the context though, at this point it's unpalatable at the worst. And his performances are the best from our playing staff, so on the field he isn't a bad egg, he is an asset.
If all Pogba wants to do is play for himself and has no discipline, how does that explain his performances at Juve and at the World Cup?
He's been awful.
I disagree totally that Pogba couldn't play for Barcelona. They don't play the tiki taka football they did under Pep which relied more on tactical discipline. They play a more direct style of football nowadays and bought players like Dembele and Vidal to fit that style.
Hasn't Pogba like won equal amount of things Mourinho has won at United? just asking
No shit. Pogba hasn't shown an ounce of the consistency and drive Beckham gave to us week in, week out.
Most recent misconception Under Fergie that we played 'beautiful' football all the time. No we didnt!
And tbf to Mourinho in his 2 years with us he has won a couple of 'things'
Actually the end part about players helping themselves and not making excuses for positions & playing styles etc.. i didnt 100% agree with that. Pogba def benefited from that at Juve with the playing style and Pirlo/Marchiso.
Actually I don't think his performances at Juve and France are much different than us... The difference is that both teams had/have absolute quality around him. Pirlo/Vidal at Juve, Kante at France. Even Drinkwater looked class playing alongside Kante... I mean we all know Pogba has 0 discipline and is usually playing for himself, nothing we didn't know before really. We have 2 massive egos at the club in Pogba and Jose and you can clearly see what they are trying to do. No chance we will see both here next season, I think we will see none.
And still Pogba was the one who was involved in all goals in group stages. His pass to Griezmann led to penalty, he forced own goal to win against Australia 2-1. He won the ball back in the final third which led to 1-0 win in second game. He didn't play third game and that was the only game France didn't win in the world cup.
He had Kante to cover his lazy ass.
The cheek of him, playing well with quality teammates around him.
I never said he wasn't good. He is good when he is in the mood of playing for the team. However when he is not, he is dragging the team down doing stupid rabonas all over the pitch.
Pogba wasn't the main man like he was expected to be at United. Neither Juventus nor France were built around him. United afforded him an opportunity to become the focal point of the side.
Or when he isn't playing well, his teammates are not good enough to carry the team.
He wasn't selfish and indisciplined at the World Cup. He performed very capably and followed the coach's instructions. Maybe we ought to try to replicate the absolute quality that brings out the best in him, rather than rely on him to do everything. I mean, why doesn't Carragher have a go at Sanchez for not performing?
Bet you didn't watch the final.
So we've learned that he isn't able to carry a crap side on his own. Maybe replace the ones that are crap, share the responsibility around a bit more?
World Cup is a completely different stage, not sure why do we even compare it with club season. I am sure he would be fine playing at CB if it meant winning it. Even France's style of play was fine for him although it was maybe even more negative than ours.
I don't believe it's acceptable for players to criticise their manager/his tactics in public, no matter what the context. It is also unthinkable that Manchester United would ever back an individual player in a dispute with the manager (again, regardless of the context).
You're right. If it had been another manager, I think the reactions would have been different. Some are blinded by their hatred for Mourinho that they can't even think beyond that.
Indeed, I cant believe under the right manager Pogba wouldn't flourish
I think you and i have different thresholds of when its acceptable for a player to behave like pogba has thats all. After a tough summer for the club we started the campaign with a win that gave glimpses of reasons for optimism.
Don't forget that you'd never, ever, get Carragher to say that Mourinho is at fault and has to be replaced. For some reason they all find it much easier to blame the players rather than managers.
United have clearly made a mistake in expecting Pogba to be that person, at least we can agree on that. I think that Jose sees this two and has reacted to it. Hes signed Matic and Fred to help spread the work load for Pogba and give him that freedom to "do Cruyff turns on the half way line." Pogba is not ready to carry the weight of expectation of a club like United. Hes absolutely not ready to captain a club like this, where he needs to be the example, the leader. And Mourinho is right to strip him of such a role. Pogbas reaction will be telling to Mourinho as well. How he conducts himself in the near future will tell us and Jose if he was right. So far it appears he may well have been.
No you can't suggest that everyone will tell you he's the second coming and can't be criticised.
True. Can't understand how people can't see the difference between his behavior at the World Cup compared to club level.
