It is and can be both
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 3
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- 5
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Well yes, that's what I think too.
This exchange began with @RedStarUnited comparing Lukaku's goalscoring unfavourably with Ibrahimovic's though. Once you accept that the team was struggling to create anything generally then that comparison becomes rather unfair, even if Lukaku also could also have created more for himself within that. It's not really comparing like for like.
Either be accepts being second choice or there's a West Ham out there more than willing to take him. Him as a lone striker is the recipe for failure.
Ibra missed loads of chances and if he had converted half of those he missed we would have made the top 4 spot too. But Ibra brings a lot more to the game than Lukaku. His hold up play and the way he brings other players into the game is something that Lukaku cannot ever do. And Ibra does get into those positions where he can get those chances. Lukaku has not been doing this.
It is a bit like in cricket where a fielder goes for a hard catch and if he doesn't catch it lots of people will say it was a dropped catch. On the other hand if the fielder does not go for it then they never talk about the dropped catch because he never reached the ball.
The same with Lukaku. He does not go for it and then it is not a chance because he never reached the ball and it becomes a bad pass.
It is a bit like in cricket where a fielder goes for a hard catch and if he doesn't catch it lots of people will say it was a dropped catch. On the other hand if the fielder does not go for it then they never talk about the dropped catch because he never reached the ball.
The same with Lukaku. He does not go for it and then it is not a chance because he never reached the ball and it becomes a bad pass.
His misses aren't the biggest problem, his clumsiness when in good positions which would otherwise lead to a goalscoring opportunity for a team mate is. Like the situation where he miscontrolled but could have played in Sanchez 1 on 1 with the keeper. He's a good striker but that part of his game keeps him from being considered a top player.
You could understand that Everton team being built around a guy who can score goals at that level.
Do you really suggest United should be built around Lukaku ?
They don't. Anyone watching PL regularly know that that the midtable and bottom of the table teams have become worse in the last years than previously, and the gap between them and the top 6 have become huge that the 6th position team is barely threatened to lose his position. Anyone who watch United regularly know that the midtable teams know how to play against us, since we don't have enough width, they congest the middle as much as possible.while waiting on the counter. You're actually the one lying here.
Lukaku had scored 9 goals in his first 2 months last season, then went on the entire season to score 16 goals only in about 10 months, that's about 1 or 2 goals per month rate, awful rate for an elite striker and proves he's struggling aganist these kind of teams whatever you spin it out. Those 34 goals came in nearly 60 matches, that's 1/2 goal rate against these teams, destroying my arse. At least provide the number of matches and rate etc.
Which top striker in an elite club is struggling to keep a ball under close control, has a terrible first touch and can't hold ball under pressure and is only good in running the channels in space ? These are basic stuff for any top striker, whatever style of play they're playing, and ironically Rashford and Martial can do it pretty well. The fact we always look more fluid without him proves he's part of the problem of not creating enough chances, as I said, the definition of chances for Lukaku is flawed.
Lukaku made a mess of his first one vs one yesterday. Took the second opportunity well. However, he got the chance to redeem himself against Reading. Say we're playing one of the top 5 teams, it is quite likely he won't get another chance like that. Imagine that miss cost us points? This is the problem with him at this level. Technique is super important, which at his age I doubt he'll improve, or enough to be consistently effective for United.
Yesterday, apart from his goal, I can't point to much more that he did.
I sincerely hope we don't invest too much more in him. I just cannot see it working out long term.
The other thing is if Rash keeps improving, I don't think he will be happy being back up, plus it's a hell of a lot of money for a back up player.
Imho Everton was just right for him. Not too much pressure there as well. Plus they are in desperate need of a striker so I would offload him.
Yesterday, apart from his goal, I can't point to much more that he did.
I sincerely hope we don't invest too much more in him. I just cannot see it working out long term.
The other thing is if Rash keeps improving, I don't think he will be happy being back up, plus it's a hell of a lot of money for a back up player.
Imho Everton was just right for him. Not too much pressure there as well. Plus they are in desperate need of a striker so I would offload him.
This is why I think he needs to either accept being second choice, or move on and be first choice somewhere else. He’ll score goals against the likes of Reading, Huddersfield and Newcastle, but if we’re 0-0 with PSG after 179 minutes, and he’s put through on goal, would you back him to score? What about Barcelona in the final? Those are the games where you need a striker who, frankly, is a level above Romelu Lukaku.
No, I couldn't back him to score against those teams (would be happy as hell if he pulled it off though!
).Very much doubt he would accept being 2nd best. I hope Ole has more sense than to keep him on for the whole 90 mins if he's stinking up the place. We just aren't as fluid with him playing. Super sub is a good option, but it's a lot of pay for that kind of role.
People get mixed up thinking Lukaku is a specialist against weaker teams. He's not, hes a specialist in being a striker in one of the weaker teams, where the opposition always comes out and leaves space for him to run in to. Playing at Manchester United teams don't come out and attack us much, they pack the middle of the pitch and the edge of the box because they know we struggle to break them down. In those situations Lukaku only really scores on the occasional break or from crosses, and he doesn't have the technical ability to consistently trouble top defenders with the ball on the ground. If anything these last few games of fast, fluid attacking football highlight how far off the technical level of the likes of Pogba, Rashford and Lingard he really is.
he could be the same as any striker in the EPL. Most strikers are of the same level or better than him. His first touch and his movements are so bad I am really surprised that he plays for Belgium. He does not do anything that Rashford does. He does not press half as much as Rashford and I do not think he can sprint like Rashford for 90 mins.
Any defender would prefer Lukaku to Rashford for sure. For a big man he does not use his physicality as well.
Any defender would prefer Lukaku to Rashford for sure. For a big man he does not use his physicality as well.
If you want that from your striker then Lukaku should be your first choice because he's the only one in the current squad capable of doing it.
Lukaku has been the focal point in the middle of the attack while Martial has spent most of his games out wide. Lukaku also played more under Mourinho, yet couldn't keep up with Martial's numbers. It's apples and oranges.
And one assists this season. You do now that assists can be one simple lay off, one ball headed down with his head and so on? Maybe a shot even. It really doesn't say much about his skills. You just need to watch the games to see he's not a genius of any kind.
There is nothing special about his runs. I've tried to watch him live at Old Trafford to see why he's always on his heels, and my conclusion is his lack of footballing brain. He's not dumb, but he's nearer to be dumb than some kind of genius on the pitch. He's a donkey. Someone like Emile Heskey is ten times smarter.
No I don't. He's scoring goals even in a disjointed lineup that hasnt started together this season. Do you think he'll struggle to score in the strongest 11? He's our top scorer FFS
So how has he scored so many goals?
Gifts?
It's the Van Nistelrooy situation again. He scored goals, he was probably the best finisher we've ever had, but as a team we were worse off with him. He didn't fit the kind of style we wanted to play because he didn't offer enough beyond the goals. Lukaku is obviously miles off the level of RVN but the similarities are clear.
I don't think you got the point of my post, Martial is having the best goalscoring season of his career and Lukaku is having one of his worst. Yet they still have similar numbers.
As I have said already, there is nothing of substance to point to which will prove Martial (or Rashford) is as good a goalscorer as Lukaku. They might end up being much better goalscorers, both are younger but the point I was making was that there is nothing to say that yet.
Probably has something to do with being their all time top scorer at 25, and their record scorer in the world cup ever.
I watched RVN. My comparison with Henry is lost on you, because Henry was more capable of the spectacular than RVN.
This is now even beyond reaching. If Lukaku scores a hattrick and the defense is poor enough to concede 5 times you'll blame Lukaku first because he should've contributed more in attack? When was the last time one of our players scored a hattrick and United still lost? How often do we concede 5 goals in one match?
Stop jumping the gun and use your head and try and understand why I brought up the RVN vs HENRY comparison. Im not directly comparing RVN and Lukaku, im comparing the types of goals RVN scored compared to Henry, and Henry scored more different types of goals, including long range belters, freekicks and spectacular out of nothing type of goals. So if Lukaku is being criticized for the types of goals he scores then im assuming you guys would've probably preferred Henry to RVN
He does what I used to expect of Ade Akinbiyi, Chris Kiwomya or Ian Ormondroyd. No more no less
Maybe it's me but never read anything other than he was a disruptive person in the dressing room and that's why RVN was sold. For me Rom will eventually start most games cause he does something not many can do consistently, score goals. Whilst lots of things are up for debate, his record isn't even though some on here will try to minimise it.
RVN and Henry were the best strikers in the EPL and probably in the world for 3-4 years. Henry's light shined for longer. RVN only scored perhaps only 1 or 2 goals from outside the box at Utd - they were completely different players, but both could create goals from nothing, and scored big big goals against the best teams in the biggest matches (no matter the stylistic differences). Lukuku fails to do this, he needs it on a plate. RVN was the UK ultimate penalty box striker, but ran with the ball from outside the box (into the box), but he hustled, he put pressure on defender, he made goals out of nothing. Lukuku doesn't.
Hmmm... No, I don't think that's it.
I think you are missing the point. The point was even if He score goals but if he loses the ball multiple times while we are attacking and the opposition team do counter attack, it’s not easy to defend counter attack when you play in attacking football style.
Different story if we still have Mourinho.
Think a reason why Real prefer to play Benzema who scored less goals than Morata.
You would make a great football analyst.
Rashford and Martial lose the ball plenty as well. Isn't Martial the most dispossessed player in the team? Rashford has been dribbling himself out of bounds countless times and often makes bad decisions.
Interesting takes on RVN here. 11101 makes the point that RVN was allowed to leave because he didn't fit the way United were trying to play (4-3-3 became popular, Saha was more adept to the tempo we were going for etc). RVN was a penalty box finisher who to be fair and also needed it 'on a plate' more times than not. RVN lamented the loss of David Beckham down the right and he never liked Ronaldo. RVN scored 30 league goals in Beckham's final season, and only 16 the season after and 24 in his final season. I know there were some injuries in that time but 11101 is right about the reasons he was allowed to leave. In his first two seasons he scored 36 and 44. Talk about diminishing returns after his main assist provider left.
Mr. ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg makes it seem like RVN was free scoring in any system, but RVN wasn't exactly scoring for fun for the Netherlands (he's 7th all time goalscorer for them with a vastly inferior goals per 90 average than at United behind forwards some would say were not as good finishers as he was- Huntelaar for instance played less minutes but is 2nd all time). RVN never reached the highs he managed at United over at Real Madrid, where he only scored more than 30 league goals once in four seasons there. Lukaku however is playing well and dominating in a golden generation of a Belgium team (he's there top scorer of all time) that plays a modern expansive attacking game. If Roberto fecking Martinez can bring the best out of him Ole (or whoever takes over next summer) surely can even with how we're playing now.
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Good post and observations. Some of these posters are really clutching at straws.
Fecks sake. He’s not the most skilful or technically gifted striker ever, we all know it. But the amount of disrespect he gets is astonishing. I’m backing him to turn it around.
Were/are those nobodies ever good enough to play for United? This makes absolutely no sense. I couldn't care less who those players are. Lukaku is doing what he was bought for, scoring goals.
He's pretty much been a goal every other game striker for every club he's played for and at international level.
That's not to be sniffed at and he will always put himself in positions where he can score goals
he has his issues with technical ability but with the right build up play and creativity he is a weapon
I certainly think he'll stay as a squad player as Rashford is looking more and more like the real deal.
That's not to be sniffed at and he will always put himself in positions where he can score goals
he has his issues with technical ability but with the right build up play and creativity he is a weapon
I certainly think he'll stay as a squad player as Rashford is looking more and more like the real deal.
Yeah I'm surprised he plays for the country he's currently the all time leading goal scorer for too.
The question is, will he be content being a squad player?
It honestly amazes me some of the things you read about him on here. It’s like people have only ever seen him under Jose and judge him off of that. Playing as a target man which he isn’t very good at and was never going to be good at but “Jose”
Seriously people need to go back and watch his goal for Everton in that last season before he came to us. Sure there were a lot of him getting tap ins or his head to stuff but there were also occasions where he would beat 3, take a good touch beating 2 or run from the halfway line with the ball holding someone off as he did it. His movement was by the way good enough to get on those tap ins and header and overall as an Everton player he was pretty good at running and working the channels. He’s more than this tap in merchant people like to paint him as of flat track bully given he has scored against most of the top teams in our league. When he is on he is on and in a 1 vs 1 situation with the keeper in the dying moments I would much rather trust the ball at Lukaku’s feet to finish than pretty much everyone bar possibly Martial.
The real question is can the others work with him and can he start to do more of the things he used to do at Everton and will that effect the general high pace/intensity the front 3 have played at recently.
Seriously people need to go back and watch his goal for Everton in that last season before he came to us. Sure there were a lot of him getting tap ins or his head to stuff but there were also occasions where he would beat 3, take a good touch beating 2 or run from the halfway line with the ball holding someone off as he did it. His movement was by the way good enough to get on those tap ins and header and overall as an Everton player he was pretty good at running and working the channels. He’s more than this tap in merchant people like to paint him as of flat track bully given he has scored against most of the top teams in our league. When he is on he is on and in a 1 vs 1 situation with the keeper in the dying moments I would much rather trust the ball at Lukaku’s feet to finish than pretty much everyone bar possibly Martial.
The real question is can the others work with him and can he start to do more of the things he used to do at Everton and will that effect the general high pace/intensity the front 3 have played at recently.
There is difference between losing the ball because of bad touch or ball control with losing the ball because of dribble.
Lukaku’s poor touch and ball control is likely to be 95% happening in tight spot, martial & rashford can have 50:50 beating their men.
Just stating a fact. Put them in his position and they would score 15-20 goals for Utd. Were they good enough, no. Just stating my opinion that's all
In his prime RVN could have played in any team in any system. He didn't need it on a plate, he clearly needed the ball (as every striker), but he made bad balls good. RVN out with Fergie and Ronaldo, and we then had far more options available to us. It was quite dramatic, and his attitude was poor. He then went on to score 46 in 68 for Real Madrid. Can you imagine Madrid buying bloody Lukuku?
Check out the goal he scored against Fulham - it's everything that Lukuku can't do. Run with the ball at pace, turn, hold off players.
We can have a sensible discussion about Lukuku, but he's not comparable to RVN - who is one of the best strikers we have ever had.
when Rashford is so obviously a better, more complete player who complements our style better you'd expect him to understand - doesn't always mean he's going to accept it though
I think he will get plenty of Football but if he wants to be the main man he might eventually need to move.
a question I'd ask would be where would he move to? a club signing him is guaranteed goals but could anyone stump up the kind of money United would expect. He's not decreased in value for me. A club like West Ham would love him but could they outlay the kind of money you'd expect. Everton have been spending big but would they want him back and at 80/90 million?
He's got an international reputation given his record for Belgium but it's hard to see where he'd go in Europe
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