Inter Yer Nan
Full Member
Unless we go tits up the rest of the season Ole is getting the job this summer. I’m very confident of that.
To be fair, there has been more pressure on Poch than on OGS so far this season. Ole came in with no expectations since he wasn't expected to get top 4 and expected to get knocked out by PSG in the CL. It's not as if he has managed the expectations that for example Moyes had to deal with.Some very valid arguments for either Poch or OGS.
OGS has had an amazing start but that is a far cry from continued success and squad building.
Poch has a been fantastic for Spurs considering the resources, however the pressure is less there is no guarantee he could handle the move.
What I don't understand is this talk of 'permanent' manager. Poch has already said he has unfinished business at Spurs and it may not be the right time for him just now.
In that scenario why not give OGS an extension for next season? One season only. Gives time to Poch and also OGS..... low risk and all should become clear by then.
Pochettino
Pros
- has a more proven record, more established as a manager
- his tactics/style seems better (whole system of pressing and attacking) and may suit us
- promote youngster, with some great success in recent years (Kane, Ali)
- working great with budget, despite limited funds, his team has done really well in recent years
Cons
- no gurantee he can adapt here and make good use of our players
- will cost us alot
- no guarantee he may wants to stay here for long term
- Never win a trophy before
Solskjaer
Pros
- has a perfect record for us so far, exceed all expectations
- his attacking style is exactly what we all want here, entertaining to watch at times
- promote youngster, not afraid to bench players with higher reputation
- he brings happiness to the dressing room, and understands united through and through
- seems make very good use of players, everyone improve playing under him
Cons
- Relatively unproven, less established as a manager
- Seems lack of abit of defensive tactics, and players fitness management in 2nd half, our def looks shaky at times
- still uncertain how well can he handle those tough situation (despite winning away against Spur, where De Gea is in God mode)
Verdict
I really hope Ole can stay here for long term, he clicks all box I want for new manager here. But if we go for Poch instead, I wouldn't mind too.
On top of Ole not having signed a single player that is "his", yet. A month or so ago it was a no-brainer in favor of Poch, IMO, bu now I'm actually not advocating either/or - because Ole's making it a bloody impossible decision thus far.Christ on bike, Poch has only 2 years more managerial experience than Ole, We don't even know Ole's playing style yet but somehow you've manage to conclude that he "lacked defensive tactics" after 20 days at the job.
Yeah, and the defensive tactics he is supposedly sorely lacking has made United the team with the best defensive record in the league since his appointment.Christ on bike, Poch has only 2 years more managerial experience than Ole, We don't even know Ole's playing style yet but somehow you've manage to conclude that he "lacked defensive tactics" after 20 days at the job.
Unless we fail to qualify for the CL,I think he”ll end up getting the job and quite rightly so...Unless we go tits up the rest of the season Ole is getting the job this summer. I’m very confident of that.
I wouldn'y say that Ole has done more than Poch in his first 5 years. He has managed Molde, went to Cardiff, failed (in very difficult circumstances) and went back to Molde and is now Manchester United caretaker, while Poch built his way up from Espanyol to Southampton and now Spurs. Poch's career has had a much more upwards trajectory than Ole's.Ole only has cardiff and molde experiences previously. Pochetinno has years more experiences and 4 years at tottenham.
We should compare the fresh pochetinno to compare apple to apple. Ole has done more in his first 5 years managing than pochetinno first 5.
Also on developing youth, you can only develop players in your possession. Give ole a young kane and alli i dont think he would have done a worse job.
Yep. Some people just see what their agenda allows them to.Yeah, and the defensive tactics he is supposedly sorely lacking has made United the team with the best defensive record in the league since his appointment.
And most in form team in Europe...Yeah, and the defensive tactics he is supposedly sorely lacking has made United the team with the best defensive record in the league since his appointment.
The average Real Madrid manager tenure is about 2 seasons. I'm honestly not worried about him going there because he won't last 3 seasons anyway. We could just pick him up after that if Ole doesn't work out. There is absolutely no pressure to pick Pochettino up now.well there are a few things to talk about here. Pochettino and his wonderful eye on how things can drastically improve at the club. I Do think he can be a huge influence on the lads here, he can get them playing most of their football in the opponents half. Ole on the other hand will teach the lads how to fight under intense pressure. We have a good run until the end of the season and then it'll be time to decide. My only worry is, while Ole is awesome we have a slight chance of losing Poch to Real Madrid if we don't wrap him up now. He's a manager for the ages and he can do wonders with a proper budget and a good team like that of ours.
All in all i'd be happy with either of them. Greatly happy because Jose "The SPECIAL One " is gone :P
He was fired by Espanyol in his 3rd year with them bottom of La Liga (9 points from 13 games). He complained about the financial constraints. Javier Aquirre came in and got 35 points from the remaining 23 games with the same players. Is any of this sounding familiar?I wouldn'y say that Ole has done more than Poch in his first 5 years. He has managed Molde, went to Cardiff, failed (in very difficult circumstances) and went back to Molde and is now Manchester United caretaker, while Poch built his way up from Espanyol to Southampton and now Spurs. Poch's career has had a much more upwards trajectory than Ole's.
That being said, Ole now has the chance to show he's just as good as Poch and come summer he might just have done that. The only thing I think Ole needs to work a lot on is getting some success out of our fringe players such as Fred, Pereira, Alexis and Lukaku. If he can get those to perform at a decent level, especially the first 2, then the club can also perform in a lot of competitions. The next month will show just how much he can get out of those players, and how far we can get in the 3 competitions we're in.
I'm tired of hearing about this stuff now, like Pochettino has been some sort of footballing messiah. Klopp was also fired from Mainz after getting them relegated.He was fired by Espanyol in his 3rd year with them bottom of La Liga (9 points from 13 games). He complained about the financial constraints. Javier Aquirre came in and got 35 points from the remaining 23 games with the same players. Is any of this sounding familiar?
Especially as Solskjaer was parachuted into a club already close to relegation and failed to turn it round. Pochettino took a mid-table club with players he was familiar with and turned them into rubbish.I'm tired of hearing about this stuff now, like Pochettino has been some sort of footballing messiah. Klopp was also fired from Mainz after getting them relegated.
People need to understand that one poor job doesn't make you a bad manager. I'm amazed that people are willing to overlook both of those two but won't cut Solskjaer a break on Cardiff. Unreal.
Us not getting into the CL should have nothing to do with it though in my opinion. He wasn't hired to get us into the top 4 I would presume, he was hired to simply steady the ship and stop us being a massive joke. He's done brilliantly and suddenly top 4 looks very likely again. But it shouldn't be the defining factor if we're still playing well and winning, but at this point if we keep doing those things, we should finish in the CL spots as our competition aren't looking too strong.Unless we fail to qualify for the CL,I think he”ll end up getting the job and quite rightly so...
Either it’s a lack of knowledge on what Potch or Klopp did before Dortmund/Southampton or it’s simply just pushing an agenda/point of view.I'm tired of hearing about this stuff now, like Pochettino has been some sort of footballing messiah. Klopp was also fired from Mainz after getting them relegated.
People need to understand that one poor job doesn't make you a bad manager. I'm amazed that people are willing to overlook both of those two but won't cut Solskjaer a break on Cardiff. Unreal.
And before that he had gotten them to 8th in the 10/11 season and then had to sell his 3 best attacking/creative players. The season after he got them to 14th with the new arrivals bought for less than a fourth of the price, not performing as well as the departed ones. The summer before he got fired he spent 700k€ on 2 players and got 3 free transfers.He was fired by Espanyol in his 3rd year with them bottom of La Liga (9 points from 13 games). He complained about the financial constraints. Javier Aquirre came in and got 35 points from the remaining 23 games with the same players. Is any of this sounding familiar?
That is incredibly inaccurate. Klopp left Mainz not after being relegated but after narrowly missing promotion to the Bundesliga. He also was not fired, quite the contrary actually, but left on his own accord by not renewing his contract, eventhough he was offered a new, more lucrative contract multiple times. Nobody in their right mind in Mainz wanted him gone, which is why his farewell event produced a giant sea of tears by supporters, officials, staff, players and himself. His time at Mainz was by no means a failure, but a major success story. He and DoF Heidel layed the foundations that put a club like Mainz, which was club midget compared to the bigger German club working on a shoe string budget on the Bundesliga map.I'm tired of hearing about this stuff now, like Pochettino has been some sort of footballing messiah. Klopp was also fired from Mainz after getting them relegated.
People need to understand that one poor job doesn't make you a bad manager. I'm amazed that people are willing to overlook both of those two but won't cut Solskjaer a break on Cardiff. Unreal.
They're a mid-table side in La Liga - not having a lot of money should hardly come as a surprise. Still doesn't explain why the players who earned 35 points in 23 games for Aquirre only got 9 points in 13 games for Pochettino. Kind of smacks of Solskjaer/Mourinho doesn't it. Did the players "down tools"? Or was it just crap management? The rest of the season took away the excuse that the players weren't good enough.And before that he had gotten them to 8th in the 10/11 season and then had to sell his 3 best attacking/creative players. The season after he got them to 14th with the new arrivals bought for less than a fourth of the price, not performing as well as the departed ones. The summer before he got fired he spent 700k€ on 2 players and got 3 free transfers.
That in my mind gives you a right to bitch a little bit about not getting enough funds. You can't expect a manager to perform at a high level each season without putting anything into the team. And Javier Aguirre got two 13th league positions the next 2 years before leaving on mutual consent.
Clearly Espanyol didn't want to/couldn't afford to spend money whilst still demanding more success from both managers. That doesn't mean Poch didn't perform at Espanyol. Since his depature the club has only managed 8th once more and no higher league position.
I'm not sure what the Espanyol players did or if it was the system Pochettino had at that time, but it was still a good experience for him regardless of how the team performed with the new manager.There's a reason I'm harping on about Pochettino's last year at Espanyol. I don't want anyone with Mourinho-like behaviour patterns anywhere near United. Pochettino at Espanyol looks a lot like Mourinho at Chelsea and then at United - decent performance for a couple of years followed by a toxic meltdown in the third. "I didn't get the players I wanted" isn't an excuse. The manager's job is to get the best out of the players he has. Giving up on that job is not a character defect I want associated with a United manager.
How is it not an excuse when a team sells three of their best players and does not reinvest that money, making it impossible to replace them? They are going to get worse no matter the manager. If in the summer we sold Rashford, Martial and Pogba and didn't reinvest sufficient money to replace them, would you expect Solskjaer to finish in the same position as if he had kept them?There's a reason I'm harping on about Pochettino's last year at Espanyol. I don't want anyone with Mourinho-like behaviour patterns anywhere near United. Pochettino at Espanyol looks a lot like Mourinho at Chelsea and then at United - decent performance for a couple of years followed by a toxic meltdown in the third. "I didn't get the players I wanted" isn't an excuse. The manager's job is to get the best out of the players he has. Giving up on that job is not a character defect I want associated with a United manager.
There seems to be a really strong will here to paint Klopp as a totally inept manager.. Its really fair to say that the clubs he has managed have been in a much better shape when he left than when he started.That is incredibly inaccurate. Klopp left Mainz not after being relegated but after narrowly missing promotion to the Bundesliga. He also was not fired, quite the contrary actually, but left on his own accord by not renewing his contract, eventhough he was offered a new, more lucrative contract multiple times. Nobody in their right mind in Mainz wanted him gone, which is why his farewell event produced a giant sea of tears by supporters, officials, staff, players and himself. His time at Mainz was by no means a failure, but a major success story. He and DoF Heidel layed the foundations that put a club like Mainz, which was club midget compared to the bigger German club working on a shoe string budget on the Bundesliga map.
I would even agree with the sentiment that one failure should not define a coaching career, but the example justifying it is a really poor one.
Aye, missing a top 5 player in the league and a few others. No excuses.Pochettino is only a few points away from the title.
He has every right & capacity to win it whilst the money & players of Liverpool/City are clearly not an issue for him as his points haul shows it.
However - if he doesn't win it; he isn't clearly a winner. People can't big up his tactics because him being points away from the title but then blame the difference in player class & money as the reason he didn't win it.
He is at the same level as clubs above him & that is down to him. Now he needs to bag up the excuses & win it as well.
As I always say - Llorente is not representing the ability of Tottenham - it's representative of the type of football pochettin0 is glued to playing & the strict type of striker he uses upfront.Aye, missing a top 5 player in the league and a few others. No excuses.
Well no, the reason you can blame it on money is because the money has limited his ability to have depth in his squad. Llorente was bought as a good cheap backup - 12 mill. They tried to buy Martial, who would have been a starter on the wing, but also fill in as a number 9 now that Kane is injured. So you can’t really use Llorente as an argument for Poch’s unwavering desire to have a certain type of striker up top. They’re also missing dele who is a massive player for them. And instead of falling off as we all thought they would they are still right up there.Pochettino is only a few points away from the title.
He has every right & capacity to win it whilst the money & players of Liverpool/City are clearly not an issue for him as his points haul shows it.
However - if he doesn't win it; he isn't clearly a winner. People can't big up his tactics because him being points away from the title but then blame the difference in player class & money as the reason he didn't win it.
He is at the same level as clubs above him & that is down to him. Now he needs to bag up the excuses & win it as well.
What are you even on about here? we've always used Son/Dele roaming up front when Kane is injured, Llorente has only been starting when ALL 3 OF THEM have been missing. now with 2 of them still out and Lucas in poor form we might continue to use Llorente with Son but even in our last match he was dropped.As I always say - Llorente is not representing the ability of Tottenham - it's representative of the type of football pochettin0 is glued to playing & the strict type of striker he uses upfront.
At united; Lukaku has a big chance over Rashford if he intends to use a single striker formation.
I think this is going to be an increasingly important factor and could even be the decisive one in the end. And rightly so.If Ole keeps delivering and Poch still gets the job, he will be under massive pressure from day one, both internally and externally. That is something the United board has to consider.
Poch hasn't played 4-2-3-1 this season, but a type of 4-4-2 diamond, and previous seasons he also tinkered with his formation such as with a back 3. I think he is quite tactically flexible.Especially as Solskjaer was parachuted into a club already close to relegation and failed to turn it round. Pochettino took a mid-table club with players he was familiar with and turned them into rubbish.
The other problem I have with Pochettino is his strong commitment to 4231. One thing we learned from the Mourinho years is that there doesn't seem to be a role in a 4231 that lets Pogba blossom. And I can't see Rashford as the sole target man. Solskjaer's 41212 plays to the strengths of the players we have.
will people stop implying that we are going to penny pinch when all the evidence is plainly to the contrary?40m to get this guy vs 8m to get Ole. Is there anyone here delusional enough to think Ed Woodward is going for Poch ? Even if Spurs won the league & UCL , he is still not coming here.