Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
16,280
What's happening?
 

Giant Midget

Aka - rooney_10119
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,586
What's happening?
Corbyn tabled a Vote of No Confidence. However, this isn’t the VoNC we were hoping for. That would be a VoNC in the government, this is a VoNC in the PM herself, and is thus non-binding and does not lead to any direct consequences.

However, the past precedence has been that a PM resigns if they lose a VoNC in themselves. As for when this would take place, well, the Government could simply not allow it to take place at all, which would look terrible, but losing it would look even more terrible, so who really knows?
 

Hephaestus

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
4,011
What's happening?
Corbyn has put forward a vote of no confidence in May. Crucially, it's in May not the government so doesn't trigger the 14 day clock set out in the Fixed Terms Parliment Act, meaning May can lose with zero actual consequences other than embarrassment. Reckon if the vote goes ahead then they will probably just abstain to prevent it from even having any symbolism.
 

sun_tzu

The Art of Bore
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
17,299
Location
Still waiting for the Youthquake
BREAKINGSpeaker grants emergency debate on EU Council
Emergency Debate request


House of Commons

Parliament


HoCCopyright: HoC
Speaker John Bercow says that he is satisfied that this is enough for an emergency debate.

He says he will advise MPs later, towards the end of the day in the Commons, for how long the debate should take and when it will take place.

He says there is "good reason" why he can't provide the time and length immediately, as he normally would.
 

onemanarmy

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
3,937
Location
Belgium
Interesting to see what the EU will do when Brits start coming to the continent to ask for political asylum. Can happen any time soon. :lol:
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
16,280
Corbyn tabled a Vote of No Confidence. However, this isn’t the VoNC we were hoping for. That would be a VoNC in the government, this is a VoNC in the PM herself, and is thus non-binding and does not lead to any direct consequences.

However, the past precedence has been that a PM resigns if they lose a VoNC in themselves. As for when this would take place, well, the Government could simply not allow it to take place at all, which would look terrible, but losing it would look even more terrible, so who really knows?
Corbyn has put forward a vote of no confidence in May. Crucially, it's in May not the government so doesn't trigger the 14 day clock set out in the Fixed Terms Parliment Act, meaning May can lose with zero actual consequences other than embarrassment. Reckon if the vote goes ahead then they will probably just abstain to prevent it from even having any symbolism.
Thanks - what a mess...
 

rcoobc

Not as crap as eferyone thinks
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
41,175
Location
C-137
BREAKINGSpeaker grants emergency debate on EU Council
Emergency Debate request


House of Commons

Parliament


HoCCopyright: HoC
Speaker John Bercow says that he is satisfied that this is enough for an emergency debate.

He says he will advise MPs later, towards the end of the day in the Commons, for how long the debate should take and when it will take place.

He says there is "good reason" why he can't provide the time and length immediately, as he normally would.
Good.
 

Fully Fledged

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
12,721
Location
Midlands UK
So unless I'm reading it wrongly, the motion won't actually unseat the government but just allows Labour to pretend they're being proactive?
It's the only thing that the DUP might vote for. There is no point having a vote of no confidence in the government if the vote won't pass May would use it as confirmation that parliament backs her government.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
12,368
Utter bollocks, the views of a country change it's not undemocratic to check whether that's the case especially given what was voted on hasn't been delivered. That's how our political system works. I wouldn't be against another referendum in 10 years but it would need to be on the same deal.

And yes 51% would obviously be enough and would pass parliament immediately.
Exactly.

51% either way would basically just be status quo: indecision, chaos, infighting, protests and doubtless leading to riots. But that's for a two choice vote. Like I said what the feck would happen if there's a 3 way vote that remain "wins", but across the two leave options leave still has an overall majority?

It would be so much better to mandate revoking article 50 through a general election than a second referendum, impossible as it may be.


No-one is suggesting that the vote be retaken until it suits a certain outcome. that is ridiculous. You are simply trying to gee up righteous indignation where there is none to be had.

The country were told basic lies and went to the polls and based their votes upon the "facts" given to them by trusted experts. Now it is patently obvious that they were misled and that the only possible options for BREXIT in no way or form resemble the one they were asked to vote for in 2016 (as that is impossible to deliver) a large proportion of rational leave voters are rightly unhappy and feel that democracy has let them down.

Giving them a chance to inform the government how they feel now the facts have come to light is certainly not undemocratic.
I'm not geeing up anything. There would be indignation, a feck ton of it, that's a fact. And it would technically be righteous. And I say that as someone who voted remain and would obviously vote remain again. In fact, the righteous indignation would provide a lot of fuel to the Brexit side during a second referendum, and the results might go even further in the wrong direction.


Lets be honest the original referendum result wasn't strong enough to justify such a massive decision that would cause so much upheaval. How many idiots voted in protest at the government in 2016 that could have swung the vote to leave?

Any referendum of that magnitude should have needed at least a 60% threshold to pass.
I agree. But I'd rather just outlaw referendums as they are generally stupid things to hold for questions of this magnitude.

You don't use a shovel to get yourself out of a hole.
 

afrocentricity

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
May 12, 2005
Messages
23,007
In fact, the righteous indignation would provide a lot of fuel to the Brexit side during a second referendum, and the results might go even further in the wrong direction.
How so? They gonna vote multiple times are they?
 

Raees

Legal Guardian of the Football forums
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
28,987
Arguments for JC tabling no confidence motion in May rather than the Government (taken from Twitter)
  • It’ll show how much support May has in Parliament. Forces the DUP to show their hand. Delegitimises the government further.
  • Also, it'll expose the 117 Tory MPs who voted no confidence last week if they vote with her that they're putting party before country. Basically the hypocrisy of the Tory party.
  • By tabling a no confidence vote specifically aimed at the PM, Corbyn has played a blinder. This effectively allows #Labour to see how the numbers actually stack up while keeping the trump card of a formal vote of no confidence in reserve.
  • While there is not legal weight behind the vote it would remove the last shreds of authority she has after the vote of contempt and the internal confidence vote. Her position would be untenable.
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
Arguments for JC tabling no confidence motion in May rather than the Government (taken from Twitter)
  • It’ll show how much support May has in Parliament. Forces the DUP to show their hand. Delegitimises the government further.
  • Also, it'll expose the 117 Tory MPs who voted no confidence last week if they vote with her that they're putting party before country. Basically the hypocrisy of the Tory party.
  • By tabling a no confidence vote specifically aimed at the PM, Corbyn has played a blinder. This effectively allows #Labour to see how the numbers actually stack up while keeping the trump card of a formal vote of no confidence in reserve.
  • While there is not legal weight behind the vote it would remove the last shreds of authority she has after the vote of contempt and the internal confidence vote. Her position would be untenable.
Corbyn playing 4D Chess, the cheeky fecker.
 

Ubik

Nothing happens until something moves!
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
18,184
  • By tabling a no confidence vote specifically aimed at the PM, Corbyn has played a blinder. This effectively allows #Labour to see how the numbers actually stack up while keeping the trump card of a formal vote of no confidence in reserve.
What does this even mean? If the government decide to take it to a vote and win, the headlines will be "May wins Commons confidence vote." It's not a risk-free means of "testing numbers". So you need to actually win it, and winning it carries no actual weight.
 

Ekkie Thump

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
2,647
Supports
Leeds United
What does this even mean? If the government decide to take it to a vote and win, the headlines will be "May wins Commons confidence vote." It's not a risk-free means of "testing numbers". So you need to actually win it, and winning it carries no actual weight.
Not that it matters in the great scheme of things but May winning would itself lead to some awkward questions - such as why 117 Tory MP's thought she was incapable of leading their party but perfectly capable of running the country.
 

Silva

Full Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
30,764
Location
Smoke crack like Isaac Asimov
Not that it matters in the great scheme of things but May winning would itself lead to some awkward questions - such as why 117 Tory MP's thought she was incapable of leading their party but perfectly capable of running the country.
Especially after JRM went around talking about how she had to resign after the vote.
 

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
57,564
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Not that it matters in the great scheme of things but May winning would itself lead to some awkward questions - such as why 117 Tory MP's thought she was incapable of leading their party but perfectly capable of running the country.
Fear not, it will be another anonymous vote so nobody will actually have to explain their convictions.
 

Ubik

Nothing happens until something moves!
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
18,184
Not that it matters in the great scheme of things but May winning would itself lead to some awkward questions - such as why 117 Tory MP's thought she was incapable of leading their party but perfectly capable of running the country.
Unless they called for her to resign after it as well (i.e. 19th Century Man), it's pretty easy to handwave it away as "we are a democratic party and the party decided".
 

Fully Fledged

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
12,721
Location
Midlands UK
What does this even mean? If the government decide to take it to a vote and win, the headlines will be "May wins Commons confidence vote." It's not a risk-free means of "testing numbers". So you need to actually win it, and winning it carries no actual weight.
They have a better chance of winning this as the DUP have said that they will vote for no confidence in the PM but that they won't back a vote of no confidence in the government.
 

Raees

Legal Guardian of the Football forums
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
28,987
What does this even mean? If the government decide to take it to a vote and win, the headlines will be "May wins Commons confidence vote." It's not a risk-free means of "testing numbers". So you need to actually win it, and winning it carries no actual weight.
The argument is that it would expose the hypocrisy of the Conservative party but what long term impact that would have is rather debatable
 

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
57,564
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
I think there’s a chance she will lose the vote.

With all of Labour, Lib Dems and SNP voting no confidence, they only need 9 conservatives to vote no confidence for a majority. I could see some of the hard brexiters sticking the knife in to get Boris or Rees-Mogg leading the party to the general election.

In reality, I doubt she will get all of Lib Dems as a few of them will vote to keep her because they know they will lose their seats in a GE. Same goes for some labour candidates in hard Brexit areas.
 

Ekkie Thump

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
2,647
Supports
Leeds United
Unless they called for her to resign after it as well (i.e. 19th Century Man), it's pretty easy to handwave it away as "we are a democratic party and the party decided".
I don't have much faith in the British public but I'm fairly confident the majority will be able to see through that diaphanous bullshit.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,122
Unless they called for her to resign after it as well (i.e. 19th Century Man), it's pretty easy to handwave it away as "we are a democratic party and the party decided".
Pretty much. If you dislike the Tories then they've done much fecking worse in the past couple of years than moan about her leaders and then sneakily back her again when it's advantageous for them to do so.
 

Cheesy

Bread with dipping sauce
Scout
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
36,122
I think there’s a chance she will lose the vote.

With all of Labour, Lib Dems and SNP voting no confidence, they only need 9 conservatives to vote no confidence for a majority. I could see some of the hard brexiters sticking the knife in to get Boris or Rees-Mogg leading the party to the general election.

In reality, I doubt she will get all of Lib Dems as a few of them will vote to keep her because they know they will lose their seats in a GE. Same goes for some labour candidates in hard Brexit areas.
If that's the case then you'd imagine it'll cancel out the relatively small number of Tories who'll probably go against her in the end.