Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .

Cee90

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I'm absolutely sick of Brexit to be honest.

I cannot contribute more than that unfortunately, as I would be absolutely lying if I pretended to have a clue of what is actually going on and what it even means for us.
 

Adebesi

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iKnowNothing said:
Genuine question - is it possible for a government in power a few years later to seek membership of the EU again?
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That could definitely happen, it would take time and we would lose all the special privilidges we have accrued over the years, the rebate and all the rest of it. We'd be just another member, like all the others.

That could happen. I would go further and say I reckon it absolutely will happen once people realise this Global Britain dream they were sold was complete horseshit.
 

Fully Fledged

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Cee90 said:
I'm absolutely sick of Brexit to be honest.

I cannot contribute more than that unfortunately, as I would be absolutely lying if I pretended to have a clue of what is actually going on and what it even means for us.
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Believe me mate no one knows whats going on or how it will impact the country. This whole process has been total chaos from start to present and no one knows when it will finish.
 

SteveJ

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Krusty's Pork Products™ ahoy.
 

MoskvaRed

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To paraphrase Churchill, I’d say a second referendum is the worst way of resolving this issue except for all the other ways. It would be vitriolic, the populists would frame it as the elite robbing the ordinary people of their victory and there is no guarantee Remain would win as a lot of voters would continue to stick their head in the sand about the consequences of leaving.

But I don’t think parliament could simply revoke Art 50 without a popular mandate (even though it could as a matter of constitutional law) and the other options all definitely lead to Brexit - from a damage limitation but rather pointless BINO, through May’s blind Brexit (at risk of highjack anyway when she is replaced as leader) all the way to the ERG/Britannia Unchained dystopia in which we make the US look like a socialist state.
 

Siorac

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Carolina Red said:
Trump has spoken out against a 2nd referendum and supports Brexit.

Big flashing neon sign there folks. Just sayin...
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He cannot be accused of not putting the interests of the United States first in this matter, for sure.
 

MoskvaRed

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Adebesi said:
That could definitely happen, it would take time and we would lose all the special privilidges we have accrued over the years, the rebate and all the rest of it. We'd be just another member, like all the others.

That could happen. I would go further and say I reckon it absolutely will happen once people realise this Global Britain dream they were sold was complete horseshit.
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It would be funny if the result of all this nationalist, nostalgic bullsh*t is that in 10-15 years we end up fully integrated in a EU federalist project!
 

mancan92

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labour are really just as bad as the conservatives they have no back bone. Dont want to stand for anything and just want to wait the country into a disaster in hope that they take over after.
 

Dave89

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mancan92 said:
labour are really just as bad as the conservatives they have no back bone. Dont want to stand for anything and just want to wait the country into a disaster in hope that they take over after.
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Or they want to force the vote for a second ref at a time where it's more likely to succeed? A week is a long time in politics.
 

Siorac

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Adebesi said:
I do agree with you but resistance to a second vote is hardly baffling. There was plenty of information available before the last vote, which led a lot of us to the conclusion that Brexit was a really stupid idea. What has happened in the last two years vindicates what a lot of people were saying back then, it is not brand new information. True, it is a lot more obvious now, but I wonder whether it is any more obvious to the people inclined to vote for Brexit? I suspect, as i have said dozens of times before (tho I have no evidence to back it up) that it has merely made people who already opposed it even more certain of their view. I reckon the majority of people who wanted Brexit still do. And that is because people's opinions on this question derive from emotions, not rationality.

Also, while you didnt mention this aspect, a lot of the time when I talk to people about this they cite the lies that were told last time as a reason not to treat that result as sacrosanct. But does anyone think another election would be conducted with a greater spirit of honesty? There'll be just as many lies the next time around as there were last time. Different lies, I guess. Nobody could say German car manufacturers will ensure we get a great deal anymore with a straight face. But there'll be lies about how well Britain would fare trading on WTO terms, all that bullshit about eradicating all duties on imports and cheap trainers that JRM loves going on about.

And the fact that the vote was two years ago is only relevant if we are proposing to have ongoing votes every few years to confirm we are happy with our current EU membership status - in or out. We could have GEs and EU referendums, alternating like Euros and World Cups, one every 2 years. That way everyone gets to vote on the most accurate, up to date information.

And of course a Brexiter would also complain that if the result had gone the other way, they wouldnt be getting a second chance. Not an analogous situation of course because there is no confusion or uncertainty around continuing with the status quo. But every time there was a crisis in the EU, if there was a decision to set quotas for migrants or increase the budget or anything like that, Brexiters would say: "THE SITUATION HAS CHANGED! WE NEED ANOTHER VOTE."

Having said all that, I do think a second ref is the best - perhaps only - way out of this hole we've dug ourselves into.
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The issue is that the current government is simply incapable of delivering Brexit. Whatever democratic mandate it had been granted by the referendum evaporated by now. The negotiated deal was defeated twice, no deal was defeated - even though it is still the default outcome -, there doesn't seem to be even a hint of rethinking Britain's red lines so that a soft Brexit might be possible.

At this point they are out of options. Either accept no deal - which was voted down by Parliament - or ask the public opinion about the existing possibilities.

That doesn't mean there has to be a vote every two years from then on. I don't know how referendums work in the UK but in a lot of parliamentary democracies it is simple: if anyone collects enough signatures to support a petition for a referendum then Parliament has to vote on it. Those who would want another vote in the future, either to leave or to rejoin, should get busy with those petitions, organise themselves or at least vote for politicians who promise that vote.
 

Dave89

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MoskvaRed said:
It’s not the last chance and even ardent remainers like Alastair Campbell didn’t want this put to a vote today. They need to get c.30 Tories on board (to offset the DUP and Labour kippers like Hoey and Mann).
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We don't do nuance here. fecking corbyn!!!1!​
 
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