The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Fracture90]

He literally scored against Chelsea last year and I think he even won man of the match. Yes we did miss Lukaku against Chelsea and only bullshit revisionists will try to deny it.

We were better than every other team apart from City. Spurs were just fine at Wembley and we were ahead of Liverpool the entire season so the bollocks about them resting players doesn’t run.

So one game changes like 30 other he played when he wasn't all that good? How about that for revisionism.

The fact that you don't see the implications of Spurs, a high pressing team suddenly having to play their home games on a totally different stadium that has a bigger playing surface than their own, tell a lot about your lack of football knowledge. Let alone you believing we were better than any other team bar City. But then again we were better at bus parking, and you didn't really specify…

Also you failed to answer my question, which is shame.

 

[UncleBob]

He definitely wanted Perisic the summer before last, we were also heavily linked with Willian this summer. We were heavily linked with Alex Sandro and signed a RB. Mourinho said he wanted two players but thought he would only get one more days before deadline day. If one was a CB (which he thought he was getting), what was the other position? The links to a physical presence up front (Mandzukic, Arnautovic) died after Fellaini signed a contract.

The second player was most probably a RW. Everyone knows we need one.

We all know he wanted Perisic before the 17/18 season, didn't get him, still finished second, then we have completely regressed in any way possible, how is not getting Perisic linked to us improving to get 2nd and then regressing ? Explain, you're just throwing out random points without bothering to back it up with anything.

We are heavily linked with a lot of players every season. Dalot was an early signing, what makes you think our interest in Sandro was real.

February 2018: “We have Alexis, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford,” the United manager explained. “Rashford can play on the left and the right, Alexis is exactly the same. All of them apart from Lukaku can play from behind as the second striker. “That’s why I say that it’s bad for you because you like to have things to write and speculate, especially in the summer, but I don’t want attacking players so don’t speak about attacking players that are coming here because nobody is coming here.”

 

[haram]

So one game changes like 30 other he played when he wasn't all that good? How about that for revisionism.

The fact that you don't see the implications of Spurs, a high pressing team suddenly having to play their home games on a totally different stadium that has a bigger playing surface than their own, tell a lot about your lack of football knowledge. Let alone you believing we were better than any other team bar City. But then again we were better at bus parking, and you didn't really specify…

Also you failed to answer my question, which is shame.

Spurs had the same amount of points as Liverpool at home last season. They started slow at Wembley but soon adjusted and were fine.

The table doesn’t lie. We were second the entire season so we were the second best team. I will ignore your petulant comment about my football knowledge.

 

[roonster09]

Just checked for you:
Note - All but 4 of these passes reach very close to or over the half way line.

Spoiler

Crystal Palace:
Left of pitch - 1 Long Pass
Middle of pitch - 5 Long Passes
Right of pitch - 3 Long Passes
Total - 9

City:
Left - 3
Middle - 8
Right - 8
Total - 19

Bournemouth:
Left - 6
Middle - 11
Right - 6
Total - 23

Everton:
Left - 13
Middle - 6
Right - 5
Total - 24

Chelsea:
Left - 11
Middle - 7
Right - 7
Total - 25

Total:
Left - 34
Middle - 37
Right - 29

Final Third - 15
Middle Third - 81
Defensive Third - 4

In the same period of time Chelsea had 36 total long passes compared to Uniteds 100. That took a while to do!

First of all, thanks for the effort. I know how time consuming it is.

Again I think problem is what is defined as long passes. I gave you numbers, most of these long passes are kept on the ground. So if whoscored got it correct then he is not hoofing it, he is passing the ball to either FB or winger.

Can you tell me what's the significance of whether the pass was made to right side, left side or middle? For me it's all same if the ball is kept on the ground.

Context I was looking for is, whether these long balls are just kick and hope or actual passes. Going by whoscored, he is not hoofing it long but he is keeping it on the ground when passing the ball long.

Anyways thanks for the effort. Looks like we both are looking for different things here.

 

[haram]

We all know he wanted Perisic before the 17/18 season, didn't get him, still finished second, then we have completely regressed in any way possible, how is not getting Perisic linked to us improving to get 2nd and then regressing ? Explain, you're just throwing out random points without bothering to back it up with anything.

We are heavily linked with a lot of players every season. Dalot was an early signing, what makes you think our interest in Sandro was real.

February 2018: “We have Alexis, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford,” the United manager explained. “Rashford can play on the left and the right, Alexis is exactly the same. All of them apart from Lukaku can play from behind as the second striker. “That’s why I say that it’s bad for you because you like to have things to write and speculate, especially in the summer, but I don’t want attacking players so don’t speak about attacking players that are coming here because nobody is coming here.”

What was the second player then? He does not include Mata and Lingard in that list and they play on the right. The second player he wanted was most probably a RW. February 2018 is also different to summer 2018.

It’s not about not getting Perisic. It’s about not having any real wingers, zero width and a lack of build up from defence. Things the manager wanted to correct but the players were not signed.

 

[Judas]

We were the 2nd best team in the league last season, fact. The table never lies.

Why people are still going on about last season I don't know though, move on, focus on the current mess.

 

[RedSky]

First of all, thanks for the effort. I know how time consuming it is.

Again I think problem is what is defined as long passes. I gave you numbers, most of these long passes are kept on the ground. So if whoscored got it correct then he is not hoofing it, he is passing the ball to either FB or winger.

Can you tell me what's the significance of whether the pass was made to right side, left side or middle? For me it's all same if the ball is kept on the ground.

Context I was looking for is, whether these long balls are just kick and hope or actual passes. Going by whoscored, he is not hoofing it long but he is keeping it on the ground when passing the ball long.

Anyways thanks for the effort. Looks like we both are looking for different things here.

Well if he's passing to the middle of the pitch then he's obviously not passing it to a winger/fullback and instead passing it into a contested area of the pitch. It's worth pointing out that as far as i'm aware these are successful passes. Inaccurate passes aren't logged in chalkboard (which is annoying). That's why I used the general stats in the end as there was no way of counting inaccurate long ones at least on Whoscored anyway. Not sure if there's another chalkboard site that does log it?

 

[UncleBob]

What was the second player then? He does not include Mata and Lingard in that list and they play on the right. The second player he wanted was most probably a RW. February 2018 is also different to summer 2018.

It’s not about not getting Perisic. It’s about not having any real wingers, zero width and a lack of build up from defence. Things the manager wanted to correct but the players were not signed.

Neither of them play on the right.

You're just throwing out claim after claim after claim after claim after claim, going from one claim to the other.

Probably this, probably that, probably probably probably

Why have we gone from looking like mounting a title challenge to looking like midtable team, with what should arguably be a better equipped team ? Why aren't the same players who brought us 2nd place last season progressing. It's not because we didn't sign player y 1,5 year ago.

 

[Cloud7]

We were the 2nd best team in the league last season, fact. The table never lies.

Why people are still going on about last season I don't know though, move on, focus on the current mess.

The main reason people go on about it is because nine times out of ten it’s used as a defense for why Mourinho shouldn’t be sacked. There really isn’t anything else to cling to so it’s either “second place last season” or the fantastic “league cup, Europa league and sixth place” treble.

 

[Judas]

Why are people even bothering to debate people who think Jose shouldn't be sacked? It's pointless.

 

[haram]

Neither of them play on the right.

You're just throwing out claim after claim after claim after claim after claim, going from one claim to the other.

Probably this, probably that, probably probably probably

Why have we gone from looking like mounting a title challenge to looking like midtable team, with what should arguably be a better equipped team ? Why aren't the same players who brought us 2nd place last season progressing. It's not because we didn't sign player y 1,5 year ago.

I already said we should have more points. My point is that if we want to see progress from last season in terms of how we play then we need width and build up from the back.

What do you mean neither of them play on the right? Those are the two most used players coming off the right. I am asking you who was the second player if it was not a winger?

 

[haram]

We were the 2nd best team in the league last season, fact. The table never lies.

Why people are still going on about last season I don't know though, move on, focus on the current mess.

Maybe because we were discussing last season?

 

[Fracture90]

Spurs had the same amount of points as Liverpool at home last season. They started slow at Wembley but soon adjusted and were fine.

The table doesn’t lie. We were second the entire season so we were the second best team. I will ignore your petulant comment about my football knowledge.

So if Spurs had the same amount of points from home game like Liverpool, it means Spurs adjusted to Wembley quickly? But then again by trying to make a point that them playing on Wembley had nothing to do with them finishing under us in the league you've actually confirmed my point that it did have, because you said they started slowly, which implies they lost some points due to them getting accustomed to their new pitch.

Liverpool finished 2nd in CL, so going by your logic that automatically makes them 2nd best team in whole Europe, right?

 

[roonster09]

Well if he's passing to the middle of the pitch then he's obviously not passing it to a winger/fullback and instead passing it into a contested area of the pitch. It's worth pointing out that as far as i'm aware these are successful passes. Inaccurate passes aren't logged in chalkboard (which is annoying). That's why I used the general stats in the end as there was no way of counting inaccurate long ones at least on Whoscored anyway. Not sure if there's another chalkboard site that does log it?

I think it includes total passes attempted. For example check one of the defenders total passes attempted and numbers displayed in chalkboard, it matches. I just checked Lindelof, Smalling, Pogba number for Palace game, it was same in both places. In Chalkboard they add set pieces also if i'm not wrong.

Obviously if keeper is passing to middle he isn't passing it to fullback but if he is keeping it on ground then I don't know whether it's just long passes or hoofing. That's what I'm saying from my first post, that long ball is way too vague and generic term in whoscored site.

 

[UncleBob]

I already said we should have more points. My point is that if we want to see progress from last season in terms of how we play then we need width and build up from the back.

What do you mean neither of them play on the right? Those are the two most used players coming off the right. I am asking you who was the second player if it was not a winger?

Mourinho doesn't build up from the back.

Coming off the right and playing on the right isn't the same thing, neither of them are wide players.

How many times have we signed Gaitan ?

Why have we gone from having a functional team, finishing second, to having a dysfunctional team after strengthening the same team that finished second

 

[haram]

So if Spurs had the same amount of points from home game like Liverpool, it means Spurs adjusted to Wembley quickly? But then again by trying to make a point that them playing on Wembley had nothing to do with them finishing under us in the league you've actually confirmed my point that it did have, because you said they started slowly, which implies they lost some points due to them getting accustomed to their new pitch.

Liverpool finished 2nd in CL, so going by your logic that automatically makes them 2nd best team in whole Europe, right?

We played Spurs three times last season, we won two games, lost one and finished above them. In fact by the time the semi came around they were just fine at Wembley and everyone was mad that they were practically playing at home. The Wembley effect was minimal. They drew two games to Burnley and Swansea at the start of the season and were fine after that.

No it doesn’t make them the second best team in Europe because when people discuss the league tables they always say the table doesnt lie. You play everyone twice. We were second the entire season. That’s not the same as a knockout competition.

 

[Ish]

Which proper wingers did he ask for during the summer ? You don't lose big dimensions, you don't regress badly, at worst you should be stuck at status quo

Aye, I don't think Spurs made 1 signing in the summer? Unless I'm horribly mistaken.

 

[Johan07]

I think we need to sign defenders and wingers regardless of the manager. I do not think any other manager does much better with this side. Granted, we should have more points than we do this season, we shouldnt be drawing to Palace for example. When you lack width and defenders which are comfortable on the ball it gets very difficult to build and link play. It does heavily impact the team as a whole.

When we collect 81 points, finish 2nd and reach a domestic cup final, the manager should be backed with players that can help the team add more dimensions. That’s clearly width and build up.



Well the ones we know about are Willian and Perisic. He wanted fullbacks as well. We badly need width, everyone can see it. Obviously he wanted defenders as well and wants better build up from deeper areas. Something both Willian and Perisic can help with as well.

This is just not true. Mourinho is on record saying we were not signing another attacking player last summer after getting Sanchez.
For example: https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/man...the-summer-mourinho/n9bg4zc6wfmf11nqc9gqe2528
If we had feelers out for Willian or Perisic it was in case of Martial leaving. Thank god that did not happen.

 

[Fracture90]

Neither of them play on the right.

You're just throwing out claim after claim after claim after claim after claim, going from one claim to the other.

Probably this, probably that, probably probably probably

Why have we gone from looking like mounting a title challenge to looking like midtable team, with what should arguably be a better equipped team ? Why aren't the same players who brought us 2nd place last season progressing. It's not because we didn't sign player y 1,5 year ago.

Asking the real question here.

 

[haram]

Mourinho doesn't build up from the back.

Coming off the right and playing on the right isn't the same thing, neither of them are wide players.

How many times have we signed Gaitan ?

Why have we gone from having a functional team, finishing second, to having a dysfunctional team after strengthening the same team that finished second

Every team needs to build up from deep in some way. Just because he doesn’t do it like Pep doesn’t mean he doesn’t use build up. It’s the first line of your team, of course they need to be able to use the ball and transition it. Fellaini, McTominay, Herrera and even Pogba have picked up false CB positions this season alone.

You still wont name the second position. Most likely because you know it was a winger.

 

[haram]

This is just not true. Mourinho is on record saying we were not signing another attacking player last summer after getting Sanchez.
For example: https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/man...the-summer-mourinho/n9bg4zc6wfmf11nqc9gqe2528
If we had feelers out for Willian or Perisic it was in case of Martial leaving. Thank god that did not happen.

I already adressed that. Mourinho said he wanted two players before deadline day, so please tell me who the second player was knowing we were linked with Willian all summer and that we have a gaping hole at RW.

 

[Cassidy]

I already adressed that. Mourinho said he wanted two players before deadline day, so please tell me who the second player was knowing we were linked with Willian all summer and that we have a gaping hole at RW.

Another CB?

 

[Johan07]

I already adressed that. Mourinho said he wanted two players before deadline day, so please tell me who the second player was knowing we were linked with Willian all summer and that we have a gaping hole at RW.

I have no idea and I question that Mourinho even said that.
Btw: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...jose-mourinho-no-summer-signing-a8193761.html
Here are the entire quotes. I rather believe Mourinho himself.

 

[KirkDuyt]

We were the 2nd best team in the league last season, fact. The table never lies.

Why people are still going on about last season I don't know though, move on, focus on the current mess.

I was the 2nd best bowler in our company's outing last week. I was pissed as feck. I'm the Manchester United of company bowling, I want to come in 1st or bust.

Or so I thought, guess I'm now the Manchester City of company bowling.

 

[Fracture90]

We played Spurs three times last season, we won two games, lost one and finished above them. In fact by the time the semi came around they were just fine at Wembley and everyone was mad that they were practically playing at home. The Wembley effect was minimal. They drew two games to Burnley and Swansea at the start of the season and were fine after that.

No it doesn’t make them the second best team in Europe because when people discuss the league tables they always say the table doesnt lie. You play everyone twice. We were second the entire season. That’s not the same as a knockout competition.

I'm actually baffled by your inability to grasp the implications of a high pressing team having to play on bigger pitch out all of a sudden.

Even tho you're trying to downplay the impact Spurs having playing on Wembley, if they had won those 2 opening home games (as it was expected) it would have put them on a same point tally as us come end of the season, but probably with better GD so they'd be finishing 2nd, right?

Well one can also say that there's more pressure playing in CL because mistakes in KO phase mean your probably out, whilst in the league it's much easier to compensate for dropped points, won't you agree?

 

[haram]

I have no idea and I question that Mourinho even said that.
Btw: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...jose-mourinho-no-summer-signing-a8193761.html
Here are the entire quotes. I rather believe Mourinho himself.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....man-list-months-ago-mourinho-laments-uniteds/

 

[Fracture90]

@haram I'm curious, would have you have traded our 2nd place league finish and a crack at Chelsea in FA Cup for a 4th place league finish and a crack at Real Madrid in UCL final?

 

[sunama]

As he said. Stats are for people who don’t know football lol.

I’ve seen shit football throughout those 3 years. Free reign or not.

In that case, lets delve into our football knowledge.

When Jose was hired, we knew what we were getting. A serial winner, but someone who isn't known for free flowing football.
This was something that most of us accepted because he arrived at a time when most of us accepted that we needed to start winning - the league, in particular.
Woodward hired him as he was a serial winner - someone who knew how to take teams to the top.
Last season we got 2nd in the league - the highest placing since SAF retired.

Now, if style of football is the most important factor, then perhaps you'd want us to hire Wenger? We won't win anything, but the games we do win, we'll play attractive football. Right?
And for those of you who'd like this to happen, just as Arsenal fans how they felt after many years of that kind of football.

Of course, there are some who will get really greedy and say that they want both. Well, I'd like to eat chocolate cake all day and have a body like a Greek God. That ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

For me, at the current stage of our "cycle", winning is all I require. After a few years of winning, I'll demand more (ie. more attractive football).

 

[haram]

I'm actually baffled by your inability to grasp the implications of a high pressing team having to play on bigger pitch out all of a sudden.

Even tho you're trying to downplay the impact Spurs having playing on Wembley, if they had won those 2 opening home games (as it was expected) it would have put them on a same point tally as us come end of the season, but probably with better GD so they'd be finishing 2nd, right?

Well one can also say that there's more pressure playing in CL because mistakes in KO phase mean your probably out, whilst in the league it's much easier to compensate for dropped points, won't you agree?

I am aware of the bigger pitch and the way they press. The effect was at the start and not an entire season like you are trying to make out. They were fine for the vast majority of the season. It’s such a shit excuse for them finishing behind is. We played three times and we beat them twice and finished above them, end of that discussion already.

No. Knock out competition is not the same as the league. League table doesnt lie. We were second the entire season and were the second best team. Im done with this.

 

[Johan07]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....man-list-months-ago-mourinho-laments-uniteds/

You understand that there is no merit/ground for your initial argument that Mourinho was denied a RW by the club in those quotes? You just made that up yourself.

 

[UncleBob]

Last season we got 2nd in the league - the highest placing since SAF retired.

Is that trophy on display at Old Trafford ? Haven't seen it.

 

[haram]

You understand that there is no merit/ground for your initial argument that Mourinho was denied a RW by the club in those quotes? You just made that up yourself.

I am asking who is the second player. If the first player is a CB, we have been linked with Willian all summer, we signed a RB and a CM and we have a gaping hole at RW. People need to stop being argumentative for the sake of it and look at it logically. I am saying it was most probably a RW he wanted. Nothing contreversial about that line of thinking.

 

[UncleBob]

Every team needs to build up from deep in some way. Just because he doesn’t do it like Pep doesn’t mean he doesn’t use build up. It’s the first line of your team, of course they need to be able to use the ball and transition it. Fellaini, McTominay, Herrera and even Pogba have picked up false CB positions this season alone.

You still wont name the second position. Most likely because you know it was a winger.

Neither of this explains the regression, which is the entire point. And the second player doesn't have to be a winger, you want to believe it's a winger which is obviously up to you.

 

[UncleBob]

I am asking who is the second player. If the first player is a CB, we have been linked with Willian all summer, we signed a RB and a CM and we have a gaping hole at RW. People need to stop being argumentative for the sake of it and look at it logically. I am saying it was most probably a RW he wanted. Nothing contreversial about that line of thinking.

We were also linked with Gaitain for about 8 years. Being linked with someone doesn't mean we're actually interested.

 

[Mainoldo]

In that case, lets delve into our football knowledge.

When Jose was hired, we knew what we were getting. A serial winner, but someone who isn't known for free flowing football.
This was something that most of us accepted because he arrived at a time when most of us accepted that we needed to start winning - the league, in particular.
Woodward hired him as he was a serial winner - someone who knew how to take teams to the top.
Last season we got 2nd in the league - the highest placing since SAF retired.

Now, if style of football is the most important factor, then perhaps you'd want us to hire Wenger? We won't win anything, but the games we do win, we'll play attractive football. Right?
And for those of you who'd like this to happen, just as Arsenal fans how they felt after many years of that kind of football.

Of course, there are some who will get really greedy and say that they want both. Well, I'd like to eat chocolate cake all day and have a body like a Greek God. That ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

For me, at the current stage of our "cycle", winning is all I require. After a few years of winning, I'll demand more (ie. more attractive football).

Are you being serious? The man will be here 3 seasons and has zero major trophies. He’s not doing what he says on the tin and like most scenarios when this happens with him. He gets sacked. Stuff his excuses and your backing of it.

 

[Fracture90]

I am aware of the bigger pitch and the way they press. The effect was at the start and not an entire season like you are trying to make out. They were fine for the vast majority of the season. It’s such a shit excuse for them finishing behind is. We played three times and we beat them twice and finished above them, end of that discussion already.

No. Knock out competition is not the same as the league. League table doesnt lie. We were second the entire season and were the second best team. Im done with this.

Mighty selective in which points we gonna address and which ones we gonna ignore, aren't we? How convenient for you to ignore how those 4 dropped points due to them not being accustomed to the new pitch would have put them ahead of us in the final standings.

And who said anything about them being the same? I'm just pointing out that there's less room for mistake in CL considering it's a KO stage against some of the best teams in the world, even group stage can be tricky, just look at the groups Spurs and Liverpool are in? Heck even we got somewhat of a nasty group ourselves.

 

[haram]

We were also linked with Gaitain for about 8 years. Being linked with someone doesn't mean we're actually interested.

You’re just being obtuse for the sake of it, what’s the point of this? Yeah ok Mourinho didn't want to add width to this team by targeting Willian and Perisic. Ok.

Im done with this discussion.

 

[Johan07]

I am asking who is the second player. If the first player is a CB, we have been linked with Willian all summer, we signed a RB and a CM and we have a gaping hole at RW. People need to stop being argumentative for the sake of it and look at it logically. I am saying it was most probably a RW he wanted. Nothing contreversial about that line of thinking.

But it is since we were stacked with attacking players already. And Mourinho had already stated he was very happy with these players.
Also: Mourinho was very well aware of that he had used whatever wiggle room we had with our wage budget when we signed Alexis. What he says in February is actually OK, now I got my attacking signing a couple of months early, thanks and now we are done there for the summer.
There is no logic about us buying another forward if it does not mean that Mourinho wanted to get rid of another one to accomplish it. Which he had to if it was going to be an expensive one wage-wise.
If it was Martial that was supposed to be sacrificed, which much points to, I will concede that you might be correct. But again: thank God for that not happening. But I dont think that was the case.
There is more logic in that Mourinho might have wanted a CB and a CM. Its in line with what he stated after the Alexis transfer. It´s also weird that we went into this season with two young unproven prospects in Pereira and McTominay as squad depth at CM. I think its one more than Mourinho wanted.
So in my mind Mourinho wanted a CB and a CM, if we were getting another attacking player was always dependant on someone leaving first.
And this is all speculation, but your arguments does not hold up for a statement that you present as fact and then blame the club for.

 

[MrBest]

I had a dream last night that Jose got sacked and Giggs was interim manager. His first game against Southampton and he droppes a load of players, with only Rashford Martial Dalot and Lindeloff starting. The rest of players were made up from the academy (cannot remember who) and we comfortably won 4-0. We played amazing attacking football and we should of won by more but everyone was happy with the way we played. I was then woken up ... if dreams came true (just jose leaving for me), it would make Xmas more exciting as for me, its all about football. I am not looking forward to the next month especially with Liverpool and Arsenal to play. We could find ourselves hanging around 10th.

 

[Canagel]

Every team needs to build up from deep in some way. Just because he doesn’t do it like Pep doesn’t mean he doesn’t use build up. It’s the first line of your team, of course they need to be able to use the ball and transition it. Fellaini, McTominay, Herrera and even Pogba have picked up false CB positions this season alone.

You still wont name the second position. Most likely because you know it was a winger.

If he cares so much about building up from back why did he sell Blind? Our best defender in that regard. And keep the likes of Jones/Rojo around.