Jose Mourinho's press conference - West Ham (A) : 14:00 BST

[SER19]

Another good conference from mourinho. You can try nitpick and construe things how you like but his interactions with the media have been way better this season, even when he lost the rag about respect. This is why Pogba creating a monster is so frustrating. There was just no need to do what he did post Leicester and reignite it all when he had been praised highly and made captain. I belive Jose called him a monster and that he put the team first. We had won, Shaw had scored and there was good optimism but Pogba just couldn’t let it go.

Mourinho is clearly a flawed guy and of course he says some stuff designed solely to protect himself. That’s been his manner as long as I’ve known him in football but in the grand scheme big deal. Different managers with different problems exist the world over - the state of klopps excuses would have this place cringing like crazy, guardiola has had more than his share of bust ups and sabbatical and hissy fits when losing, Conte had an utter meltdown last year -and I truly felt that he intended to start this season to be more adaptable with new coaches, cutting strings from faria and thought he’s been good with media. It’s not a popular opinion it seems, but in an adult world I think everybody needs to be on board with starting fresh and Pogba has completely done over the fans, his teammates and the early part of this season. Be it his agents influence or what, he needs to change if it isn’t too late.

 

[haram]

So I was wondering is it really because of Pogba though? After all neither Juventus nor France had ever had issues with the player. Conte is the closest successful manager I know to good old Keano and he loved him to bits. So lets analyse the other side

Mou mismanaged Lukaku, De Bruyne and Salah at Chelsea. He seem to have issues with Pogba and Martial at United + he was very close to ditch Shaw as well. Regarding transfers he ditched Mkhitaryan after previously signing him up. He is interested in a new CB despite buying Bailly and Lindelof which probably means he isn't really keen on those either, while Sanchez (top talent at Udinese, Barcelona and Arsenal) is playing dog shit under him. If you add Pogba to Mou's transfers that went horribly wrong list then that's around 40% of his transfers with us.

But that's not all. The man had problems with Chelsea's technical director, Chelsea's owner, Chelsea's doctor, United's CEO, some of the class of 92, a Real Legend (Iker Casillas), Inter's legend (Etoo) who sweated blood for him and two of United's top players (Martial and Pogba). Real players weren't too bothered to see his back, he lost Chelsea's dressing room, he also lost his no 2 and he had just been humiliated, at home, from one his protegees despite the latter having a championship side at his disposal. Ah and I almost forgot, Diego Costa kicked a bib at him, he had a bust up with Wenger and he was caught on video poking Vilanova in the eye from behind. He even had arguments with possibly the most talented and professional player of our generation ie Cristiano Ronaldo and had the cheek to say that there's only one Ronaldo ie the fat one who stayed out for an entire season on his club payroll only to turn things around during the WC. Which isn't really surprising considering that he had the cheek to say that Paul Scholes (remember the guy, red hair, no agents, never even considered leaving United) criticised Pogba because he's jealous of the money Pogba makes.

This is the sort of man Pogba and our players are having to live with.

I was going to correct you on some things, but how does this change what has happened this season? Mourinho hasn't said anything public about Pogba or the other players, it was Pogba who keeps saying things. Mourinho gave the captain armband to Pogba and he keeps talking, as does his agent. What is Mourinho supposed to do in this situation? Even in the press conference he said Pogba trained well and will play vs West Ham. Pogba needs to keep quiet and play football.

 

[SER19]

So I was wondering is it really because of Pogba though? After all neither Juventus nor France had ever had issues with the player. Conte is the closest successful manager I know to good old Keano and he loved him to bits. So lets analyse the other side

Mou mismanaged Lukaku, De Bruyne and Salah at Chelsea. He seem to have issues with Pogba and Martial at United + he was very close to ditch Shaw as well. Regarding transfers he ditched Mkhitaryan after previously signing him up. He is interested in a new CB despite buying Bailly and Lindelof which probably means he isn't really keen on those either, while Sanchez (top talent at Udinese, Barcelona and Arsenal) is playing dog shit under him. If you add Pogba to Mou's transfers that went horribly wrong list then that's around 40% of his transfers with us.

But that's not all. The man had problems with Chelsea's technical director, Chelsea's owner, Chelsea's doctor, United's CEO, some of the class of 92, a Real Legend (Iker Casillas), Inter's legend (Etoo) who sweated blood for him and two of United's top players (Martial and Pogba). Real players weren't too bothered to see his back, he lost Chelsea's dressing room, he also lost his no 2 and he had just been humiliated, at home, from one his protegees despite the latter having a championship side at his disposal. Ah and I almost forgot, Diego Costa kicked a bib at him, he had a bust up with Wenger and he was caught on video poking Vilanova in the eye from behind. He even had arguments with possibly the most talented and professional player of our generation ie Cristiano Ronaldo and had the cheek to say that there's only one Ronaldo ie the fat one who stayed out for an entire season on his club payroll only to turn things around during the WC. Which isn't really surprising considering that he had the cheek to say that Paul Scholes (remember the guy, red hair, no agents, never even considered leaving United) criticised Pogba because he's jealous of the money Pogba makes.

This is the sort of man Pogba and our players are having to live with.

You’re entitled to your opinion and clearly aren’t alone in your dislike of mourinho. What I would suggest though is not leaning so heavily to one side of any argument, almost ever. The points you are making are superficially true but really don’t carry much weight and makes your post just seem like a biased rant. I don’t really want to engage in a back and forth discussing every flaw in your details but it really just reads like a good old moan without any context at all. You don’t like the guy fair enough, I’m pro any manager for as long as possible and still support mourinho while recognising his flaws and things I think need to improve.

But does rattling off a few disgruntled players (in some cases based on little proof) really amount to a point worth making? I don’t contest he’s had his share of fallings out, and everybody in football, probably mourinho himself, knows he crossed a line in the incident with Vilanova. But even that sometimes gets conflated. You name the manager and any poster here, when leaning to one side of the debate heavily will be able to give you a decent little rant of things amounting to as much or more as you have done, even my all time hero sir Alex. I have anti united fans who did that for years about sir Alex, but it didn’t really make them right, any more than you are now.

Finally, you don’t really have any idea of ‘the sort of man Pogba and our players are having to live with.’ That’s a fairly hysterical way to phrase things presumably designed to add more weight to what you’re saying but most rational people aren’t going to buy into the victim hood of our poor multi millionaire athletes. Mourinho has had success unmatched by most managers ever in the game, so presumably at least a large majority of players have been fine working with him. Not to mention the hoardes of players that speak incredibly positively about him, including our own.

Your point of view would probably come across better if it wasn’t so superficial and biased

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Why why why do people always bring up the myth that Jose has mismanaged Salah and KDB???

They were deemed not good enough or surplus to requirements at that point in time. End of story. Jeez!

 

[redIndianDevil]

That’s a fairly hysterical way to phrase things presumably designed to add more weight to what you’re saying but most rational people aren’t going to buy into the victim hood of our poor multi millionaire athletes.

Yeah our players shouldn't feel because they are earning millions, whereas our manager(who is not doing his job properly and is also earning millions(even spread rumors that he might leave to get a better contract)) should have the right to absolutely insult anyone from his own players, club legends etc to the media to protect his fragile ego and can keep on bringing up his past achievements(which has absolutely nothing to do with us) and our recent poor results to make him feel better.

 

[The United]

Why why why do people always bring up the myth that Jose has mismanaged Salah and KDB???

They were deemed not good enough or surplus to requirements at that point in time. End of story. Jeez!

Yeah, calling how he dealt with those guys mismanaged is harsh.

He was just totally shit at developing, nurturing talents, lack of patient and vision for long term future.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah, calling how he dealt with those guys mismanaged is harsh.

He was just totally shit at developing, nurturing talents, lack of patient and vision for long term future.

Are Chelsea any better at bringing kids into their first team now? Not really. Sometimes the pressure is coming from the top and patience isn't allowed.

 

[The United]

Are Chelsea any better at bringing kids into their first team now? Not really. Sometimes the pressure is coming from the top and patience isn't allowed.

Or sometimes it is just that you know someone is just not being so good at it. Nothing wrong with it as long as he wins trophies.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Or sometimes it is just that you know someone is just not being so good at it. Nothing wrong with it as long as he wins trophies.

The last part for the big clubs is the important thing. It is up to kids to make the manager pick them. A young players attitude might not be great then, but sometimes a move away and them developing as human beings can make a big difference.

 

[The United]

The last part for the big clubs is the important thing. It is up to kids to make the manager pick them. A young players attitude might not be great then, but sometimes a move away and them developing as human beings can make a big difference.

Indeed winning is important at big clubs. And, since that's his specialty, he will be judged based on it here.

If he had the other quality a little bit though, it could have helped him a bit more for a bit longer when shit hits the fan.

 

[Canagel]

Why why why do people always bring up the myth that Jose has mismanaged Salah and KDB???

They were deemed not good enough or surplus to requirements at that point in time. End of story. Jeez!

Because he doesn't have patience with younger players especially attackers. He didn't recognize the talent they had.

 

[SER19]

Yeah our players shouldn't feel because they are earning millions, whereas our manager(who is not doing his job properly and is also earning millions(even spread rumors that he might leave to get a better contract)) should have the right to absolutely insult anyone from his own players, club legends etc to the media to protect his fragile ego and can keep on bringing up his past achievements(which has absolutely nothing to do with us) and our recent poor results to make him feel better.

Youre doing the same thing im afraid. Thats a) not what i said and b) a really dreadfully simple minded opinion which you are delivering as fact. Try to formulate a post by considering all sides of a topic not by going off on one.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Yeah, calling how he dealt with those guys mismanaged is harsh.

He was just totally shit at developing, nurturing talents, lack of patient and vision for long term future.

Think you're purposefully forgetting the role Abramovich plays here.

 

[Hisha]

Because he doesn't have patience with younger players especially attackers. He didn't recognize the talent they had.

Bollocks.. Jose wanted to keep KDB. He was aware of KDB's potential, but was not happy with his attitude in training. KDB wanted out as he was not ready to fight for his place. And this was reported by someone inside Chelsea (don't remember who). People purposefully avoid this to have a go at Jose.

 

[The United]

Think you're purposefully forgetting the role Abramovich plays here.

Which is?

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Which is?

That he primarily buys young players to eventually make a profit on them,and putting that profit back into the club or on future transfers and the cycles continues.
You dont hire Jose for long-termism and Ambro knows that as much as anyone in the sport.
Plus if the club thought highly enough of Salah and KDB at the time then they would've vetoed the deals,similarly to Jose reportedly wanting rid of Martial and Ed rejecting it .
Ambro likes money and Jose likes that money being used for experienced players.
That's why Ambro and Jose were almost a match made in heaven.Two strong ego's on a similar wavelength.

Plus,since Jose has left Chelsea,the club have still to this day continued in a similar path.How many young players have broken through at Stamford Bridge and are consistent members of the team ? Why did the club waste money on Drinkwater and Barkley when they could've brought players through ?
And in the latters case,Barkley,rumours were strong that Chelsea brought him to primarily make a future profit on him.

 

[The United]

That he primarily buys young players to eventually make a profit on them,and putting that profit back into the club or on future transfers and the cycles continues.
You dont hire Jose for long-termism and Ambro knows that as much as anyone in the sport.
Plus if the club thought highly enough of Salah and KDB at the time then they would've vetoed the deals,similarly to Jose reportedly wanting rid of Martial and Ed rejecting it .
Ambro likes money and Jose likes that money being used for experienced players.
That's why Ambro and Jose were almost a match made in heaven.Two strong ego's on a similar wavelength.

Plus,since Jose has left Chelsea,the club have still to this day continued in a similar path.How many young players have broken through at Stamford Bridge and are consistent members of the team ? Why did the club waste money on Drinkwater and Barkley when they could've brought players through ?
And in the latters case,Barkley,rumours were strong that Chelsea brought him to primarily make a future profit on him.

Oh I see. Are you a Chelsea's fan btw?

Also, if you think when I say jose's lack of whatever is only based on his time at Chelsea, then you could be right.

One more thing, if you agree that you don't hire Jose for long-termism, how many years would be enough for us to see if he is successful or if we should get rid him off?

 

[Red00012]

Because Pogba/Mourinho issues started due to criticism in public ? Mourinho has been very defensive for him in the pressers ever since the first season.

The issues started when Mourinho told Pogba to do certain role in Spurs game at Wembley, Pogba neglected it and was subbed few minutes later, then started to get dropped from selection later on.

So yeah the statement is right, if another player did the same with Fergie, he would have been chopped off in summer immediately. Mourinho has been in fact too patient with Pogba if anything else. The one who was bitching in the media this far is actually Pogba not his manager.

Criticism in public can be applied on Martial or Shaw but definitely not Pogba.

When did SAF ever slag of his entire team and individual players? Respect ain't given for free you have to earn it.

Because Pogba/Mourinho issues started due to criticism in public ? Mourinho has been very defensive for him in the pressers ever since the first season.

The issues started when Mourinho told Pogba to do certain role in Spurs game at Wembley, Pogba neglected it and was subbed few minutes later, then started to get dropped from selection later on.

So yeah the statement is right, if another player did the same with Fergie, he would have been chopped off in summer immediately. Mourinho has been in fact too patient with Pogba if anything else. The one who was bitching in the media this far is actually Pogba not his manager.

Criticism in public can be applied on Martial or Shaw but definitely not Pogba.

This.

 

[spiriticon]

The amount of revisionism about Mourinho's history in this topic is staggering.

It seems one press conference where he doesn't initiate a meltdown is enough all it takes to convince some fans that he never did or said anything wrong in his 2 years here.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

What you wrote never made no sense because France and Barcelona do not play the same. So I had to ask is he replacing Sergio? As the role you discribed could only fit ‘kinda’ what his job is in the team.

Just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean their perspective doesn't make sense. You didn't have to ask if he'd be replacing Sergio because you then laughed at the straw man you built for yourself.

 

[pacifictheme]

Bollocks.. Jose wanted to keep KDB. He was aware of KDB's potential, but was not happy with his attitude in training. KDB wanted out as he was not ready to fight for his place. And this was reported by someone inside Chelsea (don't remember who). People purposefully avoid this to have a go at Jose.

And it only took Salah 3 different clubs after chelsea to hit top form.

 

[Mainoldo]

Just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean their perspective doesn't make sense. You didn't have to ask if he'd be replacing Sergio because you then laughed at the straw man you built for yourself.

Like most things I just try to understand people’s thinking. I just found it odd you’d expect Barcelona to change their tactics to accommodate Paul Pogba to play the defensive role he played for France, when you more than clearly know that’s not how he plays football. You was just trying to be clever. So yes the straw man was quite funny.

 

[Mainoldo]

And it only took Salah 3 different clubs after chelsea to hit top form.

Shall we go through this? Lol

I’m quite sure it was 2 clubs and each time he got better and better, whilst Chelsea brought Pedro. I could imagine the Martial v Willian overview 4 years from now (if Jose had succeeded in his transfer plan).

 

[EyeInTheSky]

This will leave so many people desperately disappointed.

There still tying hard though. Amusing.

 

[oz insomniac]

Something to consider is the inability of Woody to move on the spare/underperforming players to make room for new signings. There seems to be a tendency to keep extending these players in the hope some desperate club will actually pay a decent transfer fee rather than take a loss and reenergise the squad.

Players from previous managers that are surplus are still stinking up the roster , unbelievable that Valencia is even considered a starter these days . As stated, the balance sheet is a major consideration to the owners and Woody, no surprise that there is stagnation on the field and in the roster.

 

[Hisha]

And it only took Salah 3 different clubs after chelsea to hit top form.

Also, it was Jose who bought Salah in the first place. So one can't say that he didn't recognize Salah's talent. And i have seen Jose celebrating passionately when Salah scored, he really wanted Salah to be a success at Chelsea, may be because he bought Salah. But changing from Swiss league to PL was huge step for Salah. He couldn't cope with the pressure, intensity and tactics and physicality of the league. So Chelsea had to let him go and that's the truth. But it won't fit the agenda of the media or of the haters.

 

[kendoka]

Bollocks.. Jose wanted to keep KDB. He was aware of KDB's potential, but was not happy with his attitude in training. KDB wanted out as he was not ready to fight for his place. And this was reported by someone inside Chelsea (don't remember who). People purposefully avoid this to have a go at Jose.

It was Mourinho himself who said he was not happy with KDB's attitude in training in the CL (vs Bucharest) press conference back in 2013.

KDB refuted his claim and said Mourinho never spoke to him in private about concerns over his effort in training.

Speaking to Belgian newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws, KDB said:

My pre-season was good, my first game too, but I still don't know why I lost my place after the game against Manchester United.
'I've also never asked Mourinho. He has never told me: 'Kevin, you don't train well.
It's a pity he told a press conference that I wasn't doing well on the training pitch. That's not me. I'm always a player who gives the full 100 per cent in training. Those remarks created a wrong image.
At the end of December I had a chat with Mourinho. He told me things about competition, training hard and there's always a chance that you will play.
And he also told me he wasn't keen to let me go, even on loan, saying: 'You're a good player.' But what could I do more?
After the press conference in Bucharest I even started training harder, even on my days off. I lost three kilos and two percent fat - although we could get everything at the club: coke, chocolate.
My situation has never changed. That's why I asked him in a friendly way: 'please let me go.'

It's basically Mourinho's word against KDB's and I believe KDB's story.

 

[devilish]

I was going to correct you on some things, but how does this change what has happened this season? Mourinho hasn't said anything public about Pogba or the other players, it was Pogba who keeps saying things. Mourinho gave the captain armband to Pogba and he keeps talking, as does his agent. What is Mourinho supposed to do in this situation? Even in the press conference he said Pogba trained well and will play vs West Ham. Pogba needs to keep quiet and play football.

You’re entitled to your opinion and clearly aren’t alone in your dislike of mourinho. What I would suggest though is not leaning so heavily to one side of any argument, almost ever. The points you are making are superficially true but really don’t carry much weight and makes your post just seem like a biased rant. I don’t really want to engage in a back and forth discussing every flaw in your details but it really just reads like a good old moan without any context at all. You don’t like the guy fair enough, I’m pro any manager for as long as possible and still support mourinho while recognising his flaws and things I think need to improve.

But does rattling off a few disgruntled players (in some cases based on little proof) really amount to a point worth making? I don’t contest he’s had his share of fallings out, and everybody in football, probably mourinho himself, knows he crossed a line in the incident with Vilanova. But even that sometimes gets conflated. You name the manager and any poster here, when leaning to one side of the debate heavily will be able to give you a decent little rant of things amounting to as much or more as you have done, even my all time hero sir Alex. I have anti united fans who did that for years about sir Alex, but it didn’t really make them right, any more than you are now.

Finally, you don’t really have any idea of ‘the sort of man Pogba and our players are having to live with.’ That’s a fairly hysterical way to phrase things presumably designed to add more weight to what you’re saying but most rational people aren’t going to buy into the victim hood of our poor multi millionaire athletes. Mourinho has had success unmatched by most managers ever in the game, so presumably at least a large majority of players have been fine working with him. Not to mention the hoardes of players that speak incredibly positively about him, including our own.

Your point of view would probably come across better if it wasn’t so superficial and biased

My aim is to understand whether our drop in performance and all this charade surrounding this captaincy is Pogba's or Mourinho's fault based not only on the two, but their interactions with other people, their past experiences etc. You see I've been following the two for a long long time. I know people who met Mourinho when he was at Inter and I had the privilege to meet and interview Pogba few years back when he was still at the United's academy. You see, in many ways they are similar. Both are determined people who would put their career above anything and anyone.

Such characteristic is evident in Mou, especially in his early years. He left clubs that absolutely adored him with a certain level of uncommon ruthlessness which shocked even the likes of Inter. Pogba isn't different. He moved from one club to another even at an early age with the sole aim of bettering himself. When he felt United weren't ready to give him a first team chance he showed us the middle finger and took the rather ruthless and courageous decision to move to Juventus. I was absolutely shocked that he actually made it there. Juventus are, in my opinion, one of the most ruthless clubs in the world. Its not a place were players are cuddled. Fair play to him that he was able not only to make it but also to excel in it.

Putting one's career first is not necessary a bad trait. I can name countless players who were like that from Inzaghi to Vieri right to Keane, RVN, Zidane and Beckham. Some were able to hide it well. For example SAF once said that Paul Scholes was the worst player to bench as he would go on moaning about it forever. Pirlo played for all the 3 big clubs in Italy (Juventus, Inter and AC Milan). That would be the equivalent of lets say Gerrard playing for Shitty, Liverpool and Man United.

However, it can turn nasty when things start not going well for that person. Take for example Keane. His ambition and determination drove the club forward during the treble. Yet at the end it turned him into a rabid dog who would shift the blame to others. We've seen that with Mou at Real and Chelsea. He snapped at legends, he blamed the owners, the football staff (technical director, club doctor) and the journalists. As our performances are plummeting I fear that he's doing the same with us. Till the time of writing he snapped at Pogba, Martial and Shaw. He seem to lose interest in the very players he had just bought (Lindelof, Bailly and Mkhitaryan) and he engaged into silly arguments with club legends and the CEO. There was a time when he even refused to let MUTV experienced presenter Stewart Gardner interview him. How petty is that?

That's concerning to say the least. You see, back in my time, the top managers were LVG, Sacchi and Capello. The former two had revolutionised football and inspired pretty much all the top managers there are around. Nowadays, Capello has all but vanished and the other two are a bit of a circus act. You see, time will always catch up with managers. Opponents will learn the manager's tactics and they will exploit its weaknesses. SAF himself once said that he was a bit of a dinosaur in terms of tactics. The only way an old manager can keep winning is for him to improve his man management. He'll need that to delegate tactics to the young generation and to persuade his players to go on the pitch and bleed for him. That's why SAF kept winning and Mou's frequent spats with everyone around him + his recent results, had persuaded me that its his time to go. He's nowhere as special as he once was.

Don't take me wrong I won't be surprised if Pogba wants out. This toxic situation is bad for his career and as said, his career comes first. However, I believe that things would change if we bring in a new top manager preferably with adequate man management skills. The alternative is to stick to Mou and his scattergun approach of shifting the blame to anyone (Martial, Pogba, Shaw, our former legends who are jealous of his player's money, our presenter, Woody etc) but himself.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Because he doesn't have patience with younger players especially attackers. He didn't recognize the talent they had.

I read this a lot and I disagree with it. In my view it’s the players who are impatient in these circumstances not the manager.

I appreciate people will take the view that you have to play a young player constantly for three years in order to let them develop. I disagree that you can do that at a top club where there are immediate demands to win top trophies.

No big club plays players who aren’t ready. They need to be phased in and allowed to develop gradually. The players need to wait their turn.

As much as I like Lukaku, for example, you could argue even now he’s not good enough to displace peak Costa.

Salah had a sensational season last season, but it might yet prove to be a one-off.

De Bruyne took a bit of time to win another big move and still continued to improve at City, to become the player he has.

It happens at top clubs but only Mourinho seems to have this bizarre narrative attached to him.

 

[Janson]

So I was wondering is it really because of Pogba though? After all neither Juventus nor France had ever had issues with the player. Conte is the closest successful manager I know to good old Keano and he loved him to bits. So lets analyse the other side

Mou mismanaged Lukaku, De Bruyne and Salah at Chelsea. He seem to have issues with Pogba and Martial at United + he was very close to ditch Shaw as well. Regarding transfers he ditched Mkhitaryan after previously signing him up. He is interested in a new CB despite buying Bailly and Lindelof which probably means he isn't really keen on those either, while Sanchez (top talent at Udinese, Barcelona and Arsenal) is playing dog shit under him. If you add Pogba to Mou's transfers that went horribly wrong list then that's around 40% of his transfers with us.

But that's not all. The man had problems with Chelsea's technical director, Chelsea's owner, Chelsea's doctor, United's CEO, some of the class of 92, a Real Legend (Iker Casillas), Inter's legend (Etoo) who sweated blood for him and two of United's top players (Martial and Pogba). Real players weren't too bothered to see his back, he lost Chelsea's dressing room, he also lost his no 2 and he had just been humiliated, at home, from one his protegees despite the latter having a championship side at his disposal. Ah and I almost forgot, Diego Costa kicked a bib at him, he had a bust up with Wenger and he was caught on video poking Vilanova in the eye from behind. He even had arguments with possibly the most talented and professional player of our generation ie Cristiano Ronaldo and had the cheek to say that there's only one Ronaldo ie the fat one who stayed out for an entire season on his club payroll only to turn things around during the WC. Which isn't really surprising considering that he had the cheek to say that Paul Scholes (remember the guy, red hair, no agents, never even considered leaving United) criticised Pogba because he's jealous of the money Pogba makes.

This is the sort of man Pogba and our players are having to live with.

Is there any possibility that knowing all this is clouding your judgement of how bad the situation is now between the players and Mourinho?

 

[devilish]

Is there any possibility that knowing all this is clouding your judgement of how bad the situation is now between the players and Mourinho?

Please read my previous post

 

[EyeInTheSky]

A specialist in failure some might say

Ziiiiiiiiing

 

[royboy16]

Looks like he's playing mind games.
He has said we will play well and win,so he is either putting the team under a bit of pressure to put in a shift and win or its not his fault if we don't play well and win.

 

[SER19]

My aim is to understand whether our drop in performance and all this charade surrounding this captaincy is Pogba's or Mourinho's fault based not only on the two, but their interactions with other people, their past experiences etc. You see I've been following the two for a long long time. I know people who met Mourinho when he was at Inter and I had the privilege to meet and interview Pogba few years back when he was still at the United's academy. You see, in many ways they are similar. Both are determined people who would put their career above anything and anyone.

Such characteristic is evident in Mou, especially in his early years. He left clubs that absolutely adored him with a certain level of uncommon ruthlessness which shocked even the likes of Inter. Pogba isn't different. He moved from one club to another even at an early age with the sole aim of bettering himself. When he felt United weren't ready to give him a first team chance he showed us the middle finger and took the rather ruthless and courageous decision to move to Juventus. I was absolutely shocked that he actually made it there. Juventus are, in my opinion, one of the most ruthless clubs in the world. Its not a place were players are cuddled. Fair play to him that he was able not only to make it but also to excel in it.

Putting one's career first is not necessary a bad trait. I can name countless players who were like that from Inzaghi to Vieri right to Keane, RVN, Zidane and Beckham. Some were able to hide it well. For example SAF once said that Paul Scholes was the worst player to bench as he would go on moaning about it forever. Pirlo played for all the 3 big clubs in Italy (Juventus, Inter and AC Milan). That would be the equivalent of lets say Gerrard playing for Shitty, Liverpool and Man United.

However, it can turn nasty when things start not going well for that person. Take for example Keane. His ambition and determination drove the club forward during the treble. Yet at the end it turned him into a rabid dog who would shift the blame to others. We've seen that with Mou at Real and Chelsea. He snapped at legends, he blamed the owners, the football staff (technical director, club doctor) and the journalists. As our performances are plummeting I fear that he's doing the same with us. Till the time of writing he snapped at Pogba, Martial and Shaw. He seem to lose interest in the very players he had just bought (Lindelof, Bailly and Mkhitaryan) and he engaged into silly arguments with club legends and the CEO. There was a time when he even refused to let MUTV experienced presenter Stewart Gardner interview him. How petty is that?

That's concerning to say the least. You see, back in my time, the top managers were LVG, Sacchi and Capello. The former two had revolutionised football and inspired pretty much all the top managers there are around. Nowadays, Capello has all but vanished and the other two are a bit of a circus act. You see, time will always catch up with managers. Opponents will learn the manager's tactics and they will exploit its weaknesses. SAF himself once said that he was a bit of a dinosaur in terms of tactics. The only way an old manager can keep winning is for him to improve his man management. He'll need that to delegate tactics to the young generation and to persuade his players to go on the pitch and bleed for him. That's why SAF kept winning and Mou's frequent spats with everyone around him + his recent results, had persuaded me that its his time to go. He's nowhere as special as he once was.

Don't take me wrong I won't be surprised if Pogba wants out. This toxic situation is bad for his career and as said, his career comes first. However, I believe that things would change if we bring in a new top manager preferably with adequate man management skills. The alternative is to stick to Mou and his scattergun approach of shifting the blame to anyone (Martial, Pogba, Shaw, our former legends who are jealous of his player's money, our presenter, Woody etc) but himself.

While i still largely disagree with you, can you see why your first post is so bad and why this forum should generally demand more like your second?

The volume of posts like your first is overwhelming this place and in my opinion really cutting into the quality. Disagreeing is fine but its better when its a considered post

 

[Ban]

There still tying hard though. Amusing.

As expected. If he calms things down he's being political if he says something he's having a meltdown.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Like most things I just try to understand people’s thinking. I just found it odd you’d expect Barcelona to change their tactics to accommodate Paul Pogba to play the defensive role he played for France, when you more than clearly know that’s not how he plays football. You was just trying to be clever. So yes the straw man was quite funny.

Ok, well lets look at your statement then. You've just said that Sergio plays for Barcelona in a similar way Pogba does for France. You're also ruling out him replacing Rakitic, so you must be assuming that if he's going to Barcelona, that he's going to run wild and free, playing instead of Messi, Suarez, Dembele, or Coutinho... Right?

I believe Paul Pogba plays football for France, so saying that's not how he plays football doesn't make any sense. In fact, he's world class when he plays that way. If what you're saying is that Mourinho is at fault for asking him to do what he does at a world class level for France, then you're probably purposefully being a little closed minded.

I think Barcelona would expect Pogba to adjust to their tactics and system, not the other way around... just the way Mourinho does. Given the players in their squad, I wouldn't think that would be an undisciplined role.

Mourinho makes mistakes, but this whole "Mourinho = bad, therefore Not-Mourinho = good" logic that some people on here display is just bizarre.

 

[devilish]

While i still largely disagree with you, can you see why your first post is so bad and why this forum should generally demand more like your second?

The volume of posts like your first is overwhelming this place and in my opinion really cutting into the quality. Disagreeing is fine but its better when its a considered post

Maybe I didn't explained better in the first post but I think both posts are equal in terms of quality. You see Mou like most bad losers has the tendency to nitpick and shift the blame on others. I was wondering if Pogba is just the latest name of an endless list of people who ended up under his target.

 

[Moonred]

Looks like he's playing mind games.
He has said we will play well and win,so he is either putting the team under a bit of pressure to put in a shift and win or its not his fault if we don't play well and win.

No mind games. And no one will fall for it’s not Jose’s fault. Apart from a few imbeciles, everyone can see through it.

 

[Mainoldo]

Ok, well lets look at your statement then. You've just said that Sergio plays for Barcelona in a similar way Pogba does for France. You're also ruling out him replacing Rakitic, so you must be assuming that if he's going to Barcelona, that he's going to run wild and free, playing instead of Messi, Suarez, Dembele, or Coutinho... Right?

I believe Paul Pogba plays football for France, so saying that's not how he plays football doesn't make any sense. In fact, he's world class when he plays that way. If what you're saying is that Mourinho is at fault for asking him to do what he does at a world class level for France, then you're probably purposefully being a little closed minded.

I think Barcelona would expect Pogba to adjust to their tactics and system, not the other way around... just the way Mourinho does. Given the players in their squad, I wouldn't think that would be an undisciplined role.

Mourinho makes mistakes, but this whole "Mourinho = bad, therefore Not-Mourinho = good" logic that some people on here display is just bizarre.

If he replaces Rakitic he won’t be playing how he does for France would he? Maybe he would replace Iniesta?! If you watched Barcelona I don’t think you would have been so comfortable to name Dembele like he holds clout to where Pogba would play.

For France he played a more restricted role than he normally plays for them which worked for that tournament asking him to play that week in week out is abit much. As Mourinho did point out which I agree he doesn’t have the concentration levels for it. So yes he would have to adjust but I’m sure it would be a lot more easier than trying to be the new Chelsea Michael Ballack.

 

[pacifictheme]

Shall we go through this? Lol

I’m quite sure it was 2 clubs and each time he got better and better, whilst Chelsea brought Pedro. I could imagine the Martial v Willian overview 4 years from now (if Jose had succeeded in his transfer plan).

Fiorentina
Roma
Liverpool (when he actually became a rod to beat Jose with)

3.