Why would be want to sign a long term deal at his homegrown club, currently the best in the league, and learn from the best manager in world football? Idiot.
Phil Foden - What Is His Potential?
- Thread starter Davs
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Genuine question; where is all the hype coming from? Is it because he's English?
He's literally played a handful of minutes when he's team is already dominating. Yet people are going on about him like he has a ceiling of Iniesta.
He's literally played a handful of minutes when he's team is already dominating. Yet people are going on about him like he has a ceiling of Iniesta.
His England performances mainly.
I think there's a few factors:
1) His England performances (especially winning player of the tournament at the U17 World Cup);
2) The constant praise he's got from Guardiola;
3) He's looked very tidy in the few chances he has got so far (hopefully he'll play a part tomorrow in the CL game).
But also I think his style of play factors in, in that he's a small, technical player that's still a little out of the ordinary in the context of the type of player that England have historically produced while we've jealously watched the likes of Spain produce these players and win big tournaments. I remember similar excitement about Josh McEachran and Jack Wilshere as well (hope Foden does better than both of them!).
He's been viewed as City's crown jewel for the last few years. Held in higher regard than Sancho by many whilst they were both at the club (different players in different positions/stages of their development, so it's difficult to compare them really). Player of the tournament when England won the U17 WC, performances which led him to win the BBC Young Sports Personality award.
Pep took a shining to him when he joined - youngest ever English player to start a CL knockout game last season, some very promising pre-season games (including the one against United where he was arguably the best player on the pitch) and now a fully fledged member of the first team squad of one of the strongest teams in the world at 18. Has had some excellent starts in cup games this season where he's been comfortably one of the best on the pitch.
A lot of the hype was already there before he had even played a game for the first team. Ducker went as far as saying he was the most talented young English player (in terms of potential) since Rooney. It's going to be magnified as he is English, but he's the sort of player that you would see Barca producing in that he's a slight, technical, creative 2 footed midfielder, which you don't usually see coming out of the systems in England (though we are seeing a rise in this at the moment).
There's been such a negative reaction to this extension, but I think he's in the best place for his development right now. Central midfielders usually take longer to break into the fold than wingers/forwards do, so comparisons like Sancho are so pointless. There's a very strong chance that he will be a regular getting 30/40 games a season at City by the time he's 20 (when David Silva leaves). In the meantime, he's training with the best manager in the world and learning from some of the best players in the world. All the while, still getting far more exposure to the first team than he did last season - already clocking up 13 appearances (350 mins) and will continue to start all cup games, and a chance for a CL start in City's next game.
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He's always been hyped up. Same with Sancho and Gomes. It's just that Sancho has gone on to first team football and proven it there, while Foden has only done it at the youth level and some handful of minutes at first team level.
I always till late last season rated Brahim Diaz higher, Foden just seemed to soft, but watching him play (yes he's in the best team in the league, against tired and usually beaten opponents) he's completely changed my opinion.
He has assets I've not seen in many English players in a long, long time. He's the closest thing to the love child of David Silva and Iniesta that could ever be born is Stockport. He's got great vision for a killer pass, he's got ridiculous composure on the ball against bigger men for a player his age and stature and he's got supreme confidence to do it when given the chance. He doesn't shy away from the game and when he does come on, he usually makes himself the focal point of our attacking midfield for the 1-10 minutes he's on the pitch. He also moves like Iniesta, recieves the ball like Iniesta would, its weird. He's obviously 1/100th of the player at the minute and if he ends up 1/2 the player he'll have a great career.
He might never become a world class player, but if he doesn't it will in no way be down to his ability with a football. Given the lad has a really level head too, he will be a good player, whether he becomes a top 4 standard good player or another Jack Wilshere remains to be seen but the lad has everything needed to be a top, top footballer. He could do with bulking up a bit.
All that said, I think atm.. he's slightly overrated off his youth performances and because he is a local lad who is breaking through at the most expensive squad in the world and Pep loves him (even if he was shit, if Pep says your great, the english media say your great for a little while. See Nathan Redmond...)
If he was with utd he wouldn’t have played a single minute this season .
I think it's his agility and ability to control and turn with the ball. If you watch this England training video he's on a different level to the other players in that regard, the best example is at 4.05mins. I've seen examples of it when he's played for City and England u21s recently, he can turn and leave players for dead. Iniesta had this quality too, a lot of the small Spanish players do.
*disclaimer - not saying he will be as good as Iniesta.
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City sold him to me on FIFA.
Silva, kdb, Bernardo Silva, gündogan. He is fifth in the pecking order for two spots. Kdb was more or less out all season and gündogan was injured as well. In a few games their three winger started together as well, so they might further eat into his minutes.
At some point kdb is coming back and there are fewer unimportant games (first rounds of the domestic cups).
Without a massive injury crisis, he'll never ever get a chance and that's not even taking into account that city are not going to stop buying new players, especially if one of their starters gets replaced.
With very few exceptions, talents are only getting a real chance at top clubs when there is an opening. Citys Squad is stacked with quality to an extend that he and other talents have no chance at all. The exception might be in defensive midfield.
At some point kdb is coming back and there are fewer unimportant games (first rounds of the domestic cups).
Without a massive injury crisis, he'll never ever get a chance and that's not even taking into account that city are not going to stop buying new players, especially if one of their starters gets replaced.
With very few exceptions, talents are only getting a real chance at top clubs when there is an opening. Citys Squad is stacked with quality to an extend that he and other talents have no chance at all. The exception might be in defensive midfield.
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Great insight, thank you.
There's really 6 spots for 3 places because Gundogan will play in the Fernandinho position from time to time (against weaker teams and if Fernandinho is injured/suspended).
Now we have the "massive injury crisis" that you mention, and he starts tonight so he has the opportunity to impress. I would hope by the end of this season he'll be ahead of Gundogan in the pecking order, and David Silva will begin to play less given his age. So there's a window for Foden to break through if his performances justify it. But again, he's only 18. There's really no rush.
Best of our midfield 3 tonight, albeit Gundo has been shit, and Bernardo quite poor.
He's pure class. You can't look at him and deny that he's class and so any hype will obviously get amplified but may very well be worth it.
Agreed, I thought Bernardo was sloppy tonight, bit surprising given how good he's been this season. Gundogan always looks half a yard off it to me.
Foden had some quiet spells and a couple of loose passes, especially first half, but second half he really grew into it. Constantly looking for the ball, and his first touch and body shape was excellent. Should have had an assist as well. It'll be interesting to see if he keeps his place for Everton.
Gundogan wasn't shit, though some of his movement seems like he's already retired but still was influental in a lot of incisive passes. Foden after a while got better and better, and yeah, compared to Gundo, the way he just wins physical battles, shoulder to shoulders is a joy.
I thought first half he was shit, I made the post at half time, he was supposed to sit and cover but Hoffenheim ran past him time and again. I thought when Walker came on 2nd half and we fixed the system he was better and helped us dominate the game. But first half for me he was atrocious.
He's from Citeh so he must be bad and evil 
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Didn’t he play in the FA Cup? I’ve no idea why he signed a new contract after seeing what Sancho is doing but if he did play on Sunday it’s hardly surprising he’s on the bench tonight.
The best environment for a youth player to develop in is competitive, warm and contains extremely high quality players. Players like Foden, Sancho and Rashford all develop their skill set in training against some of the best players they've ever played with and against, that's why they look great against weaker sides, simply because it's below the competition level they're used to.
I do think Foden should be playing more to develop his game management and decision making but he should only be getting a handful of games a season at his age until he's consistent and ready for more. Playing him tonight and winning 10-0 might make him look great but he won't learn anything or become a better player for it. People get incredibly hung up on this playing time stuff.
Considering Pep only yesterday or today made comments about Liverpool's selection approach to their F.A Cup game, it only seems appropriate that in a Semi-Final he doesn't start with the same youth talent two games in a row, or be seen to be undermining Burton by playing multiple kids.
Blatant lack of objective thinking by the press. Makes it even more silly when Pep is starting an 18 year old right-back.
I'd like Foden to be playing, and I think he should be playing tbh. But I think it's a combination of him playing in the FA Cup at the weekend and the need for minutes for Silva and KDB who are both coming back from injuries.
Garcia is a centre back by the way.
Played a full 90 minutes 3 days ago, 622 minutes so far this season. He's not doing too bad.
Nah that isn't serious. He should be starting today. He's going to be an excellent player and should be getting 90 minutes tonight, not 30.
If the excuse is because he played 3 days ago, then that's an issue in itself. That shouldn't be an issue.
Who are the multiple kids playing? Garcia and Zinchenko? I don't think it's be disrespectful to play Foden tonight. 3 youngsters, one of which has a fair amount of cup experience. About 20 odd games.
As for the need for minutes for Silva and KdB. They should be getting the half hour.
Garcia and Muric both u20's. Foden playing 120 minutes in 3 days at 18 years of age is not too bad at all.
Why on earth is he getting minutes today?! He played 3 days ago for Christ's sake. Poor kid getting run into the ground.
The question is how many more minutes does he get from now until the end of the season. Burton at home is a great chance for big minutes. There won't be too many opportunities from now.
He'll play the 2nd leg of the semi and the final for sure. He'll also get plenty of FA Cup game time unless we do what we did last season. He'll easily get 1200-1300 minutes in all comps this season. Around 15 full games worth.
Personally I'd like to see him play a bit more but its a hard team to get into.
Doesn't play v Burton at home but definitely the final v Spurs or Chelsea?
And FA cup depends on the draw.
He didn't start today because he played Sunday. Himself and Muric will 100% start the final. Not sure of Garcia.
If you get there
I'll bet you he won't easily play this much. He'll get 90 in the 2nd leg because that's a dead game. He might see a 2nd leg appearance in the CL if City have already comfortably won the 1st leg. He'll barely get 30 minutes in the league for the remainder of the season unless the last match or matches are meaningless.
He basically only plays in dead rubber matches and the first half of the season has more of those matches than the 2nd half.
I might have been a bit over-presumtuous.. if we get there.If you get there
He's played 11 full games worth of football already this season and he will 100% play the final.
Your opinion or has Guardiola said that?
Yup, it'll be a strong 9 with them but those 2 will play.Your opinion or has Guardiola said that?