If we finish 4th, should Ole get the job full time? [Poll added]

[red thru&thru]

I want to see us in the bigger games first. Obviously we could lose these game, that's not the issue for me. I would like to see how we set up tactically and how we play. If we lose due to individual errors, we can't really blame the management. However, if we lose because of the way set up (negative football like under Jose), then I'd have an issue.

We have the players to go toe-to-toe with any of the teams in the PL. What will be interesting to see is, how we set up against the bigger teams, especially as majority of these game, we'll be at OT.

 

[red thru&thru]

Yes but who handles the recruitment will be more important though. We gave some imbeciles lots of money for our squad to still have glaring weaknesses.

Apparently, listening from a Duncan Castles podcast, Ole was doing some dodgy stuff when recruiting for Cardiff and Molde, I think. Something along the lines of, he had a vetted interest in a player agency and he was only getting players from that agency to line his pockets etc.

So to answer your question, hopefully Ole is not in charge of recruiting!

 

[Kag]

Classic Cafe example of approach versus outcome.

Solskjaer could finish sixth and, if the football was headed in a very positive direction, then he would be well in the frame.

He could finish second while playing shit on a stick football that is destined to fail (remind you of anyone?) and therefore not merit the job. As I said when arguing for Mourinho’s dismissal back in May.

The ideal scenario is that Ole continues to win matches and we do so in this positive, attacking style. I still think there will be bumps in the road, and nothing is guaranteed, but a man can dream.

 

[sullydnl]

Classic Cafe example of approach versus outcome.

Solskjaer could finish sixth and, if the football was headed in a very positive direction, then he would be well in the frame.

He could finish second while playing shit on a stick football that is destined to fail (remind you of anyone?) and therefore not merit the job. As I said when arguing for Mourinho’s dismissal back in May.

The ideal scenario is that Ole continues to win matches and we do so in this positive, attacking style. I still think there will be bumps in the road, and nothing is guaranteed, but a man can dream.

Yep. Top four on its own doesn't mean much without knowing how he does it.

Plus there's the CL to judge him on to. I don't see why that would be ignored, whether he gets top four or not.

 

[rpg]

If we finish top 4, Woodward wouldnt be getting a new manager. You wonder how people will get on this if the new guy couldnt perform as good as Ole.

 

[Jev]

I voted yes but it depends whether or not we can get Poch. He's my first-choice regardless but if he decides to stay at Spurs (which is quite likely) and we continue our resurgence under Ole, I'd be in favour of him getting the nod.

 

[Water Melon]

Apparently, listening from a Duncan Castles podcast, Ole was doing some dodgy stuff when recruiting for Cardiff and Molde, I think. Something along the lines of, he had a vetted interest in a player agency and he was only getting players from that agency to line his pockets etc.

So to answer your question, hopefully Ole is not in charge of recruiting!

Is this a rumour or a well documented fact. If the latter, then Ole could find himself in trouble.

 

[AOAARON]

Getting fourth will be a miracle given you need two other teams above you to slip up (with both of those clubs having one of Aubameyang and Hazard and more settled managers) and you would need to maintain this absolutely ridiculous form of near straight wins.

I'm not saying its impossible, because with Ole annoyingly everything seems possible. But does that really have to be the criteria for him staying at the club? It seems like a very very high bar which I feel if Poch was in charge of United now, he would not need to abide by for his first 6 months at a club.

Why not throw a champions league win into the pre-requisite for keeping Ole too?

 

[ChaddyP]

No, because we wouldn't want a Di Matteo situation repeating itself. I'd go all out for Allegri tbh- on and off the pitch he's everything you'd want in a Manchester United Manager.

I understand this sentiment I really do. But he (RDM) was a bit different. I honestly want to say he fluked the champions league using a very pragmatic defensive strategy and riding on the form of Drogba and luck. He was poor in the league and only got the job because he won the CL. For ole to get top 4 it would have to be more than luck. It's an entire half season where he will have to go on title winning form to achieve it. If he can do that for 6 months while playing attacking beautiful football then he should be a contender for the job and not seen as another Di Mateo. He shouldn't be a contender if we fluke the FA cup or even the CL while finishing 6th. If we go on to get top 4 getting high 40 points from January to season end playing great and get some. Very good cup runs then I think its a different situation than what Chelsea found themselves in and his hat should be in the ring

 

[Trizy]

Undecided. Want to see how he does against the big guns. In theory we could finish top 4 without beating any top teayms.

 

[royboy16]

Its a decision to be made. If we are defo going all out for Poch, then the reason its a tough one is because it might be the only time we could get Poch.

However if we get him and it doesnt work out, I reckon we could still get Ole.
But if we appoint Ole, and it doesnt work out, then I dont think we can get Poch (if that makes sense)

I do hope we are thinking this through and not making hasty decisions. For Ole though, I think this was a good run of 4 games to start with. Wanna see how he deals with the big games (still got everybody within top 5 to play). And of course the CL games still to go.

Well that's the beauty of him having nearly 6 months with us as he will get time to play all the top teams,have some champions league,FA cup experience and a fight for a top 4 spot.It should give us a good idea if he's a good fit for us or not.
I like what I see so far but I'm sitting on the fence til May to see how it pans out.

 

[OldPop]

Yes, if we finish top 4 then he has really proven that he can get the most out of the players we have and that he tactically copes with opponents of different quality. In order to win the league or the major international matches, only player reinforcements are needed in that case in my opinion.

If so, it would be madness not to offer him the job if it's not that he doesn't want it, or that he cannot take it for any reason. Don't think we can be absolutely sure that there may be such reasons.

 

[bonothom]

Definetly. I actually think if he achieves 75+ points this season but misses out on 4th he should still get the job because of how far behind United were when he started. That would be 43+ points from half a season which is title challenging form. So to get to 75+ we need 13 wins or 12 wins and a couple of draws from the 17 games we have left. I'm my mind that's enough for Ole to get a 2 year deal but with a director of football handling transfers etc.

 

[ErranMorad]

Getting the top 4 is not the threshold for me. I would give him the job if we show constant improvement and our players play like a team for the rest of the season. Jose left us too far behind the eight ball for it to be the minimum criteria for me. If it happens good, if we fail while giving it our best shot, that'll be good enough for me.

We have had 5 1/2 seasons of Manchester United looking like a bunch of individuals thrown in on the field. This is the first time I feel like we are a team. A bunch of players helping each other out in order to succeed collectively. This is the first time that some of our world class players look like actual world class players. This is the first time when it looks like we care about our game rather than catering to the opponents. If this continues for the rest of the season then Ole can have the job.

He is such an impressive guy. It's a refreshing change to hear the gaffer talk about the players & staff more than himself. It's nice to hear the manager praising everyone else rather than bleating his own horn every time he opens his gob. It has gone from 'me,me,me' to 'us'. He is the first guy who gets the club and respects it's traditions. For a foreigner like me following United, he has brought back the romance that I have missed since Sir Alex retired.

Poch, Zidane, Jardim, Rose or Blanc - all seem like good choices. So did Van Gaal and Jose at the time. However, no one comes with a guarantee. If Ole shows enough progress while playing good football for the rest of the season, then I would have no qualms giving him the job ahead of those guys.

 

[red thru&thru]

Is this a rumour or a well documented fact. If the latter, then Ole could find himself in trouble.

It wasn't a rumour. It was facts. Castles did mention that Ole had to cut ties with the company or something but basically, he had to no longer be associated with the company.

 

[keithsingleton]

Let me get this straight. So if Solskjaer manages to get top 4, you want to sack him and the coaches around him, bring in an unknown quantity because 'Poch is the man', along with his coaches so we can be more like Tottenham?

You do realise Solskjaer has won more silverware and has more experience than Poch? As for against the top 6 records, Tottenham's is woeful, especially away from home.

Also, £40m just to speak to Poch and what's the guarantee he wouldn't want to go to Madrid at some point?

We're better off signing Ole and letting Poch go to Madrid, then when they sack him before the end of the season, we'll have the option to pick him up if Solskjaer doesn't work out. At the moment, Solskjaer is the least risk and highest reward option.

Who mentioned sacked?? We've played 4 games under Ole. It's a marathon not a sprint. Granted it's been good to watch but Ole is not proven, it's a quick fix and that is all. What has Ole done as a manager?? feck ALL!! For the greatest/best club in the world it simply isn't exceptable for a United manager.

You mention Silverware?? Solskjaer got same silverware as Poch (( Nothing as a manager )) However, what Poch has done with limited funds is quite astonishing. What could he do with proper funds that we have?? Levy such a tight cnut Spurs will only ever be a top 4/6 team whilst he's at the club.

Much as it hurts to say it no ex United player is proven as a manager to fill the job at Manchester United. END OF.

 

[moodyred]

Sure. Why not?

 

[keithsingleton]

The worship for Pochettino in this forum never ceases to amaze me. You would think that he is Sir Matt Busby from some of the posts here. Where in fact, he has yet to win a single trophy despite managing for more than a decade.

Only reason why is Levy won't give him money to make them better than a top 4/6 team. Poch plays the United way and deserves a chance at United.

 

[crossy1686]

Who mentioned sacked?? We've played 4 games under Ole. It's a marathon not a sprint. Granted it's been good to watch but Ole is not proven, it's a quick fix and that is all. What has Ole done as a manager?? feck ALL!! For the greatest/best club in the world it simply isn't exceptable for a United manager.

You mention Silverware?? Solskjaer got same silverware as Poch (( Nothing as a manager )) However, what Poch has done with limited funds is quite astonishing. What could he do with proper funds that we have?? Levy such a tight cnut Spurs will only ever be a top 4/6 team whilst he's at the club.

Much as it hurts to say it no ex United player is proven as a manager to fill the job at Manchester United. END OF.

First of all, you're wrong. He's won the reserve league and two titles in a one team league with a team that have never won the league before in their history. That's more than Poch has won, ever.

I'm sure would spend as much as he's allowed to spend, like most managers. Levy has forced his hand with players he's allowed to have but they're bought well and young over the years, hardly anything to do with Poch and more the set up behind the manager. Has Poch actually bought anyone himself? Questions should be asked.

 

[Crackers]

I can't make up my mind. If we somehow get 4th place, I'll be ecstatic, and it'll be well deserved. I love Ole and I really want him to succeed. But we've failed so much the past few years with managerial appointments, I'd hate for us to get it wrong and Ole to fail. It'd be awful. Basically, I want him to succeed, but if he gets the job permanently the stakes would be much higher as he's a United legend.

 

[bosnian_red]

Even if we dont get top 4 there are plenty of scenarios where I hope Ole keeps the job. If he manages to keep it up, show that this upturn in form and performances isnt just because he isnt Mourinho, then i hope he gets the job. The way he talks, acts, holds himself and the way we set our to play is everything a Manchester United manager should do. All the players seem together and playing as a team. You cant ask for any more.

People get way too obsessed with "proven" managers. It's not about that. It's about getting the right manager for your club. Maybe the best possible manager for Manchester United right now is in fact Ole. Just like Zidane was perfect for Real Madrid. Ole isnt so naive to think he can do everything on his own, he has already shown he can delegate and his awareness to bring in Phelan right away. We wont win every game this season of course. It doesnt even have to come down to winning a trophy or getting top 4. If we keep up the way weve been going, then he absolutely should get the job.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I personally think managing top footballers is about man-management. There are many footballing brains around the manager to help coach players. Early days yet but the core of the players seem to have taken to Ole. Even our high profile subs were looking happy on the bench yesterday.

It’s a trump card Solskjaer has. He was arguably the best example in the history of the game on how to have the right attitude as a sub. It won him multiple titles and he learned enough that he’s now the manager of the biggest club in the world. There’s simply no excuse from a player to be sulking if they are a sub, it just won’t fly with Ole.

 

[Honest John]

Last 10 years 4th Place Points

08/09 - Arsenal - 72
09/10 - Spurs - 70
10/11 - Arsenal - 68
11/12 - Spurs - 69
12/13 - Arsenal - 73
13/14 - Arsenal - 79
14/15 - United - 70
15/16 - City - 66
16/17 - Liverpool - 76
17/18 - Liverpool - 75

Ave 71.8 points for 4th place.

Worse case - based on the above, 79 points.

So Ole needs 41 points from a possible 51 to be almost sure of 4th or better.

Average losses for 4th place teams in a season is 7.6 games. So lets say we do well and only lose 2 more games.

That means we need 41 points from 45.

We would need to win 13 more games and draw the other 2

P38 W24 D7 L7

Tall order.

 

[redDNA]

When it comes to appointing a manager there are no guarantees of success,and failure.Who would have thought that LVG and Muorinho would fail spectacularly at United prior to their appointments?Or a green horn like Zidane achieving huge successes that even the greatest manager Sir Alex could not achieve?

Ole may achieve top 4 and gets appointed and fails spectacularly,and it will look stupid that an 'experienced manager like Poch was overlooked.

Ole may achieve top 4,Poch gets appointed and fails ,it will look stupid that a manager who achieved such feat ,plays the united way and knows the club was overlooked.

Ole may achieve achieve top 4,gets the job and do well.Then,it will be 'a master stroke' from the management.Or he may achieve top 4,Poch getys the job and does well.

Whoever,gets the job I hope the keep the assistants.Fergie had good background members of staff which Moyes binned as soon as he was appointed.

Successes and failures are not guaranteed here.

 

[bosnian_red]

Actually I have a feeling that if we dont give Ole the job itll be a huge mistake in line with the shit weve done the last 5 years. Everything just feels "right" right now. Theres every chance that Ole does a really good job and has a great relationship with everyone, but then Woodward decides to go for the big name and we run into the same problems plus with the players being annoyed at Ole not keeping his job. Its early days but I really hope the owners have the balls to give it to him full time if we keep this up even if we end the season with no top 4 (Mourinho left us too far adrift).

 

[MadMike]

Who mentioned sacked?? We've played 4 games under Ole. It's a marathon not a sprint. Granted it's been good to watch but Ole is not proven, it's a quick fix and that is all. What has Ole done as a manager?? feck ALL!! For the greatest/best club in the world it simply isn't exceptable for a United manager.

You mention Silverware?? Solskjaer got same silverware as Poch (( Nothing as a manager )) However, what Poch has done with limited funds is quite astonishing. What could he do with proper funds that we have?? Levy such a tight cnut Spurs will only ever be a top 4/6 team whilst he's at the club.

Much as it hurts to say it no ex United player is proven as a manager to fill the job at Manchester United. END OF.

Completely irrational arguments all over the place. Why would I care if he’s won nothing elsewhere in management, if it works here for him? Ultimately that’s what we need. A manager that works for United. Van Gaal and (especially) Mourinho have achieved things Poch couldn’t ever dream of, yet they couldn’t work it out here.

Zidane went from nowhere in management, to 3 CLs and a La Liga title. I’m pretty sure RM are very happy with how he did all things considered. This obsession with someone proven is utterly bonkers when “proven” status is no guarantee for success here.

You don’t throw away a manager that connects and works well with the players, that produces marked improvement in style of football and results, to replace him with some “proven” fella that might not even achieve that basic thing.

 

[Revan]

Only reason why is Levy won't give him money to make them better than a top 4/6 team. Poch plays the United way and deserves a chance at United.

He has a very good team which is capable of winning trophies.

 

[Stratis]

For him to get 4th place would be an achievement in itself considers the circumstances when he first walked through the door. Moral was low, players had no confidence and it just seemed like it was going to be a downward spiral no matter who came in as the caretaker.

I will stick my neck out and say it would be mildly insulting to not offer him at least a full season if he carries us over the 4th place line and gets us champions league football next season.

If all goes well and he beds himself into the roll we have a manager who adores Man Utd and will always want what’s best for the club which is worth its weight in gold these days.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I'm sick and tired of year in year out race for top 4. To make matter worse, we were always the outsider for top 4 and usually missed it with very small margins.

This year we are at the worst position ever in the race for top 4. If we can get top 4, I say give the job to Ole.

 

[Minimalist]

Let's just say I'll probably be annoyed if we finish 4th while continuing to play like this and we hire the bloke from Spurs who's won nothing. And I rate Pochettino, but I just don't see how he's the silver bullet here. I'd honestly rather Zidane if we're going for a new coach.

We need a DoF more to the point. The days of a manager lasting more than 3-5 seasons is gone. Get someone in to direct the future transfers and let a coach like Ole get the best out of the squad.

 

[gza the genius]

Depends on who else is obtainable. If we can get Pochettino or someone similar then we should go all out for them regardless of what happens this season. If our top couple of choices aren't available and Ole gets us top 4 he should definitely get the position.

 

[Ekeke]

No. That would be the perfect time to hire a top manager

 

[Johan07]

Is this a rumour or a well documented fact. If the latter, then Ole could find himself in trouble.

His involvment with Jim Solbakken is pretty well documented and admittedly does not paint him in the best light. So far as I know he has not been found guilty of anything though. You can use google translate and read this article from the excellent Norwegian football magazine Josimar. Which i freely admit it is even if I am Swedish:
http://www.josimar.no/artikler/kalenderluke-13-dobbeltagenten/2061/

 

[hocane]

Chelsea were 11 points ahead when he took over.

If he manages to get into the top 4 it would be a sensational achievment.

 

[roseguy64]

I believe Ole is learning more the more games he's in charge. You can sense that through watching his body language on the side lines, the way he conducts himself in pre and post match pressers etc. He's been given the opportunity to learn his trade in the best possible way and he's responding. If at the end of the season he succeeds in getting us 4th spot, then nobody could be dissappointed with that. I think we could all class that as an achievement considering how the situation was when he came in. Add to that the extra experience he would gain from now to the end of the season, and the positivity from the players, then I see no reason not to offer him the job. What would we do otherwise? Let him go so some other top club can snap him up. One thing would be for sure. He wouldn't be going back to Norway!

He's not a rookie. He's won league titles before as a manager.

 

[doomy20]

If we finish TOP4 and Ole will not be allowed to continue, the new permanent manager will have a very tough situation from day 1 on. Fanbase will love Ole plus a new "star" manager like Zidane will have heavy expectation and pressure on his shoulders too.

 

[Muppetry_man]

I believe we need to see how the season will pan out and how we will play vs top 6 in the big games. The topic assumes if we lose vs PSG, problem is not if we lose, but how we lose if we do so.

For me good games vs top 6 and enjoyable football for the rest season it's going to convince me it has to be between Poch and OGS at the end. There are many factors also who is going to be our DOF? Are we going to sign defender in January and if we do can OGS implement him quickly in the coming months so he has instant impact on the pitch? Also the game vs PSG what style of football do we play? Was it a close defeat or was it by a landslide? Also OGS is a pupil of SAF he will know that picking a FA cup at the end is also good achievement when you can't compete for the League.

All in all plenty of time to see if he is the right man, but I'm starting to buy into the idea "It's his job to lose".

 

[The Irish Connection]

Absolutely. The bench is brilliant to look at: all we’re missing is fergie. Mick phelan, McKenna, carrick and a director of football would be great. But, obviously, a long way to go, and let’s just take it game by game now and enjoy it as much as possible for a few months.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Let’s just say, before Ole arrived, we all think finishing top 4 would be unachievable, and we all got depressed with the way we played football. So should Ole get the job if he change that? Absolutely for me, it’s really no brainer.

 

[JK-27]

We really shouldn't judge this until the end of the season, it's been 4 games only and we've played some pretty poor teams so far. It'll be much easier to see at the end of the season how good Ole has done.

However, the club have a clear plan (supposedly, although the 3 past plans didn't work that well), which is bringing in an new manager in the summer, and they have publicly stated that intent. For Ole to become permanent manager he needs to win either the CL (unlikely) or FA Cup (more likely). A top 4 finish could be as much down to Arsenal and Chelsea screwing up rather than us suddenly becoming contenders.

History has shown with Di Matteo at Chelsea that a good interim manager does not automatically equate to a good permanent manager. Ole's doing great so far, but he does not have any managerial Premier League or even Championship pedigree. Our long term plan should be to get a top manager who has pedigree, otherwise this cycle could continue.