McTominay: so rare for a youngster to come through an academy and straight into the PL as ready made

[MAME DIOUF 32]

He was used as a pawn in the previous manager's anti-Pogba and anti-Woodward idiocy and acquitted himself well. Ole has used him in an injury crisis and again he's filled a gap capably.

I get that he's not particularly good and he's not ever going to be first choice, but how many players do you want us to replace in summer? He's a backup midfield player who would be sixth choice if Fred and Pereira hadn't been so awful. Moving him on is not a priority.

 

[Alemar]

We had several matches without both Matic and Herrera. Please, give McTominay a break, he is doing all he can (and then some) to help in midfield. Certainly he plays it simple - and it's a miracle he never fecked up while deputising for Matic. Lack of flair we can accept, as long as he helps avoid a catastrophe in midfield.

And again, no one here has any doubts that, say, Casemiro is a better DM. McTominay is doing much more than decent for a benchwarmer who he recently was.

 

[Irrational.]

He’s a hard-working, solid midfield squad player. He won’t be pulling up trees but he’ll give you determination and follow instructions to the T.

Not sure what many people have against him. It’s the same crowd who have a problem with ‘local lad’ Lingard.

At 22, he has the potential to reach the level of a player like Eric Dier, who we were prepared to shell out £50 million for, if reports are to be believed. Every team needs a Phil Neville/ Fletcher/ Butt. He’s not going to be a starter. He won’t moan, will be on relatively low wages, will be reliable/ dependable when called upon and just go about his business quietly. I don’t have any issues with him.

 

[Wicked_Badger]

Young dude, dropped in the deep end in an injury ravaged team going for a Champions League spot in one of the most tricky positions on the pitch.

He’s done pretty well for us given the situation & I hope he goes on and continues to improve as a player. Seems to have the right attitude in any case.

Rather see him on the pitch than the £60m Fred, who seems hell bent on giving the ball away at every opportunity.

 

[El Jefe]

He may have average to good performances but he's a player I see no talent in at all. Usually with youth players you can see the talent but application and timing could be why they don't make it. With Mctominay I don't see one jot of talent, he looks like a young version of the most run of the mill midfielders you'd see at Burnley.

He got into the team with Jose because of his height and discipline and is staying in the team because Ole loves the youth team and Carrick sees him as a personal project.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

He may have average to good performances but he's a player I see no talent in at all. Usually with youth players you can see the talent but application and timing could be why they don't make it. With Mctominay I don't see one jot of talent, he looks like a young version of the most run of the mill midfielders you'd see at Burnley.

He got into the team with Jose because of his height and discipline because of Jose and is staying in the team because Ole loves the youth team and Carrick sees him as a personal project.

Harsh but I see what you mean

 

[Beachryan]

I'm just waiting to see what it is he's good at. He's tall without being good in the air, lanky without being fast, doesn't tackle much, has a limited passing range, can't shoot despite starting as a striker and seems best at just being a warm body.

I'm happy enough because he's a youth product, but man he must be something else in training to warrant the love from two managers.

 

[dpansheth]

Here’s a thought... if Fred was from our academy and Mctominay as well. Who would you have?

 

[Zoo]

McTominay is still learning his trade. Solskjær said last week that he was actually waiting to use him in a more advanced position so which position he’ll eventually settle down in remains up for debate. Also remember that today was his third game in 7 days.

 

[iammemphis]

I'm just waiting to see what it is he's good at. He's tall without being good in the air, lanky without being fast, doesn't tackle much, has a limited passing range, can't shoot despite starting as a striker and seems best at just being a warm body.

I'm happy enough because he's a youth product, but man he must be something else in training to warrant the love from two managers.

Whats wrong with being a solid all rounder? Fernandinho is 33 and still being lauded as a great player, who lauded him at McTominays age? Point being he has so much time to mature and build on the technical skills needed for the position he will end up playing. Fletcher took til he was 27/28 to become a great player for us, but his early years were mostly based around his stamina and ability to help keep possession in the midfield, recycling it to the creative players to do their magic. You can’t take players like him for granted, all he needs is more game time.

 

[antohan]

No you can't have three Veratti's, but you can have a Kante or a Herrera, a Casemiro or a Busquets; you can have lesser versions of these too. Football has moved beyond having do-a-jobs on the bench, you need players that can positively impact a game, whether that may be defensively or offensively. 'Not fecking up regularly' shouldn't be seen a good trait, it should be seen as a prerequisite, unless a player is incredibly talented in other areas of the game.

Just look at the language I've bolded. Imagine going for a job interview at a FTSE 100 company and using similar language.

Verratti was a generic. You can't have Verratti, Kante and Busquets on the bench. Thanks for the bolding, I specifically chose THOSE words both for being correct and what it boiled down to.

When you start looking at squad depth that sort of player works, because the other 80% of the season that he is benched he isn't causing trouble, he isn't upset and looking for suitors... he is singularly focused on being ready to chip in when the 20% comes.

 

[King.of.Red]

He’s a hard-working, solid midfield squad player. He won’t be pulling up trees but he’ll give you determination and follow instructions to the T.

Not sure what many people have against him. It’s the same crowd who have a problem with ‘local lad’ Lingard.

At 22, he has the potential to reach the level of a player like Eric Dier, who we were prepared to shell out £50 million for, if reports are to be believed. Every team needs a Phil Neville/ Fletcher/ Butt. He’s not going to be a starter. He won’t moan, will be on relatively low wages, will be reliable/ dependable when called upon and just go about his business quietly. I don’t have any issues with him.

Great post. I still don't understand why he always get so much hates. He is never a starter quality for us but a reliable squad player. Well, whatever, I will always be his fan, and I hope he will have long career with United so I can read many moans about him in this forum for long time. Haha

 

[Rozay]

He’s a hard-working, solid midfield squad player. He won’t be pulling up trees but he’ll give you determination and follow instructions to the T.

Not sure what many people have against him. It’s the same crowd who have a problem with ‘local lad’ Lingard.

At 22, he has the potential to reach the level of a player like Eric Dier, who we were prepared to shell out £50 million for, if reports are to be believed. Every team needs a Phil Neville/ Fletcher/ Butt. He’s not going to be a starter. He won’t moan, will be on relatively low wages, will be reliable/ dependable when called upon and just go about his business quietly. I don’t have any issues with him.

Why do you say that, out of curiousity? Dier has gone off the boil a little lately, but has been a fantastic player, who was impressing for Spurs at his age and about to become a key player for England.

McTominay, just one month ago, was being pursued by Championship clubs and SPL clubs on loan. That is at the age of 22, having played 30 or 40 times in United’s first team, Not as a promising 18 year old. The likes of Fulham and Palace were after TFM at 18.

For those speaking of supporting youth, nobody is against young players. The whole forum has been clamouring for the likes of Greenwood, Gomes, Chong and go to get chances all year. We still rue that Morison didn’t amount to anything. Very few young players make it at United, or even get the opportunity that Scott has had to try. The bar is high, and only the best youngsters get a chance, the rest leave. McTominay is an anomaly in that he’s been an average player at youth level, and average at first team level here, yet has been given more chances than any kid here in the last 4 years. I’m just genuinely curious as to why. The way I see it is, if he earned a 5 year deal and all the games he’s had based on what he’s shown in the youth team so far, then pretty much every kid we have should feel entitled to the same. He’s no Garner, Greenwood or Laird. The likes of Tanner and Kenyon will feel they deserve the chance to hang around for 5 years in the hope they can become a ‘decent squad player’.

I’ve never seen a youth player get the games he’s gotten in my whole life supporting United in the hope that they could mature into a decent squad player. Some of them end up as that, but the ones that get a chance in the first team have all been with a view to them being amongst the very best players. Big clubs rarely buy or develop squad players at all. They collect top level players who challenge each other and work out a hierarchy themselves based on their performances. But the likes of Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Bailly, Fred - all our squad players, were bought with the intention of being first team players.

 

[tieunhilang]

Why do you say that, out of curiousity? Dier has gone off the boil a little lately, but has been a fantastic player, who was impressing for Spurs at his age and about to become a key player for England.

McTominay, just one month ago, was being pursued by Championship clubs and SPL clubs on loan. That is at the age of 22, having played 30 or 40 times in United’s first team, Not as a promising 18 year old. The likes of Fulham and Palace were after TFM at 18.

For those speaking of supporting youth, nobody is against young players. The whole forum has been clamouring for the likes of Greenwood, Gomes, Chong and go to get chances all year. We still rue that Morison didn’t amount to anything. Very few young players make it at United, or even get the opportunity that Scott has had to try. The bar is high, and only the best youngsters get a chance, the rest leave. McTominay is an anomaly in that he’s been an average player at youth level, and average at first team level here, yet has been given more chances than any kid here in the last 4 years. I’m just genuinely curious as to why. The way I see it is, if he earned a 5 year deal and all the games he’s had based on what he’s shown in the youth team so far, then pretty much every kid we have should feel entitled to the same. He’s no Garner, Greenwood or Laird. The likes of Tanner and Kenyon will feel they deserve the chance to hang around for 5 years in the hope they can become a ‘decent squad player’.

I’ve never seen a youth player get the games he’s gotten in my whole life supporting United in the hope that they could mature into a decent squad player. Some of them end up as that, but the ones that get a chance in the first team have all been with a view to them being amongst the very best players. Big clubs rarely buy or develop squad players at all. They collect top level players who challenge each other and work out a hierarchy themselves based on their performances. But the likes of Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Bailly, Fred - all our squad players, were bought with the intention of being first team players.

Or may be he's really THAT GOOD from a professional viewpoint. That's why Mourinho, Ole, the young team coaches...etc all rate him highly while people on Redcafe just scratch their heads? I'd trust the professionals working at our club and youth team to judge on this. Don't forget even Sir Alex Ferguson had praises for him too.

 

[ivaldo]

Verratti was a generic. You can't have Verratti, Kante and Busquets on the bench. Thanks for the bolding, I specifically chose THOSE words both for being correct and what it boiled down to.

When you start looking at squad depth that sort of player works, because the other 80% of the season that he is benched he isn't causing trouble, he isn't upset and looking for suitors... he is singularly focused on being ready to chip in when the 20% comes.

I didn't say you could have those players on the bench, which is why I specifically mentioned lesser versions of those players. They aren't players that do a job, they're players that can do their job well.

 

[Yorkeontop]

He's a limited player but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not PL quality. He's young enough yet and there's further improvement to come. United for me should always be creating our own squad players, so here's to that.

 

[Ekeke]

This was Jose being Jose! trying to prove his ego is still big

Well the point is that Mourinho making him out to be something he isnt, doesnt deserve credit.

 

[Rozay]

He's a limited player but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not PL quality. He's young enough yet and there's further improvement to come. United for me should always be creating our own squad players, so here's to that.

We’ve often created our own squad players but never as part of some sort of ‘squad player graduate programme’. Those that have ended up as squad players all had genuine potential to start for us, and perhaps competition eventually saw them settle for second place. Most of them had good spells as first choice, and were easily good enough to start regularly, and when they fell below that line where they couldn’t reasonably compete for a starting place, they were sold. The likes of Evans, Brown, O’Shea, Fletcher, Welbeck - some of those started massive games, including CL finals, as genuine first choice. Many of them were only stopped from long careers as first choice by injuries or one of the world’s best coming in. Evans was a starter for a while, we chose Pique over him, Brown was of a similar standard, rated highly everywhere and an England international, Fletcher was similar.

I just think the ability to ‘do a job and not feck up’ has never been the line we draw even for squaddies. If that were the case, we could literally take any footballer from the top two divisions at least for any position, except upfront or wing perhaps. Squad players at top clubs fight for places. Any player I’ve seen brought in specifically to be a squad player has always soon been sold.

 

[The United Irishman]

If McTominay had a Spanish, Italian, or Brazilian name, everyone would be singing his praises. The people who are not impressed with him just don't believe his name, nationality, or heritage, is sexy enough for United. This is sad but true!

I think he's did a great job and hope he continues to improve and impress.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

And your point is?

No one is expecting McTominay to be a GOAT. He a talented player who might/might not be good enough to be a starter for United when he matures.

Matic was not good enough for Chelsea at 22. When he returned at 26 he was named in the PFA team of the year and won a PL medal.

How many defensive midfielders are bossing it at 22?

My point? You brought his age up, not me.

 

[JPRouve]

22 is young enough to dream about improvement but it's not young enough to actually deserve praise when you judge his performances. He plays like a serviceable player and these players are very common. The only actual good side is from a fiscal standpoint, being an academy player means that he is a cheap squad player which is great.

 

[Rozay]

If McTominay had a Spanish, Italian, or Brazilian name, everyone would be singing his praises. The people who are not impressed with him just don't believe his name, nationality, or heritage, is sexy enough for United. This is sad but true!

I think he's did a great job and hope he continues to improve and impress.

We have other British talents who everyone really wants to get chances tbh.

 

[Ekeke]

If McTominay had a Spanish, Italian, or Brazilian name, everyone would be singing his praises. The people who are not impressed with him just don't believe his name, nationality, or heritage, is sexy enough for United. This is sad but true!

I think he's did a great job and hope he continues to improve and impress.

This is a weird comment when the most hyped up leftback on the site is Tierney

 

[Dante]

Why do you say that, out of curiousity? Dier has gone off the boil a little lately, but has been a fantastic player, who was impressing for Spurs at his age and about to become a key player for England.

McTominay, just one month ago, was being pursued by Championship clubs and SPL clubs on loan. That is at the age of 22, having played 30 or 40 times in United’s first team, Not as a promising 18 year old. The likes of Fulham and Palace were after TFM at 18.

For those speaking of supporting youth, nobody is against young players. The whole forum has been clamouring for the likes of Greenwood, Gomes, Chong and go to get chances all year. We still rue that Morison didn’t amount to anything. Very few young players make it at United, or even get the opportunity that Scott has had to try. The bar is high, and only the best youngsters get a chance, the rest leave. McTominay is an anomaly in that he’s been an average player at youth level, and average at first team level here, yet has been given more chances than any kid here in the last 4 years. I’m just genuinely curious as to why. The way I see it is, if he earned a 5 year deal and all the games he’s had based on what he’s shown in the youth team so far, then pretty much every kid we have should feel entitled to the same. He’s no Garner, Greenwood or Laird. The likes of Tanner and Kenyon will feel they deserve the chance to hang around for 5 years in the hope they can become a ‘decent squad player’.

I’ve never seen a youth player get the games he’s gotten in my whole life supporting United in the hope that they could mature into a decent squad player. Some of them end up as that, but the ones that get a chance in the first team have all been with a view to them being amongst the very best players. Big clubs rarely buy or develop squad players at all. They collect top level players who challenge each other and work out a hierarchy themselves based on their performances. But the likes of Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Bailly, Fred - all our squad players, were bought with the intention of being first team players.

At the age of 18, McTominay was 5'6". By the time he was 19, he'd grown to 6'4".

You can't compare like with like across ages. McTominay is at the extreme end of the scale. Physiologically speaking, he's still adjusting to his body like a teenager. He's probably going to carry on developing into his mid-to-late twenties so age-based comparisons to somebody like Dier are totally misplaced.

 

[antohan]

I didn't say you could have those players on the bench, which is why I specifically mentioned lesser versions of those players. They aren't players that do a job, they're players that can do their job well.

And McTominay is a lesser Matic doing his job well. Certainly better than Sanchez has done his, despite ticking all your boxes of not being content with mediocrity.

 

[horsechoker]

If McTominay had a Spanish, Italian, or Brazilian name, everyone would be singing his praises. The people who are not impressed with him just don't believe his name, nationality, or heritage, is sexy enough for United. This is sad but true!

I think he's did a great job and hope he continues to improve and impress.

Mactomoninho

 

[RedSky]

He’s a hard-working, solid midfield squad player. He won’t be pulling up trees but he’ll give you determination and follow instructions to the T.

Not sure what many people have against him. It’s the same crowd who have a problem with ‘local lad’ Lingard.

At 22, he has the potential to reach the level of a player like Eric Dier, who we were prepared to shell out £50 million for, if reports are to be believed. Every team needs a Phil Neville/ Fletcher/ Butt. He’s not going to be a starter. He won’t moan, will be on relatively low wages, will be reliable/ dependable when called upon and just go about his business quietly. I don’t have any issues with him.

It's just the usual muppets who throw their toys out the window when a young player is given a chance at the club when what they really want is their favourite FM players to join the club instead. The same people who probably called Rashford Rashford not so long ago. The same types who want us to follow the Manchester City example and buy 2/3 superstars for each position.

 

[dove]

If McTominay had a Spanish, Italian, or Brazilian name, everyone would be singing his praises. The people who are not impressed with him just don't believe his name, nationality, or heritage, is sexy enough for United. This is sad but true!

I think he's did a great job and hope he continues to improve and impress.

Oh, finally someone threw a nationality card Apparently people who have eyes open are saying what they see only because he is not McTomininho Fred has the coolest name in the universe but he has been below average so far and many people are not afraid to say it because it's true. Similar with McTominay, extremely limited player who will never be good enough for any significant role in a team trying to have majority of the ball (he is very suspect defensively as well tbf). Pretty sure we can find another 5 players in our academy alone who wouldn't do any worse than him.

 

[Kag]

He’s a hard-working, solid midfield squad player. He won’t be pulling up trees but he’ll give you determination and follow instructions to the T.

Not sure what many people have against him. It’s the same crowd who have a problem with ‘local lad’ Lingard.

At 22, he has the potential to reach the level of a player like Eric Dier, who we were prepared to shell out £50 million for, if reports are to be believed. Every team needs a Phil Neville/ Fletcher/ Butt. He’s not going to be a starter. He won’t moan, will be on relatively low wages, will be reliable/ dependable when called upon and just go about his business quietly. I don’t have any issues with him.

Did you actually watch Nicky Butt play football? If you did, then you wouldn’t be making this comparison. Butt was a starter. He was significantly better then McTominay at the age of 22, too. So was Fletcher. I don’t have any issues with McTominay. But he isn’t going to be a Darren Fletcher for us. He is, quite simply, not as talented.

 

[Rozay]

At the age of 18, McTominay was 5'6". By the time he was 19, he'd grown to 6'4".

You can't compare like with like across ages. McTominay is at the extreme end of the scale. Physiologically speaking, he's still adjusting to his body like a teenager. He's probably going to carry on developing into his mid-to-late twenties so age-based comparisons to somebody like Dier are totally misplaced.

That’s true. I retain a small amount of hope based on the fact that the pros may have seen something. But I’m just speaking as to what my eyes can see, which isn’t a United level talent.

He may well develop later on, who knows. Perhaps it will all make sense then. As I said, he’s been given two 5-year deals in the last 2 years. He’s been given more games than any youth player since Rashford came through. And what we’ve gotten in return so far, I would expect we would get if we invested similar time in any other youth midfielder. In that sense, McTominay is one of the luckiest players I can think of in recent time.

 

[Kammy26]

I love it when we bring academy players through but I just don’t see it with McTominay. He won’t become a regular in this side, not even a squad player. Southampton have one of the worst teams in the league and they bossed McTominay and Pereira for the majority of the game. It’s telling how bad are midfield plays since matic has been out.

What gets me is how slow he is the with the ball. It’s like he’s 2-3 seconds behind everybody else, and his movement of the ball is ridiculously slow for midfield player. I read somewhere that he used to play further up the pitch in the youth team, I find it hard to believe with such slow movement. It’s like he plays in slow motion when he has the ball.

Comparing him with fletcher is a lazy comparison just because they are both Scottish and play similar positions, they are nothing alike fletcher was miles better, and if anyone remembers fletcher had a massive reputation in the reserves before he played with the first team, nobody hardly heard of McTominay before José promoted him.

 

[VP89]

My problem with McTominay is that he's too one dimensional for the current expectations even of holding midfielders. He's good at breaking up play and having a physical presence, but he's often ponderous on the ball or too safe.

I've seen him making cutting forward passes before to players so I'm hoping it just grows in his game more prominently. As a central midfielder I have higher hopes of him than Pereira. I personally feel only one of those two should stick around in a squad role. Our quality in depth needs to improve beyond them.

 

[sugar_kane]

Seemed to me yesterday at times he was looking for the forward pass more than previously which is promising, it's just a question of whether he has the quality to pull it off consistently or not.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Did you actually watch Nicky Butt play football? If you did, then you wouldn’t be making this comparison. Butt was a starter. He was significantly better then McTominay at the age of 22, too. So was Fletcher. I don’t have any issues with McTominay. But he isn’t going to be a Darren Fletcher for us. He is, quite simply, not as talented.

Oh but he's only 22, you need to give it time. He's the new Fletcher and Donald Love is the new Gary Neville. Just wait for it.

 

[ivaldo]

And McTominay is a lesser Matic doing his job well. Certainly better than Sanchez has done his, despite ticking all your boxes of not being content with mediocrity.

He isn't, but OK. What's Sanchez got to do with it?

 

[antohan]

22 is young enough to dream about improvement but it's not young enough to actually deserve praise when you judge his performances. He plays like a serviceable player and these players are very common. The only actual good side is from a fiscal standpoint, being an academy player means that he is a cheap squad player which is great.

Homegrown rule expansion + Brexit is bound to make players like him more valuable.

 

[Carl S Bridge]

Very good post. Hits the nail on the head.

This the same Darren Fletcher that sir Alex wanted to give a debut to as a school boy? But wasn't allowed to as he was so young? 15. Yeah Mctominay really compares

 

[dalriada]

Awful way to talk about a United youngster.

Given time and experience he's every chance to establish himself in the first team or at least as a squad player.

Not all academy players are going to be a Giggs or Rashford. But many can contributed a lot to the club players like Fletcher, Phil Neville, O'Shea - maybe not world class but did give great service to the club.

McTominay is an understated player so his skills can be missed, a lot of his game is positional and he reads the game well. With experience and confidence he'll get more ambitious with his passing and being coached by Carrick is going to be great for him.

Agree 100%.

If he's wearing a Utd shirt and in the first team, he deserves our support unless he embarasses the club or fails to make the grade. In the meantime, give him a chance at the beginning of his first team career.
There's not room in the team for all the youngsters to come through, and I think we lose some who could go on to be good players. Too often they end up dropping down to lower leagues where their potential is wasted.

More importantly with Scott McT, I agree he's an understated player, mostly because of the position and role he's asked to play - and one of the players who often divided opinion in that regard was Michael Carrick, who went on to be a lynchpin of the team.

No question though, yesterday wasn't one of his better games, evidenced by Ashley Young having to nag him forward.

 

[JPRouve]

Homegrown rule expansion + Brexit is bound to make players like him more valuable.

So we agree that his cheapness is a good thing?

 

[Rozay]

James Garner is probably the more likely to be our next DM I’d say.