This is how you lose a squad.
United squad frustrated with Mourinho over Matic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Who knows, maybe there is truth in this story.
Matic stinks up the place and starts every game, other players even though they play well gets dropped and few players are dropped for their first bad performance.
Matic stinks up the place and starts every game, other players even though they play well gets dropped and few players are dropped for their first bad performance.
Matic always plays as he has the physical attributes that Jose loves and believes must be present in a successful team!
Problem is, he's 15 years out of date! City are proving (before them Barcelona) that three nimble, highly technical attacking midfielders that can press and tackle will outdo tall sloths! Mou won't change though
Problem is, he's 15 years out of date! City are proving (before them Barcelona) that three nimble, highly technical attacking midfielders that can press and tackle will outdo tall sloths! Mou won't change though
Wouldn't blame them, he's been terrible for a long time now.
It could easily be from one of the many random staff members who want a bit of extra money on the side. Or a family member or friend of one of the players (I guess in a sense that player is still part of the leak, but he wouldn't be the one going to the press himself). That's not to say it couldn't be a player doing it himself, but it's not the only scenario.
But as you said, most likely it's not true at all. If it is, hopefully it has the same result as when Sanchez and Lukaku got dropped for a while.
He's undroppable because we've had no other players of the same type available. Don't think Pereira / Fred are this type. Herrera/Fellaini's been out.
Let's see if Fellaini get more games there now he's back. Been doing alright there.
Let's see if Fellaini get more games there now he's back. Been doing alright there.
Regardless of whether this is true or not it’s one of the things about Mourinhos reign that has grated me the most.
His favouritism towards certain players regardless of form.
We’ve seen the likes of Matic, Lingard, Lukaku, Smalling at one time or another completely stink the place up for months on end but continually start games. Yet when players like Baily, Shaw, Martial have had one or two bad performances they are immediately out the team.
As stupid as our players seem most weeks, they aren’t THAT stupid. They will notice the favouritism and it will create some animosity, no doubt about that.
His favouritism towards certain players regardless of form.
We’ve seen the likes of Matic, Lingard, Lukaku, Smalling at one time or another completely stink the place up for months on end but continually start games. Yet when players like Baily, Shaw, Martial have had one or two bad performances they are immediately out the team.
As stupid as our players seem most weeks, they aren’t THAT stupid. They will notice the favouritism and it will create some animosity, no doubt about that.
Press shit stirring again I see. To think they get paid handsome salaries for this shit.
Feck it, this forum may as well become pay as you post. Dont need The Times telling me what the average goon is thinking.
Feck it, this forum may as well become pay as you post. Dont need The Times telling me what the average goon is thinking.
Regarding these leaks, all it takes is one the players to go home and complain to someone after a match or training session. It could be his mate,Mrs,barber,agent,family member or even the gardener. It will 95% not come direct from a players mouth doubt they’d risk that.
Or kore Likley just general bullshit from the media completly made up in the office to fill a column.
Or kore Likley just general bullshit from the media completly made up in the office to fill a column.
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One of Fergie's core strengths was squad rotation and the politicking therein. He gave players in his squad hope and didn't isolate nor was his favouritism such that poor players had indeterminacy with regard to their place in his xi.
All this to say the conditions that generate such fissures and animosity weren't there for any kind of like-for-like situation to even have legs, so it's all well and good saying this doesn't happen under Fergie, but don't forget the reasons why before even respect for him is considered.
This could easily be considered a by-product of Mourinho's management style.
And how do you know they haven't done those things? How long into a season that is falling apart should the status quo remain?
There are players being given disparate chances to fail; how much anger do you think that generates in non-favourites who are being directly affected by the selection bias?
These leaks, if not made up, don't put pressure on the team - they put pressure on both Mourinho and the underperforming player.
Well said!
If these reports are true then it's part of a trend that's been going strong since SAF retired. Players crying to the media. A serious lack of discipline.
We've had the same issues since Fergie retired with poor man-managers all doing the same thing, so it's not a surprise.
We've had a problem with having not good-enough players feeling unhappy about not only getting their completely undeserved wages but also not having their own way. I would understand if Pereira is unhappy. He could make some comments to that effect under his own name. But we've got a host of players who everyone knows aren't good enough and would never get anywhere near the wages they're on elsewhere, let alone at clubs looking to win anything.
It's too easy to merely blame the managers. Levy is maybe a bit of a sour puss, but he'd never reward mediocrity like our board does. Also, with the players being unhappy about Sanchez' wages that's not down to Mourinho, you know. So the problems we have with granting new contracts to Martial, de Gea and (maybe) Pogba, is entirely self-made by the board.
Think it's the press shit stirring. However, I don't mind as it at least brings the Matic issue out into the open. Maybe Jose will feel some pressure to drop him.
Even if true, I can understand why Jose starts him considering he's our only true defensive mid as opposed to converted ones like Herrera and our defense certainly is weak. Though the irony is that many of our goals conceded are due to him only.
But we need to try something new. Let his decline be a lesson to the club. Unless a 30+ yr old has the stamina and physique of someone younger, like Ronaldo or Zlatan, or his game is truly refined and unique (D Silva, Iniesta), we shouldn't buy such players who will last just one season.
But we need to try something new. Let his decline be a lesson to the club. Unless a 30+ yr old has the stamina and physique of someone younger, like Ronaldo or Zlatan, or his game is truly refined and unique (D Silva, Iniesta), we shouldn't buy such players who will last just one season.
Let's toss the other stuff out and focus on on-field favouritism as it is the crux of this discussion. If you've a team-mate who constantly underperforms in your position but gets no reprimand for it whilst the manager just leaves you out to pasture, you're going to have animosity in-camp, how can you not? If you don't, it simply means the players being dumped don't even care and are just happy to train and pick up wages.
Moyes was terribly isolationist, as was (My captain shall always play) Van Gaal. Mourinho is on another level to both of them in this regard and it's a great strength of his when it works, and a terrible weakness when it doesn't.
These managers create a rod for their own back that the likes of Fergie were skilful and mindful enough to avoid from the outset. The caveat here, of course, is that, unlike all that have come here since, the squad Fergie had was his - all his players, and thus all of one, hive (in a good way) mind. All these other managers have inherited mish-mashes from one another, so you've immediately got friction in that they've got players in their squads they didn't want and would get rid of if they could. Still, the skill there is to at least make those you don't want feel like they have worth and can do a job for you when and as you need them to. Creating such a lopsided and favoured set of players against 'the rest' vying for their position is a recipe for disaster unless 'the chosen' are playing fantastically well. When they don't, but get played regardless... it's poor man-management.
The caveat is pretty important. That being said, I don't expect Jose to keep faith in Matic much longer but I think he's not there because he's the favourite but because he follows instructions. He's definitely in bad form now and hopefully Pereira gets his chance. And again, on the topic at hand, it is a huge problem that players feel they can undermine the manager by complaining anonymously to the press. If they can't do so in-house, I'd rather they do it openly.
Fred has been on the bench.
Doesnt matter if they have or not, running to the press doesnt help and should never be an option. You cant have squad unity if you dont trust the man next to you. The press doesnt care about making things fair for a player thats being left out, they only care about generating clicks. At the end of the day, its a team game. You do what you can for your team, not yourself. And if really really unhappy, well thats whats transfer requests are for. No manager has ever backed down because his team went crying to the press.
I should say at this point, if its true. Im not convinced it isnt just paper talk looking to rub sub fans the wrong way to generate those clicks.
I’d be really surprised if this was anything more than a rumour made up by the press.
Nobody would benefit from leaking such news, surely? Maybe Pereria I guess!
Nobody would benefit from leaking such news, surely? Maybe Pereria I guess!
I never hear these leaks about any other teams.
Either our players are snakes or the journalists are. I hope it's the latter.
Either our players are snakes or the journalists are. I hope it's the latter.
I think as fans we have the right to be annoyed at Matic's constant inclusion.
I don't think the vast majority of the players do though, so many have been crap.
I don't think the vast majority of the players do though, so many have been crap.
It’s not uncommon to have a leak in the dressing room as we have had in the past as well which was obvious
When the going gets tough you start hearing these things. Chelsea, Madrid etc all have them when they’re bad
In what world is Fernandinho a nimble, highly technical attacking midfielder?
Considering he's 33 i'd say he's doing alright.
Swap him for Matic and we'd be a hell of a lot better.
It's nothing we're not already thinking and I'm certain it's not at all based on anything substantial (or real), but like clockwork, out comes a negative United story only 2 days in to the international break.
Umm, ok? How does that make him a nimble, highly technical attacking midfielder?
I'll give you a clue, it doesn't.
Well he beat Lingard in a foot race? can't be that bad after all.
He'd probably be a second Fellaini for you (in both good and bad ways).
Probably shit-stirring, but I wouldn't blame our other midfielders from wondering what Jose is waiting for. I've rarely seen a player who plays every week for his side look more deserving of a benching.
We will be better because he defends and tackles better, and disturbs loads of attacks before they even begin with his tactical fouling, not because he's technical or attacking midfielder. That's imagnative point.
He's much better on the ball and at building up the passing from the back.
His forward passes are very underrated too. God knows how he stays on the pitch most matches though
From someone in the team that has our backs.
Mourinho has used Fellaini as his #6 a couple of games now during the season against the "big" teams. As he did against City. Which is fine, he is actually more mobile than Matic and way better in the air when defending crosses.
What I dont get is Mourinho playing Matic as a number 8 at LCM when he already has replaced his qualities in the more defensive position with Fellaini. Matic offers nothing in that more offensive position except for being left-footed. Its really weird and I so dont get it.
What I dont get is Mourinho playing Matic as a number 8 at LCM when he already has replaced his qualities in the more defensive position with Fellaini. Matic offers nothing in that more offensive position except for being left-footed. Its really weird and I so dont get it.
Reporter writes article based on fans opinion of a player. Reporter says he has inside knowledge that staff and players are unhappy of the decision without providing any evidence to back up his claims. Large majority of United fans read this, who already dislike the manager just assume it's true because its in the paper. I cannot believe how dumb some people really are.
Matic isn't playing well just now and was shown up badly in the City game, but he wasn't the only one. He might be part of the problem, but the problems run far deeper and wider than him alone.
Managers always have their favourites and Matic is one of Mourinho's boys but I seriously doubt the rest of the players are looking at Matic and thinking he is the reason United are struggling just now.
Managers always have their favourites and Matic is one of Mourinho's boys but I seriously doubt the rest of the players are looking at Matic and thinking he is the reason United are struggling just now.
Glad if it's true.
If Jose wants to bring out the players problems to the media like an ice cream van - then let the players bring out Jose's faults to the kids.
If Jose wants to bring out the players problems to the media like an ice cream van - then let the players bring out Jose's faults to the kids.
You're acting like there is no evidence to back up this story. its clear Lukaku, Matic and Fellaini get a lot less grief from Mou in pressers compared to Rashford/Pogba/Martial/Shaw. If any of the latter 4 have a bad game they are questioned on their abilities and commitment in public and dropped for a run of games. If the others have a bad game they start the next match and are never bad mouthed by Mou.