Why United fans should be positive - Explaining recent decisions

[Maticmaker]

Its not really a question of explaining decisions, as others have pointed out some have been unavoidable. Ole is now aware (if he wasn't already) of the problems he and the club face;

a) like the previous manager he faces a 'hotch-potch' squad of players left over from previous managerial reigns, stretching all the way back to SAF;
b) the highest earners in this squad are not performing on a regular basis, so we repeat the Rooney problem, in effect in a way we have swapped Wayne for Pogba and Sanchez; this must have an effect on other players who are only earning half what the top earners are;
c) its not just a question of how much money Woodward makes available to spend, its also what conditions he attaches to Ole's spending plans; clearly there were issues of this sort with Mourinho;
d) hard decisions have to be made with some players, many of whom are fans 'favourities' but the best time to do this is at the beginning, he made a start with Fellaini, but this has to continue and it will cause some fan resentment.
e) the overall fitness of the squad is suspect, when we 'press' its not properly co-ordinated and only lasts for a few minutes, similarly the misunderstandings between players e.g. De gea's distribution to players who are obviously not ready to receive the ball, a continuing problem of ineffectual corner taking, the absence of breaks from midfield beyond the front men, into the box; when/if Lingard plays and makes his cross-field runs someone has to take advantage and use the space created, we need some plan in respect of free kicks, it all seems to be confusing, even to those taking the kicks, etc.

All the above is nothing new, but now these matters have to be addressed, lets hope Ole leads the way.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Defensively ? Would getting sent off needlessly vs Wolves count ? Genuine question btw.
I am tired to watch him play is all and not much gained short nor long term by it

Actually, yeah, good point about Wolves.

Young has been shit, recently, that can't really be denied. It's just that I've seen nothing from Dalot to convince me he could handle 90 minutes at fullback against a decent PL team, never mind Barca away from home.

Young's form has been terrible recently but - unlike Dalot - he's put in loads of performances this season which give the impression he might have been our best option in Barcelona. Ole was taking a gamble either way. Had he gone with Dalot and we had to endure Messi repeatedly breezing past him as easily as mediocre PL wingers have managed this season then Ole would be getting crucified for that decision too. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Vadim]

6 years and counting, in fairness. I'd say we shown a lot of patience since Fergie retired. I'm not saying lets all consume ourselves in rage but the lack of patience could be justified now.

Ole hasn’t been here 6 years though. We’ve had managers come in and try to install their defensive or possession based philosophies.

Judge Ole end of next season surely? He’s then had 1.5 years in the job, brought in his own players etc.

And if we don’t win the league for another 6 years, so be it. Like I said in another thread yesterday, we don’t have a god given right to be consistently winning league titles. Football is cyclical.

Imagine being a Spurs fan, Arsenal fan, Everton fan etc? They haven’t won feck all in forever either.

 

[Tom Cato]

Completely disagree, we have bad away form and bad form at home which has been persistent for months. If our current methodology of playing transpires into next season Ole will be gone by Xmas. All of our attacking players seem incapable of being a threat against the opposition, we have become very one dimensional if it's not a counter attack we are inept tactically, something again I think will transition into next season.

Results have gone well for Ole I'll give him that but a large majority of the performances have been defensive and underwhelming. We have to look at what Ole gives us two three years down the line and in my opinion it's not enough to close the gap between City / Liverpool.

http://solskjaertabellen.com/ <- This is the table since Ole came. The large majority of the games see us here after 16 games under Ole in the PL:


1 Liverpool 17 12 4 1 40 13 27 40

2 Manchester City 16 13 0 3 38 12 26 39

3 Manchester United 16 12 2 2 34 15 19 38

I want to point out something:

1. This is Mourinhos squad. Not Ole's squad. Sanchez is one of the biggest bad-purchases this club has seen in recent history. I love the player but not his current form.

2. Liverpool have Jürgen Klopp, a master of the trade that builds a team with identity like no one else. In my eyes he is the best manager in the game today. The purchase of Van Dijk took Liverpools defense from an issue to a juggenaut. He is the single reason why Liverpool are as good as they are. A literal bedrock on which to lay your team on.

3. The club will be spending big this summer. There will be players coming in to replace and strengthen the squad. Big time gamechangers. Look out for Jadon Sancho this transfer window, all rumour mills seem to hint that he is on top of Oles purchase list:
4. We need our own Virgil. Napolis kalidou koulibaly is a solid player that will likely be targeted.

5. I want the club to have a serious look at Martin Ødegaard. - He's playing lights out and is one of the best players in the Eeredivisie this season. He's finally taken the next step everyone have been waiting for. Just take a look at these playerstats: https://no.whoscored.com/Regions/15...erStatistics/Netherlands-Eredivisie-2018-2019 <- He's currently ranked ahead of Frenkie De Jong, who is a year older and is joining Barcelona next season. If he continues this progress he will be back at Madrid challenging for a squad position in a season or two. Now is the time to go after him if ever.

6. We're in the end-tail of a very long, mentally and physically challenging season. Ole has adressed concernes about the squads physical fitness and I expect the offseason to be one that involves a lot of training for the boys.

7. Its obvious to everyone that the current squad will not do the job. Its not that the best XI cant beat anyone, but that our best X can't. We have no depth that can be relied on to perform. We don't have a Messi, Ronaldo, De Bruyne, Salah, etc. We need our go to guy. Is Pogba the man? Pogba is a world class player, but he's also a world class pouter. When he's frustrated it becomes so painfully apparent on his bodylanguage. When he's on, just forget about stopping him.

8. Mason Greenwood. Is going to be great. Watch out for a breakout season next year from him.

 

[Acquire Me]

Good post @Tom Cato

 

[Irish Jet]

There is very little to be positive about with the current boardroom setup.

If there’s one thing Mourinho, LVG and Moyes were right about it’s the shambolic setup from the top of the club. This has carried on into Ole’s reign too – Our guy was Pochettino when he was hired as interim manager by all accounts. Probably for no other reason than he seems good. A few spectacular results and we make an emotional decision to give Ole the job. A few results later and it already looks premature, there was nothing to lose by waiting and assessing the situation in the summer. It was already a huge red flag that Woodward, and now the long promised DOF who even made that decision. The situation is not sustainable – Woodward’s track record of failure is there for all to see.

We’ll struggle to get the shite off the books because of mismanagement. We’ll probably target the infamous statement signing – And It will probably be Gareth Bale, because Woodward.

 

[Acquire Me]

There is very little to be positive about with the current boardroom setup.

If there’s one thing Mourinho, LVG and Moyes were right about it’s the shambolic setup from the top of the club. This has carried on into Ole’s reign too – Our guy was Pochettino when he was hired as interim manager by all accounts. Probably for no other reason than he seems good. A few spectacular results and we make an emotional decision to give Ole the job. A few results later and it already looks premature, there was nothing to lose by waiting and assessing the situation in the summer. It was already a huge red flag that Woodward, and now the long promised DOF who even made that decision. The situation is not sustainable – Woodward’s track record of failure is there for all to see.

We’ll struggle to get the shite off the books because of mismanagement. We’ll probably target the infamous statement signing – And It will probably be Gareth Bale, because Woodward.

People going nuts at this stage is not premature?

 

[Kag]

This is a good thread. As if often the case, @Wumminator.

 

[Irish Jet]

People going nuts at this stage is not premature?

I'm not going nuts and these complaints certainly aren't premature. The issues I've outlined have been issues for 6 years.

I'm not saying we made a mistake with the Ole appointment itself, just that is was absolutely ridiculous to make the decision when we did. We should have waited - We should have already had a DOF in to make the call and ensure it's his guy to work with. Instead Woodward is making the decisive football decisions again - Undermining whoever is appointed as DOF, if that ever even happens. It's a shambles.

 

[kouroux]

Actually, yeah, good point about Wolves.

Young has been shit, recently, that can't really be denied. It's just that I've seen nothing from Dalot to convince me he could handle 90 minutes at fullback against a decent PL team, never mind Barca away from home.

Young's form has been terrible recently but - unlike Dalot - he's put in loads of performances this season which give the impression he might have been our best option in Barcelona. Ole was taking a gamble either way. Had he gone with Dalot and we had to endure Messi repeatedly breezing past him as easily as mediocre PL wingers have managed this season then Ole would be getting crucified for that decision too. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Now I'll agree with that.
The way I see is that even if Dalot isn't much better than Young, at least he could benefit from a game like this while contributing possibly to an attack.

I'm not going nuts and these complaints certainly aren't premature. The issues I've outlined have been issues for 6 years.

I'm not saying we made a mistake with the Ole appointment itself, just that is was absolutely ridiculous to make the decision when we did. We should have waited - We should have already had a DOF in to make the call and ensure it's his guy to work with. Instead Woodward is making the decisive football decisions again - Undermining whoever is appointed as DOF, if that ever even happens. It's a shambles.

This was always my understanding when this supposed hunt for a DOF began, I don't understand what brought the change of pace

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm sorry Wumminator but this is exactly why I'm not at all positive because we still have to have a player of Young's caliber cover every position on the field possible and that has been the case for at least 4 or 5 years now. Why are we still in this state, or rather why is our squad still in this state? I'm not blaming Ole for it, he hasn't even been at the club for half a year of course it's not his problem. The biggest problem at our club is the CEO who his so out of his depth that it's not even funny anymore. I was calling for his head after the LvG disaster and he has changed nothing in a way that I would say "oh yeah he is starting to turn the clubs fortune around".



Are you sure about that? You know that a feck ton in the current market is 500M, what Real is planning to spend, not 200M what is rumored that we will spend. In today's market 150-200M is a normal transfer window for an elite club. And it's not only about having money to burn it's also about making the right choices when assembling the squad in the long run and I just don't see a coherent plan or strategy in place in that regard, again all we do now is we trust Ole with the money and hope he will last long enough to make that squad work. What happens if he fails top 4 next season and Woody decides he now wants Poch instead, another rebuild? We can't keep going on like this in terms of squad building and leadership at this club.

I know you mean well but there is little to nothing positive I can see as long as the cancer called Woodward is in charge of this club.

500 million Talk about spoilt fans.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm not going nuts and these complaints certainly aren't premature. The issues I've outlined have been issues for 6 years.

I'm not saying we made a mistake with the Ole appointment itself, just that is was absolutely ridiculous to make the decision when we did. We should have waited - We should have already had a DOF in to make the call and ensure it's his guy to work with. Instead Woodward is making the decisive football decisions again - Undermining whoever is appointed as DOF, if that ever even happens. It's a shambles.

That's something that has me bemused too. Although I think our results under Ole forced his hand. And it made sense to make him permanent before the inevitable downturn when a squad that is obviously not fit for purpose started dropping points/losing against the best teams around.

In a parallel universe where Ole was still caretaker, can you imagine the sense of indecision/crisis at the club right now?!

 

[Christie]

I’m sorry I can’t accept posts like this.

What should the team have done instead? Who else should have played who is obviously better than Young? Do we just release every defender at once and sign new ones? Please explain what they should have done instead.

We could have, you know, bought a new RB in the January window? Or an established RB instead of Dalot? There are many, many things the team could have done instead of ending up in this sad situation and saying that we had no choice.

And stop the fake positivity. If it is not Ole's fault that we are shit, then we are in much bigger trouble because the ones at fault are still at the club poisoning us with their toxicity.


Also, why are we still playing pin the blame on the man? As if one man is the cause of all our problems, and getting him out would solve everything. It's all Moyes' fault, it's all LVG's fault, it's all Mourinho's fault. It should have been proven by now that one man is not the cause of the cancer and you can't just remove him and hope that everything will be peachy.

United is basically a big corporation, and in big corporations the responsibilities are diffused and many people have a role to play in success of failure. Trying to pin it all on the manager is like trying to pin the blame of the 2 Boeing crashes on one man. That is ridiculous, the accidents aren't caused by just one factor, and even if you look deep at Boeing there isn't one guy to blame for all the mess. Some guys decided the company should go this way and the other idiots just followed along instead of doing their jobs and standing up to them. This is what causes disasters.

Our own disaster is obviously have the same root causes but we keep trying to pin it on the manager, saying this is his fault, that is not his fault. I see no reason to be positive if there is no massive upheavel in our board, since the same shit will continue. If it is not Ole's fault for everything, we should be in further despair.

 

[cyberman]

There are certain fan on here who defend the failures of rival managers and sides over our own. It's honestly ridiculous.
We have a lot to look forward to if we have a successful recruitment drive in the summer. Don't let these football Einsteins fool anybody into thinking otherwise

 

[Inigo Montoya]

We could have, you know, bought a new RB in the January window? Or an established RB instead of Dalot? There are many, many things the team could have done instead of ending up in this sad situation and saying that we had no choice.

And stop the fake positivity. If it is not Ole's fault that we are shit, then we are in much bigger trouble because the ones at fault are still at the club poisoning us with their toxicity.


Also, why are we still playing pin the blame on the man? As if one man is the cause of all our problems, and getting him out would solve everything. It's all Moyes' fault, it's all LVG's fault, it's all Mourinho's fault. It should have been proven by now that one man is not the cause of the cancer and you can't just remove him and hope that everything will be peachy.

United is basically a big corporation, and in big corporations the responsibilities are diffused and many people have a role to play in success of failure. Trying to pin it all on the manager is like trying to pin the blame of the 2 Boeing crashes on one man. That is ridiculous, the accidents aren't caused by just one factor, and even if you look deep at Boeing there isn't one guy to blame for all the mess. Some guys decided the company should go this way and the other idiots just followed along instead of doing their jobs and standing up to them. This is what causes disasters.

Our own disaster is obviously have the same root causes but we keep trying to pin it on the manager, saying this is his fault, that is not his fault. I see no reason to be positive if there is no massive upheavel in our board, since the same shit will continue. If it is not Ole's fault for everything, we should be in further despair.

There were no ‘good’ RBs available in the transfer window

There will be no board upheaval. You don’t have a clue how business works

 

[Christie]

After over 6 years of failure, there are certain fans on here who defend the failures of our board and sides and covering up the real reasons. It's honestly ridiculous.
I understand that Utd is a great source of enterterainment for us and we want have a lot to look forward to, but to even hope we can a successful recruitment drive in the summer given our recent record is ridiculous. Don't let these football Einsteins fool anybody into thinking otherwise.

 

[Christie]

There were no ‘good’ RBs available in the transfer window

There will be no board upheaval. You don’t have a clue how business works

Yeah, the good old "there is no value in the market" argument.

This is exactly why there is no reason for positivity. There will be no board upheaval. I fully understand.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Ole hasn’t been here 6 years though. We’ve had managers come in and try to install their defensive or possession based philosophies.

Judge Ole end of next season surely? He’s then had 1.5 years in the job, brought in his own players etc.

And if we don’t win the league for another 6 years, so be it. Like I said in another thread yesterday, we don’t have a god given right to be consistently winning league titles. Football is cyclical.

Imagine being a Spurs fan, Arsenal fan, Everton fan etc? They haven’t won feck all in forever either.

I agree we should be patient. Thats why I was so impressed with the sounds coming out of old trafford after Mourinho's firing, it was we are going to take out time, appoint a director of football who will conduct a extensive search for the next manager and get a cohesive transfer policy in place. It sounded for the first time really the club was recognising its mistakes and taking the time to address them, its a lot easier to be patient when you can see things are been done properly.

Instead we made a rash decision fallen into the trap countless clubs have and appointed the intreim manager, before he had properly been tested, throw the manger the director of football idea out the window, along with extensive manager search and the long term cohesive transfer policy.

When you don't feel the people running the club know what they are doing its harder to be patient.

 

[rotherham_red]

Last night was a very sombre experience for United fans. We got battered and bruised by a team who are quite simply on another level to us. The fact is though we are on the way back and it was fecking great to just to get to this part of the competition. I notice that the posters around here are starting to turn on Ole and it is absolutely madness in my eyes. I thought I'd make a sane thread to cancel out all the nonsense.

1) The Young situation - There was no better choice than starting Ashley Young last night.
It's as simple as it says. Now that doesn't mean that Ashley Young played well or that Ashley Young didn't make a mistake, it just simply means that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer made the logical choice. He couldn't play Eric Bailly at right back. We have seen how that turns out. Luke Shaw was gone. Valencia is on his way out. Darmian has played six times total this year and hasn't been seen for months. Rojo just got torn to shreds against West Ham. The only viable alternative is Dalot and realistically he has shown less defensively than Young. Ole could do nothing about this situation.

2) Our recent contract extensions - Jones/Young will feature next year.
I see a lot of posts complaining about these two having their contracts extended. Well the simple fact is, while they are no longer good enough for United, they are better than their alternatives. Behind them in the pecking order are: Darmian, Rojo, Bailly and Valencia. At least three of them will leave next summer. Realistically our defensive options without these two contract extensions could be: Lindelof, Smalling, Shaw and Dalot. We NEED more squad players than that, especially with our injury problems. Due to our deficiencies else where it would be madness to sign 3/4 defenders. So Young/Jones getting a contract makes sense.

3.) If we are going to play like this we should have kept Mourinho
I am seeing more and more of these types of posts. Mourinho was done. He had just got battered by Liverpool and had fallen out with the squad. The key here is though is that Pogba and Rashford weren't performing for Mourinho. They were our best players and Pogba had been dropped. It is evident that Mourinho had a toxic relationship with the players and we can't just get rid of the whole squad (some of you may wish this was possible)

4.) Ed Woodwood hasn't backed us in the transfer market
When Mourinho took over at United, we had been spending just over 210 million on the wages of our players. We've just announced we have wages of 296 million without Sanchez being here for a full year) Mourinho spent over 400 million. He recouped around 100 million. So on average every year he was here had had a 100 million net spend while increasing the wage bill by about 30 million a year. For those figures we have Fred, Dalot, Sanchez, Lukaku, Lindelof, Bailly and Pogba to show for it. Are those players worth the money? No. Now we hear rumours (nothing confirmed) that Mourinho wanted Maguire, Perisic et al. Would these have improved us? Woodwood was in the unenviable position of making more signings that wouldn't have improved us or dismissing a manager who had just finished second. Either one might have put us in a worst position than we are now.

5.) We will spend a feckton this summer.
Not really a decision but important to say. Just as important as net spend is the wage bill. We are looking at reducing this massively. Players who aren't contributing enough are going, Mata, Herrera, Valencia are pretty certain to leave. Rojo, Darmian, Periera will likely follow them out the door. We've already recouped money for Fellaini. We are for the first time in ages have a proper clear out. You might think you hear this every year, but this time we know that contracts are expiring. This should clear out our wage bill massively. Furthermore with our relative lack of spend this past summer and the clear deficiencies in our squad it is obvious where we need to buy. I expect a 200+ million pound summer. The Glazers have been shown to back new managers when they need it.

6.) Giving Ole the job.
This is a no brainer. When he was hired no-one expected us to be challenging for the top four or get past PSG. He accomplished both and the players and fans loved him. There was no other option. Some people keep talking about waiting till summer.. what would this have accomplished? There will be no big name managers leaving their post this summer and Ole might rightly have told us to feck off if we waited. So what benefit would that have done? Since he took the job he has us pretty much top of the premier league. Our recent form isn't great but we've player Barcelona twice, Wolves twice and Arsenal away. They are all games that ANY manager would struggle with.

We have to be positive. We are in a much better position now than we have been for the last four/five years as far as I can see. We have a manager who has already done a great job. We have money available and we have space in our squad. Even though watching City/Liverpool push on is galling, this is not Ole's fault and we just need to put everything into preparing for next year now.

Spot on. I'd also like to add that missing out on Top 4 is ultimately better for us in the long run than making it this season, simply because Ole will do in the Europa, what Emery did this season (and Wenger the previous season tbf) and what Jose should have done in 2016 and play the kids in the early stages, giving them proper game time and developing them. The likes of Nelson and Smith-Rowe for example, had their development massively accelerated by the run in the EL last season and are now getting senior level experience week in and week out in European leagues. There's no way that would have happened otherwise.

The Glazers are also probably more likely to spend big if we miss out on Top 4 as well as we'll have to play catch up to the rest. The run of form right now will have put paid to any potential delusions Ed might have had about the quality of this squad and he will have to rectify it properly. Thankfully, Ole and Phelan look like they have their heads screwed on and aren't going to spend for the sake of it.

It'll take at least two seasons before we see anything resembling proper success IMO, but if they are properly backed (not just in terms of money, but time and patience to build a proper structure to the football side of the business) it'll be worth it.

 

[Suedesi]

2014 - April; sacked Moyes, cue positivity. Hired van Gaal. Total football with a philosophy. Talks of a warchest.
2015 - April; think we were 3rd at one point, maybe 2nd. Things looked OK. Will spend more money.
2016 - April; totally failing in the league, atleast we had an FA cup final and Mourinho was looking likely to be appointed. More talks of a warchest.
2017 - April; again, league form was shite, but we had the EL final and EFL. Mojo back? Likely to spend more money.
2018 - April; 2nd the league, still doom and gloom given the CL. Had an FA cup final coming up. Again talks of spending more.
2019 - April; league form not so bad, still lingering around 6th, similar problems as before. Biggest warchest available.

Honestly, we've been here before. There have been numerous false dawns and I don't see how anything we've witnessed over the last four months would illustrate our fortunes are about to change. We're literally becoming the thing we feared most - Liverpool.

If Woodward/Glazers are savvy enough to extract hundreds of millions of pounds/euros/dollars from commercial partners, playing the fans is child's play to them. They will brief the media, craft a story and blame the manager/xyz player as appropriate. Round and round we go...

 

[RedFish]

Last night was a very sombre experience for United fans. We got battered and bruised by a team who are quite simply on another level to us. The fact is though we are on the way back and it was fecking great to just to get to this part of the competition. I notice that the posters around here are starting to turn on Ole and it is absolutely madness in my eyes. I thought I'd make a sane thread to cancel out all the nonsense.

1) The Young situation - There was no better choice than starting Ashley Young last night.
It's as simple as it says. Now that doesn't mean that Ashley Young played well or that Ashley Young didn't make a mistake, it just simply means that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer made the logical choice. He couldn't play Eric Bailly at right back. We have seen how that turns out. Luke Shaw was gone. Valencia is on his way out. Darmian has played six times total this year and hasn't been seen for months. Rojo just got torn to shreds against West Ham. The only viable alternative is Dalot and realistically he has shown less defensively than Young. Ole could do nothing about this situation.

2) Our recent contract extensions - Jones/Young will feature next year.
I see a lot of posts complaining about these two having their contracts extended. Well the simple fact is, while they are no longer good enough for United, they are better than their alternatives. Behind them in the pecking order are: Darmian, Rojo, Bailly and Valencia. At least three of them will leave next summer. Realistically our defensive options without these two contract extensions could be: Lindelof, Smalling, Shaw and Dalot. We NEED more squad players than that, especially with our injury problems. Due to our deficiencies else where it would be madness to sign 3/4 defenders. So Young/Jones getting a contract makes sense.

3.) If we are going to play like this we should have kept Mourinho
I am seeing more and more of these types of posts. Mourinho was done. He had just got battered by Liverpool and had fallen out with the squad. The key here is though is that Pogba and Rashford weren't performing for Mourinho. They were our best players and Pogba had been dropped. It is evident that Mourinho had a toxic relationship with the players and we can't just get rid of the whole squad (some of you may wish this was possible)

4.) Ed Woodwood hasn't backed us in the transfer market
When Mourinho took over at United, we had been spending just over 210 million on the wages of our players. We've just announced we have wages of 296 million without Sanchez being here for a full year) Mourinho spent over 400 million. He recouped around 100 million. So on average every year he was here had had a 100 million net spend while increasing the wage bill by about 30 million a year. For those figures we have Fred, Dalot, Sanchez, Lukaku, Lindelof, Bailly and Pogba to show for it. Are those players worth the money? No. Now we hear rumours (nothing confirmed) that Mourinho wanted Maguire, Perisic et al. Would these have improved us? Woodwood was in the unenviable position of making more signings that wouldn't have improved us or dismissing a manager who had just finished second. Either one might have put us in a worst position than we are now.

5.) We will spend a feckton this summer.
Not really a decision but important to say. Just as important as net spend is the wage bill. We are looking at reducing this massively. Players who aren't contributing enough are going, Mata, Herrera, Valencia are pretty certain to leave. Rojo, Darmian, Periera will likely follow them out the door. We've already recouped money for Fellaini. We are for the first time in ages have a proper clear out. You might think you hear this every year, but this time we know that contracts are expiring. This should clear out our wage bill massively. Furthermore with our relative lack of spend this past summer and the clear deficiencies in our squad it is obvious where we need to buy. I expect a 200+ million pound summer. The Glazers have been shown to back new managers when they need it.

6.) Giving Ole the job.
This is a no brainer. When he was hired no-one expected us to be challenging for the top four or get past PSG. He accomplished both and the players and fans loved him. There was no other option. Some people keep talking about waiting till summer.. what would this have accomplished? There will be no big name managers leaving their post this summer and Ole might rightly have told us to feck off if we waited. So what benefit would that have done? Since he took the job he has us pretty much top of the premier league. Our recent form isn't great but we've player Barcelona twice, Wolves twice and Arsenal away. They are all games that ANY manager would struggle with.

We have to be positive. We are in a much better position now than we have been for the last four/five years as far as I can see. We have a manager who has already done a great job. We have money available and we have space in our squad. Even though watching City/Liverpool push on is galling, this is not Ole's fault and we just need to put everything into preparing for next year now.

Thanks for that post, I needed that.

 

[Vadim]

I agree we should be patient. Thats why I was so impressed with the sounds coming out of old trafford after Mourinho's firing, it was we are going to take out time, appoint a director of football who will conduct a extensive search for the next manager and get a cohesive transfer policy in place. It sounded for the first time really the club was recognising its mistakes and taking the time to address them, its a lot easier to be patient when you can see things are been done properly.

Instead we made a rash decision fallen into the trap countless clubs have and appointed the intreim manager, before he had properly been tested, throw the manger the director of football idea out the window, along with extensive manager search and the long term cohesive transfer policy.

When you don't feel the people running the club know what they are doing its harder to be patient.

I see your point but the owners really had no choice but to appoint Solsjkaer after his absolutely incredible run of results with THOSE players.

We still don’t know what the owners, Woodward, Solsjkaer etc have planned for the summer. We don’t know if and when a DoF will happen.

Some of the guys here are panicking and posting nonsense.

Let’s see what the next few months bring. If we start next season with Smalling and Jones as our no.1 CB pairing, Mata on the right wing and Young at RB, I’ll be the first to tear into the club.

But right now, in this moment - none of us know what’s going on behind the scenes.

 

[MackRobinson]

Yeah, the good old "there is no value in the market" argument.

This is exactly why there is no reason for positivity. There will be no board upheaval. I fully understand.

What quality RB was available in January?

 

[jem]

The Young situation is not excusable. He is playing because he is one of Ole's favourites, if performances had any weight in the decision he wouldn't be playing. Extending his contract and the contract of jones is just rewarding mediocrity.

Beyond that I'll give Ole the benefit of the doubt for now.

What makes you say that? Who is he keeping out of the team? Dalot looks very promising but also very raw. There's no telling what could have happened to him had he started against Barca.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I see your point but the owners really had no choice but to appoint Solsjkaer after his absolutely incredible run of results with THOSE players.

Disagree, they did have a choice, especially at the point the did when he had lost 3 games in a row and the attacking football had stopped. If after that dip he'd come back guns blazing and turned it around then yeah maybe they wound't have had a choice. Look at it this way if Ole hadn't got the job at the point he did, would you still say they had no point but to appoint Ole now? of course not.

So fact they didn't wait to see how Ole would turn that around, is why people are panicking, its further sign as structure at our club doesn't know what its doing just making more rash decisions

We still don’t know what the owners, Woodward, Solsjkaer etc have planned for the summer. We don’t know if and when a DoF will happen.

Some of the guys here are panicking and posting nonsense.

If we were going to hire a director of football it would of happened before appointing a manager and in time to make a plan for the summer. that has now passed. If we do it now their input in the summer transfer will be rushed.

So instead we must Trust in Ole whose only experience of big transfer is at cardiff which was a disaster, and Woodward who has been doing it for 6 years, with very mixed results.

Let’s see what the next few months bring. If we start next season with Smalling and Jones as our no.1 CB pairing, Mata on the right wing and You g at RB, I’ll be the first to tear into the club.

But right now, in this moment - none of us know what’s going on behind the scenes.

The problem is we have been seeing posts like this for years, lets wait and see what the management structure does, when they have been shown time and again to not really have a good handle on football dealings.

Saying hey lets just wait an see again, is along the lines of repeating somthing constantly and expecting a different result.

 

[Suedesi]

That's something that has me bemused too. Although I think our results under Ole forced his hand. And it made sense to make him permanent before the inevitable downturn when a squad that is obviously not fit for purpose started dropping points/losing against the best teams around.

In a parallel universe where Ole was still caretaker, can you imagine the sense of indecision/crisis at the club right now?!

Genuinely curious, how so? Was there a chance that Real Madrid or Bayern Munchen or Barcelona was about to snap up Ole? Just stick with your plan and assess the caretaker manager at the end of the season against other available/gettable candidates.

The only valid reason I could see Woodward wanting Ole in was perhaps as an assurance to some of our incoming transfer targets that there's some sort of plan in place...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Genuinely curious, how so? Was there a chance that Real Madrid or Bayern Munchen or Barcelona was about to snap up Ole? Just stick with your plan and assess the caretaker manager at the end of the season against other available/gettable candidates.

The only valid reason I could see Woodward wanting Ole in was perhaps as an assurance to some of our incoming transfer targets that there's some sort of plan in place...

I explained it in the post. Once results against lesser teams made it clear Ole was good enough for the job it avoided any uncertainty when we inevitably dropped points against the bigger teams. If we hadn’t given the job to Ole what do you think the atmosphere would be like now? And how likely would it be for the players to - yet again - down tools under a manager they know won’t be round long.

The decision will have been made easier by the lack of any other obvious candidates. And I’m assuming Poch was sounded out but he/Levy made it clear he was staying put.

 

[Suedesi]

I explained it in the post. Once results against lesser teams made it clear Ole was good enough for the job it avoided any uncertainty when we inevitably dropped points against the bigger teams. If we hadn’t given the job to Ole what do you think the atmosphere would be like now? And how likely would it be for the players to - yet again - down tools under a manager they know won’t be round long.

Well given the results and performances since Ole's appointment, can't really say the players haven't downed tools yet again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well given the results and performances since Ole's appointment, can't really say the players haven't downed tools yet again.

I dunno. I think the current squad of players could have dropped points in all those games, even trying very hard. Especially with a few injuries/suspensions in the mix.

 

[Suedesi]

Disagree, they did have a choice, especially at the point the did when he had lost 3 games in a row and the attacking football had stopped. If after that dip he'd come back guns blazing and turned it around then yeah maybe they wound't have had a choice. Look at it this way if Ole hadn't got the job at the point he did, would you still say they had no point but to appoint Ole now? of course not.

So fact they didn't wait to see how Ole would turn that around, is why people are panicking, its further sign as structure at our club doesn't know what its doing just making more rash decisions


If we were going to hire a director of football it would of happened before appointing a manager and in time to make a plan for the summer. that has now passed. If we do it now their input in the summer transfer will be rushed.

So instead we must Trust in Ole whose only experience of big transfer is at cardiff which was a disaster, and Woodward who has been doing it for 6 years, with very mixed results.


The problem is we have been seeing posts like this for years, lets wait and see what the management structure does, when they have been shown time and again to not really have a good handle on football dealings.

Saying hey lets just wait an see again, is along the lines of repeating somthing constantly and expecting a different result.

This is a good post, and covers much of my thoughts on the matter.

Just changing managers seems to be enough for a large part of our fanbase to assume the "let's wait and see" attitude, when it's painfully clear that the management structure in place which also hires said managers is inadequate on the football side of things and has been for the last 6 years.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

There were no ‘good’ RBs available in the transfer window

There will be no board upheaval. You don’t have a clue how business works

There was no one better than young??? That’s a bold statement.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

There was no one better than young??? That’s a bold statement.

Don’t think I said that.

No team is giving up their best players in January

 

[Fluctuation0161]

4.) Ed Woodwood hasn't backed us in the transfer market
When Mourinho took over at United, we had been spending just over 210 million on the wages of our players. We've just announced we have wages of 296 million without Sanchez being here for a full year) Mourinho spent over 400 million. He recouped around 100 million. So on average every year he was here had had a 100 million net spend while increasing the wage bill by about 30 million a year. For those figures we have Fred, Dalot, Sanchez, Lukaku, Lindelof, Bailly and Pogba to show for it. Are those players worth the money? No. Now we hear rumours (nothing confirmed) that Mourinho wanted Maguire, Perisic et al. Would these have improved us? Woodwood was in the unenviable position of making more signings that wouldn't have improved us or dismissing a manager who had just finished second. Either one might have put us in a worst position than we are now.

Agree with most of your original post. Not point 4 though.

A) Its the Glazers investing too little too late. Not necessarily only Woodward in his tenure.

B) Extending Mourinhos contract combined with not backing him after we finished 2nd caused a debacle. And set us back another season of improvement. Back him or sack him.

C) Our squad is weak in comparison with the other top teams. Obviously needs serious and consistent investment.

D) Income for clubs in the Premiership has increased massively over recent years. We have the money to invest. Manchester United generate enough money for the consistent level of investment we require. We've spent more on Glazer debt (and fees) than on transfers over the last 10 years.

 

[Kapardin]

I'm cool with Ole, but I do think we really missed the boat with Poch especially when he was willing. More of a sure guarantee to take us to the top if given a good transfer budget.

 

[Christie]

What quality RB was available in January?

Don’t think I said that.

No team is giving up their best players in January

Why does the PL bother with a January window if no team is giving up their best players in January? Might as well shut it and just go with the summer.

If I'm not wrong many of our best players were bought in the January window, and many others more were bought around in the league in January.

You don't wait for teams and players to tell you they are available before you get them, you throw gobblesmacks of money at them until they become available. Was Neymar available? Was Mbappe available? We are the biggest and richest club in the world, it's time we started to act like it.

Besides we also had a summer window. It isn't news that we needed fresh blood in that area, with fans complaining about Valencia's decline last season. With all our scouts and all our money, is Dalot the best we can do? If this is the standard we have to look forward to with Ole's rebuild, it's hard to have any positivity anywhere.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Don’t think I said that.

No team is giving up their best players in January

But you did, even if you didn’t mean to. It’s not about “the best” or “world class” or whatever else. Was there ANYONE better than young that we could have got? Is there no academy grads? Dalot? Darmian? Options might be limited, but there’s options. And since we all saw the likes of young and Lingard play like shit in the previous games, it doesn’t take any kind of strength to give someone else a shot. Lingard did the exact same thing he did against West Ham, which was nothing. The op thinks there’s was no other options. Lukaku couldn’t have done any better. Greenwood couldn’t have done any better. Dalot couldn’t have done any better. Etc etc etc.

So yes, we could have bought a rb during the jan window. And there will have been better than what young offers in that position, or the left.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

But you did, even if you didn’t mean to. It’s not about “the best” or “world class” or whatever else. Was there ANYONE better than young that we could have got? Is there no academy grads? Dalot? Darmian? Options might be limited, but there’s options. And since we all saw the likes of young and Lingard play like shit in the previous games, it doesn’t take any kind of strength to give someone else a shot. Lingard did the exact same thing he did against West Ham, which was nothing. The op thinks there’s was no other options. Lukaku couldn’t have done any better. Greenwood couldn’t have done any better. Dalot couldn’t have done any better. Etc etc etc.

So yes, we could have bought a rb during the jan window. And there will have been better than what young offers in that position, or the left.

Great that you’re a mind reader.

Tell me what Ole’s thinking?!

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Great that you’re a mind reader.

Tell me what Ole’s thinking?!

I didn’t read your mind, I read your post. Perhaps you should have done the same.

 

[NoLogo]

500 million Talk about spoilt fans.

It has nothing to do with being spoilt. It's a necessity that a team like Real is very aware of and willing to commit to if you are really committed to a rebuild and the prices in the market. 200M would maybe get us Sancho, Rice and a "Fred", that's about it and in our state it's simply not enough. The problem isn't with the fans but the fact that all the big talents now cost around 100M €. If we were 5 points of City or Liverpool I would totally be fine with a 200M € investment but we are not.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

You read what you wanted to read mate.

You even said that’s what I meant even if I didn’t say it - maybe you’re the one who should read posts