Peter Schmeichel: United regret we didn't give David Moyes more time

[Shez]

Y

I’ve said this in the main OGS thread but with OGS having Phelan as one of his coaches, you could make a case that Moyes could have done better.

One aspect of his reign that is reported on is his apparent refusal to use Phelan or Rene on his coaching staff, which SAF apparently wanted to happen.

However OGS has seemingly taken that advice to Moyes and followed it, by bringing Phelan back in, and we’re 10 wins from 11 games. I wonder if SAF was under the impression that Moyes would have been better than he was if he kept that continuity going, instead of wholesale coaching staff changes.

You can't polish a turd but it definitely won't have been as big a fall from grace. A new manager coming in would have just had to rely on the people already there and use existing stability to navigate. Instead you had a whole crew trying to learn ropes at the same time - the wreck was inevitable and the blame lies squarely on moyes for that one

 

[Minimalist]

The only person with regret is Davie Fecking Moyes.

 

[Shez]

So any hard working Scottish person could have achieved what SAF did … I smell a monkeys with typewriters WUM

That's not what he's saying. You guys are on the same side on this

 

[Beagle]

Moyes is a horrifically shit football manager, no amount of time would have changed that.

This is not true though. There is no objective scale for comparing managers, or even achievements of managers. There are way too many variables.

Only conclusion we can make is Moyes was not the right man for United after Fergie left.

 

[RG 11]

That's not what he's saying. You guys are on the same side on this

Thank you! I thought the immediate next sentence with the emoji would make it clear.

 

[clarkydaz]

And Moyes proved us all wrong after he left united?

 

[crossy1686]

Wow, wow, wow, what do you mean 'We'? First of all, you're a mercenary, second of all, don't link your own opinions to Manchester United to give them more weight. It was a shocking decision and WE wish Moyes had never been given the job in the first place.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

This is not true though. There is no objective scale for comparing managers, or even achievements of managers. There are way too many variables.

Only conclusion we can make is Moyes was not the right man for United after Fergie left.

Games won? Trophies won? Performance of teams managed? Decisions taken by managers?

 

[Fracture90]

It just wasn't gonna work out with his only means of attack being death by a thousand crosses and chuck it to Januzaj.

 

[Revan]

This is not true though. There is no objective scale for comparing managers, or even achievements of managers. There are way too many variables.

Only conclusion we can make is Moyes was not the right man for United after Fergie left.

He's shit. It didn't matter the timing, or the club (providing that we are talking for clubs that want to win trophies), he would have been shit. Cause you know, a shit manager, is shit at managing.

 

[Skills]

Bingo on those bits. SAF tried to advise Moyes to retain his backroom staff - Moyes didn't.

Also, hindsight, as the saying goes, is 20/20. The upside, if Moyes could make the step up, would have been another coach who'd be willing to stay for a decade or 2 and keep us competing. I guess, from that perspective, SAF thought the gamble worth it. Sadly, Moyes was so far out of his depth, it's not even funny.

A lot on here was against his appointment from the get-go as well. Kudos to them. Think I fell for the hope/romanticism of it all for the first few months, until it became clear that he was just another mid table manager - if I'm being kind.

This isn't an upside on its own.

I'd rather have 20 managers in 20 years who win us 10 titles. Rather than 1 who stays for 20 years and gets 5.

 

[Catt]

I doubt any amount of time would have mattered with Moyes.

 

[Ish]

This isn't an upside on its own.

I'd rather have 20 managers in 20 years who win us 10 titles. Rather than 1 who stays for 20 years and gets 5.

Who wouldn't, though? Of course everybody would prefer your scenario.

What about 1 manager in 10 years winning 15 trophies, or 15 managers in 20 years winning 5?

 

[DLE]

Talks a lot of sense generally on a broad interview with Richard Keys and Andy Gray, but talks absolute bollix on this one. Mind-boggling.

Moyes mistake was to replace the entire coaching team at the same time he joined. Had he kept some or all, especially Mike Phelan, it would have been a completely different story.

Because of this mistake, he lost the job, never really got his feet on the ground and will be labeled as a bad manager and a loser by the ignorants. The only three options United had were to 1) give Moyes more time, 2) sack Moyes or 3) bring back some of the coaching team.

Moyes knows this but probably won’t admit it.

Ole also understands this and that’s why he brought Mike Phelan back. This single decision is having a much bigger impact than most realize.

 

[RG 11]

This is not true though. There is no objective scale for comparing managers, or even achievements of managers. There are way too many variables.

Only conclusion we can make is Moyes was not the right man for United after Fergie left.

Plenty of metrics to compare managers with, mate.
Trophies
League position
Promoting Youth
Record against top sides

Both managers after him did better than Moyes on that front. Moyes even managed to smash so many negative records while at the club which is also a pretty viable metric to judge him.

Even if you look at his record with Everton, he slightly exceeded expectations with them for a while but was largely average (1 top 4 finish). His record post United just re-emphasizes it. I don't know what these ex players are on when they still defend Moyes.

 

[Skills]

Who wouldn't, though? Of course everybody would prefer your scenario.

What about 1 manager in 10 years winning 15 trophies, or 15 managers in 20 years winning 5?

Actually most people on here would scoff their noses at it. It's too Madrid and Chelsea like.

The prevailing thought within the fanbase seems to be the best way to go about is to be 1 managers play toy for as long as he likes. And pray to the gods he turns out to be a Ferguson or a Busby (about 1 in a million chance).

Madrid since Fergie retired, are now onto their 5th manager (despite winning 4 CL in that time)

 

[crossy1686]

Moyes mistake was to replace the entire coaching team at the same time he joined. Had he kept some or all, especially Mike Phelan, it would have been a completely different story.

Because of this mistake, he lost the job, never really got his feet on the ground and will be labeled as a bad manager and a loser by the ignorants. The only three options United had were to 1) give Moyes more time, 2) sack Moyes or 3) bring back some of the coaching team.

Moyes knows this but probably won’t admit it.

Ole also understands this and that’s why he brought Mike Phelan back. This single decision is having a much bigger impact than most realize.

Direct quote from David Moyes:

"I wouldn't have done anything different," he said on The Clare Balding Show. "I would have only done it different if I'd have known that it was 10 months, instead of six years.

 

[Beagle]

Games won? Trophies won? Performance of teams managed? Decisions taken by managers?

Decisions taken yes. To an extent. But there is context involved there also.

Games and trophies won don't apply in the same way to all clubs at all levels. A manager winning the Championship or some lesser reputed European league would not be rated higher than someone like Poch.

Good performance is also a very subjective criteria. The Tony Pulis led Stoke and Big Sam led Bolton are few extreme examples. Their teams performed well within the confines of what they defined a good performance. Roy Hodgson's West Brom and Harry Redknapp's Pompey performed well under the pressure of relegation and managed two of the greatest escapes. Do they not deserve credit despite not winning a trophy?

A very close example is Ole himself. His team being shit at Cardiff should not discredit him as a manager. The manager's job is so much about fitting well into a club. Not all managers can do well or be their best at every club.

 

[RG 11]

Moyes mistake was to replace the entire coaching team at the same time he joined. Had he kept some or all, especially Mike Phelan, it would have been a completely different story.

Because of this mistake, he lost the job, never really got his feet on the ground and will be labeled as a bad manager and a loser by the ignorants. The only three options United had were to 1) give Moyes more time, 2) sack Moyes or 3) bring back some of the coaching team.

Moyes knows this but probably won’t admit it.

Ole also understands this and that’s why he brought Mike Phelan back. This single decision is having a much bigger impact than most realize.

It's not that ignorant to call him a loser though based on these boneheaded decisions he made. He thought he knew more than he did and went against the advise of the greatest manager in our history. If we was a winner, either he would have brought in a more competent support staff or listened to SAF. His entire track record backs up him being labeled a loser.

Does this seem like a winner to you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Moyes#Manager

 

[Ish]

Actually most people on here would scoff their noses at it. It's too Madrid and Chelsea like.

The prevailing thought within the fanbase seems to be the best way to go about is to be 1 managers play toy for as long as he likes. And pray to the gods he turns out to be a Ferguson or a Busby (about 1 in a million chance).

Madrid since Fergie retired, are now onto their 5th manager (despite winning 4 CL in that time)

Aargh, very true Skills. We are morally superior to those sacking clubs

 

[Beagle]

He's shit. It didn't matter the timing, or the club (providing that we are talking for clubs that want to win trophies), he would have been shit. Cause you know, a shit manager, is shit at managing.

He must have some qualities. Qualtites that were not suited to United but he can't be a clueless dud. I agree he doesn't seem like the guy who can challenge for major trophies though.

 

[pierrethesnack]

LvG won a trophy and atleast gave us a few good moments in big games. He was a terrible manager but did much better than Moyes ever would have even if the latter had been given another year.

Think that's too harsh. He wasn't right for United, but LvG is in a entirely different class than Moyes and not a "terrible" manager by any stretch.

 

[RoyH1]

I getting more and more convinced that most of our players were/are so oblivious of what real football matters are because of SAF's total control management and father figure attitude. They were living in a bubble created by the great man and his coaching staff.

Spoken for truth. SAF's intelligence and man management was out of this world.

 

[DLE]

It's not that ignorant to call him a loser though based on these boneheaded decisions he made. He thought he knew more than he did and went against the advise of the greatest manager in our history. If we was a winner, either he would have brought in a more competent support staff or listened to SAF. His entire track record backs up him being labeled a loser.

Does this seem like a winner to you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Moyes#Manager

To be fair, when Ole took over at Cardiff he did exactly the same thing Moyes did. He changed the entire back room staff and today admits it was one of his biggest mistakes. That’s why he’s approaching it completely different at United.

I think most leaders learn this by mistake, they are eager to see their vision come true quickly. Taking on a team, it’s best to wait and get to know your way around before making big changes.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Can't believe so many ex United players still argue that Moyes should have been given more time.

It's ludicrous.

 

[Irrational.]

This is exactly why Pete needs to stay the feck away from our DoF vacancy. What a clueless comment.

Under Moyes we were the laughing stock of the Premier League. It was clear as day the goon had no idea what he was doing. The ideas he was trying to implement were utter trash, the staff he brought in were midtable garbage and he generally didn't have a clue of how to operate a club of this magnitude. We dodged a bullet by sacking him when we did.

 

[RG 11]

To be fair, when Ole took over at Cardiff he did exactly the same thing Moyes did. He changed the entire back room staff and today admits it was one of his biggest mistakes. That’s why he’s approaching it completely different at United.

I think most leaders learn this by mistake, they are eager to see their vision come true quickly. Taking on a team, it’s best to wait and get to know your way around before making big changes.

Agreed. But Moyes doesn't seem to have learned anything (see post by @crossy1686 above). He genuinely seems to believe he was being given the same level of authority and patience as Sir Alex because of his 6 year contract completely forgetting the fact that he was inheriting a team which won 4 out of the last 5 titles. He was incredibly naive in his every move. Taking a long vacation when the biggest job of his life was in front of him, getting rid of the staff, claiming we should aspire to be like City or Liverpool, 82 crosses against Fulham, relying on Fellaini as a defensive midfielder. Everything he did had an air of being a plucky underdog which is far from what United have always been. He just didn't fit here.

 

[RG 11]

This is exactly why Pete needs to stay the feck away from our DoF vacancy. What a clueless comment.

Under Moyes we were the laughing stock of the Premier League. It was clear as day the goon had no idea what he was doing. The ideas he was trying to implement were utter trash, the staff he brought in were midtable garbage and he generally didn't have a clue of how to operate a club of this magnitude. We dodged a bullet by sacking him when we did.

Is he in the running for it? I hope we get someone with some fecking experience for this position and not just hand it to an ex player just because "united way".

 

[Irrational.]

Is he in the running for it? I hope we get someone with some fecking experience for this position and not just hand it to an ex player just because "united way".

I don't think he's in the running for it (at least I hope not) but he's publicly thrown his name into the hat by saying he's interested. There's no way we should let him near it.

 

[sullydnl]

No scenario that has David Moyes as Manchester United manager would have gone well as he wasn't, isn't and would never be good enough. The only regret is giving him the job in the first place.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

It's not mind-boggling. What he se said is sort of what we've all said in that Moyes brought in and all that United experience going out at once was bad and therefor he was never been able to cope in his first year. Then he's sacked and the same thing is repeated without much thought. Had Moyes been given another year it would have been better than him being sacked and LvG being brought in instead as Moyes would have had learned a ton what he did wrong and built on that.

I'm not sure about that. He's said in interviews not long ago that if he did it again, he wouldn't do all that much different.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...hester-united-moyes-wouldnt-anything-10697619

 

[devilish]

Anyone taking the champions to 7th place deserves to be sacked. We shouldn't argue with that

 

[GioF]

I love Big Pete but he’s wrong on this occasion unfortunately.

If he said “United regret hiring Moyes” then I think most if not all would agree.

We went from a manager who was direct, attacking and feared nobody to a defensive, ‘play not to lose’ manager who was so far out of his depth it was a joke.

The fact he released Phelan, Renny and all the backroom staff just shows he was either stupid or arrogant. Unfortunately if it was the latter then he couldn’t back it up.

 

[DLE]

Agreed. But Moyes doesn't seem to have learned anything (see post by @crossy1686 above). He genuinely seems to believe he was being given the same level of authority and patience as Sir Alex because of his 6 year contract completely forgetting the fact that he was inheriting a team which won 4 out of the last 5 titles. He was incredibly naive in his every move. Taking a long vacation when the biggest job of his life was in front of him, getting rid of the staff, claiming we should aspire to be like City or Liverpool, 82 crosses against Fulham, relying on Fellaini as a defensive midfielder. Everything he did had an air of being a plucky underdog which is far from what United have always been. He just didn't fit here.

Yes, and all comes down to his early decision to replace the entire staff. After that he was completely on his own. Lost, desperately trying to navigate through the mess. It’s sad. And of course this also has a massive impact on his ego. He will probably never admit to his failure.

 

[Adisa]

Why are some of our legends so clueless at times ? Whether it's him, Keane, Neville, at times they say some ridiculous stuff

Why I do not want some of them at this club in any capacity.
You listen to them and ask, what the feck are you on about?.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

He's doing pretty well until that point; defending the players by pointing out how they tried in the face of terrible tactics and incessant brickbats from their own manager (the comparison between that and Fergie venting his displeasure in one post-match bollocking is very telling) and admitting he misjudged Pep but I can't make head nor tail of the Moyes comments. Yes it's debatable Moyes's second year would have been better than his first, maybe, but on what planet would that level have been acceptable for Manchester United?

 

[RG 11]

Yes, and all comes down to his early decision to replace the entire staff. After that he was completely on his own. Lost, desperately trying to navigate through the mess. It’s sad. And of course this also has a massive impact on his ego. He will probably never admit to his failure.

True. He can't admit to it because he has to portray in the media that it was the club's fault for not giving him enough time. And since people are still debating after 5 years it does seem to work in helping create an image of clubs failure rather than his.

 

[RG 11]

I don't think he's in the running for it (at least I hope not) but he's publicly thrown his name into the hat by saying he's interested. There's no way we should let him near it.

I don't think anyone who's played majority of their career only under SAF should be qualified. When you hear them all of them seem to have an idealized version of how a club should be run and will be a terrible fit for a DOF position. We need someone with experience.

 

[kouroux]

Why I do not want some of them at this club in any capacity.
You listen to them and ask, what the feck are you on about?.

Same really. The one I like the most by far is Rio. He simply tells it like it is.

 

[kouroux]

Yes, and all comes down to his early decision to replace the entire staff. After that he was completely on his own. Lost, desperately trying to navigate through the mess. It’s sad. And of course this also has a massive impact on his ego. He will probably never admit to his failure.

Getting rid of an experienced staff in winning was his biggest mistake.