Are you going to do that thing where if someone presents players who have .3 fewer tackles/interceptions you say that's not as good as Herrera? Because there are several players who play for teams lower in the table (Ndidi, Gueye, Romeu, Xhaka even) that have comparable or in some cases better defensive stats. Herrera is not comparable with Fernandinho or Kante or increasingly Fabinho, who take the ball away at similar rates but offer more for their teams in other ways than Herrera does. And numbers between Herrera and Kante don't tell the story. Kante has been a feature on 2 title winning teams and a World Cup winning team. Herrera isn't getting call ups to his national team.
Ander Herrera to PSG? | Gone.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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Fabinho?
I won’t argue with Kante or Fernandinho, both terrific players and if you want to make case of them being better than Herrera then that is perfectly reasonable. But they are both unavailable. So that leaves us with Gueye, Romeu, Ndidi and Xhaka...
I think Fabinho is pretty well along the path of being more highly thought of and a more well-rounded player than Herrera, although he may of course sit a little deeper in midfield with different responsibilities.Fabinho?
I won’t argue with Kante or Fernandinho, both terrific players and if you want to make case of them being better than Herrera then that is perfectly reasonable. But they are both unavailable. So that leaves us with Gueye, Romeu, Ndidi and Xhaka...
My point was mainly that Herrera belongs in a conversation with the others, which is a rather run of the mill group of players.
Fabinho is so so much better than Herrera. Showed it at Monaco and has hit a consistency for Liverpool after an initial stall.
No idea what these people are wondering about. If Liverpool can add a creative player instead of Milner, Winaldjum or Henderson - their midfield will be sorted.
Would you rather have Pogba, Herrera, Matic over Pogba, Lo Celso, and Rabiot?
Pogba, Ander and Rabiot or Pogba, Ander and Lo Celso for me.
Pogba, Lo Celso and Rabiot would leave the defense to fend for itself a bit too much
What has Matic have to do with anything? He is a holding midfielder while Herrera is not. Where have I said Matic is good enough? He also needs to be replaced eventually, but I think he can still hold his own for another year if we strengthen some other positions which are more pressing, like RW and RB.
Matic is a holding midfielder, it's not essential that he has a shot. They are completely different players and don't play the same position. You really can't be serious about the positioning. Herrera is erratic in his movement, he always chases the ball around and is generally a pain in the butt for opposing teams. Matic's positional awareness is levels above Herrera. I would say that's Herreras weakest point actually, and is the main reason Matic plays in front of the defence and not him.
He is good at what he does, but I don't think we need that type of midfielder in most games.
Milner is definitely better than Herrera offensively and yes I would take Henderson over Herrera.
Totally agree. Good hardworking player with his limits.Replaceable.We should simply offer sligthy increased wage and rotation or squad player role or go to PSG.
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I'm serious about the position seeing as I always watch us play and have an eye on our defenders and midfielders positions defensively. Its something I go into the games focusing on making sure I know how often the midfielders are coming back to help out the defense, because I dont know if any sites will tell the stats on that. So I look for it myself. Ander does it most.
No problem. It can be days before I have time to reply sometimes.
The difference is that Liverpool have a much better attack than us. Maybe we could hide Herrera if we had top players in attack and around him but I don't think we need his type of player most games.
Fair enough bud. I agree with that to a point. But there’s just much more pressing concerns in the starting XI, IMO. Not the right time to lose him on a free.
Then you don't rate him at all.
Him coming back to help the defenders doesn't mean his positioning awareness is good though. A smart DM with good positioning will most often look very imobile, look at the likes of Carrick and Xabi Alonso as examples. You don't often see this kind of player running around chasing the ball. But they're often in the right place at the right time.
Herrera is good at what he does but I don't think we need that type of midfielder against sides that we're dominating.
I don't want to lose him either ideally but I would still only use him as a squad player and try to find a better option for the starting eleven.
I do rate him as an important squad player, just not as someone we should rely on all the time.
They do if they have legs like Ander, who gets forward to support attacks and score a few goals as well as coming back to take the pressure off the defense.
He isn't playing right in front of the defense, so he has to run back to make his contribution there.
He's an important player to our system. Not just a squad player. I'm not sure why he's mention as a DM though.
The problem is we won't buy someone superior to replace him. Currently Herrera is our 2nd best midfielder. We sold Fellaini. Mata and Pereira might be going. Matic is declining. That leaves Pogba, Fred and McTominay. Even if you add one good player to that it's still worrying, especially in terms of depth. We need to keep him AND buy at least one midfielder.
So despite all that the only suggestions you've been able to give me were 2 unattainable players and a 3rd who you admit has a different skill set and plays in a different position. Great stuff!
Wut? Good defensive midfielders are often in the right position, but they can't always predict when a teammate will make a mistake, lose their man or get disposed. A good defensive midfielder is aware of his surroundings and reacts to it. Its why 9 times out of 10 he's the one sniffing out danger or making the last ditch challenge and not Matic.
Herrera is tactically and positionally astute, which is why managers turn to him when they need a job doing, or if they need someone to fill in a different position.
Each of you is right
- Herrera doesn't belong to the top 7 players to be sold in priority
- The market value of a player of same level is relatively important
- Herrera is not a Manchester United or Spanish legend (2 caps only)
- You don't need 3 very good players but 5-6 to have depth and tactical options
There is no denying that it's bad news if he moves from a managerial perspective.
- Herrera doesn't belong to the top 7 players to be sold in priority
- The market value of a player of same level is relatively important
- Herrera is not a Manchester United or Spanish legend (2 caps only)
- You don't need 3 very good players but 5-6 to have depth and tactical options
There is no denying that it's bad news if he moves from a managerial perspective.
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Despite all of it, what we’ve settled on isn’t having a player along the lines of what Everton Southampton and Leicester City have in their midfields. There’s quite a big gap between them and the other three.
Still no names...
He's played for Bilbao, Man Utd, had been wanted by Barca and now PSG. But yeah, Southampton level.
There are many many names of better midfielders than Ander Herrera. No point putting the time into that list if you just mark them all unavailable.Still no names...
He's played for Bilbao, Man Utd, had been wanted by Barca and now PSG. But yeah, Southampton level.
Whether they are available or not doesn’t change the fact that you’re fawning over someone who comps with Granit Xhaka and Wilfred Ndidi and is closer to Romeu’s skill set than he is to the ball winners at City, Liverpool and Chelsea.
Yeah, sure, that's why you haven't listed them.
No he doesn't.
You can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. I notice you neglected to comment on the clubs I mentioned as well. Shocking.I'd just like to stop you short of crediting Herrera with perceived interest from other clubs, lest you want to say that Nico Gaitan and every other bum linked to United are United quality.Yeah, sure, that's why you haven't listed them.
No he doesn't.
Ball winners like Herrera are a dime a dozen. Easy to find. It's just you have to look down the league table typically instead of up it.
Some absolutely fecking mental assements of Herrera in this thread. What hell is going on
International breakSome absolutely fecking mental assements of Herrera in this thread. What hell is going on
God, I hate it!International break
Think it drives some of us nuts.
Mental.Some absolutely fecking mental assements of Herrera in this thread. What hell is going on
I’ve provided some comps. Would love to have a think about the comps someone else provided, but I’ve yet to see them. Surely he’s not incomparable?
Not really expecting you to do it, as it wouldn’t suit the brand of only piping in with insults and no substance.
5 sub appearances whereas the rest of them have 1 sub appearance max. Check out when he's started
Gueye has 0 goals and 1 assist, Ndidi 1 goal 0 assists so Milivojevic is the only one comparible to Ander's 2 goals and 3 assists. But he doesnt do as much defensively
Now if you combine the two, Ander makes among most tackles + interceptions combined from a CM/DM in the league per 90 minutes played. Plus 2 goals and 3 assists going forward.
Learn to use the site.
Edit - Gueye has more combined now. Ander had more earlier in the season but not anymore
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So his comps are the other players on those lists?5 sub appearances whereas the rest of them have 1 sub appearance max. Check out when he's started
Gueye has 0 goals and 1 assist, Ndidi 1 goal 0 assists so Milivojevic is the only one comparible to Ander's 2 goals and 3 assists. But he doesnt do as much defensively
Now if you combine the two, Ander makes the most tackles + interceptions combined from a CM/DM in the league per 90 minutes played. Plus 2 goals and 3 assists going forward.
Learn to use the site.
If they are also scoring some important goals and contributing to the attack like Ander is then sure.
Most of them do one thing well, make lots of tackles or make lots of interceptions. They dont do both like Ander. He also contributes a few goals and assists. So thats a lot for your ball winner. More than most anyway.
Providing stats without analysis is not an argument. Some observations:
The tangibles:
1. United have more of the ball usually than all those other teams. Less chances then for a midfielder to make interceptions, since the other team is not seeing much of it.
2. Herrera makes less fouls because he is comparatively better positioned.
3. He has to make less tackles for the same reason.
The intangibles:
Herrera was not a regular under Mourinho this season. It's known that a player plays better (especially in midfield) when played regularly. When Ole did so, he quickly became indispensable to the team.
Besides point #1, nothing you said is quantifiable
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