There is more to football than what is quantifiable.
Ander Herrera to PSG? | Gone.
- Thread starter roonster09
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Herrera is quality and passionate about the club, him leaving before some of the shite players we have at this club would be ridiculous
I think he will perform really well in he remaining games (as by his normal standards of late), and end up getting the preferred contract here towards the end of the season.
If you like watching a guy with the pace and tempo of a lamp post play defensive mid, Matic is your guy.
I can't believe some of the posts I'm reading in this thread.
Herrera is one of the few guys in the squad who has the quality we need in the first IX. He's acquitted himself consistently under Ole and proven his worth in seasons previous. The underrating of him here is madness.
Ok. I see your point, but that would be exciting to watch the interchange between the three midfielders.
I just read how United hierarchy is going to scout/sign younger talent, so it wouldn't surprise me if Ander is sacrificed for another midfielder in the same mould.
Ideally, an all-French midfield prospect of Rabiot, Ndombele, and Pogba would strike a good balance between attack and defense.
You clearly don't know what an insult is. As for the other stuff it seems @Ekeke did it for me. You have an agenda which is fine.
So no names. Point proven.
I think Herrera's value for us is out of doubt. What some of us question at times (me at least) is the convenience of a "ball winner" in front of the holding player and next to Pogba, instead of a more creative player who holds more on the ball, drives the team and comes from behind at times to give a killer pass and break the defence.
With Pogba we have a player who seems more comfortable in a peripheral role, moving all around, collecting the ball on the wing at times, sometimes in a more advanced position and getting into the box to score or assist. Also when he's nullified by the opposition we seem to lose all our creative force as a team. Nobody pops up with that sparks of magic to do something unpredictable and break their defence.
When I think about the ideal partner to Pogba I think about player like Pjanic, Thiago or Verratti, more than Kante or any ball winning specialist. In a team that gets broken in two sides I'd find two good defensive mids to balance, but if we plan to play a hard pressing game in the future with everyone involved in defensive tasks, I think a good holding midfielder and two in front who offer certain support should be enough to be in balance.
The problems I see are about the budget for the summer, as we have enough gaps to fill to spend big on midfield too. And also the availability of options, or the ability from the club to spot an interesting player without a big name on reasonable money who can fit the role. The press report something about Fernandes from Sporting, but I know nothing about him.
If those at the club don't have better plans, I think we should keep Herrera who's a safe bet at least, and try to introduce Angel Gomes progressively to see if he could be our long term solution. Pereira could be a candidate for the future as well and there's also Fred of course, but if we lose Herrera we can't rely on any of them to start every week as they don't offer enough guarantees, so we'll see what happens.
My guess is that he's pressing the club a bit with the recent rumours, but he will end up staying as soon as we get closer to his demands.
With Pogba we have a player who seems more comfortable in a peripheral role, moving all around, collecting the ball on the wing at times, sometimes in a more advanced position and getting into the box to score or assist. Also when he's nullified by the opposition we seem to lose all our creative force as a team. Nobody pops up with that sparks of magic to do something unpredictable and break their defence.
When I think about the ideal partner to Pogba I think about player like Pjanic, Thiago or Verratti, more than Kante or any ball winning specialist. In a team that gets broken in two sides I'd find two good defensive mids to balance, but if we plan to play a hard pressing game in the future with everyone involved in defensive tasks, I think a good holding midfielder and two in front who offer certain support should be enough to be in balance.
The problems I see are about the budget for the summer, as we have enough gaps to fill to spend big on midfield too. And also the availability of options, or the ability from the club to spot an interesting player without a big name on reasonable money who can fit the role. The press report something about Fernandes from Sporting, but I know nothing about him.
If those at the club don't have better plans, I think we should keep Herrera who's a safe bet at least, and try to introduce Angel Gomes progressively to see if he could be our long term solution. Pereira could be a candidate for the future as well and there's also Fred of course, but if we lose Herrera we can't rely on any of them to start every week as they don't offer enough guarantees, so we'll see what happens.
My guess is that he's pressing the club a bit with the recent rumours, but he will end up staying as soon as we get closer to his demands.
It’ll be a big shame if he leaves but it maybe required. He is a fantastic player but not top tier and I can understand why he wants a big contract given the stage of his career. However, our wage bill is massive, we pay for mediocrity really. To try to tackle this long term, we may have to sacrifice players like Herrera in the short term.
And bring someone else who will very likely be paid at least as much?
Exactly. His replacement will be paid as much if not more than what he wants anyway.
You don't sacrifice good players to lower the wage bill, you get rid of the shite.
We sign the shite on extensions to get sell-on value then struggle to sell them because they are shite
My God, that's depressingly accurate.We sign the shite on extensions to get sell-on value then struggle to sell them because they are shite
It's the Woody WayWe sign the shite on extensions to get sell-on value then struggle to sell them because they are shite
I dont see any of them as the same mould as Ander. Alan is probably the closest but isnt much younger and isnt as productive going forward with goals and assists. But he's probably a better passer.
After that its hard to come up with players who are currently doing exactly what Ander does for us now. They all tend to have different strengths and weaknesses to him despite any similarities.
Someone could potentially improve at United and end up doing the same as him. But nobody is currently doing the same as him
Of course overrating of Herrera is unbearable for you since you don't even know his position.
He's not a DM.
I was responding to some posters comment about Herrera does a much better job defensively and has better passing range than Matic which clearly isn’t true.Of course overrating of Herrera is unbearable for you since you don't even know his position.
He's not a DM.
Letting Herrera go, whilst putting Jones on a new 5 year contract is what (I fear) is the problem going forward for us.
This could also be the main problem Ole has moving forward. Sure, he has the contract now, but is he really going to push forward and eradicate the dross? I fear not, because I doubt he will have the backing to clear out what is required at the club, and thus when posters are claiming 'we should be challenging for the title in 2019/20', they are in dreamland, as we are far behind having the quality we need at this club regarding some players - longterm.
We simply chose the 'easy' option of paying wages to the likes of Jones instead of scouting a replacement and having to pay out many millions on a transfer fee. That mentality will not bring silverware back to the club.
It's like the old saying goes, 'do what you've have always done, and you'll get what you've always got'.
Sure, we'll do well against the teams we are expected to do well against, but unless we keep our best players, and rid the mediocre, we'll never truly compete on the big stage, and Ole needs to force that sentiment home to the board from this moment forward when rebuilding this squad.
This could also be the main problem Ole has moving forward. Sure, he has the contract now, but is he really going to push forward and eradicate the dross? I fear not, because I doubt he will have the backing to clear out what is required at the club, and thus when posters are claiming 'we should be challenging for the title in 2019/20', they are in dreamland, as we are far behind having the quality we need at this club regarding some players - longterm.
We simply chose the 'easy' option of paying wages to the likes of Jones instead of scouting a replacement and having to pay out many millions on a transfer fee. That mentality will not bring silverware back to the club.
It's like the old saying goes, 'do what you've have always done, and you'll get what you've always got'.
Sure, we'll do well against the teams we are expected to do well against, but unless we keep our best players, and rid the mediocre, we'll never truly compete on the big stage, and Ole needs to force that sentiment home to the board from this moment forward when rebuilding this squad.
Oh, it wasn't quoted.
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Like I said before, making more tackles doesn't mean he has better positioning. He does that because he constantly chases the ball, if not constantly then at least a lot of the time. That's his primary job, which is not at all what Matic is supposed to do. In fact, I see his active style as a problem at times because the midfleld gets bypassed easier against better passing teams. I'd rather have someone who will stay close to his position, maintain the shape and try to close down passing lanes, while being a lot more technical and better offensively. It really depends on how you want to play. My ideal is to sit back and not press but keep a compact unit that moves around cohesively and Herrera is more useful if you want to press.
Matic is a holding midfielder. The most important abilty for a holding midfielder is positioning, so obviously a player like Matic has to be better at it. Yes, being able to read the play is good for a pure ball winning DM like Herrera but it's a lot more important for any imobile player regardless of position. CB is a good example of this.
Herrera is just a role player who will probably never be a permanent starter for any top team. Which is why I think he is limited. You are free to come back to me if he ever becomes a starter for a big team like PSG or even us in the future. I mean cementing his place in the first 11, not being in and out like he has been here.
Is it a coincidence that we got our best league position the season when he wasn't a permanent fixture in the team and played much less than his previous poty season? Mourinho benched him for a more offensive player right away when we got Matic. Has that ever happened before where your supposed best player gets benched the following season? To me it's just telling how overrated he was by the fans that year. If an experienced manager comes in the summer, I have a feeling that the chances he will get a reduced role again are pretty high.
Don't get me wrong, he is great in his role, but I just don't think we need a player like him starting for us. I would do either what Mourinho did, and play with 2 CM's and have one extra offensive player or buy a more techical offensive minded CM to play next to Pogba. We probably can't replace Matic as well this summer so I would keep him for another year because he can probably do a job there.
It is a bit confusing with all the different position names, but I think Herrera is supposed to be called a DM. There are different kinds of defensive midfielders. Herrera is a pure ball winning DM and Matic is a holding midfielder.
Great post.
I have said this many times, I value him as a good squad player but wouldn't consider him to be a starting player that we can rely on every week.
Hopefully with Ole being sorted he'll sign a new contract soon.
Spot on. He has value for our team but I cant believe some here say he is the quality we need in our first 11.He has the quality to be a future important squad player but nothing more if we want to progress as team to a higher level.
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That's exactly the reason why he doesn't need to pay attention to his positioning in the role he plays, because he is free to go wherever the ball is pretty much.
I agree.
This isn't fifa. A DM doesn't have to have pace.
I want a DM with great mobility, doesn't necessarily mean they must be rapid though.
He got rid of Fellaini within 2 months, who was stinking up the place under three managers. Let's give him some time to clear out the rest, he's only been here a few months.
Yes he has freedom. Although he's spoken about certain tactical adjustments, like after he scored against Chelsea in his post match interview he talked about having more of an offensive role that game. So obviously it's about the match and what Ole is asking of him in each specific match.
But you can still show good positioning in the role, like he does, by being in the right place at the right time to make vital contributions defensively. In that same Chelsea match he made 3 clearances out of the box which is level with any of our other players for example. So just because he might have freedom doesn't mean he can't also show good positioning, because he does very often.
But interceptions certainly does, and Herreras statistics in this department blows others out of the water. It’s not just stats that backs this up either, his head is constantly on a swivel. He doesn’t just aimlessly press opponents, he has a look over his shoulder, builds a picture of who is behind him and what the passing avenues are and reacts accordingly.
The fact Herrera is having to be that last man, to track the attacking midfielder as regularly as he does, shows Matic isn’t doing his job to the level required, he isn’t positioning himself to sniff out this danger and is he a problem. It should be an oxymoron: a pressing, aggressive midfielder having to drop deep to protect the defence, but unfortunately it’s a reality. If anything, this makes his performances even more impressive. He isn’t able to concentrate on the pressing side of his game, but instead has to cover for a defensive midfielder who has seen his day come and go. It’s incredible really, that a team like PSG with the resources and options they have want to give Herrera a 3 year deal and a bumper contract, but so many here think he’s disposable.
Many seem to forget that prior to Matic’s arrival Herrera was our POTY playing as the deepest midfielder in a season where we had the best defensive record in the league.
I expect Herrera to take over from Matic assuming he stays. He's easily better.
@ivaldo sums it up perfectly
@ivaldo sums it up perfectly
A good PR move to get rid of the player who is strongly disliked by the fans and reminds everyone of Moyesian calamitous era. Pretty sure Ole would have been pressed to sell him.
Thanks chap!
If Herrera is easily better than him as you say, Ole wouldn't have played Matic in every games so far
That would make sense if Matic was currently in competition with Herrera. Matic is in competition with Herrera's replacement and in that case he is better than Fred or Pereira.If Herrera is easily better than him as you say, Ole wouldn't have played Matic in every games so far
He's had 3 capable midfielders for 3 spots. All 3 basically had to play every game when not injured.If Herrera is easily better than him as you say, Ole wouldn't have played Matic in every games so far
If he stays I expect us to sign a ball player for Herreras spot and for Herrera to phase Matic out.
It just reeks of contract negotiation, much like the Varane situation. I'd be surprised if either of them leave their respective clubs.
Disagreed.
Ole had so many opportunities to rest Matic and played Herrera in his position, especially in the games when we played Fred / Pereira but Ole has insisted on Matic and clear first choice since he arrived.
Ole doesn't rate Herrera playing in the holding mid role without a doubt, otherwise he would have definitely given him a game or 2 there at least
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