Colonel I'm Going to Shoot You in the Face is a personal favourite of mine.
Film Star Wars: Episode IX (The Rise of Skywalker) | Teaser Trailer Released
- Thread starter Hoof the ball
- Start date
"You're either with me or against me."
"...Only Sith deal in absolutes."
What the feck kind of logic was that? First off it's an absolute, secondly how can you attribute something like that to only one very, very small group of people? People go on about the high ground, but that bit made even less sense.
That's really not it as I happily admit to adoring many kids films as an adult, the Pixar and Ghibli films being standouts. Kids films are awesome and Star Wars absolutely falls under the kids/family film category. In fact a lot of the YA films of recent years (which I would consider kids films too) are darker, meaner and more morally complex than those in the Star Wars franchise.
The key point about the "it's for kids" argument is that the films are being made to serve a new audience, not just people who already know the Star Wars films. The idea that Luke Skywalker would be the character that this new generation of fans cares about is silly, someone like Rey is much more important to them becuase she's their hero. So hearing grown men complain that Luke was killed off or wasn't central enough is rather odd. It's not his story and this isn't their generation's Star Wars. Expecting the film to service their needs over that of a new audience rather misses the point.
Or at least that's the way it should be but it's hard to argue that a lot of the films (particularly the stand alone ones) haven't indulged in fan service.
Last edited:
Is Rey actually that popular though? Genuinely asking as other people in this thread have said that the toys etc. aren’t actually selling that well.
Personally I don’t care that Luke was killed off, in fact I would have been happier if these three movies completely omitted the Skywalker family rather than trying to build another three movies around them.
The issue for me is that the characters they’re trying to build the new movies around are awful. Rey, Ren, Finn, Rose, all of them are bland, boring characters who for me don’t generate any excitement or spark my imagination. The only vaguely cool character in the recent movies is Po. That’s beside the point though, I don’t see why pointing out that these characters are not well done should be defended by saying they’re meant for children.
I don't mind Kylo. He's the most entertaining character of the new cast for me.
Poe is good too, and I think Finn worked in TFA but then was really bad in TLJ.
Rose is the worst.
Yeah I think I’m being a bit unfair to Finn. I did think he was one of the better characters in TFA, but since they worked in the dynamic with Rose he’s just been awful.
I just can’t get behind Kylo. The guy is an awful awful villain. “Oh daddy didn’t love me properly so let me turn to the dark side” is the sum total of his motivations. He’s such a whiny, annoying character. At least with Anakin he had proper motivation to be such an emotional person; growing up as a slave, having to leave his mother and then losing her. What has Ren suffered to make him such a little crybaby?
They sent him to Jedi Boarding School
I like him as a villain. I think he's quite realistic.
He's an immature, whiney kid who wants to be respected/taken seriously. Strikes me as a genuinely bad person who is desperate to prove himself at all costs and hates authority, quite a realistic portrayal of an edgy bastard who has powers he doesn't really respect or care for learning the short way. Wanted power and wanted it quickly.
He's a wannabee, basically. He wants so much to be like Vader (feared & respected) that he goes with the whole masked persona. That's why it gets to him so much when Rey exposes him for what he is, a little kid trying to get attention by playing the big bad villain.
That makes him all the more dangerous as a villain though, because he's unstable and unpredictable. I don't think we see enough of what Snoke did to turn him, what he was saying to him that god in Kylo's head etc, and definitely it would've been nice if that was explored more.
I get why people don't like him though, because he's not that genuinely intimidating, cold villain like Vader was. I think he's very interesting in a different way though.
Indeed, he's an entitled cnut, and that's sort of the point. Villains need to have proper motivation to be effective, but that motivation doesn't always need to come from a good place, and doesn't need to involve a tragic backstory. I can understand a lot of the complaints about how the heroes are fairly bland and dull, but Ren's probably the most interesting part of the new trilogy.
Poor writing.
TBF that can actually be pretty traumatic for a fictional character as we can see from the response to the films.
Criticising the characters is fine, nobody (young or old) has to like any of them, or any of the films, at all.
It's saying things like "Luke Skywalker was the only character left that people cared about" (as the post I was initially responding to suggested) that's odd as a lot of the younger audience these films are trying to introduce to the franchise might never have seen that character before.
Everyone gets their opinion, it's just strikes me as funny when older fans expect their opinion to be the ones the filmmakers care more about, or assume that the character they grew up with must be more interesting to younger viewers than the character they're growing up with. Saying they're meant for children in this context just means "they're meant for people who care less about the older character than you do and are written from that perspective".
That was quite a good assessment of his character. I get that that’s what they’re going for, it just doesn’t do anything for me because, as you said, for all the evil that he tries to portray, he doesn’t come off the least bit intimidating or anything like that. For me he just ends up being annoying.
He’s trying to play the big bad villain and absolutely failing at it, like the scene where whatever the clone troopers are called now saw him losing his temper and slashing away at a room, and they just gave each other a knowing look and walked away, as if that was a normal occurrence. I just can’t get behind a villain like that.
And yet the OT characters were used heavily in the marketing for these films, and after the mess that Rian Johnson left they've reacted by bringing back Lando & Palpatine.
Whilst the stand alones have been a prequel to the OT and a Han Solo film, with rumours about Boba Fett & Kenobi. And they've also worked on animated versions of the OT storyline.
They seem to be focusing a lot on the older characters, probably due to the fact that the OT merch still is the biggest seller.
I liked Finn a lot personally. I think one thing JJ Abrams actually did a really good job of was the new characters. I'm pretty neutral to Rey I guess but my niece is a big fan
He's by a distance the best thing about the new movies. Vader is still the best villain, but he's far better than the film versions of Maul, Dooku, Grievous(!) and even Palpy.
Same old rehashing business. feck off.
What a twat.
What a strange thread by that guy. He was clearly deeply hurt by Star Wars at some point.
Interesting...
This is taken from Page 42 of the Making of Revenge of the Sith book, which contains storyline and dialogue from George Lucas' rough draft of the script....
It says a lot about Palpatine's ability to manipulate the force, which could account for his being alive.
This is taken from Page 42 of the Making of Revenge of the Sith book, which contains storyline and dialogue from George Lucas' rough draft of the script....
Not only is it George Lucas canon, but it's also New Star Wars Canon as of Dec 2018.
It says a lot about Palpatine's ability to manipulate the force, which could account for his being alive.
Not a fan myself despite McDairmid's performance but did Palp really defeat Yoda? Wasn't it for the most part a draw?
In my opinion ? He kicked his ass right from the start. First the green guy got electrocuted by the famous electric hands then he fell from that senate's speech platform which was quite high, while old Palps managed to hold on to something and honestly, Emperor was entertained throughout entire duel despite having whole skin burned and deformed not so long ago.
Wasn't a flawless victory but a victory it was and after all Yoda escaped through ventilation shaft to banish himself in the end.
Swings and roundabouts, innit.
He made Jedi Council look like a complete bunch of half senile old pricks when he turned Skywalker to the dark side, who by the way just slaughtered entire new generations of younger padawans.
If I was him I would be laughing at their faces like he always does.
Sidious tried to flee first before Yoda flipped in front of him. This was after launching him across the room with the Force. Yoda was also overpowering him in the lightsaber fight, then shut the laughing up when he launched the senate seat back at him, he also managed to contain the Force lightning before it exploded sending them both flying. Only Palpatine having a bar to grab onto saved him from falling off it too.
I used to think Mace Windu had Palpatine on the ropes, until I read the following :-
Actually the two of them at some point realized that Yoda was not powerful enough to defeat Sidious. That realization would make Sidious push it harder and harder, while Yoda came to the conclusion that he would be defeated.
We can see it in the movie, when Yoda needs to gather a lot of strength to reflect Sidious’ lightning, and after that he looks too tired. On the other hand, Sidious is laughing, basically just playing with Yoda and enjoying himself.
It is also confirmed that Sidious realized Yoda's lack of strength by this quote from Matthew Stover's novelisation (emphasis mine):
The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength.The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough only to whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow.
When Bail Organa comes to pick him up, he says:
YODA: Failed I have.
Makes sense. Windu had him in a pure duel, but Palpatine's Force power would have eventually swung it anyway.
Indeed, but he didn't fell and the consequence of this tiny detail was him being able to convey that famous speech in the senate where he showed Jedi Council and Republic as terorrists trying to murder him.
As much as I loved the novelisation, that's not actually what ended up happening on screen. The lightning exploded and they both went flying, Sidious was laughing and Yoda gave him "a look" just before it happened. Several times during the fight Yoda stopped the laughing and caused a bit of panic. It's probably just them changing their mind and not wanting to make Yoda look weak on screen though.
Superb read.
He was also able to contain his force abilities through years so the great masters of Jedi Council which were few blocks away from Palpatine's office couldn't even sense when he's having a bunga bunga party.
Someone who's read the novelisation of RotS! Reading Labyrinth of Evil followed by RotS fleshed out so much of Anakin's motivation!
He also was responsible for 'creating' Anakin in the Force and Anakin didn't even have an inkling that Palpatine was his, uh, father so to speak.
A lot of people on here have read it, there was a lot of discussion around the novels at one point. I know @Revan has read it at least.I've read it a couple of times, but not in a long time. A long time. I got it on Kindle to re-read, but haven't gotten around to it yet as every time I feel like it Disney manage to enrage me again. Some day I'll read Shatterpoint again too. I've not tried any of the new stuff as some of it just sounds either really bad or very YA.
Star Wars the greatest rape story ever... and this guy is always in good mood throughout the whole prequel trilogy for some reason.
He also was responsible for 'creating' Anakin in the Force and Anakin didn't even have an inkling that Palpatine was his, uh, father so to speak.
Redefines the definition of Force choke, doesn't it...Star Wars the greatest rape story ever... and this guy is always in good mood throughout the whole prequel trilogy for some reason.
/QUOTE]
Redefines the definition of Force choke, doesn't it...
No wonder Vader is dressed in BDSM outfit.
I'm still hoping that one day they decide to turn Shatterpoint into a movie. I'm fully convinced that, of all side projects they could do in terms of movies, this would be a tremendous one!
I've read it a couple of times, but not in a long time. A long time. I got it on Kindle to re-read, but haven't gotten around to it yet as every time I feel like it Disney manage to enrage me again. Some day I'll read Shatterpoint again too. I've not tried any of the new stuff as some of it just sounds either really bad or very YA.
I've read a few from the new canon. It's a mix. There's some excellent mature and dark stuff, and then some YA stuff that's a bit more hokey. Of all the new canon I've enjoyed so far, Phasma is probably at the top. Made her character so compelling. Almost too compelling for the movie version, which doesn't demonstrate her strength and cunning anywhere near as she's portrayed in the book.
Cold, indifferent, even psychopathic in her disregard for anyone else, even her own people.
No wonder Vader is dressed in BDSM outfit.